To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/11/08 12:06
Subject: [K-list] DXM and misc. observations/remarks
From: Joshua Sutterfield
On 2001/11/08 12:06, Joshua Sutterfield posted thus to the K-list:
I was going to post something (not my full spiel on DXM, that later
probably) on DXM, a chemical I've found very spiritually valuable, at the
end of this message.. if you think mindbending chemicals are inherently
in conflict with spiritual stuff, it may be interesting, however I can
see where you're coming from so you needn't bash me too hard or anything.
But some short comments on various recent posts.
Cleocatra, this monkey talk, nifty. I think not only might people be
addressing our monkeys, but it may be THEIR monkeys addressing our
monkeys. It is a good thing to imagine if people get too intense -- it's
just barking monkeys, like imagine us schlubbing around with these monkeys
controlling us, ourselves quite silent, just being like vehicles for the
monkey, shrugging at others, all of us quite baffled, unable to talk over
the shrieking monkeyvoices. And the rest of what you said, too, indeed..
just look with God's eyes, no agenda.. a few times recently, for just a
few seconds at a time, I've suddenly felt that. Like God was there all
along and for ONCE I let him/her/it look out. I didn't do anything, I was
just being still. And bammo.. it felt like it was a presence long stuck
inside, held hostage even, even though he was the real me. I can
obviously still act out his desire, but it is rare I am actually within
it, centered in it. It was a very simple feeling, it was simpler than my
normal consciousness, it was not bliss or anything, I was just looking at
my knees (the main time) and knowing my presence in this particular body
as one presence I own, yet I was no less familiar with it, it was less
complicated.
About the use of the term Goddess.. I'm glad I waited to post about it. I
had seen it first in posts as a sort of spiteful substitute for God, with
the pre-supposition that God is inherently a male term. Or I saw the use
of Goddess as a specific modification of a gender-neutral base. I guess
it's still worth commenting on. God itself as a concept, we should all
be able to recognize, like "love" or "truth" are signifiers who have very
simple but undefined bases, which we all agree on. Maybe not love, that
one varies. But truth and God in particular unify to the same base
concept of "that which is". I think people who disagree with this base
have actually modified it from their initial question.
Anyways, yeah, standard Christian ideas of God are that it is male, but
before that was determined, they were saying "what is the cause and
creator of all this.. what is the 'ultimate being'". God is sort of a
variable. Indeed, even the values and modifications we make to that
variable, in terms of the word, even this is a stand-in for Self.
Because self is where we truly testify to what God is. Mostly our
opinions on what God is reflect where we are. If we are cornered into
believing god is a fearmonger, we swallow fear ourselves and become
budding fearmongers in the image of God. If I were to ascribe a gender
to God, one idea resonant with me is to ascribe to God your OWN gender.
Thus if i am a girl I speak of Goddess, and if a guy, i speak of.. well,
I dont know.. GODDOR. Again, God, most of us can recognize if we break
it down.. like if a kid asked a responsible adult (one who wasn't set on
inducting the kid into their religion), the adult would have to say
"well, lilkid, God is just this being, maybe like you or me, maybe not,
but bigger, and whatever God is, it explains everything, it caused
everything in the universe, everything that ever happens."
So where are them mens saying GODDOR. Get with it.
ANYWAYS, so after some more observing I recognized that Goddess was
specifically an aspect of the "All That Is", referred to the qualities
of God which commonly manifest through women. The recent posts about
sexuality came from people who used the term, yet acknowledged it was
androgynous. Certainly separation is not to be avoided at all costs..
separation is the way to experience our unity, separation of types,
aspects, categories.. separation is the very key to language, thus we
communicate and express, etc.
Comments about ENERGY: I am sure many of you know more about this
"remote energy" than I do, but we sort of take a perspective of how
"strange" or unobservable it must be to people not yet on the path to
awakening. One thing to consider is the idea that we are ALL on the
path, that God is not making any mistakes. <...Speaking of which,
Conversations With God is a great book to read for ideas about God which
seem too good to be true, or so good they MUST be true...>
But what I am trying to say is.. maybe we can allow fact and fiction to
merge, or .. imagination and.. absolute reality. Because they DO (I have
some of my own qualms about this which I will address in a second). But
this energy does not necessarily manifest only etherically, "magically".
