To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/02/11 21:24
Subject: [K-list] your opinion on healing
From: Vickie Novak
On 2001/02/11 21:24, Vickie Novak posted thus to the K-list:
I messed up and sent the messages just to you too Angelique. :(
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> At 10:14 AM 2/11/01, Vickie Novak wrote:
>
> >I would like to make another statement on the below. Now that my
mouth is
> >started.
> >:)
>
> That's funny.. I woke up realizing exactly how pissed off I am,
by
> Natives blame and victimhood attitudes. Frustrated, because it does
not get
> anywhere.
I appreciate your anger. I do not want to carry an attitude of
victimhood. I
think that's why I wrote to you to begin with. I want to move through
and past
this. This is where I have been lately and I don't want to be there any
more.
> The funny-ironic-sad thing is that when whites try to help, we
are
> seen as interfering, and when we leave the natives to handle their own
> problems we are seen as unsympathetic. It's a no-winner. If I seem
cranky,
> it is because I am speaking from my own frustration. The change has to
come
> from within the communities, and too often it seems they are too
fixated on
> blame and internal conflicts to get anywhere.
> I offer a quote from a Canadian study done on aboriginal
substance abuse:
>
> From: http://www.ccsa.ca/mckenzie.htm#social
> >The point was made that Native communities differ greatly in
Aboriginal
> >language and culture as well as in current setting, population and
> >socio-economic development. Nevertheless, the complex of social
problems,
> >including alcohol and drug abuse, is at least very widely, if not
> >universally, shared. The ultimate causes must be, therefore, what all
> >these communities share: a history of loss or threatened loss of
culture
> >and devaluation of cultural identity by the larger society;
contemporary
> >social, economic and cultural marginalization.
> >
> >Whatever the ultimate causes, the solutions must come from the
communities
> >directly affected. The larger society can provide resources.
Governments
> >have an obligation to provide the economic, legal and political
assistance
> >that is necessary to strengthen the Native communities and help them
solve
> >the problems of marginalization that are the context for substance
abuse
> >and its consequences for the family. The scientific and medical
> >communities can provide information on what is known about substance
> >abuse, on research that might assist the search for solutions to the
> >problem as it exists in Aboriginal communities, and provide access to
and
> >training in programs that have been effective in other contexts.
However,
> >only the communities themselves can define the nature of their
particular
> >problems and judge the relevance of programs and general scientific
> >knowledge. Perhaps the most constructive contribution outside experts
can
> >provide is a sympathetic but critical questioning of the Native
> >communities' efforts to define and address substance abuse problems.
>
> So, that is what you are getting.. a sympathetic but critical
> questioning.
>
> Contrary to how my "Devil's advocate" comments may appear, I have
a lot
> of sympathy for the plight of aboriginals worldwide, and have invested
> considerable attention to healing on an energetic level... because
healing
> on an individual level is not wanted.. usually.
I appreciate your devil's advocate roll. I want to look at this from a
different
place and I want healing on an individual level. I will be thinking
about all the
information you have given. There's allot
> The living aboriginals don't want interference, but I was
requested to
> assist, by an international council of ascended aboriginal Shamans.
If
> you like, I will tell you the story, and the conclusions I came to, as
a
> Shaman, about why it is that the Natives are having a much more
difficult
> time adapting, than other oppressed cultures in history.
> I won't tell you unless you ask, because last time I related the
story
> on the list I was raked over the coals by a part-native person who
> preferred to hold onto his victimhood and attitudes of injustice, and
his
> prejudice against white people, rather than consider what I had to
say.
> Same old same old.
I'm asking you to tell this story. I won't rake you over the coals. I
don't want to
hold on to victimhood attitudes of injustice and prejudice against any
people.
> > > > How far do you want to go back in this healing? How wide do
you want
> > > > to make it? Before the Christian invasion of North America,
there was the
> > > > Roman invasion of Europe, the Mongol invasion of China, the
Aryans
> > invaded
> > > > India, ... the list goes on and on. Farther back than we can
know. Plato
> > > > says the Atlanteans tried to invade Greece.. The old testament
is filled
> > > > with stories of the territorial struggles of the early
Hebrews...do you
> > > > think they feel guilty about the conquest of Jherico? About the
> > slaying of
> > > > the eldest sons of Egypt?
