1998/08/20 15:11
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #577
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 577
Today's Topics: Personal Experiences [ geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com ]
Personal experiences [ geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com ] For those new to the list [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ]
Re: try again.... [ "Paul West" ] negativity [ "janpa tsomo" ]
apology [ "janpa tsomo" ] Re: Emptiness... [ "Kat" ]
Re: try again.... [ ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com ] detaching (was RE: Emptiness...) [ kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira K ]
Re: try again.... [ onarresATnospaminreach.com ] Re: try again.... [ nancy ]
Follow up to personal experiences [ geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com ] AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Jody Boldt ]
Bouncing? (ATTN Mystress) [ kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira K ] Kundalini Yoga? [ "Wonderer" ]
RE: Kundalini Yoga? [ kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira K ] Corrected. Punctuation [ trexisATnospamjuno.com (Edward Gurd) ]
unsubscribe [ "Jeff A Spitza" ] Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:00:08 -0700
From: geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Personal Experiences Message-ID:
Hello,
I am a new to this list living in Austin TX and wanted to relay my experiences. When I was 22 I started the Taoist practice of semen
retention. After about 2-3 months I was in my room and heard a roar
like a train and spend the next week in bed. For several months
after that I had unusual changes in body temperature and energy levels. One winter day I went outside being lightly dressed and felt really warm
despite the 32F temperature. Most of the time I was really really tired
but then I would have a rush of energy for maybe an hour when I felt
really energized and filled with energy. I then went through a dark
night of the soul type experience for two years or so.
When I was 30 I went to a buddhist meditation retreat called "Vippassana". You meditate for 10 hours a day for ten days. At this
retreat I experienced the most traumatic event of my life. To keep it
short I will say that my "lunar" soul left and was replaced by a "solar"
soul. I was terrified beyond words.
About 1 1/2 years later I went back. After clearing my past life and pre-human "blind spots" or blockages, these kundalini chills would
rise up my spine to my brain every 4 to 10 seconds whenever I would
meditate. After an hour of this my brain would just glow. This went on
for about three days until a pathway was completed for the energy. I
experienced the "nectar" taste when I touched my tongue to the roof of
my mouth.
A few weeks latter I had a swirling in my crown that would pulse with my heart beat. This happened when I meditated, rested, laid down
to sleep and other times. During this time I had trouble keeping an
erection during sex. Despite that, it was a very blissful time for about
three weeks. Then I started expressing the energy through the
lower chakras and the swirling cone in my crown left.
About a year latter I went through a Dark Night of the Spirit experience for about 9 months. On a trip after that, I stared
experiencing spontaneous orgasms that were 10 to 50 times as powerful as a
normal one. They would sometimes last for a minute or so. As time
passed they became more frequent but much less intense.
This summer I did a two week fast and noticed an increase in the
flow. I am planning another 10 day Vippassana and then a three week fast.
I recommend Taoist energy cultivation, Reiki, fasting while taking
"central chi drink", Ayurveda, organic raw foods, Vippassana, Bernadet Robert's
"The Path to No Self", and self observation.
Blessings to All,
Geoffrey
_____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:11:05 -0700
From: geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Personal experiences Message-ID:
Hello,
I am a new to this list living in Austin TX and wanted to relay my experiences. When I was 22 I started the Taoist practice of semen
retention. After about 2-3 months I was in my room and heard a roar like a train and
spend the next week in bed. For several months after that I had unusual changes in body temperature and energy levels. One winter day I went
outside being lightly dressed and felt really warm despite the 32F temperature. Most of the time I was really really tired but then I
would have a rush of energy for maybe an hour when I felt really energized and filled with energy. I then went through a dark night of
the soul type experience for two years or so.
When I was 30 I went to a buddhist meditation retreat called "Vippassana". You meditate for 10 hours a day for ten days. At this
retreat I experienced the most traumatic event of my life. To keep it short I will say that my "lunar" soul left and was replaced by a "solar"
soul. I was terrified beyond words.
About 1 1/2 years later I went back. After clearing my past life and pre-human "blind spots" or blockages, these kundalini chills would
rise up my spine to my brain every 4 to 10 seconds whenever I would meditate. After an hour of this my brain would just glow. This went on
for about three days until a pathway was completed for the energy. I experienced the "nectar" taste when I touched my tongue to the roof of
my mouth.
