To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/17 03:19
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Adam and Eve (Ecstatic Communion)
From: Marion Hanvey
On 1999/12/17 03:19, Marion Hanvey posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Wim,
Felt so angry when I read your post about the inadequate little creep who
reduced your wife to tears. And if anyone thinks that's being judgemental,
tough! Somebody's probably upset him along the line and he's recovered
enough to pass the misery on. You had a gut feeling something about him
didn't ring true. That's your intuition sussing him out, always follow your
intuition it'll never let you down.
Last night I went to a psychic development class and this budding psychic
said "you have knowledge you don't pass on, let it out, if it's only drop by
drop." I thought, "What are you talking about?"
This morning I remembered some knowledge I hadn't passed on, at least not to
this list. If you have unresolved rubbish in your life there is a great
technique called Sudarshan Kriya which gets rid of it. If it goes very deep
(the rubbish) it might not go at once, but this will help. It's better than
psychotherapy, that just stirs the rubbish up so you keep remembering it.
It's taught by Art of Living. There is a website for it on the internet.
www.artofliving.org
The website tells you about courses, when the technique is taught. There
are loads of courses going on in America and Canada. I know you've said you
live in Canada Wim, and I know Canada is a big place(not like li'l old
England which seems big to us but probably seems like toytown to you) but
there might be a course going on near you.
It's not a cult, (I've got an inbuilt repulsion to cults, I think "Oh yeah,
prove you know more than me!")(intuition)
The basic course costs £80. I don't know what that is in dollars.
And the techniques taught don't interfere with any other practises you might
be doing.
On another point -but related in a way- anyone who thinks you have to crush
the ego has got hold of the wrong end of the stick. There is no such thing
as crushing the ego. Ego just means I am. Of course you are. Everybody
is. Ego is necessary for survival in this material world. That old saying
cognito ergo sum-I think therefore I am- I would turn round and say "I am
therefore I think"
I think all the misconceptions about crushing the ego come because most
people think of ego as trying to score over others or impress others,
because you feel small inside and you're trying to make yourself appear
great.
You cannot crush the personality. What you do with ego is transcend it, not
crush it, but that has to come from a point of peace. Peace is the basis.
And you still never get rid of the personality anyway, you can't. You just
become more loving; a less selfish, wiser person.
Sorry to bang on. (And I'm scared to look at my phone bill, it came 5 days
ago I've just left it lying there unopened)
Thanks to everyone for the opinions about my legs. (might be k, might not)
Gut feeling tells me to de-tox, which I will do after the party season is
over. Also definitely give up cigs.(Which I will do after the party season
is over, with the help of nicotine patches)
Lots of love
Loulou
>From: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>Reply-To: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>To: "Larry Schmitz" <ATnospamcentroin.com.brATnospamsalmon.esosoft.net>
>CC: <kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
>Subject: [K-list] Re: Adam and Eve (Ecstatic Communion)
>Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:46:07 -0800
>
>Dear Larry and list,
>Am so glad to hear from you again. As I wrote to you before, whatever I
>write, I always have you in mind. Not surprised that (and how) you follow
>up
>on one of my previous posts. So glad I can tie in some of my latest
>conclusions with your recent experience.
>This may become quite a lengthy post...
>
>You wrote:
> >....the process described by Wim
>(the cerebro spinal fluid/nectar connection)
> >I have also experienced many times..
>
> >However, last night, I had a new experience
> >...my own energy wasn't involved
> >at all...it was all from gaia...thru
> >the bottom of the feet...gradual
> >build-up until release thru the crown.
>
>Later on in this post I would like to pull up an ancient memory of mine
>about which I wrote in a previous post. That post did not generate any
>reaction at all. Not that I wrote about that memory with that purpose
>(reaction) in mind, but then...why do I write...? Yes indeed, why do we
>write???
>
>Now, I am fully aware that some of what I will write about will go against
>the grain of many established, almost axiomatic beliefs, some beliefs that
>even non religious, non Christian, non theistic ppl., non believers (ha!)
>hold without being aware of it.
