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To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/03/20 16:16
Subject: Re: [K-list] Astrology stuff
From: Ckress

On 2000/03/20 16:16, Ckress posted thus to the K-list:

From: ckressATnospamaol.com

Angelique wrote:
<< El, you are adorable. :) >>

Hold that thought -- you may want to revise it after this post...

Angelique wrote:
<< New moon is tomorrow.>>

Uh, unless tomorrow is April 4th, one of us is on a different planet. Look
at the sky tonight and tell me if that isn't a full moon (was exact at 11:44
p.m. 3/19, according to my calendar.)

Angelique wrote:
<< Saturn is egoistic, full of "shoulds" and repressive limiting factors. >>

Right, which is why it's a drag, blech... While I'm an anarchist at heart,
I've learned that Saturn has it's place in the great scheme of things too.
Without structure (which Saturn rules) you have nothing but chaos, and
boundaries (again, Saturn's forte) have their usefulness.

Angelique wrote:
<< [Whoopi Goldberg] is great.. she gets away with a lot of physical comedy
and swearing that would get other fem comics (like Roseanne Barr) lynched,
because she is very masculine. >>

Strange. I perceive Barr as more locked into a masculine gestalt. Whoopi
has incredible versatility in her masculine/feminine expressions. You must
not have seen her portrayal of an impoverished, abused and subjugated woman
who finally comes into her own power through the loving support of another
woman in "The Color Purple." Whoopi also used to do a heart-wrenching skit
of a little black girl who wears a white shirt on her head and pretends it's
blond hair, dreaming of the day when she will grow up to be blond and
beautiful. This was a social commentary on what it felt like to be black in
the 50's, when the predominant media images of feminine beauty were of
white-skinned blondes.

Angelique wrote:
<< You are usually very serious, and laughter heals. >>

Well, I've been doing satire and parodies since I was ten. I incorporated a
lot of my satire/comedy/theatre-of-the-absurd into my solo and group stage
performances in my 20's and 30's. It's nothing new for me, humor gets me
through the day much of the time. True, I have a profoundly serious side --
oppressively so at times. But my wacko sense of humor sometimes goes
overboard to become obnoxious too. Anything in excess can turn ugly.

Angelique wrote:
<< There is a part of you that spends a lot of energy rescuing folks and
doing what needs to be done.. it is very responsible and compassionate.. but
it does not see perfection in the struggle of other. It wants to fix things,
and no kidding you get tired.. weight of the pain of the world on your

Having a service-oriented nature doesn't blind me to the intelligence of the
Tao! But I'm part of the Tao -- the perfect order of the universe -- too.
I'm under no delusion that the world or anything in it needs me to "fix" it.
I've had a lifelong calling to be an advocate of the disenfranchised, but
I've long known that whatever benefit (or lack of benefit) comes of my words
and actions isn't my fruit to gather. I just do what I'm geared to do, which
sometimes means making noisy protests and sometimes just sharing from my
heart and sometimes letting my raucous sense of humor run wild.

Angelique wrote:
Do you run "Shared Transformation" because of "what other people need", or
for the joy of doing? There has been a lot of stuff said about selflessness,
but I find greater virtue, in selfishness, because it is honest.>>

It's possible to be both selfish and selfless simultaneously, if you connect
with other people in a reciprocal way. In the introductory issue, I
explained why we'd created Shared Transformation. Why we did it was
summarized in the last paragraph: "Through Shared Transformation, we want to
offer such validation, inspiration, hope and encouragement to one another. A
woman I know, having gone through a four and half year intense Kundalini
awakening with no clue of what was happening to her, announced emphatically,
"No one should have to go through this alone." I think she's right. Let's
reach out to one another, so we can go through it together." (The entire
excerpt is on our site at http://members.aol.com/ckress/issueone.html)

The reason I ran it was to share the journey with others. At the time we
started ST in '93, there were no Internet K lists or K-oriented websites. I
needed contact with peers who were experiencing Kundalini, and I knew there
were others who needed it too. We were able to give lots of support to each
other in a group-written publication. I still reread old issues when I'm
having some new twist in my K-process and recall that we'd published a story
from someone who wrote about experiencing something very similar. The years
of publishing ST were very rewarding and sustaining to both me and my husband
and to the hundreds of readers who wrote to thank us. When it stopped being
personally sustaining for me and was turning into me slaving away only for
the sake of the others, I knew it was time to quit. The current double issue
#44/45 is the final issue of ST (although all the back issues are still
available while they last).

Angelique wrote:
<< When I took over the K-list, I had to be very sure of my selfish motives.
It was/is a beautiful garden that I had gotten a lot of enjoyment out of, and
I wanted to own it so I could be sure it would continue to exist, and keep
giving me more of what I'd been getting. I knew that I'd burn out on
martyrdom, selflessness would run out, leaving me feeling like I'd been
ripped off... I knew I'd not be able to continue the commitment long-term
unless I was getting well paid in the coin of my own bliss. My motives had to
be selfish, or I would not have the energy to sustain me, in the long term. >>

YES! Unhealthy for you and unhealthy for people who are cannibalizing you.
I had to learn not to overextend my generosity to the point of burnout too.
THAT message came through loud and clear when my back crashed and people who
knew how much pain I was in and how disabled I was still expected me to take
care of their needs instead of my own. NO WAY I could do it, and for the
first time, I got really angry that I was being asked to do this. Now I
don't consent to let anyone take advantage of me in that way.

Angelique wrote:
<< you have judged yourself more harshly for that post, than anybody else

Maybe. One never knows what goes on in the minds of the silent lurkers on
list. But my self-respect has always depended more on what I think of myself
than what anyone else thinks of me. If I can look in the mirror and accept
what I see, I can live with that, no matter how anyone else may judge me.

