To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/09/24 16:38
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Re: Ego???
From: Druout
On 2002/09/24 16:38, Druout posted thus to the K-list:
In a message dated 9/24/2002 2:22:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
joemillerATnospamhotmail.com writes:> I'm afraid that if we all make up our own meanings for words we won't be
> able to communicate any thing with any degree of precision. We won't be
> able
> to exchange ideas because we won't have a freaking clue what each other is
> talking about.
Dear Joe,
I sympathize with your desire for clarity, but E-mail is by nature pretty
informal. You make interesting distinctions/clarifications, but you often
tend to react as though you have been personally wronged! LOL!
>
> No where does, in this or any system's initiation ritual, East or West, the
>
> initiate give up his/her ego. It is the identity, or an element of what
> they
> were in their life before that is changed, not the fact they have a concept
>
> of themselves. In many initiations it is said to bring the initiate "from
> darkness to light" meaning it is the first step on a path of learning, not
> denying who you are.
> As to thinking of himself as an "I" or "Thomas Merton," he had a number of
> books copywritten under that name so I guess he thought that was who he
> was.
> He did not loose his ego,
I wouldn't dare suggest that anyone going through initiations miraculously
become enlightened! :)) But I would suggest that symbolically it is likely
that this is what is implicit in the ritual.
>
>
> I gave the meaning of the ritual in terms of what it is to do vs erasing
> ones ego (defined to be insanity in the rest of the known universe).Well, that is another subject entirely :))
>
>
> > >Enlightend beings have egos, all of them, every last
> > >one. They TRANSCEND the ego, they don't kill it. The idea >of killing an
>
> >ego is some kind of "New Age" ....stuff... >that has no basis in any
> >ancient system I'm aware of.
> >
> >You seem to want it both ways. You say "killing" the ego has no basis in
> >any ancient system, but you accept "transcending" the ego as correct, even
>
> >though the term ego is a relatively modern one.
>
> Hillary I think you are grabbing at things to argue about. I've known you
> too long and found you too bright to believe you'd have written that under
> normal conditions.
>
<snipped passage below>
>"Having it both ways" makes no sense in your statement whatsoever.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should have put the two entire phrases in
quotes: "transcending the *ego*" and "killing the *ego*". Am I picking a
fight? I don't know LOL! But I'll give you the last word if you like and
then take this discussion off list! :))
Love, Hillary
> The word "transcend" is an English word, out of Latin via Old French, yada
> yada. The concept is not new at all. The concept was around in ancient
> Vedic
> writings... as a concept (they didn't know Latin so they didn't use that
> word).
>
> To go beyond ego is NOT to kill it. That was the point of the discussion.
> Both "kill" and "transcend" are valid words for actions, concepts, whatever
>
> you want to call it, that have been around for thousands and thousands of
> years. They are not equal, nor are they the same. Never have been the same
> thing.
>
> Ego is a modern term. But that concept didn't get born in Switzerland or
> Germany or Austria or any of the other places that the early psychologists
> worked. There was a concept of self way before them. There were ways to
> discuss it. To talk to someone about those things that make up the ego it
> would seem to make more sense to use it than to use a bunch of Sanskrit
> words (or Chinese or whatever). Kundalini is an energy form that the West
> never discussed so there was no word for it when the texts were translated,
>
> hence our use of it. But ego was there, so it was used. I don't see the
> problem.
>
> "Having it both ways" makes no sense in your statement whatsoever.
>
> Namaste,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
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