>
>I just put the following out there as an example. Not that I think it is
>that significant for all readers. Not that the healing (hurting really) it
>describes is typical for many healers. BTW the healer who is being referred
>to in this occurrence is quite well known and respected. Also I do not
>write
>this to disrespect this person, I know enough about the healing
>functionality to not second guess methods and efficacy too much. So please
>do not take me wrong. Also in what I write I undoubtedly show some of my
>shortcomings re judgement... please bear with me, am working on it. What is
>clear from my account is that healing in the "new agey" world is quite
>muddled up and stained with some totally outdated judgement structures:
>guilt, blame, a strange form of forgiveness etc.
>There is a lot of hurting being done in the "new agey" healing field. Very
>comparable to what happened after Jesus passed away.
>
>First my experience of a few evenings ago. Emmy, Michelle and myself are at
>a birthday party where there are some very neat and fantastic ppl. Amongst
>them is an interesting, sweet man who, we later find out, is a person who
>helps his clients through *past* life/lives regression, to get in touch
>with
>and handle their *current* life problems.
>Also, (seriously, I am amazed) this man says all the right things,
>pretty well identical conclusions to life's more mysterious aspects as I
>have figured out. "A radical philosopher!" I say, but..., but 'but' keeps
>popping up.
>"No, no, no..." I keep saying to myself, "I think he is allright..., I
>think
>he is OK..."
>"Why am I saying that," I wonder, "there is something in and about him
>that ticks me off", something disturbs me deeply about him. The three of us
>and that gentlemen eventually get together and he, rather uninvitedly
>(which
>was kind-o'-OK with me) starts working on Michelle, who by the way is
>quite aware of the foilbles that life has been throwing her and who is
>uncannily able to manage her own self-reintegration in a very orderly and
>planned manner. The path she is walking on is very straight and clear.
>(Must
>be Kundalini..., is Kundalini... :-) He is prodding and pushing and
>rattling
>her chain. She is unperturbed, there is something she is protecting, but it
>is not the kind of protection that an *insecure* person throws around him
>or
>herself. Something very authentic about her must not be touched. As his
>prodding goes on about Michelle's relationship to her mother, Emmy,
>my wife, is getting very involved with and touched by what the man brings
>up.
>Emmy is definitely getting keyed in by some of the pronouncements that come
>from his direction, she is getting teary eyed... ... ... then he strikes...
>He
>switches from one 'prey' to the other (I say this now in retrospect, as I
>was
>just flabbergasted at that moment, observing what I was observing.) The man
>now prods my wife about her mother... Oh yes, there is stuff there no
>doubt,
>this man is very intuitive... There are wounds there, no mistake about
>that,
>healing wounds though, not to be picked at, lest... ... But he is
>picking.... He
>asks her, (I am selecting some sentences here.) "How do you feel about
>your
>mom? Did you hurt her when you were young? Yes? Do you feel responsible for
>her pain in life? Also her pain, giving birth to you? Do you want to ask
>for
>forgiveness...? Emmy interjects, putting fragile sentences together...
>tentative but worth trying... this will bring her strength: "I always
>wondered whether I was wanted. Whether I should have been born..., a
>girl...
>So many
>daughters and my father needed another boy for on the farm. Did she
>love me, was I appreciated... She blamed me for what I was. Did my mom
>really love me? I always wondered. Did she *really* love me?" Emmy is
>sobbing now...some relief is setting in... My dad also, he always..."
>sobbing again, wiping off tears, trying to breath as well. Then the man
>interrupts, insistingly, breaking off Emmy's train of liberating
>formulations. "We will deal with your father later!" he almost bites the
>words, "You caused your mother so much pain..., you want to ask her for
>forgiveness." He is able, (this man is persistent) to make her repeat after
>him, (Emmy is weeping by now, shaking and shivering, her freedom fight
>having turned into defeat) "Mom, will you please forgive me?" In fact, he
>has her saying this to Michelle, she has to look Michelle into the eyes.
>(Is he thinking something to the effect that Michelle, who was born just
>after
>Emmy's mother's death, that Michelle is Emmy's
>mother-come-back-into-her-life... now as a close friend whom we have taken
>into our life?)
>Alarm bells start going off in my ears. I know, I am sceptical about this
>concept, but I am also genuinely disturbed, something is out of kilter
>here.