It is DEEPLY encoded in very real ways, without any other mystical
plane. I am not denying the reality of "mystical planes" but.. mystical
is very close to conceptual, it sort of subsumes our reality, just as our
minds contain the world, just as god contains male and female. I guess I
think of the "conceptual world" as very intimately connected with the
spiritual world. As we say "his spirit will live on" about a dead one,
we may mean in our hearts and minds.. but is this "less real?" Would it
be realer if it were material with some system of mechanics, rules of
operation? Our realest things are our experience of realthings, so
experience, awareness, is all that is real.
Argh, I think I'm being unclear. Anyways, undoubtedly many of you know
all kinds of peculiar energies that can't be easily attributed to the
words you transmit, or the looks on your face, or the motions of your
body, but make no mistake a LOT of stuff transmits itself this way. SO
much "energy" without any sort of more-magical manifestation, can move
through language.. I think our language-minds can encode very subtle
things (essentially it DOES work on different planes) into language,
secrets we all can send and interpret, yet not be aware we interpreted,
and if we ever "feel" it, we are SURE that it wasn't in the words. Or
the facial expressions.
Facial expressions seem key to me to, like I think if you're tuned into
energy as a "concept", even just treating it as a "useful fiction", a
model by which to operate, unconcerned for its realrealness, only
concerned for its usefulness to you as a means of experiencing yourself
and others... you can really SCREW with people, do things to them that
seem psychically fueled (indeed who is to say they aren't). I think you
can work on a very intuitive level, tiny step by tiny step, tuning each
motion of your face into a deeper interaction, using the feedback of
motions from their face. Feedback is key, and it becomes very complex
when the brain itself unconsciously operates within a very tight quick
feedback loop, and is in touch enough with the idea that "you am i", and
essentially "translates" from self to self. I'm sortof trying to be very
quick becaus eI get wordy, as a result this sounds obscure maybe. This
is only a concept.. yet I have certainly had lots of weird experiences,
I'm a quite a strange one though when it comes to eye contact at parties
with some people. The drugs dont help, I seem to start manifesting my
fears, seem to start manifesting theirs.. I fall into their fears like
water, I become for them what I worry I might become for them, and I
wonder if I'm doing that mostly because of what's in me, or because of
something they initiate, some distrust of me.
Anyways, basic point.. BIG vibes are possible through completely
physiological and psycholinguistic means, through unconsciously
encoded/decoded signals which we have evolved through culture and
individual interactions. This in particular is how newsmedia fucks our
brain, but that's another topic.
Anyways.. but I am also having some trouble with my own principle of
things not mattering whether they are realrealreal. Like I say, what is
key is to function on models that are useful.. if I cannot find a reason
to believe in past lives (all other lives are past lives, or future
lives, past and future being meaningless -- just my personal model), well
so what, I can still THINK about past lives, I have referred to them, it
was significant in a metaphorical way. And that is essentially no less
real, to me. I can think of myself as being a pirate if I want, and it
expresses something ABOUT me. That is all it would do even if it were
really really real. That is part of why I believe everyone is an
incarnation of everyone else.. or maybe I have cause/effect reversed
here, or maybe each causes the other, but basically.. EVERYONE expresses
something about me.. everything is an aspect of my being, whether I know
it or not. But indeed, to decide or realize I have exactly 11 past
lives, which were this and that (like my friend has), well that's great
for what it tells you about you, but do I have to cling to its
factuality? No.. it would be a weakness then..
