To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/19 21:44
Subject: Re: [K-list] Conny Larsson's Story on Sai Baba.
From: Joe Markel
On 2000/01/19 21:44, Joe Markel posted thus to the K-list:
From: Joe Markel <moshiachATnospamnauticom.net>
Even if one is to accept homosexual behavior as non deviant, the sexual advances
of a superior to a vulnerable inferior is reprehensible.
So even if the advances were towards women rather than men, it would be just as
bad.
I think that's what all the noise was in the Clinton - Monica relationship.
However Clinton did not claim to be a spiritual leader so many overlooked his
mischief.
In one who claims to be a spiritual leader, this type of behavior is inexusable
and definitely shows that the man is a charlatan.
Wim Borsboom wrote:
> From: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>
> Dear Tony and Jerry,
>
> Although I very much agree with the observations of Jerry and Tony about Sai
> Baba...still... one cannot second-guess a guru, not even a Sai Baba.
> If this were Greece during the time of Socrates, or even.... if this were
> Judea during the time of Jesus with its very strong Hellenistic influences,
> we would hardly make 'this deviant behaviour' a point at all. Also we should
> not forget that many of the practices that we find in our western eyes less
> acceptable, in India they are not seen in that light at all. Sexual
> practices are not as morally tainted as in our 'morally correct society'.
> And... Kundalini is initially foremostly about sexuality... Leadbeater of
> the Theosophical Society, who in my estimation was one of the best Western
> clairvoyants ever, experimented with this as well, there were homosexual
> allegations against him, not strange in the England of his days. Sure the
> 'young boys' syndrome is hard to come to grips with, and as I wrote in a
> previous post, I was myself so close to such manipulative behaviour, thank
> God for the guardian angels who protected the little beings and myself (If I
> may say it that way). Still, and I have been the recipient of sexual
> molestation in early childhood by a catholic pastor, an uncle, gym teacher
> and a Trappist monk when I was older (the pastor, when he died, was deemed
> to be a saint by the parishioners) still, in retrospect with the appropriate
> guidance and counselling and the help of the graces of Kundalini I have
> overcome all that and am what I am now... which if you know me is not
> little... my gratitude for the divine graces and and my gratitude to be
> alive now in THIS day and age increases daily.
> I have seen and done too much maybe to be judgmental about any of this, the
> Buddha's compassion is indeed limitless. I understand and appreciate how you
> qualify your remarks, Jerry, about sexual deviations, I am not a sexual
> deviant, although as I have said above, I have been so very close to it,
> even as a one-time guru years ago, in a guru-devotee relationship (hahaha,
> my glorious past!)
> But really, guru types are intelligent, charismatic and... very clever
> people and I do not mean this negatively. The grand overview of reality that
> gurus have is indeed astonishing and within that view there are no
> deviations... it actually all fits in neatly and it works in the long
> view... It is hard to talk about this without an invitation that you might
> find some conceit in me... but then... if so, then it be so.
> About materializations, I have been close to that... even experimented
> successfully with it a bit outside normal human observations... but found it
> to be manipulative to the extreme... and in the long view not economical as
> far as energy expenditure is concerned. I forget the instance now, but one
> of my earlier students (haha) attests to such materialization, which I had
> to admit to him, took place... But so what... he did not profit from that at
> all, except maybe for the fact that it was a fascination for him on a dead
> end street corner.
> Yes, beware of materializations and flying gurus and people who walk on
> water... now there is another story (hehehe).
>
> Love,
> Wim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com <GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com>
> To: Kundalini-GatewayATnospamonelist.com <Kundalini-GatewayATnospamonelist.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [K-list] Conny Larsson's Story on Sai Baba.
>
> >From: GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 1/19/00 6:28:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com writes:
> >
> ><<
> > l must have missed a previous post by Tony in which he informed
> the
> > list of his changed feelings about Sai Baba. l wish to thank him for
> giving
> > this to the list and applaud him for recognizing the truth about this
> > charlatan. This story confirms the importance of exposing false teachers
> who
> > are far from what they pretend to be. lt's staggering to think that this
> > sexual deviant is still being worshipped by millions of deceived people
> all
> > over the world and that fortunes continue to be amassed in his name.
> >
> >
> >
> > jerry
> > >>
> >
> > As soon as l sent this to the list l realized that my usage of the
> >term "sexual deviant" might offend someone, so let me be clear that l was
> >referring not to Sai Baba's sexual activity per se, but rather the usage of
> >this activity by a spiritual teacher on a student. l am not judging this
> type
> >of sexual activity between two private parties. For those who didn't read
> the
> >story, it referred to Sai Baba's grabbing the penises of male devotees in
> >order to gratify himself, all the while claiming (incredibly) that this had
> >to do with his raising their kundalini. Mention was also made,
> incidentally,
> >of his faking materializations. Stories of this kind have been out there
> for
> >years, but judging from the number of disciples still being fooled, they
> >still need to be told.
> >
> > jerry
> >
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