>Some energy reversal is taking place, this is not the flow of energy that
>Emmy is used to in her recent years self re-origination... There is no
>doubt
>that there is quite a release of energy here. Emmy's throat just opens up,
>the lump that was there upon starting this 'bit of treatment' is now gone,
>an immense
>amount of energy is passing through her crown, her head is shaking back and
>forth.
>"Isn't this miraculous etc... etc...?" There is an audience now,
>'comforting' Emmy.
>But..., but..., something is awry... I am reminded of the public
>confessions
>we had to do in the monastery when I was a young Trappist monk.
>The man, satisfied, (gloating?) sits in an easy chair. I wonder..., am I
>judging him, jealous maybe... I am flabbergasted, at a loss, did I leave my
>wife in the claws of a wolf? Did I just sit idly by?
>It takes Emmy, Michelle and me a full day to analyse what went wrong. The
>flow of her healing energy has reversed, the self incrimination is so
>painful, she is
>eventually so close to giving up on life. She contemplates her unworthiness
>to live, contemplates suicide.
>This thing has happened before about 23 years ago, when Emmy was,
>unbeknownst to her, pregnant of Emanuel our son. Somebody, then also,
>attempted to load guilt upon her, after a fabulous experience of realizing
>the divine within, Emanuel, God immanent, the human/divine.
>*Something about guilt, this eternal guilt...* Are children responsible for
>the pain they cause? It must be more complex than that. The guilt, the self
>incrimination, the defilement of sexuality, the flesh, carnality, the
>deficiencies, shortcomings,
>sinfulness, uncleanliness of conception.
>It becomes clear to her, under duress she was forced to reverse roles: "How
>is a child to be blamed? Why should a child be forced to ask for
>forgiveness? How can humans be forced to ask for forgiveness? Anything
>negative cannot come from the inside..., negativity is externally brought
>about...!!!"
>
>It is allowed, (obligatory I say) to look for the cause of inadequacies
>externally... self incrimination is not right, is universally illegal,
>against divine nature...
>
>"Wim," she asks me, "tell me again of your memory of what happened to us so
>many thousands of years ago in Eden?"
>
>Please, take me serious in what follows.
>(In fact a partial reprint of a previous post.)
>This is not about some kind of vision that one gets
>after ingestion of too much of this or that.
>I have been blessed by many graces, God is good to me. I have been
>able overcome so many tragedies, the Holy Spirit has been so miraculously
>relevant in my life. Give me at least the benefit of the doubt, your ear.
>What I remember of what happened in Eden, what happened r-e-a-l-l-y, should
>give quite a twist to the lack of self-appreciation that we as mankind have
>been so terribly made to suffer from. Even us, list ppl, so much children
>of
>this 'new age' of SELF recovery, (however we describe and qualify that)
>have
>been exposed to this wrongful curse of self incrimination. Some old
>out-dated moral self-blame has infiltrated our story of hope, truth and
>love. We create our own pain? Nonsense!!!. We choose our own parents?
>Nonsense!!! We project onto others what we cannot deal with within
>ourselves? Nonsense!!! We create our own fate and misery? It does not work
>that way.
>What I found out, needs to be told... Who I am? Does that matter? What
>matters is that "one finds out that one is", and my revelation can make a
>difference in that recovery
>I am taking the risk of being who I am, and it is no sweat being that.
>
>My life has been about this eternal pondering of truth. I could not and
>never accept the inkling of the belief that we are born inadequate. My
>story
>is part of an answer... to what question? Whatever that question is (we
>will
>get to that later), the question should never have been there in the first
>place...
>Question? Q_U_E_S_T_I_O_N ?
>Is not a question by itself THE overture to illusion.
>How is it possible that we can NOT know.
>Nature is NOT like that.
>How have we been prevented to use creative imagination properly so that it
>turned into speculative illusion?
>When the questioning stops... creative reality only.
>Cogito ergo sum
>Knowing/Being
>
>There is an AHA in there somewhere!
>
>Larry wrote:
> >...my own energy wasn't involved
> >at all...it was all from gaia...thru
> >the bottom of the feet...gradual
> >build-up until release thru the crown.