A few weeks latter I had a swirling in my crown that would pulse with my heart beat. This happened when I meditated, rested, laid down
to sleep and other times. During this time I had trouble keeping an erection
during sex. Despite that, it was a very blissful time for about three weeks. Then I started expressing the energy through the lower chakras
and the swirling cone in my crown left.
About a year latter I went through a Dark Night of the Spirit experience for about 9 months. On a trip after that, I stared
experiencing spontaneous orgasms that were 10 to 50 times as powerful as a normal one. They would sometimes last for a minute or so. As time
passed they became more frequent but much less intense.
This summer I did a two week fast and noticed an increase in the flow. I am planning another 10 day Vippassana and then a three week
fast.
I recommend Taoist energy cultivation, Reiki, fasting while taking "central chi drink", Ayurveda, organic raw foods, Vippassana, Bernadet
Robert's "The Path to No Self",CoQ10, and self observation.
Blessings to All,
Geoffrey
_____ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:25:14 EDT From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: For those new to the list
Message-ID:
Harsha: The following article on the Web, based on my own experience and background, may be helpful for those interested in Kundalini awakening in the
context of Self-Realization. It contains important cautions about meditation and pranayama which may be useful.
The Spiritual Experience and the Awakening of
>Kundalini Shakti in Tantra Yoga >http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/harsh.html
Here is some Shakti inspired poetry about the Goddess and enlightenment.
http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/poetry.html
Date: 20 Aug 98 18:29:48 +0000 From: "Paul West"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: try again....
Message-Id:
> I am new to the list... and infact new to Kundalini yoga...
This is by no means the first time that somebody has drawn strong links between kundalini and kundalini yoga on this list. Could
somebody please establish wether this is a kundalini yoga list or a list about kundalini on its own. Maybe this sounds a bit seperatist
but I have little or no interest in yoga and things are getting a bit yoga oriented.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:55:36 PDT
From: "janpa tsomo" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: try again.... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>This is by no means the first time that somebody has drawn strong >links between kundalini and kundalini yoga on this list. Could
>somebody please establish wether this is a kundalini yoga list or a >list about kundalini on its own. Maybe this sounds a bit seperatist
>but I have little or no interest in yoga and things are getting a bit >yoga oriented.
yoga is life. how can you draw the line between the two?
eating, i eat for all beings, and imagine my guru is enjoying the food
too.
dressing, i wear ornaments that honor the highest reality.
speaking, if you listen really closely you hear the mantra i hold secretly.
crying, well, tears are never owned. you cry the tears of your enemy
and laugh the tears of your friend.
if you take away friend and enemy, there is only tears and life is made of this stuff.
sometimes that hurts.
--janpa
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:08:32 PDT
From: "janpa tsomo" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: negativity Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
i want to apologize for being very negative lately.
im not trying to depress the entire world. just feel like im trying to hold on sometimes to center.
i think im having what you guys called 'kriyas', the wierd body
sensations. something is working itself into me. and i keep clinging like Velcro to ego. this plus the rather depressing saddness sensation
was enough to knock me off center *again*.
my teacher says (tired of hearing me say that phrase ;)?) fall down 10 times, get up 11.
its tempting to be a wimp. but i dont think my path lies that way.
--janpa
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:29:28 PDT
From: "janpa tsomo" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: apology Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>i want to apologize for being very negative lately. >
>im not trying to depress the entire world. just feel like im trying to >hold on sometimes to center.
> >i think im having what you guys called 'kriyas', the wierd body
>sensations. something is working itself into me. and i keep clinging >like Velcro to ego. this plus the rather depressing saddness sensation
>was enough to knock me off center *again*. >
>my teacher says (tired of hearing me say that phrase ;)?) fall down 10 >times, get up 11.
> >its tempting to be a wimp. but i dont think my path lies that way.
