To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/06/22 14:09
Subject: Re: [K-list] Mia beware........LOLOL
From: Lynda
On 2000/06/22 14:09, Lynda posted thus to the K-list:
From: Wim Borsboom <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
To: Lynda <pythonissaATnospammadasafish.com>;
Dear Wim,
Part of me wants to let it go, it's just a mailing list and so on and so on,
part of me wants to make the effort to reply, because the reply I want to
make is about the choice to just stand and watch and the choice to get
involved, so, here goes-
> I understand your feelings well, your reaction is what some of my posts
> elicit, and please do not take me wrong I appreciate your feelings as they
> are real. Also I appreciate that there may be something that I did not
clear
> up well enough in that post. I have written about that a few years ago
> though..., I was a rejected child at the end of WWII, so I know what you
are
> talking about... However *I* was rejected, it happened to *me*, I did not
> see it happen to another child. The way such an experience is worked
through
> is totally different for the subject than for a person who, by seeing this
> happen, gets instilled by fear and sympathy.
I agree. My first experience of this sort of 'rejection' as you call it was
at 18 months old, and it transformed a fairly 'normal' toddler ino an
inanimate, mute, creature for nine months before I fond my vocal chords
again.
That is a totally different
> process, exactly
> that process (except for the sympathy) that the perpetrators of abuse want
> to instil.
> I did not mind too much what other ppl. thought about my rejection, I did
> not need sympathy... Sympathy of a certain kind and pity did not work then
> and do not work now.
For me it is different. I think I did need understanding, not sympathy.
There were other occaisions of the abuse of power relationships as I grew,
and again I think I would have benefited from some action from other people
rather than the 'blind eyes' that were turned. That is not to say that I
cannot appreciate that my experiences have helped me, I learned a lot.
> Most sympathy and the thoughts that surround that feeling are fear driven
> and in those early days of mine, those feelings and thoughts added to my
> pain for sure.
> The experience of the witness to a dramatic event is not the same as what
> the subject of that dramatic event undergoes. I had the hardest time
> throwing off the well-meant but pitiful sympathy that kept me a victim, in
> order for the real healing to start.
I have to admit that I am unable to understand fully what this must have
been like. As no one percieved me to be a victim, neither did I, I thought
it was all 'normal'. I firmly beleived that I was a volunteer, not a
'victim'. It is only relatively recently, that that 'realisation' has
dawned,that perhaps I was both, so I rather missed out on the
sympathy.( which is possibly a good thing lol!)
I had to find a way to survive by
> myself and not being carried as a babe in arms through external
nursing....
> apparently it worked. I had to learn to overcome the fear of losing
> sympathy, and other fears that still activated my nightmares.
I have always carried on as thogh I didn't deserve any better, chin up,
get on with it, pick your self up, dust your self down etc. etc. Of course,
I
can manage alone, to ask for sympathy or any help to bring up my kids and
earn the roof over their heads, was beneath my dignity, you are never sent
more than you can cope with was my motto. Now I have the nightmares.
. Eventually I
> freed myself from those illusive, suffering-laden and fearful episodes and
> freed myself.
I hope I can get there too.
> The feelings of witnesses cannot be denied but they are totally based on
> what fear drives on:
> "If you do this.... then you will be punished."
> "If that happens... then you will have pain."
> "What you see happening here, will also happen to you or you child, if
> you....."
> "If you don't do what I want you to do... then I will reject, kill,
> maim,etc... you."
> This type of fear dynamism is totally hypothetical however,
> fixed though it maybe in the mind and lodged as stresses in the body. So
I'm
> not denying the reality of the feeling and the stresses, they are real but
> to undo those stresses one has to gain clarity and insight in how those
> fears were
> instilled, one has to see the dynamics and then one will free oneself....
> Curses, spells, damnation, punishment, excommunication all use that
illusive
> version of horrific reality to get you to walk in line or follow the
dogma.
> That illusive version of reality will eventually look more real than the
> obvious or evident reality. The power abuser has then reached victory over
> the victim.
I agree, with much of what you say, but I do have problems with te way you
say it. And I know that these are 'my problems'.
> It took me many years to see reality and throw off the illusion of
> conditional suffering ...
>
> The Buddha (Siddharta Gautama Shakyamuni) said the following:
> "The way people normally live life is through the dynamics of fear and
> suffering."
> "Fear and suffering are illusion"
> "We can liberate ourselves from illusion by recovering the truth and the
> simplicity of reality."