>
>Adam´s Memories
>
>My memories of Adam while he was on an expedition to find out what the
>desert was really like. Finding out if the stories that snakes kill you if
>you leave the safety of the compounds in the hills are really true. Was
>that
>just fear-mongering to prevent us from abandoning the tribal compounds? Why
>were we not allowed to venture down into that hazy river valley?
>After all these thousands of years, I still don't understand my father's
>fear, the memory of this god (as he is now remembered) still instils fear
>and almost guarantees damnation over the promise of freedom. Why did he in
>those days insist we needed to always stay hunter/gatherers? We would do
>all
>right, my mate/partner and me, with our new approach to cultivate and
>refine
>the plants and fruits in the valley. Why was utopia, just as it is in these
>days, frowned upon? Are we so scared to be free?
>This father of ours was not to be a very good god, as he operated by
>instilling fear, judgment and punishment. His memory still persist in
>religious approaches that deal with death and judgment and freedom only...
>if you give up your freedom in the name of belief, faith and dependence.
>We (me and partner Eve as she is called now in scriptures and commentaries)
>went back one day to the tribal compound to tell everyone about the lack of
>danger down in the valley and beyond, about the wonderful growing methods
>that we had discovered and applied, about our discovery of immortality and
>the illusion of death, about the cosmic and universal knowledge of the
>divine within and without. Humans could be such wonderful beings if we
>could
>just trust our cosmic heritage instead of our limited tribal pride and
>history so based on the hatred of others.
>Only the old "Wise Guy", as we called him, understood us. He had explained
>to us that the most important part of our body was our spine. He did not
>use
>that word, he used the words 'serpent bones' or 'snake bones', reminding us
>that our skeleton was held upright by those bones that looked like the
>bones
>of dead serpents. “Within the ‘snake bones´ was our energy,” he said, “Keep
>those bones right and you will forever be right.” He also told us that we
>could cast off fear and illusion like the snake casts off its skin, we
>could
>be reborn, start again clean. Who believed him? Didn't we all sooner or
>later develop hunched backs and had aches and pains. “We are like that,”
>most of us said. “We fit our graves way better that way,” some of us joked.
>
>I told the tribal members, of this one morning that I left my Eve (she was
>harvesting fruit,) to venture off into the desert. Down in the valley it
>was
>always hazy, but once I got higher up the sun was blazingly hot. The bushes
>were very prickly and dried out, rather grey and wide apart, almost waist
>high. The orange/yellow/grey dirt was quite packed, I hardly left
>footprints
>in it. Then.... from underneath one of the rocks or bushes, I don't know,
>slithered this viper towards me, it was no more than about a foot long,
>even
>less, rather sandy coloured. I remembered my dad's warning, the impending
>death, but I did not believe it, I had no reason for fear. Did this animal
>know I meant danger, why would it kill me? I would not kill it. I became
>quite light-hearted, light-bodied even and it was as though I was lifting
>myself off the ground as the viper curvily went its way forward below my
>feet, surely never even having noticed me. I was not amazed, it was so
>self-evident to me that fear would have been more dangerous than some
>happenstance moment of reality in which there was a slight chance of a
>possible physical encounter with again another slight chance of some form
>of
>attack. If anything I was to be feared more by the viper than I by the
>viper.
>I tumbled over these confused thoughts and eventually I regained my footing
>on the soil...surprisingly strongly. I felt I had overcome something of an
>historical impact. I stood so straight, so erect, so strong, my head
>carried
>so proudly by my 'serpent bones'. I was so aware of my erect spine. A flash
>of knowledge went through me, as though strait from the deepest depth of
>the
>earth, up through my back and into my head. It got stuck there for a short
>span of time and I did get the strong sensation of being deeply rooted in
>the earth like strong healthy tree. All of a sudden it was as though from
>my
>head up I shot off these powerful branches of lightning and.... floating
>within these branches was a multifaceted, many spiked crystalline form,
>whirling and buzzing and throwing off these scintillating colours. Than
>that
>form descended into my head, it fitted so neatly and I started feeling so
>vibrantly blissful.
