To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/07/30 08:57
Subject: [K-list] Is the cave necessary ? Was: celibacy
From: A. Erhart
On 1999/07/30 08:57, A. Erhart posted thus to the K-list:
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:19:49 Shy Person wrote:
David:
>>For the enlightened one
>>there are no extremes.
Jill:
>Yeah, maybe I should have said, so is the goal of enlightenment. I was
>thinking of how I have struggled with Gandhi's rigorous ideas of
>asceticism, experiencing/viewing as he did, spiritual progress in direct
>relation to rigor of means.
Jill, it's very interesting you should mention just that.
I have just read about a female Buddhist nun born
in Britain (Unfortunately, I don't remember her name.
Ppl on this list may have read her book, it's called
"I give you my life".) who determined to reach
enlightenment in one life time and in a female body
spent 12 years in a cave in the Tibetan mountains
to meditate and reach enlightenment.
I must admit being a little surprised at this method.
I do not see, from having read about ascetics and
mystics of different traditions, that there necessarily
is a relationship between as you say progress and rigor
of means. I have thought much about this.
The Dalai Lama has said that ppl in the West, because
of our technology and background expect fast results,
want immediate enlightenment. I can definitely see his
point, yet I can also see how a very strict regimen
(from an unenlightened person's point of view of course)
of spiritual exercises actually could be negative
for spiritual development, i.e. agree with Buddha's
views that ascetic exercises were as much about
attachment as the life of a hedonist.
Patanjali also says something along the same lines,
that "yoga is not for one who always sleep or never
rests" or something like that. But Patanjali also says
that it is the ppl who do not perform spiritual exercises which are the real renunciators, because
they renunciate spiritual perfection of the Self for
worldly goods.
And then you have the view as david presented
that for an enlightened
being, nothing would be extreme.
I must say that for the moment I am very unsure of
what to think. Maybe it is preferred not to think at
all. :)
I just have a suspicion grace plays some part in all
this. And that ppl have highly fluctuating definitions
of what they consider "extreme" or not.
I myself would have considered 4 hours of meditation
extreme some time ago. Maybe the bottom line goes down
to that one has to do what one feels right, personally
?
Just a few shared thoughts on a rainy afternoon.
Best regards,
Amanda.
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