>
> Those are the noble truths. It was kind of him to say that :-)
And this I agree with - but, (there'salways a but with me...) I still think
I
have a choice about how I act, as did the peole who were around me as I grew
up. In myself I find that the stand by and watch, don't say any thing and
certainly don't 'act' to alleviate the suffering I can identify with, is a
cop out. To stand in silence, to just witness, wold be the safe option. To
step in and say, to me this is wrong and *I* want it changed, and will do
anything in my power to help it change, is so scary, but to not intervene,
to remain 'above' the suffering, to me, means that at some level the abusers
still have power, that I am frightened of standing up and saying, 'It is
WRONG to treat a child so'. And wading in and protecting that child, what
ever it costs.
>
> The way I did recover reality is the way I keep describing it in my posts
so
> that some ppl. may be helped by it. Maybe sometimes I am not so kind, but
> then, it is not easy work as the power-monger's spell still hangs over
those
> ppl. who want to liberate themselves from that abuser (who at some point
> even fades into anonymity. Also a seemingly victorious power abuser also
> always includes something like: "If you try to get free I will harm you
even
> more... "
Exactly. But (here I go agin lol!) , for me to speak out, to step in and
challenge, is to face that fear, I have the choice to stand and witness, or
I can act, however 'doubt ridden' I may be.
>
> Although I appreciate the witnesses's (mother, father, nurse and nuns)
> sympathies, those 'good' feelings were also packaged in hatred... that is
> understandable, of course,... but carrying on with the hatred only led me
to
> reprisals that I took out on my mother and brother(s) etc. Those fights
had
> repercussions that only extended the fear, hatred and maliciousness.....
> just like it would, on a larger scale, extend into wars, more wars and
> genocide.
I agree that this scenario is to be avioded, if at all possible.I am
discovering I have a lot of anger re 'certain persons' but for the witness I
have only sadness that they did not feel brave enough to 'challenge'. I
cannot expect others to have the courage that I am struggling to find.
> What is important to me is how *I* processed it. In the first place I went
> through a near death experience then, so that made the whole situation
> totally different.
I'm afraid I went mad. ( the lol! is there but I'm not sure that it's
appropriate laughter!)
>
> In my practice now, I deal a lot with people who have
> experienced same, rejection to the point of death, repeated suicide
attempts
> and repressed or misunderstood memories of an early near death
experience.
>
> Needless to say it took me an enormous amount of after-experience to make
> sense of my early tribulations. I have various times, before and after the
> one I just described, gone through NDE's, altogether 7 times. During the
> last one I could finally decide in all freedom to stay alive on this, our
> good earth, the other 6 times I was sometimes forcefully, sometimes
> humoristically nudged or pushed back to life. I must have been thick and
> stubborn to need so many times.
I am at the moment recovering from my third 'bout' of madness/ dreamtime
experience, (I thank God for the improvments to the mental health system). I
still have a lot of fear of getting 'stuck' there ( not sure why, 'cos I'd
be happy and 'blissfully' unaware if previous experience is anything to go
by.)
>
> I believe that in one of my early posts I described what happened to me in
> that
> occupied hospital, and what my feelings and experiences were, how I worked
> it out. I was rejected and supposed to die from the diphtheria and
dysentery
> by the German overseer. I had for the longest time nightmares about that
> situation...
> until I worked it through hypnosis and compassion...
>
> When I wrote:
> >> Rejection is of course not a factual thing as nobody get really
> >>annihilated when rejected.
> Of course, and I may not have chosen my words well, rejection is a real
> action and painful, even if it is just a threat. The fear though that
> surrounds it, the eternal aspect of it, the absolute damnation, the
> annihilation is NOT TRUE.
> During that early experiences of myself being discarded, thrown away
> literally, I discovered that the only thing that is the truth is that
death
> does not exist.... that was my discovery... Also I, the self, was not
> affected... Next thing that I remember is that that German overseer had an
> immense amount of love in his face as he remembered his own little boy in
> Germany and as he saw him in my eyes, even right at that moment of his
> heinous act. When I had worked this out, by retrieving and integrating all
> my memories, some through hypnosis, some through sewing together flashes
of
> memory, some while recounting my nightmarish dreams, when I eventually
gave
> my wife and son an account of this at the breakfast table one morning,
this
> man came to me... appearing... over the shoulder of my wife, at the moment
> of my dissolution of fear and hatred and he was absolved from all
> wrongdoing...
> THAT IS HOW IT WORKS
I hope I get there.
With love,
Lynda
>
> Love,
> Wim
A circle is the longest distance to the same point. - Tom Stoppard.
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