1998/09/26 13:37
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #685
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 685
Today's Topics: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ Zarko Kecman ]
odd [ Ananda ] Re: Me again [ Danijel Turina ]
Re: Surrender key to empowerment [ nancy ] Re: Rik agrees Lobster looks more li [ Harsha ]
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ Anurag Goel ] Re: Rik agrees Lobster looks more li [ "Lobster" ]
Re: Re: The out-of-body deal. [ Antoine Carre ] Re: Re: Surrender key to empowerment [ YahseyesATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Re: Re: The out-of-body deal. [ YahseyesATnospamaol.com ] Re: Re: The out-of-body deal. [ "Evelyn Niedbalec"
To: GISLENNEATnospamaol.com CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I never ask you Gis. Did you ever surrender to the God your meditation
before you even start in asana. With all your hearth.
GISLENNEATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Hi All
> > you know, I have been unable to breath for two weeks now, in 1
> month I have > been in the Emergency room twice!! I am now on steroids to keep my
> lungs > open...
> I don't really care about the pain, IJUST DESIRE TO BREATH!!!!!!!!! >
> Everyday i feel as though in a few seconds i will end up on the Er > again, and
> I am afraid they will leave me in there, i can't afford that, i have 4 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:53:02 -0700
From: Ananda To: "kundalini people"
Subject: odd Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Love
The warts were appearing
because the blocks were lifting
The warts are just methaphors for something you are holding on to
a concept keeping you from joy
dis-ease is just the body attempting to heal
Lucious writes:::::
heres an odd one for you all.
i never made this connection until i read that edgar cayce said that most warts are caused by an imbalance, disruption, or blockage in out energy
patterns. when i first found k, long ago, i practised it often then started getting an unusual number of warts on my feet, and some on my
hands. then i read the thing by cayce, stopped using the k regularly, and not long after that they all disapeared. i came to the conclusion i was
causing these warts by trying to force k.
any thoughts?
Lucius
In Devotion to Love
I AM
Ananda
ICQ#15294231
home page:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/2610/
Œb0ATnospampost.metrolink.net>
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
<x-rich>Dear Love
The warts were appearing
because the blocks were lifting
The warts are just methaphors for something you are holding on to
a concept keeping you from joy
dis-ease is just the body attempting to heal
Lucious writes:::::
<smaller>heres an odd one for you all.
i never made this connection until i read that edgar cayce said that most
warts are caused by an imbalance, disruption, or blockage in out energy
patterns. when i first found k, long ago, i practised it often then
started getting an unusual number of warts on my feet, and some on my
hands. then i read the thing by cayce, stopped using the k regularly, and
not long after that they all disapeared. i came to the conclusion i was
causing these warts by trying to force k.
any thoughts?
Lucius
</smaller>
In Devotion to Love
I AM
Ananda
ICQ#15294231
home page:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/2610/
</x-rich>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:49:31 +0200
From: Danijel Turina <dturinaATnospamhempseed.com>
To: GISLENNEATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Me again
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980926154931.009cc7a0ATnospammustafa.hempseed.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:15 1998.09.26 EDT, GISLENNEATnospamaol.com wrote:
>Hi Jill
>
> I know what you mean, it is weird how one can cause blockages in certain
>areas of the body, I can't wait till my heart chackra or lungs become
>unblocked!! I have sooo much stored in there and I am tired of it, I know i
>did thid myself though and I do know for sure that i chose this life...I
>remember that much !!
> Here is waiting for Goddess/God to clear all of this up..
>
> Love you..Gis
Hi Gis, sorry for getting to you with such a delay, I was busy and I
couldn't keep up with the list.
