Recieved: 2000/07/05 11:51
Subject: Re: [K-list] Moving Out
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2000/07/05 11:51, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 07:33 PM 7/4/00 -0400, ckressATnospamaol.com wrote:
>Woowee, K-list is blazin' hot today! Synchronistic fireworks for the 4th of
>July, the US celebration of Independence Day.
>Angelique, you seem exceptionally luminous and serene after your trip. Glad
>you made it back to us. I love you. I didn't always; had to wrestle my way
>to you. Long time back, you were what is revered by warriors as "a worthy
>opponent." You met me at my own level; few people can. We taught each
>some good moves; both got thrown a few times; both got right back up; bowed
>to each other: Namaste'. There are warriors with heart and fighters who
>thrill at the spilling of blood. You are the former: Warrior Queen of
>Hearts. How could I not love you, kindred sister?
I love you too, beautiful sister. I know you had a hard time with me,
at first.. but your gentleness has always been beautiful to me.
I have found it interesting, these last few months, how you have
switched polarities. Used to be, you were always the one wanting everyone
to be sweet and nice to each other.. decrying the flame wars on behalf of
the hypersensitive souls who cannot handle the energy.
Lately you have been the one to mix it up in the corners, and it has
been refreshing to see.
>Those who haven't been around here as long as I have may not know that I've
>been on the K-list since it's inception. The original K-list, which this
>list evolved from, started when a member of Shared Transformation "Friends
>Online" (Richard Satin) decided to create a K-support mail list.
Yes, you are the K-list's Faerie Godmother... Grandmother, Matriarch..
I am immensely grateful for the legacy you have left for me to nurture. As
much energy and time as I have put into the K-list, I have always felt that
it gives me back more. More joy, more beauty, more insights, more bliss..
>Shared Transformation was a K-support networking and info site my husband
>I put together in '95, in conjunction with Bill Peay's Kundalini Research
>Center (KRC). Back then, our site and Bill's site were the first
>peer-support K resources on the Internet. Our Shared Transformation site
>an extension of Shared Transformation newsletters, which we began publishing
>in '93. At that time, to our knowledge, we and an organization in Denmark
>were the only two in the world which were publishing K personal experience
>stories and ecumenical, multi-tradition K info.
You are one of the true Pioneers of the Western Kundalini phenomena.
Few people know that about you. Now, it seems that gradually you are
retiring from that activism, and truly you have earned it. Your influence
on this entire social subgroup of awakened folks has been tremendous, and
you have always been an inspiration to me. From back when I first came
online, and came across the "Signs and Symptoms list".. it changed my
perspective of my entire life.
It makes me think of the early feminists, and the brilliant blazing
torch they passed on the succeeding generations. My career as a Kundalini
activist has just begun, by comparison, and it would not Be, if not for
your efforts in creating the legacy which I, among so many, are hiers to.
It saddens me tho, to see you departing the field. Those of us who are
just starting out, still need you. We need your wisdom and insights. Your
>It was the part of me that champions the underdog and defies the status quo
>that impelled me to start publishing Shared Transformation. The earliest
>personal experience K stories were all my own. I didn't know if we would
>reach anyone else experiencing K (with our teensy budget, all we could
>were small classified ads in the back of Spiritual and Holistic
>publications). And even if we did, I wondered if my personal K experiences
>were so weird that our readers would think I was crazy. Then the number of
>subscribers started to climb, and letters expressing gratitude started
>pouring in. I still receive letters of thanks; we have hundreds of them.
They make a bed of laurels, for you to take a rest on. You have earned
>Although we no longer publish Shared Transformation newsletters, we still
>receive orders for the back issues and I get emails from people who have
>discovered our site. They tell me their K stories, full of joy and
>excitement to have found someone who understands. I often recommend that
>they join this list (or the SacredKundalini list) and some of them do.
Thankyou for your ongoing goodwill.. :)
>We all have unique combinations of abilities, gifts, talents and
>contributions we make to the whole. I've been an underdog on many levels,
>many ways, throughout my life. This is partly why I'm so sensitive to
>being denied a place at the table just because they don't belong to the
I know how you feel. My whole life has been a series of experiences of
rejection, I just didn't seem to fit in anywhere.. it is only recently that
I have come to understand that those rejections were part of the workings
of the K. itself. A result of the Shakti-field, and the perceptions
Awakening gave me that made me so inexplicably different from my peers. My
saga with the US Border guards back in 1996 brought all of those feelings
up to be released, and at long last I am at peace with it.
Working on this Tantra course, I made a page of "Thanks and credits",
and the final thanks goes to all the people, through the course of my life
who rejected me, and kept me moving till I found a place, where I belong.
If not for them, I'd still be struggling trying to whittle my square
peggedness down to fit in their round pigeonholes.