>
>Interruption
>
>Here my reliving of this fantastic event from thousands of years ago in
>that
>place now called Eden, was interrupted briefly and I almost shouted in my
>Dutch mother-tongue, "Star of David!... And I saw clearly that what we call
>devil is an illusive personification of evil, which is, in its turn, the
>illusion of malevolent power that brings about the illusion of dependence,
>fear and suffering. Illusion cannot stand reality, truth and freedom. It is
>fear-mongers and power abusers who make the illusion of fear appear as more
>real then the reality of truth. Threats to life and property, they use.
>Threats they do not want follow up on lest they lose their prey to
>eternity.
>A year before this memory, while I was vacationing in San Gimignano in
>Italy, these same words had come to me after some six hours of ecstasy
>which
>eventually, a week later, resulted in my temporary death and return to
>life.
>
>Back to the Memory
>
>Slowly, after the crystalline form had radiated off its glorious bliss
>within me, unity/wholeness became evident in me; I could not think in a in
>a
>
>fracturing analytical way anymore. It became evident to me that the
>distinction of good versus bad was flawed thinking. Indeed, that all
>opposites... any kind of opposites do not exist in reality but in the
>conceptualizing mind. Opposites have no reality in nature, the distinction
>is physically absurd and unsound. Opposite-ness is inadequate, unworkable
>to
>use for the understanding of life, love and truth. I saw forebodings and
>visualizations of something that we would later name gauge fields.
>I, Adam - philosopher, together with my mate - inventors, we shall develop
>agriculture, irrigation and a new human integration of love, and
>unquestioned security with each other. We shall unlimit our creativity, we
>shall rejoin the divine with the human. The divine and the human, those
>characteristics are not mutually exclusive, indeed they are necessarily
>inclusive of each other, they are not separate and opposing functionalities
>that attract or fend off. Fear and faith are also not to be
>incomprehensibly
>united. Love and truth characterize integral unity in reality.
>Is death the opposite of life? That is impossible. Death by definition is
>non-existence, it does not exist, how can it then possibly be an opposite.
>Death happens only in the eye of the observer who treats it as
>real... the observation of an outsider, a non-participant in that momentous
>event that goes by the name of 'death'. The observer is not the subject of
>transition...
>And then it became crystal clear. We are one eternal and omnipresent
>reality
>focused and concentrated in this moment. And I felt that my spine was like
>an enormously powerful tree trunk, concentrating and condensing all the
>communications between anything and anywhere and anytime. And I sprouted
>enormously in all directions.
>
>Interruption
>
>Here again my reliving of this fantastic event from thousands of years ago
>in Eden, was interrupted briefly and again I almost shouted in my
>mother-tongue, "Tree of Jesse, tree that depicts eternal life, all
>encompassing intermingling of multi-dimensional webs of reciprocal
>relationships." and I remembered one of Hildegard von Bingen's visions.
>
>Back to the Memory
>
>I thought of my partner in the orchard collecting the fruit, and instantly
>I
>was with her, and I knew that she simultaneously with me had gone through
>identical realizations. We were indeed now free of tribal ties, untouchable
>by fear and malevolent power, inviolate by sin or guilt. These illusive
>concepts had lost all their seeming reality...
>Shall we tell the others? We enthusiastically returned to the tribe's
>compound in the hills, related our discoveries to the Wise Guy who was not
>at all surprised as he had foreseen our endeavour's realizations as
>inevitable. We related our discoveries to our brothers and sisters and the
>children, two of which came with us, one of whom would attempt to sabotage
>our methods and who would kill his successful brother. We related our
>discoveries to our parents who blamed each other for bringing forth such
>offspring as we were. We were excommunicated from the tribe as they set up
>watch so we could not ever return. Eden was luckily safe as we lived on....
>
>Our stories were terribly miscommunicated, mistranslated and misunderstood,
>becoming lies in the oral and written traditions of envious god/ancestors
>who could not love and let live. They punished instead with death,
>damnation
>and the perennial ceremonial hand-downs of blame and guilt...
>We shall set them free... as we will free all our offspring from the blame
>of having been forced to live under the power of illusion, original sin',
>the handed-down guilt and pronouncement of inadequacy.
>
>So much love and freedom,
>Wim
>
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