I have a pretty good idea about what you're going through, I had some
rather unpleasant childhood experiences myself, very similar to yours, that
have caused some serious blocks and "detours" in the ways I used to think
and feel. The good news is that it isn't that difficult to clear. Since I
had lots of crap to clear & release, I had to invent some powerful stuff to
do it, as fast as possible. :)
One of those "techniques" is what I call "resonance". It is actually so
simple that I really don't know if it is to be considered a technique,
everybody does it all the time. You know how, when you cry, or sigh deeply,
you tend to make a "nnnnnn" nasal sound, when you exhale? And you release
emotions with it? It seems to be the emotional release valve that we have
built-in to release stress. Very effective, when I used to meditate, it was
enough to do ten or so deep resonant breaths to get rid of the surface
stress. At first I used to resonate a controlled mantra, and it works, the
"ommmmm" thing, but the real thing is to feel the stressful emotion when
you resonate, so it changes the pitch of the sound, it gets much higher,
which is exactly the thing people do when they cry - they release their
pain with the resonance. I felt that I should tell you about it, in spite
of knowing about your astma, and the fact that I mentally don't know how
resonance and astma get along, but my feeling tells me that it is the right
thing. I don't know, you should decide for yourself whether you should try
it or not.
Anyway, the "technique" is to re-live the emotional situations in your
mind, vividly, and cry them out, resonate out the emotions, and you do it
for as long at it takes - when the sound you resonate becomes deep and
steady, it means that you have released the emotional contents -
permanently; then you just find another disturbing event and repeat the
process. You simply feel your pain and let it out with a sound - cry it
out; don't repress the feelings, it is better to stimulete them, to get it
all out, all bits and pieces of it. It's as simple as it gets, and the most
effective thing that I know of; except the up-stream kriya, which goes
deeper, but can't handle powerful emotions, only unmanifested stuff.
Take care! :* :)
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:00:52 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: odd
Message-ID: <360CF38F.6155F0D3ATnospamwtp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Lucius wrote:
> most warts are caused by an imbalance, disruption, or blockage in out
> energy patterns.
What are you referring to when you say "out energy patterns?
This sounds very interesting. I also had plantars warts for many years.
No matter what I did they would always come back. So after a while, I
didn't worry about them too much. This past January, I decided that I
was ready to have perfect skin on my feet. I'm not sure what I changed
(obviously my thoughts), but presto, gone by March.
Nancy
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:27:32 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Surrender key to empowerment
Message-ID: <360CF9CF.3C02C301ATnospamwtp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
I just have to share another example of letting go and watching the
divine will have its way.
I belong to two Toastmasters speaking group. In one of the groups we
have experienced a loss of membership. Not a good thing for a group like
this. We decided this summer to do a Speechcraft. It's a way for us to
put on a mini speaking seminar for interested people with the thought
that once they begin to find their voice, some will want to continue on
as members.
The Speechcraft began this Friday. Four of us met on Tuesday to discuss
the details of the meeting. We had no one signed up and so we were
wondering if we should even do it. But then we figured even if no one
came, it would still be good practice and we could do another one after
the first of the year.
I became a little disheartened on Wednesday when another member called
and told me she would be moving. Then I figured, we've done what we
could. If it's going to work, it's out of our hands now, it's up to
God/dess.
Friday, we had EIGHT guests! One person joined the club, four signed up
for the Speechcraft, and two have to check their schedule. Fortunately,
we had decided to continue on with our meeting without any attachment to
results. I was happy to see our seeds bloom, but I can honestly say,
that if it was time for this club to fold, I could have readily accepted
that too.
So here's how I'm viewing surrender:
* Do your part
* Let it go
* Have no attachment to results
It's so EASY once we surrender. It makes me wonder why I resisted for so
long...
Nancy
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:29:55 -0400
From: Harsha <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: hey_rikATnospamyahoo.com
CC: lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Rik agrees Lobster looks more like a Horse...
Message-ID: <360CFA63.E889F393ATnospambryant.edu>
Rik Wallace wrote:
> ---Lobster <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> thinks he is a horse:
> >
> > BIBBLE BOBBLE BABBLE - HORSE
> >
> > I'm a horse.