If not for them, I would not have had the courage to be a Pro-Dom and
BDSM activist.. a professional misfit.. but as it was, I had nothing to
lose. My whole life I had tried to mold myself into something that fit in,
and it never worked no matter what I did, so finally frustration and Louise
Hay made me decide to celebrate my uniqueness and experiement with NOT
fitting in, as colorfully as possible.
That in turn brought me to the K-list.. where finally, I found a place
where I belong.
Activism. Years ago, someone who was hoping to use me for his own agenda
pointed out to me that any culture does not get a foothold until it has a
homeland, some turf to call it's own. The Hebrews needed Israel, the gays
took over San Francisco.
Now I am being guided to purchase a ghost town, to become homeland for
Kundalites. Somewhere along the line of struggling with being a misfit,
like you, I started to wonder what would happen if all the misfits got
together to create a culture of misfits..
Now, in some ways I have gone far to the other extreme. I see Kundalites
as being literally, a different species of human from the sleepers.
Kundalini changes DNA, and human herd instincts kick us out of the Tribe,
because we smell different. Pheromones of roses and sandalwood.
We *are* different.. and the differences go deeper than race, culture or
sexual orientation. A new species of humans is being born all over the world.
Years ago, when the Shakti flow of the list was messing up the listserv,
I was guided to make an energy structure to transfer the energy of the
mails, reroute it along cords of energy to bypass the computer web. The
nexus took the form of a lighthouse, with the glow of our unity becoming a
beacon calling for others of the Tribe to come home. They have been, too.
Synchronicity leads them here. To the home that you created.
>I have another talent which is harder to own. I see things that aren't
>supposed to be seen and I say things that aren't supposed to be said.
>Articulating these hidden, silent things is a deeper level of championing
>underdog. To give voice to forbidden, imperceived or unconscious thoughts
>and feelings requires a warrior's courage, endurance, and often,
>Without this, one could not stand against the tide of popular ideas and
>acceptable behavior long enough to speak.
The Shaman's gift, the artists view point is a critique of culture..
but the even trickier part is the discernment of knowing when to speak..
and that judgment is always subjective. Can you own that talent, in
another? Perhaps that is the road to owning it, in yourself?
What if the speaking peels away Mia's hero issues, or the fear of harm
underlying the business of selling insurance? What if it scorches the edges
of the "Noble native" PR, or peels back the dependences created by charity?
What if it sees thru your humor and asks what pain is causing you to act out?
When does "speaking your truth" reverse into "your right to swing your
fist ends at my nose"? Every holy book, is a platform for a holy war, one
truth insisting it is better than another. When does the need to express
the percieved insights become separation from those who do not agree, with
one side trying to "fix" the other?
> And sometimes, like now, a
>single person is put before the firing line. The person singled out for
>honor has done something or said something to provoke the fury of the group.
I did not see any fury in this thread.. I didn't see it in the last gang
war either, so perhaps my vision is dim. I remember flame wars on this list
that had blood spattering on the montior, but the memory is a dim one..
those days are gone.
>It doesn't take much to be on the wrong end of the rifle scopes. Isadora
>said her husband sold insurance. Bang bang bang. I break more unspoken
>rules here than anyone else, so in that sense, I've got it coming far more
>than she did. I still think she got a raw deal for her crime of having a
>mainstream outlook on life, but I've already given my rant on that.
She was too mainstream for this band of misfits.. :) .. but I'm sure
she will find another list whose "spirituality" fits in bettter with her
>One rule I break is that I don't always play nice AND I admit it.
How does it feel when others don't play nice, with you?
> There are
>plenty of people who break the "be nice" rule, but they rarely confess that
>they're doing so.
I don't claim to be nice. I get away with more mischief by openly
admitting I am a sadistic bitch.. a carnivorous predatory snake.
> Sure, I feel angry. Never saw an
>attack target who didn't, even though some insist that they aren't while
>taking fang-teethed bites at their opponents. And I'm hurt too. What hurts
>isn't having people who obviously never liked me trying to bring me down.
>But it hurts that most of my ostensible off-list supporters have remained
>silent throughout this siege. Now that I could really use a friend to stand
>on list beside me, where are the all people who through the years have told
>me how much they appreciated my posts? (A few have given me private support
>this time too, but I needed them on-list most of all.)
I'm sorry, El.. I didn't see that you needed that. You asked me for
a spanking, and I did not see that you had done anything spankable. It
appeared to me you were wielding your sword of humor with vigor and
enjoying the game.
You were playing the Warrior, and I honored your strength as a
warrior would: Not rushing to rescue you as I would a weak victim, but
seeing beauty in your brave choice to go to war against.. what? Human nature?