> > --janpa
> >______________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >
>
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:29:01 -0400
From: "Kat" To: , "Ahau Akbal"
Subject: Re: Emptiness... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Ahau Akbal,
>Well me does understand this. In me ramblin' muddyphysical >spiritual journey, me hast come upon this feelin'/concept. Me
>understandin' o' it now is that it depends on how ye be a lookin' >at ye journey. If ye holds that ye be just a body with thinkin'
>and emotional capcities, then throwin' away ye learnin' would be >plain foolishness. It would be like standin' on a ladder than a
>pushin' it over. If ye holds that ye be a spiritual Bein' with the >body and such, then ye learnin's be a ladder ye climbs ta reach
>the roof, an' then ye pushes it away. Ya see this depends upon >what ye be a standin' on. One be scarry an' the other not.
thank you for sharing your thoughts with me and I did understand your point. I think I allowed negetive feelings and thoughts to get the better of me
yesterday when it comes to what I have been learning so far on the path. My emotions are just going so deep lately! I have been told that I need to
detach from them but I am finding this to be a hard thing to do.
In L&L & Understanding,
Katharine Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:38:01 EDT
From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: try again.... Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
In a message dated 8/20/98 1:31:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk writes: <
This is by no means the first time that somebody has drawn strong links between kundalini and kundalini yoga on this list. Could
somebody please establish wether this is a kundalini yoga list or a list about kundalini on its own. Maybe this sounds a bit seperatist
but I have little or no interest in yoga and things are getting a bit yoga oriented.
>>
Paul Paul Paul....
They are only speaking of Kundalini Yoga to get you back for writing all those
loooong posts. It's a revenge thing. Nothing more, nothing less.
Love, xxxtg
GOD IS DEAD
* Nietzshce
NIETZSHCE IS DEAD * God
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:02:18 -0700
From: kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira Korrigan - DTI,MF) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com (kundalini-l)
Subject: detaching (was RE: Emptiness...) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
You're being counselled to "detach" from your emotions? I don't think that detachment is necessarily the correct path...are you being
councilled to let go of attachment? Westerners coming to eastern philosophy often misunderstand what
"attachment" means in the Hindi/Buddhist world. Attachments are our response to input: sensory, intellectual or otherwise. Attachment can be
seen as a superfluous addition to the experience of life - it is when we attach a certain (arbitrary) value to something.
Attachment manifests as lust, loathing or indifferance. It keeps us from remaining in the present. When we crave the continuation of a pleasant
thing, try to avoid the experience of an unpleasant thing, or tune out from experiencing a neither pleasant nor unpleasant sensation, we are
experiencing attachment. What we are usually experiencing less as our sense of attachment grows is reality itself.
When freeing oneself from attachment through meditation, you do not
detach or suppress your emotions. On the contrary, letting go of attachment often intensifies the feelings as we have them. The difference
is that where you may have excitement about the growth of intensity of a positive sensation, jumping ahead and daydreaming about it's culmination
as we are experiencing it, and then immediately revisiting it's memory as the intensity wanes, the unattached perception notes its rise, its peak,
its fall, its cessation and tries to neither extend the duration or be nostalgic after passing.
Freeding oneself from attachment is the most important tool I've ever
come across for growing closer to my god, but I was put off from it for years when I misunderstood it to mean "disassociation."
-Kyira
----------
From: Kat Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 11:34 AM
To: kundalini-l; Ahau Akbal Subject: Re: Emptiness...
Hi Ahau Akbal,
>Well me does understand this. In me ramblin' muddyphysical
>spiritual journey, me hast come upon this feelin'/concept. Me >understandin' o' it now is that it depends on how ye be a lookin'
>at ye journey. If ye holds that ye be just a body with thinkin' >and emotional capcities, then throwin' away ye learnin' would be
>plain foolishness. It would be like standin' on a ladder than a >pushin' it over. If ye holds that ye be a spiritual Bein' with the
>body and such, then ye learnin's be a ladder ye climbs ta reach >the roof, an' then ye pushes it away. Ya see this depends upon
>what ye be a standin' on. One be scarry an' the other not.
thank you for sharing your thoughts with me and I did understand your
point. I think I allowed negetive feelings and thoughts to get the better of me
yesterday when it comes to what I have been learning so far on the path. My
emotions are just going so deep lately! I have been told that I need to detach from them but I am finding this to be a hard thing to do.