> > not a number - not a knot
> > nor a ten foot purse
> >
> >
Harsha: O.K. We have nominations for the Nobel Prize in literature
coming up. You know who I am voting for.Thanks for the smiles. May your
days be happy and nights be blissful. May you always know in advance
what groceries are needed for the next week.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:36:26 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
cc: Hudson Jackson II <hjackson2ATnospamhotmail.com>, paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980926213316.14383C-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In the starting i was not able to recite mantra peacefully and would be
all stressed than when one day i was all tired of all this. I decided to
give all wat i had to My Pujya Gurudev and that i felt deep love and
relaxation after and during meditation.
love,
anurag
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> At 03:01 PM 25/09/98 PDT, Hudson Jackson II wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Say "Goddess, please take this from me. It is a gift for you.
> >>>Thankyou very much."
>
> >I wish I can put this in practice more often myself, as busy and
> >stressful as I am, but I'm frustrated that I never see results of it,
> >because of semantics and this "thing" inside me or wherever that seems
> >intent on stressing theory over application - and I'm quite impatient
> >already. But I'll leave that to internal affairs and not the list.
>
> Yer funny.. it is stressing theory over application, coz you are not
> applying yourself. You are instead listening to your ego giving you
> feelings of busyness and stress. Your impatience is your lack of faith.
> Faith is patient. Unconditional love will wait for you to realize that you
> cannot win, and must surrender. It will be as gentle as your resistance
> allows.
> You seek to bargain.. what can you give to Goddess? Everything you
> believe you possess, is a gift from Her. Give it back to Her, and you get
> to see it afresh, thru Her eyes. Unconditional love sees perfection.
> Presto, end of stress. At least, till the next time you resist.. :)
>
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:41:44 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Am <heidiATnospamadan.kingston.net>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980926223923.15130C-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
yes, i too have felt the vortexes in head and the pincing feling on legs
when going to sleep but never thought that it would be related to OBE but
i think i haven't had concious OBE.
love,
Anurag
On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Am wrote:
> >Oh yes, it is entirely possible to have OBEs using "the vibrations" as
> >the out of body travelers call them. I would get these weird
> >feelings and then I would be out flying around the room and other
> >places.
>
> I get vibrations starting at the soles of my feet every night, moving slowly
> up my legs sometimes us far as my solar plexus and lately also in the palms
> of my hands. This is however not all. I need to know from someone who's
> experienced this:
>
> After the vibrations (very mild and pleasant) I feel like my body begins to
> move in a slow liquid movement although it is NOT my body moving. It seems
> like there is another body of mine moving. Sometimes it feels like my leg
> stretches to the length of about two or three more feet, I can feel this
> very clearly. Lately my arms do the same. My physical body seems confused by
> this because my muscles seem to want to follow this "stretching". Before
> every onset of this phenomena I feel little pinpricks here and there on my
> skin like on my face or my feet, legs and arms and also my fingers. I've
> read of the "cobweb" effect which is more gentle and I've experienced that
> for many months. Now it's more like little piercing needle pains which leave
> after a while. Also, before every time that this "stretching" of limbs
> ocurrs, it feels like another skin is leaving my real skin. (I'm not much
> into snakes so I don't think I'll turn into one :)
>
> I know this may sound right off the wall but so be it, that's what is
> happening. And yes, I do practice every night to do an OBE. On this list, I
> have so far not come accross this liquid moving of a body one cannot see.
> Does anyone know about this? I would be happy to have some feedback. I do
> not believe that we all need to go through the exact same phenomena to
> experience an OBE. Rather, I think that we will each have our own unique
> experiences depending on our individual physical make up and mindset.
>
> Robert Munroe's book has been the first one to enlighten me on the subject
> and I have not stopped to gain entrance (or is it exit??) into the other
> realm since.
>
> Looking forward to some answers, I may have come as far as i can go on my own.