A key point of mail for those who think I blabber on (particularly those
thoroughly in touch with "remote" energies):
Likewise I find myself really wanting to confirm some of my own
suspicions about the more outwardly magical aspects of energy. Most of
what I experience is miraculous, is far beyond normal experience, changes
me greatly, makes me believe in something far greater than me, yet still
me. But also I experience things that hint at the concepts I've learned
to be "thrilled" about, such as outofbodythings, reading minds,
connecting with people from afar.
That last one in particular, several of you have talked about, and my mind
clings to it. I want to verify it. In one way, it is a weakness to be
concerned with it, because I know that each truth will be revealed to me
in time.. I know that I move at my own rate, understanding these more
private, less "outrageous" miracles.. but they are BECOMING more
outrageous, relative to the casual observer. Suddenly I am experirencing
without a second thought, without a great deal of marvel (but still with
great joy and pleasure) things QUITE strange.. things I once would've said
"huh.. weird... sppooooky,.... mystical" about. And such is the way.. if
I ever can fly, it'll be natural, I imagine I'll do it without being
particularly amazed that it is possible. Because it is faith-based, like
every step in this process. It is simply knowing. I'd still enjoy flight
obviously.
Also, about this attachment to the more "fantabulous" manifestations of
energy you folk speak of -- I am reminded of something from a Deepak
Chopra book about how in India there are basically a lot of "junkies" who
wander around to the various spiritual masters there, getting "high" more
or less, off the energy they feel from these people, by being touched by
them, or just by being in their presence. Just to imagine that is so far
from my experience, yet it seems very verifiable.. also when I hear of
those spontaneous Qi orgasms being filmed on Real Sex.. when I think of
things I could easily submit myself to.. to think that I could actually
be somehow affected by another person's presence, WITHOUT language or
looks or fragrance or anything non-etheric.. well I feel like that would
kind of anchor me toa new reality.
Like I think.. gee I'd like one such person to just give me "proof". I
slowly develop my own proof, but at the same time, I do it by concocting
millions of theories, hairbrained thrilling ideas. Once while thoroughly
drugged I thought I could hear electricity. I am stil not sure what to
make of it, but I went overboard, I got all freaked-out-in-a-good-way
because I could hear this really neat buzzing from my fridge. Lo and
behold the next day I still heard it.. i am pretty sure it had always been
there, I was imagining it was in the WIRES.. in the actual electricity.
But other things turned out to be true, like my revelations about the
appearance of the trinity in all things, everywhere an expression of two
halves of the tao, and their unity (father son and holy ghost, man woman
child, electricity magnetism light, mind body spirit, on and on and on).
Also, other internal miracles.. I am gradually developing my own yoga
practice, instinctively, it is baffling, I find myself falling into
positions that are very new, that I never would imagine myself to have
fallen into, yet I see their benefits and see that they mean something.
Also I feel the presence of a trainer sometimes telling me things.
Mostly I'm on drugs during this though.
More about them drugs in a second but ANYWAYS.. so I think, if I could
just be connected to or touched in some "scientifically verifiable" way
that I cannot chalk up to imagination, that I cannot reject.. then it
would kind of anchor me, or anchor my faith. Faith comes without such
things, but I mean that my faith would have a new ground or starting
point, for higher reaching. For instance I am reaching toward generating
the full range of audible sounds by using either my ear or chest as a
speaker.. I imagine being able to produce the full range of audible music,
using only my imagination. I think I've felt it as actual vibrations.. bu
they are not loud enough to hear, except sometimes when I hold my ear to
my pillow. When I try to "scientifically verify" by putting a microphone
up to it, I simply can't "perform" cause I'm too excited about the chance
to have it undoubtably proven to myself.
But what can I do.. I am sure sooner or later I will have some sort of
experience like this.. whether its about the particular phenomenon I WANT
it to be about or not.. gradually I will see more and more of this. I
cant attach myself to the specifics of your experiences.. yet at the same
time, just joining this list, I experienced K by myself without drugs
(well, maybe once before but never as dramatic). I was listening to
philip glass and had just subscribed that day to the K list. Yall check
out philip glass and also steve reich and terry riley for lots of music
that will hit your spirit on a level beyond musical culture. One song
from Terry Riley has in particular.. made love to me, and changed me in
all kinds of ways I can't describe.
