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To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/16 17:52
Subject: suffering
From: peter j bolton

On 1999/12/16 17:52, peter j bolton posted thus to the K-list:

On 16 Dec 99, at 10:54, Marion Hanvey wrote:

Buddha said that desire was the key to all suffering.... he was both
right and wrong.
desire is the inherent drive the keeps man in process through time
and into the evolution continuum. it also keeps him breathing.

Right: Current perception
what causes the suffering is the abuse, misunderstanding and
misuse of the emotions. An Oohaah, geewiz attitude to love and

wrong: the evolving perception
Our tools of 'sin' are our greatest weapons of strength; understand
them, get an attitude of respect for all life and evolve, i.e. get out of
the suffering preference.

just as a misused gun kills; misused totally intelligence also kills
and causes sufferering.

if you want to suffer, wallow in it;
if you don't, evolve and get on with the love of life.
the life force is in everyone as is the potential of total intelligence.

> Dear El
> Who is Dennis Miller?
> Re your letter. Of course pain and suffering exist, to pretend
> otherwise is ridiculous. When people say pain exists but suffering
> does not exist, my understanding of this is that after the actual
> cause of the pain is past, people (well I do anyway)tend to hold on to
> bitterness and "life's bloody not fair why did this have to happen to
> me? What did I ever do to anyone, I only tried to do good" So the
> mind goes over and over it, like chewing gum, hanging on to it, not
> letting go. So at that point the suffering is an illusion because by
> then you're doing it to your own self. So you extend the pain, the
> length of suffering with your own mind, your own thoughts. Love Loulou
> >From: CKRESSATnospamaol.com
> >Reply-To: CKRESSATnospamaol.com
> >To: KundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
> >Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
> >Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:57:49 EST
> >
> >In a message dated 12/14/99 9:24:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> >aurasphereATnospamhome.com writes:
> >
> ><< I understand your post well, El, understand me as well. You will
> >not hear me
> > say ever: "There is no suffering!" but I will forever say that:
> >"Suffering
> > is illusion and illusion is suffering." Have written about that
> > plenty a time now.>>
> >
> >This is another of the recurring themes/arguments on list: the
> >validity of pain, suffering and fear. Most of us are probably agreed
> >that these are undesirable experiences which we'd gladly eliminate
> >from our lives if we could.
> >
> >There are levels of consciousness in which pain, fear, etc. are
> >experienced differently or not at all. For instance, in my 6 week
> >energy field state, there was no fear whatsoever. Once, I accidently
> >(?) slammed my foot against a table, resulting in a swollen, black
> >and blue toe that throbbed for days. In the energy field state, the
> >pain was experienced as just another feature in the landscape --
> >intense, but not personally disturbing.
> >
> >Some people extract perceptual realities from one level and try to
> >impose them on another. It's analogous to an adult declaring to an
> >infant, "Hey, quit laying around helpless in your crib and go get a
> >job. I did it, and so can you." Or someone in peak condition in
> >their twenties marching into a nursing home and prevailing upon the
> >elderly residents to cast aside their wheelchairs and start training
> >for the Olympics. Well intentioned, perhaps, but really badly-timed
> >advice. You can spend your life leaning over the pond exhorting to
> >the fish: "Gills are history. Grow lungs!" Unless their biological
> >clocks are geared to click into evolution mode, they aren't likely to
> >leap onto dry land and declare, "Thanks for the tip, Baba. Breathing
> > air is soooo kewel!"
> >
> ><< Pain is pain, pain is not illusion. Suffering is illusion. The
> >body (brain)
> > has a way of dealing with pain (ask Angelique).>>
> >
> >With all due respect to Angelique, the kind of "torture" that occurs
> >in S&M is consensual and contained within safe limits. If she were
> >inflicting the kind of pain on her slaves that I've experienced,
> >where they wound up bedridden in agony for two years straight and in
> >chronic, disabling pain thereafter, she'd be facing lawsuits up the
> >wazoo. It's true that in the most extreme pain, the mind blanks --
> >the person loses consciousness or otherwise disassociates from the
> >body. But this is only temporary. One returns to the damaged,
> >pain-wracked body and most people experience suffering with this.
> >
> >You are where you are, and being told that what you feel is unreal
> >does nothing but deny the truth of your experiences. Most of us have
> >been so socially indoctrinated already that we are barely able to
> >trust what our own hearts, minds and senses tell us. We don't need
> >instruction on how to become even more self-alienated.
> >
> >If someone wants to talk about how they've managed to transcend pain
> >and fear and suffering, fine. I have nothing against acknowledging
> >that there are other possibilities, other perceptions of reality.
> >And for those who haven't yet experienced that firsthand, it can be
> >welcome news to learn that vulnerability and struggle isn't all there
> >is. But at times when it's taking all your strength and attention to
> >process the experiences you're having, the last thing you need is
> >someone on the sidelines dismissively redefining your reality for
> >you.
> >
> >"But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong"
> >(Dennis-Miller-false-humility closing line).
> >
> >El
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

peter j bolton


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