>
> Thank you and please: DO live in JOY
>
> Am
>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:33:55 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980926223049.15130B-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
is it like something is revolving at a very high speed in head.
love ,
anurag
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Sharon Webb wrote:
> Yes,
>
> I have had these exact sensations recently. The vibrations are more or less
> continuous at a low level, but then they grow in amplitude at night before
> sleep. A few times it is like a vortex that sucks me out of the top of my
> head.
>
> Sharon
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:42:36 PDT
From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Me again
Message-ID: <19980926174238.11276.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Hi all
>
> I haven't had time to read the letters just yet, but i am writing to
let
>you all know that I ended up in the hospital last night. I had a severe
asthma
>attack again...This time I cried AND made it worse, my throat closed up
on me
>and i thought I was going to die.
> When I got to the hospital all the lights turned off!!!!! The nurses
were
>saying "Oh my God, whats happening here, we do not need this right
now"!! I
>had to laugh at that one!! Then the nurse who was working on me kept
dropping
>all the equipment, I had a total of three treatments, two doses of
steroids
>and now I'm home again on steroids!!
I hope you get better soon. I have severe chronic asthma myself. I do
not get sudden attacks but have it all the time instead. But at least I
do not end up in the emergency room. I have gone in on a hastily
arranged appointment once and was sent home with steriod pills when I
had a really bad bit of asthma though. But usually I am just on the
inhaled steriods. I haven't had many side effects from them except that
I usually carry an extra 5 or 6 pounds of weight when I'm on them.
WHen my k began rising in ernest a year ago, I did not notice any
obvious change in my asthma probs, but mine is not the sudden onset type
asthma and is more affected by exercise and allergens than by emotions
(everyone has different triggers for asthma) so that might be why. I
have heard that k and meditation can be beneficial to asthma so I have
been wondering lately when the "benefit" will start to kick in!
They could not find any reason for the
>asthma, all my tests were normal...except my lungs were inflamed.
Yeah, that's what they always tell me too. It just means they could
find no physical sickness in your body that could have triggered it.
> I'm doing better today!! I'm still a little tight but better.
Glad to hear it. There's nothing more pleasant than being able to
breath properly!
I wanted to
>let you all know so that you would not worry...I saw the floaty things
today,
>this time they were spirialing around like crazy, and they had little
strings,
Cool huh. I see em like zig zagging points of light, but with no
strings.
>I also saw the aura around the trees, does it look like a shadow, but
just
>lighter than a shadow? Like light around it.
That describes how I see it too. I first saw it on trees too, but you
can see it on buildings or whatever.
> I'll answer all of your letters as I go along, I'm just really tired
but
>kind of wired...with all the meds.
Yeah those asthma meds are strong stimulants. Makes caffeine look small
time! But your body does eventually adapt to them and you lose the
"wired" effect, although it is a slow process.
>
> i love you all...gis
-E
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:58:39 PDT
From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <19980926175840.22087.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>I have also had some very intense obe experiences and the ones I
remember most
>have me floating over a body of water and looking down at it. This
"looking"
>bugs me because I still equate the acting of looking with the physical
eye and
>therefore inconsistent with OBE's since the conciousness doesn't have a
>physical eye in that state. I wonder if anyone else has had the obe
>experience and wondered about the seeing eye issue.
Yup, this is a common question for OBEers. Consensus seems to be that
the way you perceive called "seeing" is really not so much a function of
the eyes but a function of the spirit. THe physical eyes and physical
brain merely add additional data to the mix, in some ways improving our
knowledge of what we see in the physical and in some ways decreasing our
ability to see the nonphysical.
You may have noticed that when OOB, one seems to think and see
differently in that one may not identify a common object like a stapler
when OOB until after one has returned to body. It seems that unless we
really want to know what the object is, the information does not come to
us. While in the physical, the information is automatically provided to
us, whether we want it or not, via the physical eyes and brain. So the
physical eyes seem to keep us grounded in the physical. That's my take
on it anyway.
>
>Besides large bodies of water, mine are funny, as, and this is not a
joke, it
>is funny, but really not a joke - I once had one where I remember being
stuck
>in my bathroom all night floating around in very monontomous cirlces
for what
>seemed like hours over the sink and the toilet. It was very very
weird.
