Recieved: 1999/12/13 16:34
Subject: Re: [K-list] judgement or enquiry
From: Marion Hanvey
On 1999/12/13 16:34, Marion Hanvey posted thus to the K-list:
Don't you think that all the main religions of the world are outmoded?
They're all too old. Thousands of years old. It's like the spiritual
essence which motivated them has gone and that all that's left are the
rituals. (With maybe the exception of shamanism, which seems to be a
do-it-yourself religion with no priests keeping knowledge for themselves and
telling the masses what to do, and also Hinduism with it's guru
tradition)(The last may be my own personal bias, but there you are.)
>From: "peter j bolton" <peterboltonATnospamsuperconsciousness.org>
>Reply-To: "peter j bolton" <peterboltonATnospamsuperconsciousness.org>
>Subject: Re: [K-list] judgement or enquiry
>Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:53:14 +0800
>On 10 Dec 99, at 22:59, CKRESSATnospamaol.com wrote:
>and so you should listen to the counsel of your heart.
>I think that i didn't say that which you refer to clearly; i apologize.
>enquire into everything and keep an open mind,
>don't accept anything and
>don't be too eager to judge unless you have all the facts.
>By 'judge' i mean being judgemental and/or definition beyond
>of having all the facts: in the matter of religion as a capacity of
>man, I doubt if any man has all the facts. It then follows that more
>enquiry is usually necessary. I am not an advocate of blind faith,
>true believerism or cults. Each Man/Woman is unique and is to be
>and the question as to what religion is; it should be examined in
>depth and detail with the full scope of resources that man has
>please don't interpret 'judge' in the same reference as 'weigh',
>'consider' or compare.
> > In a message dated 12/10/1999 5:21:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > peterboltonATnospamsuperconsciousness.org writes:
> > > > However, I disagree on judging them by the fruit they bear...
> > > > William
> > > > James thinks that religion must be judged by its fruits, but I
> > > > think they should not be judged at all. True religion (of which
> > > > Samadhi is IMO a part, even if it's not a necessity) can't be
> > > > judged, graded or dissected.
> > > >
> > > Being judgemental suggests that one has *all* the facts of the
> > > matter at hand and one stands on an independant platform;
> > > attributes that very few - if any - bear. But religion, as a force
> > > or capacity available to intelligent man as a direct result of
> > > being a creation of intelligence within a closed system with no
> > > obvious evidence of outside intervention, suggests to that it is an
> > > event horizon for enquiry for both philosophical and scientific
> > > criterea. It is a part of us and who really are we if we don't know
> > > what we are? respect peter
> > Say what?
> > Even to say that spiritual experience and religion shouldn't be judged
> > is a judgment. A lot of the specious mental-gymnastic-double-talk
> > that fuels esotericults is built around the
> > you-don't-know-enough-to-judge-what-I'm-saying precept (just as it
> > keeps the fundamentalist followers from rocking the boat by asking
> > questions).
> > Hey, do what thou wilt. Turn off your mind and float downstream... or
> > into the local septic tank, whichever way the flow takes you. Call me
> > a fool or an ego-ramus, but I'm listening to the counsel of my heart
> > before I dive in the water.
>listen and decide what you will; there is no judgement inferred here?
> > El
>peter j bolton
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