To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/06/27 15:22
Subject: Digest 204, Sunday, June 25, 2000 6:13 AM
From: percyval
On 2000/06/27 15:22, percyval posted thus to the K-list:
Digest 204, Sunday, June 25, 2000 6:13 AM
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There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Learned Optimism.
From: "huka9802:First huka9802:Last" <huka9802ATnospamearthlink.net>
2. Re: Abuse Poll
From: Kathy Bates <lunaATnospammaskmakers.com>
3. Re: Re: Abuse Poll
From: YahseyesATnospamaol.com
4. Beyond Abuse *long*
From: v <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:03:18 -0500
From: "huka9802:First huka9802:Last" <huka9802ATnospamearthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Learned Optimism.
This Learned Optimism must be a pet peeve of mine; I'm feeling the need to
respond to the responses to it.
El,
I like how you point out the positive side of truth-seeking.
Otherwise, I could right now be getting on my case about why am I not more
optimistic; why didn't I learn this. Although I have become much more
positive than I used to be, since I have seen the value in focusing on what
I want to create in my life instead of getting mired in fear.
Karen
El wrote:
Optimism and truth-seeking are both
> "useful." Some of the world's greatest artists, musicians, writers, poets
> and philosophers drew heavily on their perceptive and often emotionally
> volatile truth-seeking natures to produce their most brilliant work. I've
> never been an optimist, but I have confidence and faith in the value of
being
> on a truth-seeking path. It has given me a very internally rich and
> meaningful (to me, at least) life.
>
> Optimists tend to celebrate life while truth seekers (who aren't
necessarily
> pessimists, but are aware of the tragic and fierce side of life) are more
> intent on exploring life's fertile depths. Neither is ultimately a better
> modus operandi, just different internal orientations. I seriously
question
> how much optimism -- or truth-seeking perceptiveness -- can be taught. I
> think we each have an inherent inclination toward one or the other. This
is
> reflected in astrology, where certain signs are naturally more
introspective
> and serious-minded while others are more buoyant, extroverted, and
> fun-loving. And there can be combinations of both in the personality; it
> isn't necessarily a totally black or white thing.
>
> El
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
961786933/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:20:46 -0500
From: Kathy Bates <lunaATnospammaskmakers.com>
Subject: Re: Abuse Poll
druoutATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Dear List,
>
> The sensitive issue of Child Abuse has been an undercurrent on this list
over
> the years. I believe it to be one of the "triggers" to later awakening.
>
> Question: Were you abused as a child? What form did this abuse take?
Unless you consider having to sit in church and listen to a hate-filled
preacher scream that we were all sinners who were going to hell, no. If
so, then yes. But not inside my family or by my family's acquaintances,
friends, or strangers, and not direct physical abuse...
The preachings scared me terribly though and I did feel scarred by the
really dysfunctional ideas this ranting and raving man had to say...I
never understood why my grandparents and parents wanted to go to church
to hear this shit.
> How did you deal with this abuse?
I became a super sensitive child, "the good example" kid...
> Do you think it was the primary reason for your K awakening?
No. It may have even delayed it (but that's kind of odd because I
believe it came at just the right time)...
Blessings,
Kath
******************************
Luna and Solara Designs http://www.maskmakers.com
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 02:23:15 EDT
From: YahseyesATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Abuse Poll
hehe, lets try this again...
<< Question: Were you abused as a child? What form did this abuse take?
Yes, father beat me daily, used to give myself contests to see if I could
make it less than 3 times a day without crying or being physically abused.
Physical and Verbal abuse was rampant in my tenement household. I was an
only child, father was alcoholic, mother was beaten, broken spirit,
constantly verbally, and scared to death of him. she was so scared she would
offer me to him when he needed to beat on something. I was only a baby., a
toddler
I was sacrificed to my father by my own mother.
He used to do weird things like hitting me if he found me cuddled with a toy
in bed, come near my bed in the middle of the night with a rubber monster
mask and wake me, he once shot an air gun off by my ear when I was watching
tv to see me jump and then he would laugh. I don't know why.
One day, he hit me so many times I went down on the floor, I was less than 5
or 6 years old, then he kicked my body around the floor like a mop, I think
I
went unconscious, he just kept kicking and kicking me like he hated my
lifeless body over and over. He kicked my body into our flat bathroom which
had a swollen door and frame from the paint from the summer heat in NY and
slammed it closed so it stuck with me inside.
I was at first terrified. My mother was afraid to call for help, she was
more comfortable viewing me as a sacrifice to a beating. He was drunk and
couldn't open the door. He didn't try anyway. I was left in that cold
bathroom for over 24 hours, probably a couple of days. I was terrified, then
I realized death was for sure and that was all that could happen, death
became a friend to be waiting for, so I waited. I drank the cold stream of
water from the bathroom faucets and stared at the rays of sunlight coming
into the bathroom window.
My cries stopped. He must of thought I finally died. I stayed quiet in that
bathroom, just me and the light streaming into the little window. Watching
the dust playing in the rays, they became my friends and playmates. The
tears stopped rolling. I waiting for death with an open mouth and an open
heart and felt wonderful. Hunger went away, fear gone.
12 more hours and the door was pushed open. He must have been working on how
to explain I died and got stuck in a bathroom to the police, no police were
with him. but no, there I was, sitting quietly with my little new friend,
the sunlight. He got scared, said I looked weird, like an angel. sitting in
the sunbeam. I slowly turned toward him and looked at him with an adult's
look of disgust. From that day, he has been very scared of me until he died.
>How did you deal with this abuse?
I invented games, I went into myself, I left my body, I traveled to other
places, I sometimes went to a church and stared at pictures of Mary and felt
her presence inside of me and her strength. She has always been with me and
is now. She became my mother and my being to replace the one I had but was
too afraid to be.