ANYWAYS
but darnit if anyone ever feels inclined to give me some sort of remotely
detectable awareness of the reality of "remote energies" and things like
that, by all means, feel free, I am quite open to the possibility, as I
am open to the possibility of it being conceptual or metaphoric. Yet the
reality of them seems more likely since so many know this experience, and
since I myself have had so many "hints" I cant quite explain.
As for this chemical I spoke of.. god this mmessage is long huh. It's
called DXM (dextromethorphan hydrobromide), and (*gasp*) it's in cough
syrup. Yep, that one. People are pretty skeptical about it, even if they
dig various drugs. If anyone is familiar with it I am curious to hear
about your knowledge of it / experiences with it. Of course we'll have
to keep it relatively pertinent to "spiritual energies" but it's VERY
pertinent to that in my mind.
DXM has basically functioned like "training wheels" in the spiritual
realm, opening me up to all kinds of new clarity in the area. I imagine
some of you may reject most drugs on principle, maybe calling it a
shortcut, or just too dangerous. I see no merit or dismerit in something
being a shortcut.. if it gets you somewhere before you're ready, then
you're not really entirely THERE.. because there includes "readiness"..
so the word is not shortcut but HARMFUL. Or difficult.. certainly there
is a balance -- many of you should not do DXM, or should approach it very
slowly.. because there is a level which is too far. I currently
recognize a dosage beyond which I am not able to fully appreciate. It
does not necessarily "damage" me, but I simply cannot make any use of it,
and I run the risk of being damaged, by getting in a fearful mode, by
forgetting my connection to God.
So I am certainly staring the risk right in the face.. not only spiritual
but also just factual body risk, I have struggled with this and am coming
to a balance.. DXM itself helped me learn its own balance, helped me not
to "depend" on my training wheels. It is funny, I often consider how
youthful patterns affect my entire life. How exactly did my bike-riding
go.. I did stick with training wheels quite a while. I suppose at some
point probably, I took them off, realizing I was REALLY GOOD at
bikeriding with no training wheels. Because earlier in my life, age 2,
my father refused to let me sit in his lap and read to me.. he said I
could read. Bullshit, I thought.. he damned me to my room, with my
"three little kittens" book, and I cried. I glanced at the book and
realized I COULD READ EVERY DAMN WORD. I think my father gave me a
tremendous gift, I learned to read without knowing it, I just followed
his voice, perhaps imagining his voice was equivalent to the words, which
I followed too..
the result in my life seems to be that I am a "natural" at many things,
that I learn instinctively unconsciously, and suddenly just "know".
DXM is the way I have started developing my own system of yoga (system is
perhaps too big a word for it, just a "vocabulary"). It comes in sudden
instinctive steps, suddenly I sit this way or that, suddenly I move my
hands this way or that, and know it is spiritually significant to me.
Lots of peculiar things happen. I think cats sense something in me..
other animals seem peculiarly affected.. once a damn housefly did very
weird things around me. Ah, that is sidebabble, but anyways.. DXM has
been very valuable. It is supposed to be a rough trip, a trip that many
people do not dig.. but I think this is resistance.. I think this is
"death" actually. With DXM I ended up having to face my death head on, I
faced a deep sadness for all the world, I felt unified with Christ and the
concept of crucifixion, I felt an indescribable terror, which somehow I
was not afraid of, because I chose not to be. It was SO terrifying it was
fascinating to me, and I have always been drawn to understand that which I
fear.. it seems so full of meaning and meat to me.
Lately I just sit and meditate. Other hallucinogens are bad for this but
DXM is wonderful.. it affects you in a very simple way, yet is complex as
you make it. It rarely provides visuals (for me) and only produces sound
because that is my nature.. it is all by will. DXM itself seems to
provide a purity and peace to me, a total contentment with existing. In
fact on DXM I feel basically like I am letting God's eyes look out, and
this feeling I've had sober stemmed from DXM understandings. By the way I
dont really chug cough syrup anymore.. it kinda sucks.. I bought some
powder. Anyways.. so meditating, I've gone to some very interesting
places, I have experienced my rebirth, which triggered, a day later, a
tremendously long vivid dream about something traumatic from early
childhood. Not traumatic for me but for my MOM who THOUGHT she harmed me.
