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To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/10/02 10:23
Subject: Re: [K-list] Nature, Lucifer, and hell
From: Jon-Carl Lewis


On 1999/10/02 10:23, Jon-Carl Lewis posted thus to the K-list:

Greece had an eternal hell.

It was a one-shot, good or bad, up or down thing.

There was no cycle of life and death - at least not until Dionysus and Adonis (Eastern and foreign deities even to the Greeks).

I think that Christianity is mostly Greek, of a particular school of Greek thought at a particular time.

They didn't like things messy so they divided up the world: heaven hell, male female, good bad, earth spirit. It's all Greek thought -- which Paul knew very very well. He wasn't a Palestinian Jew at all, he was a Greek Jew, a Hellenized Jew.

And the Hellenic world was totally in love with dichotomies at the time.

No wonder they had such a struggle with the Eastern Church whose folks were more open to cycles of existence and the goodness of creation and the easy relationship between spirit and flesh.

I like the Greeks, but I hate them for this dichotomous legacy which has become the dominant paradigm of Western culture.

Of, course, the Greeks gave us Eros and Dionysus and Adonis / Tammuz also (in the West) so perhaps we could just go back and choose that thread instead.

Time for my nap.

Jon-Carl Lewis

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 10/2/1999 at 1:18 PM KungaJigmeATnospamaol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 10/2/99 9:46:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jclATnospamswcp.com
>writes:
>
><< Satan is a Christian deity. Islamic, too. He's an amalgam of some stouyff
>borrowed from the Hebrew tradition, the Greeks (who gave us Hell as we know
>it) and little old Loki from up north in Norselaw.
>
> Satan's about a Christian a God as you can get. >>
>
>Now this gets interesting. As a Buddhist I recognize "gods" as one of the
>realms of existence and, personally, am rather in agreement with what you
>say.
>
>>From inside the Christian mythos, as I understand it, Lucifer was created by
>the one deity. When he rebelled against that deity he became Satan, a
>corruption of the Arabic Shai-tan, meaning adversary.
>
>Being that Lucifer is considered, within the Christian mythos, an angel and a
>creation makes me place recognize him as more of a Deva than a god, perhaps
>somehow becoming an Asura (demigod) and thus "falling."
>
>The interesting question, to my mind, is: if Lucifer is a "Christian god"
>then what of Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, and the rest of the angelic host?
>Would they not then also be gods?
>
>As to the Greeks, I do not know when they handed us their hell, so to speak,
>but of the 1000+ hells of Tibetan Buddhism a few seem similar except, of
>course, that none are eternal!
>
>Sarva Mangalam!
>~James

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