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To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/06/11 00:19
Subject: Re: [K-list] stifled
From: v

On 2000/06/11 00:19, v posted thus to the K-list:

ckressATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Through Valerie, then Kent and Xavier, the concept of a true love keeps
> popping up here.

Spring is sprung!

  Reminds me of an interview with the actor Paul Newman,
> whose long marriage to Joanne Woodward defies the usual Hollywood statistics.
> When Newman was asked to reveal the secret of his successful marriage, he
> replied, "It was impossible in the beginning, impossible in the middle, and
> it's impossible now."

   always the challenge, the conquest, the pursuit of mystery & the
Divine ecstacy & agony, isn't it? Like - it's not the destination, but
the journey. When there is no mystery or challenge, the conquistador
must turn elsewhere for the pursuit...
   For some reason, I thought that would go away after high school, but
damn! same ol' same ol'...(i think).
> >From my own experience with intimate relationships (a ten year 1st marriage,
> my current marriage of 14 years, and my other love/erotic relationships),
> Newman's answer hits the target dead on. Even if you can turn your
> projections and needs for love toward an interior perfect "divine lover," no
> living human being can ever receive you or give you all you want and need in
> a relationship. It doesn't matter if you're geared for and capable of long
> term "one-and-only beloved" type relationship or if you need the freedom of
> multiple partners or serial relationships. Non-monogamous types run into
> constant problems in the intimacy dept. too.

   well, yeah - i see that.
   when I started college, about 1980 or so, I had been gone, working in
the mountains & woods for about 3 years, & an unplanned tryst of being
stuck in Nebraska for another year or so (from Oregon). I had become
totally Tao, but a total recluse inwardly. I couldn't even speak to
anyone intimately or casually. Being immersed in art & theatre arts
kinda helped relieve the pain of manditory human interactions, but I am
still rather an *ice queen*.
   Now that I'm an Alaskan these past 13 years, you'da thunk I'da let
SOMEbody have their way with me by now, eh?
   People communicate by art, by music, by writing. It's the face2face
& body language/signals that I just don't ken...
> There are few situations that constellate more complex levels of
> interpersonal needs, desires, vulnerabilities, expectations, delusions,
> fears, hopes and dreams than erotic/intimate love. This is the universal
> human arena of ecstasy and agony. There is no one-size-fits-all solution
> that applies to everyone or to a single person in all circumstances of love
> relationship. Eros can't be reduced to a formula. If you go into
> Eros/Aphrodite's domain, forget about your handbook and compass. You're in
> the wilderness now, with only your heart and your raw, exposed guts and naked
> instincts for your guide. Try maneuvering your way through with anything
> else and you'll get lost out there and stay lost for a very long time.

   yes, & it's very very touching when someone gets to the heart despite
all that repressed dross & schlock & boundaries & walls. SO touching, in
fact, that if/when it doesn't work out for some reason,(or for no
reasons), that it just seems unbelievable! That we can be so "in love" &
be rejected by the outer "beloved"...
   I know there's some amount of obsessive/compulsive tendencies,which
refuse to digest the obvious, & carry on & on & on. When it is SO hard &
scary to let someone into your heart, & then you do, & they don't want
you...is it a maelstrom of "neediness"???
   That idea seems so tacky, but maybe that's who I am inside by now. I
am so freaked out by my inner feelings of love & nurturing & passion,
that I lock them away inside. And it becomes a very polarized issue.
Black OR white; forget the shades of gray.
   But most all of life is some shade of gray, isn't it? And maybe for
some people, beautiful rainbow colored hues. But in my case, shades of
gray would be a step up, I suspect.
> If you enter the erotic-love wilderness expecting to quickly or permanently
> arrive at a sun-kissed, flower-strewn meadow or a steamy passion-pulsing
> tropical paradise, you'll be shocked to discover that there's bears in them
> woods... and crocodiles, and coyotes, and centipedes and mosquitoes and all
> kinds of mess and yuck and warty things and scary beasts... and beautiful
> creatures that run away when you want them to hang around. If you want to
> play it safe, stick with your divine interior lover or porn fantasies and
> avoid real human contact. But if you're willing to risk everything and able
> to endure the "impossible," love will find you. It might not come to you
> through the person you hoped it would, and it can be very hard to let go of
> that. And when it comes, it won't look or feel or be exactly what you had in
> mind. The real things never are quite the way we imagined they would be...

   I would like to play it safe with my divine interior lover, but how?
Is it akin to porno?
   The way people seem to get together up here, is to have "one too
many" at the bar, & stagger home with somebody who forgets to go home
   My mom was a jazz singer when I was born (to ruin her career), & went
through quite a large medley of lovers & husbands she had met as a
barfly, & now she is alone & old & bitter.
   So, I don't do that! I just don't go out anywhere, instead.
   And I have discovered such a wealth of real love with my daughter,
for the very first time.
   But eros/aphrodite, they elude me. I am a woman, but I live by my
wits & cannot stand to be perceived as "weak" or "needy" on the outside.
But it's the inside that I am concerned with.
> Being in a loving relationship will give you joy and aggravation . It will
> depress you and amuse you and elate you and leave you unfulfilled and
> simultaneously overflow your heart with greater blessings than you knew were
> possible, all in a maddening, paradoxical, very human way. That's my
> experience, at any rate.

   Thankyou so much for your response! It rings so true, & even the
process of replying has been a valuable & enlightening experience.
   But...(again) WHAT interior lover? How do we avoid human contact with
an interior lover? Even that would be much better than what I am going
through about now...



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