1998/08/24 19:48
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #588
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 588
Today's Topics:
Re: More talk about the swirling fun [ "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net> ]
Re: A. Bailey [ "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net> ]
Re: More talk about the swirling fun [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Re: More talk about the swirling fun [ "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #583 [ MoonrisempATnospamaol.com ]
Hello! [ "Hudson Jackson II" <hjackson2ATnospamhotm ]
Re: More talk about the swirling fun [ "Pure Heart" <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.co ]
Re: Heat and crown chakra sensations [ "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotma ]
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:22:12 +0800
From: "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
Message-ID: <35E203B4.585C83AFATnospamibm.net>
I should have known people might get upset...
I'll try to explain but first remember one thing, what you have seen in my post
may be more due to your habits of seeing than to my habit of writing.
First: obediance is a contradiction because the one being obedient is the one
who needs it, not the one to whom the obediance is given. While surrender is
neede, blindness is not. I wouldn't recommend blind obedience.
Also it is prodent to watch out to whom one is obedient. Obedience to nazis is
a complicated matter. Disobedience to nazi's gets you killed. Ask those who
went through WWII. Obedience should not lead or let you do bad things. Thus
there is an important place for morality in the world. I recommend the
discipline of setting aside a period of days to never tell any lies at all, even
white lies, even slight deceptions. When you can do that you might be ready for
the spiritual discipline of obedience.
By understanding it as a spiritual discipline, you can practice it even when the
person or the orders to which you are expected to be obedient are not completely
right or good. Most employees are very familiar with this: being asked to do
things the wrong way. Most employees can distinguish between big wrongs, worth
going to war with the boss about (at risk of losing one's job) and little
wrongs, which we let pass. In fact most sons and daughters are familiar with
this as a daily problem. In America we first judge our parents before offering
obedience. In Asia people first obey and judge with trepidation if at all.
Thus in Asia the art of obedience is more widely practiced and they condemn the
corruption of America as due to the spiritual imbalance of our habit of judging
before we obey. The truth lies at a place where both extremes are understood.
I too had abusive parents, but being obedient to them helped me through it. I
too had teachers with sexual designs on me, but from my position, maintaining a
purity of my intention helped me through it. The obedience is important for the
person being obedient. Any person abusing the obediance of another creates
horrific karma for themselves (the real nazi problem). The problem is not
solved by insisting on doing things one's own way all the time -- that stunts
your spiritual growth.
All this doesn't mean that we shouldn't take effective steps to rid the world of
nazis and abusers. In real life situations it is rarely the victims, at the
time of victimization, who are in a position to do that. I mean that there is a
time for obedience and a time for cleaning up the society around us. Most often
these are different times and different people
Does this make things any clearer?
M
Sharon Webb wrote:
> Mary L. Riley wrote:
> >>The irony is that people need to purify their ability to be obedient in
> order to get beyond their own egos. Thus in order to do this it is
> essential to practice doing what one is told.>>
>
> Excuse me, but I'm having trouble with this line. Isn't this the same line
> the Nazi war criminals used to justify their actions?
>
> I'm also not completely sure that egos are something to "get beyond" as if
> they were excess baggage. We _did_ come into this world equipped with them.
> Are they the spiritual equivalent of the vermiform appendix?
>
> >>At the same time those doing
> the telling may not be worthy, or may be worthy only for a while.
>
> And yet with blind obedience, who will develop the discrimination to discern
> who may or may not be worthy?
>
> >>Awareness of what is going on is, I believe, the only way out. Refusing
> to
> do anything because someone else tells me to do it will stunt out growth
> (individually and planetarily).
>
> Doesn't that have a great deal to do with who or what is doing the telling?
> If I were a kid brought up as a racist, for example, would I be well-advised
> to listen to my elders? Or would I be better advised to look inside and
> find my own answers?
>
> >>One of the very great paradoxes of living. The business of obedience is
> needed for spiritual reasons, much more than
> for practical reasons.
>
> Obedience to what? To whom? To what spiritual end?
>
> Curiously yours,
>
> Sharon
> shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
>
> Fractals and 2D and 3D graphics
> http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
>
> Winner of nineteen top web awards.