I just want her to accept it, but she refuses to talk about that time (it
was a bipolar freakout she had, the dream suggests she "abused" me when I
was a baby).
Also I have had experiences of synchronicity with my girlfriend.. some are
things we both could have easily suggested subconsciously through physical
means or speaking.. however other times I have been able to sense her
emotions so well I predict her actions (still can just be that I know her
so well) and other times we had simultaneous visions/awarenesses which I
have no explanation for.
One thing in particular that seems relevant to the idea of "connecting
remotely" is that shortly after my greatest moment yet on dxm just about,
where I felt one with everything, felt certain everyone must've known I
had ascended to everywhere.. felt perfect peace and joy.. shortly after
that I wrote down some names.. I write spontaneously a lot on the drug, I
wrote down Keith and Rachel.. but see, I imagined they weren't imagined,
but real people who had contacted me.. I figured they would surely phone
me the next day and concretize something "magical" for me. Earlier I had
stared extensively at a poster of artwork from Alex Grey (Oh dear, all
you people check out his artbook, you will be amazed) while listening to
Squarepusher, and felt absolutely certain Alex Grey (quite the mystic)
would contact me by phone within a few minutes.. or else the guy
from Squarepusher would say something very peculiar to me when I saw him
live in a week (but he cancelled due to illness). This all points to my
obsession with verifying. But it comes instinctively, it comes from a
realm which I cannot distinguish from my real experiences.. I cook up all
kinds of ideas, and half of them turn out to persist, and stand to be
verified by others.
I guess several times actually I have felt contact with entities I
believed to be human.. I only wish someone would somehow let me know
afterwards that they know I contacted them. For all I know I am actually
on the same level as Keith and Rachel, maybe they too are baffled people
wondering "Who is this Josh? Is he real?"
Maybe to them I come off as someone supreme and loving.. when I am in
that place, indeed I can be nothing less.. I am uniting on a close level
with god.. and all I can feel is love, and an eagerness to experience
love. Maybe they are sure I must be some kind of guru who knows exactly
what he's doing. also, I mean, this yoga I learn.. sometimes I feel an
Indian fellow instructing me.. it's exactly the kind of thing I would
concoct, yet perhaps there is a real fellow out there working with me..
maybe he doesnt even know it, maybe I'm exploring his knowledge and
delivering it to myself using his nature. Or maybe it's 100% "useful
fiction", and do I really care, I guess not except I would like the
anchors, the concretization, so I can quit thinking about it, and leave
my "questioning" to higher issues, recognizing I am already "beyond"
these initial steps.
Anyways like I say.. I welcome any of you to prove something to me, yet
that is ridiculous, seems like a tempting or a challenging, which is not
what I want, as it would draw some sort of ego-ridden somehow-mystical
being, who would visit some sort of impure will on me. Then again how
does a person like that get into such a place, maybe they dont. I welcome
you or ask you, but not challenge. Still, I know at this point I "rely"
on DXM, whereas I'm sure many of you dont have to. But I usually do it in
the evenings on the weekend.. I'll try to say hello to you all at least.
Course I feel dorky saying that.
ANYWAYS if anyone is interested in DXM feel free to ask me about it, or
check out this awesome faq with info on proper amounts, neurotransmitter
effects, positive and negative experiences, risks, etc etc, very extensive
and helpful: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_faq.shtml And by
all means, definitely don't go out and drink any ole cough syrup, lots of
other drugs in there usually, they can cause very bad things to happen.
So can DXM by itself. I'm lucky I took it slow and found the heart of the
experience.
Bettergo.
lovemeloveyou
josh
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
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