> > > > Do you think the Romans felt guilt over conquering Europe?
The
> > > > Mongols? The Aryans? The British felt guilty about empire
building in
> > Asia
> > > > and Africa?
> > > > Christian guilt is a modern idea, of a modern ego...
> > >
> > > In my opinion an acknowledgment of what has been done is all that
is
> > needed.
> >
> >The -acknowledgment- makes the connection for healing to begin at the
> >energetic level and that is what I mean in this situation in that ,
it is
> >all that is needed for healing to begin.
>
> I don't get it.. The acknowledgement is obvious. Everybody knows
what
> happened to the Natives of North America, it is common knowledge. It
is
> widely expressed in politics, media, music, art, theatre and film.
From
> "Little Big Man" to "Dances with Wolves", to media coverage of Native
> protests, to aboriginal musicians, to Chief Seattle and Grey Owl (Both
of
> whom were white guys, BTW..) Opening ceremonies of last summer
Olympics,
> "I Buried My Heart at Wounded Knee", the songs of Susan Uglukark....
>
> What is it exactly that you are asking for? What more do you need,
to
> begin healing.. or is your argument simply an excuse to postpone
action? I
> am not criticising you, I just don't get it.. If you want to look at
the
> cup half full, you will find plenty of acknowledgement.. if you want
to
> insist on the cup half empty then any acknowledgment will never be
enough
> to get past the determined victimhood attitudes. We cannot undo what
has
> been done, it is time to move forward.
Yes I want to move forward. I don't always get it either. That's why I
asked for
input.
> Richard Bach said it: "If your happiness depends on what someone
else
> does, then you do have a problem". Time for the blame to stop.
> I will acknowledge: Yes, Vickie, the North American Native
peoples got
> the shit kicked out of them by European conquest. They have not
recovered
> from it. The descendents of those Europeans would like to help fix the
> situation, but natives are understandably wary of such "help".
> I'm sure every person on this list would gladly add their
signatures to
> this statement.. because it is a widely known fact. So if 550 list
members
> give you acknowledgement, will it be enough?
>
> Our Country? I am Canadian.. we have honored the treaties, and
are
> involved in spending billions on reparation and rights. The greater
part of
> the Northwest Territories has been given over to native self
government:
> http://privat.schlund.de/H/Hammond/enunavut.htm
> Treaty re-negotiations, monetary and land grants are happening all
over
> Canada, millions of acres and billions of $$, to the point where
native
> reparations are threatening the economy and it may be that everyone
will
> lose. Lose/lose game.
> http://www.aaf.gov.bc.ca/news-releases/index.stm
>
> >I look at countries and their growth in a similar way
> >to how I look at individual growth. Maybe this isn't the 'right' way
to do
> >it but
> >until I find a better way to look at it, this is how I do it. Can we
have
> >kundalini arousal at the levels of countries?
>
> It is happening on a planetary scale. Mass consciousness shift.
> But, truly, change the world by changing inside of yourself. The
> outside reflects the inside. I truly think that if you want to do this
> healing, you have to begin, within.. see perfection in what you call
> injustice. You are half native, you can work from within the system,
to
> heal the system.. you can go where my white face is not wanted.. that
is
> what is needed.. But you have to take the stone from your own eye,
first.
I want to change what is inside myself. Do you think I came to you
because you
would agree with everything I say and think. Ha! That's funny! I've
watched this
group long enough to see that what you say is always from a place of
compassion and
from your truth. You kick people out of their stuck places. :))
I have been feeling the energy move through me all day today and even as
I have
been replying to you. I am tired for the first time in days and the pain
that has
sat in my back for the last month is gone. I don't know that I have
this all
worked out but I will be looking back over our discussions and learning
what I can
from them. I am grateful to you for caring enough to reply. I will
probably be
continuing to stick my neck out there to refine and clarify. Now I am
tired and
want to sleep.
> >Thank you for the opportunity to vent. Vickie
> I really hope it helps.. Blessings..
It has. :)) There is much to look at. Thank you. With Love, Vickie
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