> Free screensaver and wallpaper d/l.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:29:21 +0800
From: "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
To: Pure Heart <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, morlightATnospammhonline.net, magneagaATnospammonet.no
Subject: Re: A. Bailey
Message-ID: <35E20560.3BEB194AATnospamibm.net>
As one who has also been the subject of indended murder, one has to see it
as a part of life. Life doesn't come nice, as you have realized. Pablum
doesn't get one very far. Life can be compared to waves in the ocean --
sometimes they are very big and powerful and dangerous. But it's nothing
personal.
I suppose the problem with "masters" is the severity of betrayal by them,
if and when that occurs. I find that most so-called masters are as
changeable as the rest of us, and many do not seem to be able to sustain
their mastery for long -- they fall back into hellish modes in the course
of their journeys.
My current tentative proposition is that it is good to take what a master
can give for as long as the master is a master, and when that ends, to
leave it behind and move on. Does this seem too unfeeling?
M
Pure Heart wrote:
> If you look at the history of the formation of the Theosophy and
> Arcane School groups, you will find they 'borrow' titles from
> a number of prior mythologies.
>
> The scholars I have spoken to of that era in time tell me that
> a number of deviations from the basic source of H.P. Blatvsky
> were introduced into the two descendants of this tradition,
> and that there is inconsistency between the two.
>
> Lastly, the initial source of my distrust of the Arcane School
> came some years ago from a physical encounter I had with one of
> their world famous 'masters' who tried his very best to kill me
> in the flesh (no vision stuff here).
>
> He did fail, however I did suffer a terrible wound that took me
> over 10 years to recover from.
>
> While I am not angry, it does go to show you that the spiritual
> is not always this 'feel good pablum' that so many wish it to be.
>
> -Kevin
>
> >From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Mon Aug 24 14:56:59 1998
> >Received: from lists.execpc.com (methos.execpc.com [169.207.3.91])
> > by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id QAA00062;
> > Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:56:55 -0500 (CDT)
> >Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:56:55 -0500
> >Received: (from slistATnospamlocalhost)
> > by lists.execpc.com id QAA17153;
> > Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:56:55 -0500
> >Message-Id: <199808242255.XAA05507ATnospamumbukta.monet.no>
> >From: "Magne Aga" <magneagaATnospammonet.no>
> >To: "Pure Heart" <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.com>, <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
> > <morlightATnospammhonline.net>
> >Subject: Re: A. Bailey
> >Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:52:34 +0200
> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> >X-Priority: 3
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
> >
> >
> >
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> >Resent-From: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
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> >
> >
> >
> >* Maureen
> >Hi pure heart,
> >Thought it all boiled down to submitting to the Christ.
> >More Light.
> >----------
> >* Pure Heart
> >Their rather thin and pathetic attempt to rope 'christian mystics'
> >into their food chain by misrepresenting the truth does not
> >impress me.
> >
> >Their 'cosmic christ' or 'christ consciousness' is just a scam to
> >funnel life force into their hungry masters maw.
> >
> >-------
> >Jesus of Nazareth was the last incarnation of Sananda, an ascended
> master.
> >And although he is largly associated with *Church* - exoteric
> organizations
> >denying and condemding *New Age* - He nevertheless belongs to the same
> >profession as other masters of Spirit.
> >
> >Blessings from Norway
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:57:50 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
Message-ID: <005201bdcfc3$62f15f40$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mary K. Riley wrote:
>>Does this make things any clearer?
It seems clear to me that you believe what you write. What is not clear are
the motivations behind your apparent desire to proselytize.
Sharon
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary L. Riley <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
>I should have known people might get upset...
>
>I'll try to explain but first remember one thing, what you have seen in my
post
>may be more due to your habits of seeing than to my habit of writing.
>
>First: obediance is a contradiction because the one being obedient is the
one
>who needs it, not the one to whom the obediance is given. While surrender
is
>neede, blindness is not. I wouldn't recommend blind obedience.
>
>Also it is prodent to watch out to whom one is obedient. Obedience to
nazis is
>a complicated matter. Disobedience to nazi's gets you killed. Ask those
who
>went through WWII. Obedience should not lead or let you do bad things.
Thus
>there is an important place for morality in the world. I recommend the
>discipline of setting aside a period of days to never tell any lies at all,
even
>white lies, even slight deceptions. When you can do that you might be
ready for
>the spiritual discipline of obedience.
