To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/06/29 22:07
Subject: Re: [K-list] Potty Training - to Marsha ..
From: marsha marsha
On 2002/06/29 22:07, marsha marsha posted thus to the K-list:
>From: Christopher Wynter
>
>At 28/06/02, you wrote:
> >>Religions were created to control the people so that they would
> >>not be able to find their personal integrity - or express their
> >>experience without the sanction of some religious authority.
> >>***
It is you saying YOU know best and everyone else is wrong that I find irks
me.
******
>Then, I respectfully suggest that you take the time to do an in depth study
>of the history of Comparative Religions, ....
I lived in an ongoing, continually exploding, and intellectually
stimulating/personally disempowering 'Holy War/philosophical debate' for 18
years, until I was legally old enough to move out of my parents house.(they
didn't have the same faith) Been there and heard waaaaaaaay too much of
that. Also took philosophy, old testement, world religions, ect in college.
More of the same.
******
>but, I will challenge any dogmatic or doctrinal statement
>with "something_written_in_the_moment" ..
So will I.
*****
>You see .. its not about replacing one belief structure with another,
>but about dismantling all belief structures. Only then will what you
>express be the spontaneous expression of you in the moment based
>on your "lived_experience" ..
Believing in nothing is still believing. Perhaps what you are getting at is
acting from the heart, thinking from the heart, feeling with the heart...?
Without consulting your conscious ego or mind?
*****
>rather than the words of some other authority which you have taken
>on as a "proxy_for_what_you_think_is_your_existence"
And that is what I am doing, not taking on the words of some authority who
wants to tell me his way is the only way.
*****
>As I wrote once or twice before ..
>
> "People only need something to believe in
> because they cannot believe in themselves
There you go again saying don't believe in this... only believe in what I
tell you is Ok.
*****
>Belief is a hypothesis for a mental masterbation ..
>
>and from this, there are two types of Kundalini ..
>a mental coming...
Hey, now, do not be knocking masturbation, mental masturbation specifically
being a particular fav of mine. (Apologies to those offended, grin to those
who aren't.)
*****
>for the simple reason, your mind will never be the same again.
We can agree totally on this point.
*****
>The rising of the "essence of the Pot" (the Kunda")
>will destroy any concept of who you think you are ..
>and your every experience will be what is released
>from the cells of your body ..
But wait, you said earlier that I would express from my "lived_experiences",
if I release them, how will I express from moment to moment who I am because
of them? Don't you mean the experienced emotion is to be released?
*****
>And each person's experience will be unique
Yes it will...be they Buddist, Muslim, Baptist, Agnostic...
*****
>and all of the ideas of what anyone ever told them
>Kundalini will be like ..
...including you, you say?
*****
>Yup .. you can fake it for a while ..
oh, no, never fake it, faking it is bad, bad....
*****
>is that there has been an absolute awe and humility at what
>they have learned .. and experienced ..
Yeah, uhuh...
*****
>and you won't find many choosing to take the path of writing
>about it ..
But many of those whom have chosen to write about it found this list,...you,
me...As is evidenced by my crossed eyes and tired fingers.
*****
In conclusion, as somebody said, (Shiva??) that this is about PERSONAL,
INDIVIDUAL experience and you don't get to tell me about MY personal
experience. If you share YOUR personal experience, I will listen and
perhaps learn something from you. I just can't bear to see someone tell me
this is HOW IT IS --and that they know the motivations of ALL others and
those motivations were all negative.
And...to any others who were discussing this topic, I am in no way saying
religions haven't had/do contain negatives and control freaks, ect. And
certainly the enlightened individuals after whom many religions were based
would in many cases be shocked and disgusted. But some of them might find
things to be pleased with as well. I am saying that to assume anyone knows
the motivations of all the religious leaders who ever lived is the pinnacle
of arrogance and ego.
BTW, potty training usually involves S#$t in case you didn't know.(at least
20 teeth showing in this grin)
Love Marsha
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