I lost all fear of death, I have no fears today except for the compassion of
the wrongs done to others. I am too removed to be affected. I don't have an
ego, it died in the bathroom.
Physically, I became very strong and a good fighter. I don't know how this
happened but I think it was a gift of goddess so I could protect myself. He,
my father, was a special forces killer Air force from W.W.II, he had killed
many soldiers, he was trained specially to kill in hand to hand combat, he
showed me many moves. I started using them against him when he attacked me
or my mother.
He was afraid of me on that level also. I would take my body and fly across
the room and insert my teeth into his chest and hang on pulling my weight
backwards so he would fall forward. pieces of his chest hanging in my mouth.
Trying to hook around his aorta so I could pull it our of his neck, feeling
his heart so close to my teeth, trying to penetrate his chest. He was full
of scars from me, a result of his own teachings of his own horrible way of
living given back to him by his only child. It gave me satisfaction to know
I was hurting him and stopping the beast from hurting others. He had made me
a detached opponent. I had no feelings towards the possible chance of his
death that I was bringing about even though he was my own father.
He was a horrible person with a hidden good heart that was very confused. He
was also abused as a child. Had I not believed that in my soul, I would have
killed him easily.
>Do you think it was the primary reason for your K awakening?
Yes, that and severe Rheumatic fever, pronounced dead also around 6 years
old, but had NDE - a number of them, the bathroom memory is probably my
first, and lived. around same time as this event.
I became a detached servant of Goddess, she has always been with me. and now
he is gone, and I am fine, and I am here feeling her energy. Therapy did
wonders, had an angel, Mary, no longer needing to be Kali, now took the form
of one called Hillary, who you know about.
Thank Goddess for my experiences that awakened me. thanks Hillary for
allowing me to tell this nightmare to give my Hillary a mention.
Love Lou
Please feel free to E-mail me privately.
You can use your discrimination, I trust your judgment and whatever you
decide.
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 00:55:03 -0800
From: v <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
Subject: Beyond Abuse *long*
I believe the concept of abuse is a very relative term. To some
degree, everyone has been abused in some way. Sharing abusive situations
is healing, but to hang onto that pain inside is destructive. I should
know!
That's why the Desiderata mentions not to compare ourselves with
others. I think that is just basic 'folk wisdom'.
They say forgiveness is the way through that pain. Not to absolve the
perpetrators, neccessarily, but just to let ourselves BE alive. Like the
flora & fauna, we have the right to be here & to just exist without that
pain.
Like a "good Catholic gal" - I often find myself feeling guilty for
being overwhelmed with self-pity, when I realize in my heart that - even
with my griefs - there are children out there homeless, starving, in the
midst of bloodshed & wars. What does that say about "karma"? Why are
their legions of people in this world who suffer endlessly & daily,
trapped in situations beyond their control? At least, in my case, I
managed to walk away from the abuse; to recognize it for what it was &
change my situation. Yes, it was sad, *sniff*, but I was able to escape
it.
And it's just past traumas which are so upsetting. One might even
convince themselves into thinking it was just a bad dream. More
delusions upon the karmic wheel...
So, how do we forgive our tormentors, I mean REALLY forgive them, so
as to get on with life? Is it a supernatural act of grace when one has
become clear enough inside to get our ego away, & shelter our higher
selves? Do pain & grief just fade away? Is it a mental exercise &
discipline to catch the pain before it spreads & give it a name &
forgive so as to exorcise it?
I'd like to know, because no matter how many times I have forgiven,
then another repressed memory arises & I find I haven't yet even begun
to forgive. First all the memories need to be exposed. I imagine that
there is a natural order to these things - what cannot be remembered, is
not yet forgiven? Should forgiveness be immense enough to embrace
*the whole world & past tortures*. no matter what?
I've had a lot of therapy, but it seems impossible to find someone to
talk to who has had as much experience as myself, & seem just "book
larned". To me, people who have never fallen & had to pick themselves up
& walk, seem to be in another dimension altogether.
And there are subliminal forces at work which wreak havoc within an
otherwise pastoral existance. Like being rear-ended 3 times & maimed by
a GIANT SCHNAUZER named 'Fate'. What in the world was THAT about???
True, the little boy who got crushed by the lumber & killed - well,
who's to say if he had it worse? It was his fate & I cannot second guess
it.
I find myself having to work very consciously & regularly with
grounding & shining the light. And even if I cannot yet be of any other
service to anyone because my life has been so whacky, when around me,
people get grounded & included in a waterfall of light. Even if I can't
look at them without crying, I realize it's me, not them. I find it much
easier to forgive people when I am faced with them. Forgiving
retrospectively from the murky past has so far been a bitch trying to
exorcise those hidden demons.
The present life provides people & experiences & emotions to trigger
the past demons so as to bring them to Light; so far that is my
understanding.
If I weren't a single-mom, I suspect joining the Peace Corps & moving
to a third world country might be the medicine needed for
*attitude adjustment*. Immersing the self in service to others less
fortunate, being that it's more blessed to give than to receive...& all
that.
Anyway, am up late blathering again. Thankyou for the back-channel
posts & support.
It seems like the best way to overcome all the negative, without
joining the Peace Corps, is to heal oneself with Love, in love with
self, forgiving self first, & let the ripple effect spread where it may.
Survival of the fittest.
Sounds so easy now, when earlier I couldn't bust through beyond
weeping because I wouldn't let myself go out & play...
Every day is a new day, with new beginnings. And tomorrow is another
day, it may be all we have, so let us each be blessed with that
knowledge, & give thanks for the miracle of life while we're here on our
funky & confusing little planet!
:-/
valerie
*sniff*
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