I came in late to the game, but Kath had already figgered out that
her perceptions of you were her own stuff, and Wim had already made a
foot-in mouth idiot of himself with the diaper comment. Kimberly never
intended to start a war in the first place, she was speaking from the
witness state, and as you observed, prefers to be emotionless. You had
>By saying that, I'm acutely aware that I just alienated more people.
>the truth gets you into so much trouble, which is why few people dare do
>To be fair, I seem to have an uncanny ability to simultaneously appear
>than I am to my enemies, and stronger than I am to my friends, who think I'm
>managing just swell on my own.
Yes, exactly. You stood like Joan of Arc, armor shining on the battle
field and your foes scattered at your feet. You did not appear to be
wounded in the fray. Usually when you are hurting you are not quite so
> More to both my fault and credit, I don't ask
>for help. So my friends don't come to my rescue and my enemies figure I'm
You did ask for help. You asked for a vote.. but it was coded in humor
so no-one took it seriously. I was hip deep in my own BS at the time so I
was not of much use to anyone.. busy trying to take the stones out of my
own eyes. Trying to take to heart the advice I gave Mia:
><< In one of the lessons of my course I warn of "The Trap of
> righteousness".. Observing the hazard of using judgments of "what other
> people need" as a motive for "Heroic" action. That attitude is what creates
> the most heinous repressions, from the Drug war to the Spanish Inquisition.
> "What other people need".. looks like martyrdom, smells like prison. It is
> the ugliest of emotional projections, because it tramples those it tries to
> "help" by projecting weakness onto them. >>
Bemused, watching as Kath and Wim tried to "fix" what wasn't broken.. you.
That seems to be the essence of what occurs, in this list pattern,
including my interactions with Ben and Mia. What happens when we try to
"save" each other.
At the same time tho, I look for perfection.. and then, I see these
events as "Natural selection" in action. Rejection, can be a gift. It kept
me moving along till I found a place where I belong.
The herd of misfits, in turn, turfs out those who smell different. It is
a pattern that seems to be instinctive rather than random. Human nature..
some things change, as we evolve, and some stay the same.
What we resist, persists.. and while there are many spiritual ideals of
humanity becoming one big happy family, I have surendered to the sad
realization that perhaps it is truly, not in our Nature. Goddess made us to
be herd creatures, territorial and tribalistic. Every bird defends it's
nest, and every wolf, his den. I don't think the path of evolution lies in
denying this instinct of human nature, wanting people to be different than
we are. I think growth comes of acknowledging it, so we can be judicous in
our awareness of it's effects. Not loving humanity for some idealized
vision of what it *ought* to be, but loving what it is. What we are.
>I am under no illusion that poor me is the object of hatred from all 375
>members (or however many are aboard now) of the K-list. Most of the members
>are silent. Who knows how they feel? There is just a small vocal faction
>after me, each for their own who-knows reasons. I've been more defensive
>than confrontational lately, although trying to keep up this Bruce Lee
>survivor routine may be making me too edgy. Holly, I think you're wonderful
>and I don't know what possessed me to take a swipe at your recent post,
>except it felt like you were coming at me too. Now, I'm not sure.
Underdog mentality starting to get to ya?
I see a continuum, between the hero-Mia thread and the insurance thread
and this one. All about projections, and thoughts creating results. Mia
went off defending victims where there were none, insurance and victim
mentalities.. now you are claiming hurt where none was intended.
Projections flying off as prayers of manifestation..
When I was studying acting in University, we had a class that radically
changed my perceptions of my lifelong experiences of rejection.
We played an improv game, and the object of the game was simple. Stay
in the social group, and get someone else kicked out. 4 people, random
situation, like returning from a skiing trip. While the players played, the
Prof sat on the sidelines giving the rest of the class a quiet running
analysis of the body language of the people playing the game.
He demonstrated how each time, the rejected individual actually took
themselves out of the game. Usually two of the people were concentrating on
ejecting the third person, and the fourth person, feeling ignored, would
interrupt the game by announcing that they had lost, when they actually
were safe as houses. The only exception, was when there were 3 women and
one man: they kicked him out in no time flat.
Mind blowing for me, who had had so many experiences of rejection, to
realize I did it to myself every time. Other people were acting on
unconscious cues that I was sending out, loud and clear like I had a "kick
me" sign taped to my back. My expectations of rejection were creating my
results. It was a 2 hour class, with a 15 min. break in the middle.. even
more mind blowing, to go into the cafeteria and watch the game being played
all around me, in "real life".
I'm still watching it.. Each of us, Gods creating our own reality by
pulling each other's strings.. getting what we pray for, even when we do
not hear our own prayers. Creating surprise parties for ourselves, with the
left hand not seeing what the right hand is up to, so we can be genuinely
surprised when the results occur.