>
>By understanding it as a spiritual discipline, you can practice it even
when the
>person or the orders to which you are expected to be obedient are not
completely
>right or good. Most employees are very familiar with this: being asked to
do
>things the wrong way. Most employees can distinguish between big wrongs,
worth
>going to war with the boss about (at risk of losing one's job) and little
>wrongs, which we let pass. In fact most sons and daughters are familiar
with
>this as a daily problem. In America we first judge our parents before
offering
>obedience. In Asia people first obey and judge with trepidation if at all.
>Thus in Asia the art of obedience is more widely practiced and they condemn
the
>corruption of America as due to the spiritual imbalance of our habit of
judging
>before we obey. The truth lies at a place where both extremes are
understood.
>
>I too had abusive parents, but being obedient to them helped me through it.
I
>too had teachers with sexual designs on me, but from my position,
maintaining a
>purity of my intention helped me through it. The obedience is important
for the
>person being obedient. Any person abusing the obediance of another creates
>horrific karma for themselves (the real nazi problem). The problem is not
>solved by insisting on doing things one's own way all the time -- that
stunts
>your spiritual growth.
>
>All this doesn't mean that we shouldn't take effective steps to rid the
world of
>nazis and abusers. In real life situations it is rarely the victims, at
the
>time of victimization, who are in a position to do that. I mean that there
is a
>time for obedience and a time for cleaning up the society around us. Most
often
>these are different times and different people
>
>Does this make things any clearer?
>
>M
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:04:34 +0800
From: "Mary L. Riley" <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
Message-ID: <35E20DA2.468AF1E8ATnospamibm.net>
no desire to proselytize at all. just answering your question.
M
Sharon Webb wrote:
> Mary K. Riley wrote:
> >>Does this make things any clearer?
>
> It seems clear to me that you believe what you write. What is not clear are
> the motivations behind your apparent desire to proselytize.
>
> Sharon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary L. Riley <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
> To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
> Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
> Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 8:44 PM
> Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
>
> >I should have known people might get upset...
> >
> >I'll try to explain but first remember one thing, what you have seen in my
> post
> >may be more due to your habits of seeing than to my habit of writing.
> >
> >First: obediance is a contradiction because the one being obedient is the
> one
> >who needs it, not the one to whom the obediance is given. While surrender
> is
> >neede, blindness is not. I wouldn't recommend blind obedience.
> >
> >Also it is prodent to watch out to whom one is obedient. Obedience to
> nazis is
> >a complicated matter. Disobedience to nazi's gets you killed. Ask those
> who
> >went through WWII. Obedience should not lead or let you do bad things.
> Thus
> >there is an important place for morality in the world. I recommend the
> >discipline of setting aside a period of days to never tell any lies at all,
> even
> >white lies, even slight deceptions. When you can do that you might be
> ready for
> >the spiritual discipline of obedience.
> >
> >By understanding it as a spiritual discipline, you can practice it even
> when the
> >person or the orders to which you are expected to be obedient are not
> completely
> >right or good. Most employees are very familiar with this: being asked to
> do
> >things the wrong way. Most employees can distinguish between big wrongs,
> worth
> >going to war with the boss about (at risk of losing one's job) and little
> >wrongs, which we let pass. In fact most sons and daughters are familiar
> with
> >this as a daily problem. In America we first judge our parents before
> offering
> >obedience. In Asia people first obey and judge with trepidation if at all.
> >Thus in Asia the art of obedience is more widely practiced and they condemn
> the
> >corruption of America as due to the spiritual imbalance of our habit of
> judging
> >before we obey. The truth lies at a place where both extremes are
> understood.
> >
> >I too had abusive parents, but being obedient to them helped me through it.
> I
> >too had teachers with sexual designs on me, but from my position,
> maintaining a
> >purity of my intention helped me through it. The obedience is important
> for the
> >person being obedient. Any person abusing the obediance of another creates
> >horrific karma for themselves (the real nazi problem). The problem is not
> >solved by insisting on doing things one's own way all the time -- that
> stunts
> >your spiritual growth.
> >
> >All this doesn't mean that we shouldn't take effective steps to rid the
> world of
> >nazis and abusers. In real life situations it is rarely the victims, at
> the
> >time of victimization, who are in a position to do that. I mean that there
> is a
> >time for obedience and a time for cleaning up the society around us. Most
> often
> >these are different times and different people
> >
> >Does this make things any clearer?