In L&L & Understanding,
Katharine
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:16:47 -0700 From: onarresATnospaminreach.com
To: "Paul West" , kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: try again....
Message-Id: Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Paul,
Looks a bit like you want to keep on the subject of your K.A., well, believe it or not K can come by
way of yoga... news to you? Not to many of us... especially those that landed on this list because they started out with kundalini yoga. Your
non-interest on this subject may be of interest to others...
Let us not be hasty Paul, after all, we read some really long posts from
you regarding dreams etc., and while there may be some that were not interested in your dreams - they still gave you a leeway and tried to
help you out. Thank them, and in return try to help the next person on their journey, be it experiences or questions regarding any matter that
is posed to the list. After all that's what it is all about - sharing, caring and helping.
I for one welcome all newcomers - whether they've had the K.A. or just beginning their sojourn to the path. We all started out somewhere.
Light dor
At 06:29 PM 8/20/98 +0000, Paul West wrote:
>> I am new to the list... and infact new to Kundalini yoga...
>
>This is by no means the first time that somebody has drawn strong links between kundalini and kundalini yoga on this list. Could somebody please
establish wether this is a kundalini yoga list or a list about kundalini on its own. Maybe this sounds a bit seperatist but I have little or no
interest in yoga and things are getting a bit yoga oriented.
>
>--
>Paul.
>
>IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
>WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
>E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:46:50 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: try again....
Message-ID: <35DC7D2A.C7F101A7ATnospamwtp.net>
Paul West wrote:
> > I am new to the list... and infact new to Kundalini yoga...
>
> This is by no means the first time that somebody has drawn strong
> links between kundalini and kundalini yoga on this list. Could
> somebody please establish wether this is a kundalini yoga list or a
> list about kundalini on its own. Maybe this sounds a bit seperatist
> but I have little or no interest in yoga and things are getting a bit
> yoga oriented.
Is this a joke, Paul? Certainly you must be trying to be funny because I
can't imagine that YOU of all people would have the gall to set
parameters on what this list covers.
During the weeks we all had to endure your narcissistic manifestos, we
all learned the power of DELETE. Yes, Paul, you too can exercise this
option. It's simple, painless, and relieves the frustration of having to
endure posts which you are not interested in. Try it! :-)
Nancy
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:02:24 -0700
From: geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Follow up to personal experiences
Message-ID: <19980820.150224.3310.0.Geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com>
Sorry for posting twice. It came back undelivered so I reposted.
Greetings,
I have been encouraged by someone to say what I have wisdom have I
learned from my experiences. More than anything, a profound sense of
peace and deep contentment. A deep acceptance. Secondly, a quiet mind
without the constant chatter of thoughts. Thirdly, a non attachment to
people or things. And fourthly, acting instead of reacting to people and
events in my life. The path is to become whole, lacking nothing.
I am most grateful for the deep sense of peace. I know that there
are many more things to discover down the road.
Blessings to all,
Geoffrey
_____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:12:56 -1000 (HST)
From: Jody Boldt <DreamwtchrATnospamaloha.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199808202012.KAA01706ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
Hi. This is so amazing to me because in the past 6 months 95% of the signs and symptoms are ones I have experienced. It created such a life change! I've taken the signs as tremendous gifts that lead me daily, but finding this site has made it even more clear. I need to learn more of this. Any information would be tremendously appreciated. Thanks
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:43:53 -0700
From: kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira Korrigan - DTI,MF)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com (kundalini-l)
Subject: Bouncing? (ATTN Mystress)
Message-ID: <1998Aug20.134137.1137.484568ATnospammoonshine.dynapro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Several people have posted duplicate messages in the last few days saying
they received a bounced message back after the first sending.
I've also received a bounced notice after every posting I've made, even
though the posts still go to the list.
Mystress, can you look in to this?
-Kyira
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:00:05 -0400
From: "Wonderer" <mrtn74aATnospamprodigy.com>
To: "Kundalini" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Kundalini Yoga?
Message-ID: <001c01bdcc7d$8260c440$92589cd1ATnospamcathyber.TOMEN.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Ok. I must be ignorant on this subject. What is the obvious
difference between plain Kundalini and Kundalini Yoga?