To me, it appeared that you who know this list game so well, was toying
with it like a Master. Pulling strings to create a predictable result,
knowing too well the pattern for the result to be any surprise.
>Doesn't matter. On a deeper level, what's going on here, from my side of
>is a mix of karma and timing. Karma: I've done my share of stomping here,
>mostly stomping at what I felt were hurtful or sometimes simply idiotic
>ideas. But I've gone overboard at times too. I still feel remorse for
>jumping on Christopher Winter. He was simply spouting whatever it is he
>spouts, harming no one, when in a fit of frustration at irrelevant abstract
>esoterica in general, I lampooned his post. The list loved it. I was
>roundly applauded and Chris was very hurt. I still feel like a maggot for
>doing it to him. I apologized soon thereafter (and was criticized for THAT
>by other list members). Dirty trick when the clown scolds you for laughing
>at her antics. My bad again. It was my fault that the group sided against
>him; my lampoon was unfortunately hilarious -- one of my comedic
Why are you choosing to be a martyr for this?
Christopher being ejected was inevitable. You were not the first to
attack his perceptions, only the funniest. Maureen steadily went after his
opinions on the Church, Antoine attacked him for his spamming ways, on all
of the lists.
I attacked him in public and private mail.. but I also gave him the
benefit of the doubt.. I joined his list and submitted to his
ministrations. The result was messy. He gave me a lot of rather nasty
projections that he insisted must be true even tho they were patently
impossible. I won't go into most of them, because they were libelous of my
family.. but the oddest was insisting that my DNA is part Inuit.
He projects victim onto everybody, projects big victim stories that
never happened, and insists that they must be true because his ESP never
lies.. so that he can play rescuing hero of the underdog.
Thank Goddess, I know my own resonance well enough, not to buy into them
but most of his listmembers are not so well rooted. Chris's research work
is fascinating, but the victim projections he colors it with, serve no-one
but his own egoic sense of heroism. He has people wallowing in misery about
things that never happened, so that he can play the compassionate Master.
>Postscript: Chris never recovered from it and rarely posts here any more.
Chris spent a lot of time boasting of how he always looks for the truth
in any accusations made if him.. but you showed a truth he was not willing
to face, as did I. He has his own Tribe, his own list and followers, and
when we chose not to wave his flag for him he went off in search of others
I don't see him as a victim-outcast, suffering from the slings and
arrows of big bad El. I see him as an opportunistic predator who went off
to find easier pickings, elsewhere because the list refused to kiss his
feet and accept his projections.
El, I don't think you need to apologise for being true to your nature.
You manifested eloquently what the rest of the list was feeling, and that
is why it was so roundly celebrated. You say that being one who is honest
about what you feel and see, is a source of rejection for you.. but I love
that about you. I cherish the depth of your perceptions, even when I am the
one feeling the sting from it.
>So, peccavi, I deserve to be "hit", shot down, whatever, but not for any of
>the reasons being thrown at me. And beyond the blame-you, blame-me stuff,
>I've been pouring out too much of my energy here. Goddess keeps giving me
>signs that I'm needed elsewhere. Time for me to really "move on," as the
>thread has been suggesting. I don't know if I'm taking a vacation from the
>K-list or vacating permanently. I'll see where the Spirit leads me.
I felt your restlessness with the list, for the past few months it has
seemed like you were debating whether to unsubscribe and move on. I have
hoped you would stick around, but in the end I knew it would be as Goddes
wills.. thou art Goddess.
During this past weeks game, My eyes saw a Master, manipulating the list
herd instinct patterns, precisely and with great skill, in order to create
the result that you desired. Taking the pattern into yourself and playing
the underdog role for your own purposes.. apparently, to get the energy to
spring into flight.
You love us too much to be able to leave on your own, so you took the
actions you knew would create the result you sought, to get yourself
rejected... apparently, because you feel you deserve it, for your part in
In the past, I have persuaded you to stay, but this time you have asked
not to be persuaded.. so I feel it is not my place to keep your feet from
treading whatever path Goddess bids you to travel.
I don't want you to unsub, but I recognise my reasons are self centered.
I want you to stay, because I need you. Your sharp wit and barbs give me
balance, they keep me from flying too far off into celebrating my own
specialness.. they keep me grounded in the human race when I'm feeling like
an alien in a human body. I want you to stay, because the list needs your
wisdom and experience. I want you to stay, because I love you, and I
cherish your Warrior Goddess beauty, and your compassionate heart.
Caryatid who has fallen under her stone:
> And in the time it has taken me to write this --
>and the time it may take for it to be posted on the list after I send it --
>if a knight in shining armor or a warrior goddess has enlisted in the cause
>of "save the El," I throw you garlands of roses and my most humble
> I'm still going; it's time, but I will carry your love in my heart always.
Do what you need to do, but know that you are loved, here.. :)
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