> >
> >M
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:33:03 EDT
From: MoonrisempATnospamaol.com
To: FluteATnospamcreate.org, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #583
Message-ID: <8bc340be.35e21451ATnospamaol.com>
Flute,
I have had some of my clients ask if I had put heating pads or something on my
hands when I touch their backs and they cannot see me. The energy gets hot.
Sometimes, I feel ice cold energy coming from my hands and they tell me it is
warm. I've had days where I felt like I was "turned on" all day from the
energy. I usually do not have a lot of side affects from the k energy. I am
now learning to keep the pelvic area loose and exercised. I did some belly
dancing classes and it was good to keep the pelvis region exercised. I have
problems when the energy cannot flow freely. I am also noticing that when i go
to different places, I have better flow of energy. That is one reason I am
moving to the West.
As a side note, I have a brother in Ft. Worth. I am planning to move to AZ. No
mold!!!!! LOL! My apt is full of mold and mildew.
Thanks for sharing,
Barbara
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:33:43 PDT
From: "Hudson Jackson II" <hjackson2ATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Hello!
Message-ID: <19980825013344.19733.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello, folks! I just want to introduce myself briefly.
I'm Hudson, and I'm working toward a degree in Information Systems right
now, and at one time I had this interest in Kundalini whose pattern
follows that of a roller coaster.
Anyways, I may have had experiences resulting from it - I'm not really
expert at knowing this stuff for sure, even though I've read plenty
about it. When I was a kid I had heard music inside, without practicing
any meditation or yoga. It was totally natural to me. Didn't think
much about back then.
About a few years ago I figured I could figure out what would happen in
the future through the use of automatic writing. It didn't work out,
because the information I got was 99.9% lies. However, a short time
after I was able to hear messages as well as music. The bad thing about
that was that I had to spend a couple of months in the hospital.
I was in therapy afterward up until mid '97 - the doctors were looking
at a mental disturbance diagnosis, yet the medicine they prescribed did
nothing. And above that, I suspect the doctors were rationalists to the
point where I felt that they would have been happy if I just resign to
being an atheist.
There were some interesting things happening to me, though, like in 1995
when I was diagnosed with diabetes (I had too much weight on, probably
because of the doctors' choice of medicine), but the moment I was on
insulin, I somehow had the willpower again to not eat so much. Then I
felt like I could eat anything I wanted to, and I still lost weight. In
April '96 my stomach started churning every morning when I was about to
get ready for work - and it's been doing that almost every weekday
since. However, insulin dependency went down and by last year, I had no
need for it. I'm a little overweight, but hey - I'm still healthy.
On top of that, I've grown increasingly tired every morning - and it
shows through the number of yawns I have to take. The only exception to
this was when I was on a business trip in Hawai`i - there on one night I
had about 4 hours of sleep and could still move energetically around the
next morning at 5:00 am. Not even 9 hours of sleep here on the East
Coast has that effect (this was before and after the trip - the day
after I came home, it started all over again). There are also times
when I yawn that it feels like there's either pinching or massaging
going on in my head - it's like someone's working on my brain or
something.
There are also many times when either my head or entire body feel like I
could have a fever, and yet my body temperature is absolutely normal.
Finally, each night for the past 21 months I go to bed and then I get
this weird sensation - and I don't feel comfortable describing it in
much detail at all in front of everyone. But anyway, one part of my
body is always affected, and I have very little control over it at this
time, no matter what I do to stop it.
I know a couple of things mentioned are signs of a Kundalini awakening,
but I don't know about the others. I'd rather not make a judgement call
just yet.
I'd like to know about this so-called phenomenon, but for now I'd like
to figure out how to stop the stomach churning and decrease the morning
fatigue and get back some of the control of my body that I lost. Two
questions: how does one "submit" or "surrender" to the Kundalini - I
can't really picture this in my mind yet. And also, are there exercises
which are suitable for a very busy person, especially one who has little
privacy. . . the ones in "The Five Tibetans" don't seem to fit into my
schedule these days.
(I remember the days when this list was up back in '95, by the way - I
bailed out before they took it down for a while only because I had many
commitments to deal with. Just a footnote.)