>Thought it would be cute to share.
>
>
I too have noticed a vortex like effect in numerous of my OBEs. Often
after I get out of body, I will be flying around in circles around the
room like I was on a roller coaster ride or something. And other times,
I will be rock still like the universe has been frozen. I am sometimes
able to completely control where I go and other times only partially.
If I ever figure it out, I'll write a book and make lotsa money! ;-P
-E
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 26 Sep 98 18:59:35 +0000
From: "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Freedom
Message-Id: <OUT-360D3997.MD-1.0.paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Ah freedom, delicious to the heart. I'm not gay, I'm just myself.
I don't know why but usually I am afraid of freedom. More of a train
driver than the pilot of an off-road 4x4. It's okay to be me and okay
to be you.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:41:11 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Surrender key to empowerment
Message-ID: <001401bde97d$6511efa0$db4b95c1ATnospamdefault>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>So here's how I'm viewing surrender:
>
>* Do your part
>* Let it go
>* Have no attachment to results
>
>It's so EASY once we surrender. It makes me wonder why I resisted
for so
>long...
ah yes . . .
In Sufism we talk about giving up renunciation . . .
Anything one can have is not worth giving up - so we strive for the
unattainable and then . . .
we get very attached to the result of having no results . . .
Be Well
Lobster
waving a white flag
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:56:50 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>,
"Harsha" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Subject: Re: Rik agrees Lobster looks more like a Horse...
Message-ID: <001601bde97d$6c3d9180$db4b95c1ATnospamdefault>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>> ---Lobster <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> thinks he is a horse:
>> > BIBBLE BOBBLE BABBLE - HORSE
>> >
>> > I'm a horse.
>Harsha: O.K. We have nominations for the Nobel Prize in literature
>coming up. You know who I am voting for.Thanks for the smiles. May
your
>days be happy and nights be blissful. May you always know in
advance
>what groceries are needed for the next week.
You outragious fraud Harsha - next people will be asking to become
your Chela. Just be grateful I don't adopt you as my Guru - then you
would be in real trouble . . .
Next week? I am not even sure I will be here tomorrow - but then who
is . . .
Actually I think I will adopt you as my Guru.
Tell me Swami what are you doing to ensure I reach enlightenment
before the advancing groceries . . .
You really should be making more efforts on my behalf - spiritually
I am worthless - why are you so lax . . .
Be Well
Om Guru Ji Om
Lobster
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:43:08 -0400
From: Antoine Carre <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca>
To: Evelyn Niedbalec <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-id: <01bde97d$81d5d3e0$c3df60cfATnospamantoine>
>Yup, this is a common question for OBEers. Consensus seems to be that
>the way you perceive called "seeing" is really not so much a function of
>the eyes but a function of the spirit. THe physical eyes and physical
>brain merely add additional data to the mix, in some ways improving our
>knowledge of what we see in the physical and in some ways decreasing our
>ability to see the nonphysical.
Hello evelyn,
This process of how the brain and eyes decrease our hability to see
nonphysical, is starting to be pretty well described in the quantum theory
of consciousness. But they would say that the physical eye an brain does not
bring additional data to the mix as you say, but limits the "data" to a form
of manifestation so it becomes manifested, "solid" in time and space.
For those interested in the evolution of the human mind true science here is
an article that gives a good perspective on the work of physics applied to
the mind today. At the very least this theory is good for breaking the brain
washing from school on what they called science.
http://www.erols.com/wcri/CONSCIOUSNESS.html
>You may have noticed that when OOB, one seems to think and see
>differently in that one may not identify a common object like a stapler
>when OOB until after one has returned to body. It seems that unless we
>really want to know what the object is, the information does not come to
>us. While in the physical, the information is automatically provided to
>us, whether we want it or not, via the physical eyes and brain. So the
>physical eyes seem to keep us grounded in the physical. That's my take
>on it anyway.