Angelique wrote:
<< Where is the middle path? I suspect it is a place that is a whole lot
more fun than the hypersensitive judgments of morality you get into.. >>

Yeah, but "a whole lot more fun" isn't the only criteria for wholeness and
balance. What you see as "hypersensitive judgments of morality," I regard as
having a conscience. I crack myself up with my own humor, but I'm also aware
of how easily it can become ruthless. Nobody else's philosophy, no matter
how much it works for them, can counter the small voice in my heart that
says, "El, be kind. Be as gentle and kind as you can to yourself and to all
other beings." Part of being gentle and kind to myself is occasionally
giving my naughty side licence to get up and strut its stuff because it needs
expression too. And part of being kind and gentle is to follow up with
damage control where I feel its necessary...

Angelique wrote:
<< Thinking that it must be hard and long, <mercury snickers at the ribald
innuendo> is a limiting belief. You *want* it to be a long wrestling match,
coz you enjoy the experience of struggle and you don't want it to end. You
are fascinated by your own macrame projects, tying simple things into knots
gives you a sense of accomplishment. Why not just admit you are a maschocist
who likes to suffer and struggle? Saturn is your Dominatrix, and you go back
for the spankings and scoldings over and over coz you like it! Yummy!! It
would be a lot more honest than this martyr-hero routine that has you
suffering because you think it is "good for you".>>

Coming from a dom who finds me adorable, I guess this is a high compliment?!?
 Actually, for a Scorp, tying things into inscrutable knots is more along the
lines of an obsessive-compulsive disorder than masochism. Your presto-chango
everything-is-solved-now formula sounds terrific in theory but isn't so easy
to put into practice, dear Omnipotent One. We who struggle under the
illusion of time, space, human frailty and astrology (Saturn transits remain
strongly in effect for at least a year, sob-groan) tend to progress at less
than Sag-lightning speed. Forgive us our snail-plodding pace, Oh Great
Velocity Queen.

By the way, who are you quoting when you say that suffering is "good for
you"? The Catholic church? They used to be really big on that. I was
raised by an agnostic father and a mother who sent us to church (Protestant)
so the neighbors would think she was doing her duty as a good mother. I
don't think the Protestants bought into the "suffering is good for the soul"
bit. They are more inclined to think suffering is punishment from God for
sinners. Geez, that's even worse! Personally, I have always been horrified
by suffering, my own or any other being's, but I've been forced to deal with
it and find that it CAN have a redeeming purpose.

Angelique wrote:
<< I understand all that stuff about how you think a lifetime of suffering is
good for the growth of the soul, but I don't buy it.>>

Well, obviously you haven't understood what I think about that, Oh
Less-than-Totally Omnicient One.

Angelique wrote:
<< Your soul already knows everything, and is everything, outside of time,

Yeah, but we have pretty lousy memories, don't we?

Angelique wrote:
<< What you wrote is just the reason your ego tells itself.>>

Just about everything any of us is writing/saying/thinking is what our egos
tell themselves. You want to talk to someone egoless, you're on the wrong
list. Probably you're even looking to the wrong species. Try listening to a
tree or a butterfly. Much less ego and more pure soul there. Humans are
rather annoying, ego-wise. Too bad you fail to see the perfection in their
egoism. (I fail to see it too, but I have my hypersensitive morality for an
excuse, where you, unfortunately, are more accountable since you've got
everything clear. What a burden that must be.)

Angelique wrote:
<< I also see clearly the blockages that manifest as pain, and they are tied
in with the hypersensitivity that makes you judge me "unspiritual" when I
flame somebody.>>

I've never judged you "unspiritual" for anything. I think all of us are
spiritual all the time, even if we don't know it. We're spiritual beings
incarnate. What you are referring to above, I believe, is when I disagreed
with your decree that Tony should be lynched and roasted over a barbecue pit
for K-list dinner. (Ok, I'm severely paraphrasing your actual call to arms
over that incident.) I simply didn't think he'd done anything deserving of
that extreme a reprimand.

Angelique wrote:
<< You don't see the love in it, but that does not mean it is not there..
love is all that Is.>>

Ultimately, yes. In a world devoid of paradox, yes. Not in this world of
duality, though. This gets sticky, as in Michael's recent post (beautifully
written) about a hypothetical enlightened guy who kills a deer and rapes
another man's wife. On the one hand, everything is perfect as it is. On the
other hand, those who protest or intervene when the flow of things seems
headed in a downward spiral are part of the perfection too. They aren't
somehow outside the wholeness of the universe.

Angelique wrote:
<< I love you, El.. :) I'd love to clear the blockages, but you won't let
anybody near them. You protect them like a prize pig.>>

Oh, mercy, don't take my blockages. I need my blockages, Mystress! I use
them to insulate our windows in winter... You can clean up my backyard if
you're really ambitious, though it's in even worse shape than my blockages.
You can even have my flotsom collection if you're weird enough to want it.
But I must ask that you stay away from my wreckage and ruins. I'm filming
them for a documentary piece called "A Wasted Life: The Shame and the Pity."

And whatever you do, please, please, pulllleeeezzeee don't step on my blue
suede shoes. They're even more precious than my prize pig because ELVIS WORE
THEM. The King himself. And now they're mine. Mine, I tell you, mine mine
mine. Don't touch 'em. Get back, I say. You cannot have 'em, they're only
for me, for me me me me me me me me me me me.....

Ouuuhhhhh cough gasp choke.... oh gawd, look what you made me do now. I
coughed up a blockage, eeuuuwwww.




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