I came to practice and experience Kundalini via my practice of Yoga,
and I do not understand the distinction. Is Kundalini, sans-Yoga,
the experience of the affects of Kundalini without the intentional
practice of Yoga (which I understand to be a variety of applied
methods in pursuit of union with God)?
Paul, why does discussion of Yoga seem so off topic to you?
Pardon me, as I am obviously Clueless???
Cathy
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:24:44 -0700
From: kyira_korriganATnospamdynapro.com (Kyira Korrigan - DTI,MF)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com (kundalini-l)
Subject: RE: Kundalini Yoga?
Message-ID: <1998Aug20.142000.1137.484654ATnospammoonshine.dynapro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Kundalini is the arrow, your will the bow. Yoga teaches us the skill of
archery.
Sure, you can study aerodynamics without studying archery, but you won't
have any skill at hitting the target (nirvana) using a bow and arrow if
you haven't practiced archery.
Kundalini can be activated by karma, martial arts, traumatic experiences,
who knows what else? The "meditative state" can be entered using hemisync
tapes, too. But, there is maybe more to the process than the cool, subtle
body part, or the scientifically measurable part. There are different
roads to the top, and each of us has several to choose from. Looking at
the roads open to me, some offer greater wisdom, some greater power, some
peace, some assurance...I've had to be honest with myself in evaluting
them, seeing what I need, and applying some foresight.
Kundalini yoga need not be studied to become skillful with kundalini.
There are other types of physical and behavioral training than the hindi
yogas which are equally effective. But, to study nothing and practice
with kundalini is playing with electricity without safety precautions.
If, at any time, you wish to figure out what's making all those cool
lights, do not put a fork into the light socket. Or, in this case, it
would be don't delve too deeply into the mysteries of kundalini without
trying to figure out if you have a clue what's going on.
-Kyira
----------
From: Wonderer
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 1:59 PM
To: Kundalini
Subject: Kundalini Yoga?
Ok. I must be ignorant on this subject. What is the obvious
difference between plain Kundalini and Kundalini Yoga?
I came to practice and experience Kundalini via my practice of Yoga,
and I do not understand the distinction. Is Kundalini, sans-Yoga,
the experience of the affects of Kundalini without the intentional
practice of Yoga (which I understand to be a variety of applied
methods in pursuit of union with God)?
Paul, why does discussion of Yoga seem so off topic to you?
Pardon me, as I am obviously Clueless???
Cathy
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:24:36 -0400
From: trexisATnospamjuno.com (Edward Gurd)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Corrected. Punctuation
Message-ID: <19980820.172438.9238.0.trexisATnospamjuno.com>
I was musing upon staements made by MAS and Paul West concerning time.
I realized that I'd been misunderstanding this certain saying all along
because I hadn't the correct punctuation. It wasn't one centence. It
was two.
"There's no time. Like the present."
Much better!
EG
_____
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:27:53 -0700
From: "Jeff A Spitza" <jspitzaATnospammailexcite.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <MIMPKGEDOECDBAAAATnospammailexcite.com>
Please take me of the list.
Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:58:59 -0400
From: "Carrea" <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: US vs Sudan
Message-ID: <01bdcc85$bca6b300$3e00fdcfATnospamconcentric>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Just listened to the President of the US speach. I don't understand
Americans sometimes.... Made me feel like looking at a young frustated five
year old, with a gun for toy in is hand.
Made me think of this saying:
"If you believe in the Light, it's because of obscurity,
If you beleive in Happiness it's because of unhappiness,
If you believe in God, then you believe in the Devil."
Father X, exorcist, Church of Notre Dame, Paris.
After the strike from the US, and Bill speach. I would add to that quote:
"If the US represent the example of Law and Order than terroriste must
exist."
...
I feel something changed in international political relation in the world
today, the US crystalised and created a new ennemy by the actions taken
today, like in the begining of the cold war from the act of the Cuba missile
Crisis. This new ennemy, is not a country, but can be everywhere. It will be
interesting to follow.
Certainly a boost to the US war economy over time, but at what cost? Third
world watch out...
The concept of the State is dying, people wake up...
My opinions just had to share them.
Antoine
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