You understand the meanning of passing from a uncollapsed state (OOB in your
words) to a collapsed state (the physical) in quantum theory :). In the
words of Walker in physics, this movement is called the will, in the words
of Ryazanov, a Russian physicist it's called the "fall". The "redemption" is
the movement the other way around, uncollapsing.
An interesting thing is the balance in the flow in one way and the other,
which according to some makes consciousness. But i guess it's something one
as to find for him/herself.
On thing is shure to have OOB, one must think he as a body.
Antoine
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:06:01 EDT
From: YahseyesATnospamaol.com
To: nancyATnospamwtp.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Surrender key to empowerment
Message-ID: <c88b20f3.360d3b19ATnospamaol.com>
Hi Nancy. I was very happy to hear of the results of your experience. Your
story openned up yet another issue for me that only this list seems to be able
to answer like so many other things I am learning can only be addressed by
her. This is not a personal attack at all!!. I am stating it this way
because I need to understand the word "surrender" in my words. I know it is
the right path but intellectually, I can't reconcile it.
I have always felt that surrender is a form of cop out. That just giving up
something and putting it into "God/ess'" hands was a form of not helping
yourself handle something. God/ess works in us, as us - how can we give up
anything to something that is part of us? God/ess receives joy when we
sacrifice our efforts and their results to her but not our responsibility and
challeange. Please comment. I think you agree but I need to understand it
in my way, to understand how to surrender. I really really want to surrender
in honor to her if you see what I mean. Love
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:16:25 EDT
From: YahseyesATnospamaol.com
To: log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <a1ac1377.360d3d89ATnospamaol.com>
Hmmm, thanks, interesting. You are right on the thing about seeing objects
like a stapler in a totally different light. I once had an OBE where I was in
very lit tunnel like hallway and I stayed there because I felt such an
overwhelming love and Joy for the simple state and total emersion of "being in
a hallway". Go figure.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:30:29 PDT
From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <19980926203030.22269.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>>Yup, this is a common question for OBEers. Consensus seems to be that
>>the way you perceive called "seeing" is really not so much a function
of
>>the eyes but a function of the spirit. THe physical eyes and physical
>>brain merely add additional data to the mix, in some ways improving
our
>>knowledge of what we see in the physical and in some ways decreasing
our
>>ability to see the nonphysical.
>
>
>Hello evelyn,
>
>This process of how the brain and eyes decrease our hability to see
>nonphysical, is starting to be pretty well described in the quantum
theory
>of consciousness. But they would say that the physical eye an brain
does not
>bring additional data to the mix as you say, but limits the "data" to a
form
>of manifestation so it becomes manifested, "solid" in time and space.
Call it what you will. I was referring to an observation of mine that
when one sees objects while OOB, it seems hard to comprehend the
cultural significance of the objects. An example would be when I was
OOB and observing the contents of my kitchen table. I wanted to take
note of what was there so that I could check on it after I got back to
body. I saw many objects but was thinking only of their colors, not
what they were. FInally, I focused on a bright red roundish one and
tried to name it. A concept of "toy thing" came to mind. WHen I got
back to body, I thought of the object and realized that it was one of my
dog's red rubber chew toys known as a "Kong." (and no, the stuff on my
table was not equivilent to the stuff that was currently on the table).
So, whether or not you want to call this extra info as causing us to
become solid in this time/space, it is in my opinion ADDITIONAL data
that is added by the physical eyes and brain that the spirit body seems
to have trouble with.
If you have read Robert Monroe's first book, you may recall that he had
similar experiences. In one, he flew to a friend's house and saw them
passing out what he interpreted as large white rectangular playing
cards. After returning to the physical and checking with his friend, it
turns out that they had been passing out the mail and the playing cards
where letters. In another incident, he saw a friend put some kind of
engine part (I forget exactly what it was) in the back seat of his car,
and Monroe interpreted it as being one of those remote control miniature
cars.
-E
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