Well, any hints, comments, etc. are appreciated. Thanks!
-Hudson
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:26:05 PDT
From: "Pure Heart" <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
Message-ID: <19980825022606.23848.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I had someone on this list give me a gentle jab by calling me
'master kevin' -)
Well, I'll risk that title, (in jest) if I must to speak my
mind -- I just want to share some of the pot holes I've
encountered in my very rocky spiritual path.
#1 - I'm pretty dubious about this 'obedience to a tainted source'
thing myself. I mean, come on, there's no race here - we will never
'move on' until we can make the present day a paradise, without
help from anyone whatsoever -- here and now is divine, its the
only moment we will ever have as a human.
#2 - Like everything else the human ego has an important function,
number 1 of which is to prevent us from being a lump of unambulatory
jelly. I'd further add, that the ego allows for us to focus on
one small thing at a time, so that maybe we can learn from it, rather
than being overwhelmed by 'the all'. The ego needs to be lean
and pure, and to work in concert with the other forces and players.
-Kevin
>From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Mon Aug 24 16:18:24 1998
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>Message-ID: <030c01bdcfb0$3f061980$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
>From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
>To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
>Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:40:49 -0400
>
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>
>Mary L. Riley wrote:
>>>The irony is that people need to purify their ability to be obedient
in
>order to get beyond their own egos. Thus in order to do this it is
>essential to practice doing what one is told.>>
>
>Excuse me, but I'm having trouble with this line. Isn't this the same
line
>the Nazi war criminals used to justify their actions?
>
>I'm also not completely sure that egos are something to "get beyond" as
if
>they were excess baggage. We _did_ come into this world equipped with
them.
>Are they the spiritual equivalent of the vermiform appendix?
>
>>>At the same time those doing
>the telling may not be worthy, or may be worthy only for a while.
>
>And yet with blind obedience, who will develop the discrimination to
discern
>who may or may not be worthy?
>
>>>Awareness of what is going on is, I believe, the only way out.
Refusing
>to
>do anything because someone else tells me to do it will stunt out
growth
>(individually and planetarily).
>
>Doesn't that have a great deal to do with who or what is doing the
telling?
>If I were a kid brought up as a racist, for example, would I be
well-advised
>to listen to my elders? Or would I be better advised to look inside
and
>find my own answers?
>
>>>One of the very great paradoxes of living. The business of obedience
is
>needed for spiritual reasons, much more than
>for practical reasons.
>
>Obedience to what? To whom? To what spiritual end?
>
>Curiously yours,
>
>Sharon
>shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
>
> Fractals and 2D and 3D graphics
> http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
>
> Winner of nineteen top web awards.
> Free screensaver and wallpaper d/l.
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:41:26 PDT
From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Heat and crown chakra sensations
Message-ID: <19980825024127.27167.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I often feel coolness or wetness, tingling, poking, and/or pressure in
the crown region on and off through the day.
I while ago, I had a dream that I was sitting on a chair and the base of
my spine started getting REALLY hot. I ignored it for a while but then
thought I might be sitting on a hot coal and get burned so I got up and
looked at the chair. A flame suddenly started burning from within the
chair so I took it outside. Then I woke up a little and could still
feel some residual warmth. Next time, maybe I will remember to stay on
the chair and let it continue as it didn't actually hurt, just very
intense.
I also tend to wake up about 2AM just broiling hot. After about 10
minutes, I cool down again and go back to sleep. Also noticed the
broiling phenomena right after returning from longer OBEs.
-Evelyn
>
>I have been experiencing many changes...most interestingly, the feeling
on the top of my head (crown chackra area) that water is dripping on my
head...i feel for it, it feels so real...i can't believe it isn't
actually wet!!! i also look in the mirror to check also...this feeling
usually comes when i am doing 'healings"...pranic/reiki, whatever you
like to call it. :o) when i am having the deep feelings of unconditional
love and compassion...i am wondering if this an 'annointing' and if
anybody else has felt this particular sign...also..i had an experience
at night, dreamlike but real...that fire was ripping through my body..up
the chackras...husband says i get really really hot at night at
times...i feel this also when awake...feels good, an inner warmth,
burning...not uncomfortable...any responses will be appreciated and
welcome...
>
>
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