1998/07/02 17:57
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #495
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 495
Today's Topics: The Four Noble Truths [ "Wonderer" ]
Lucid Dreams [ "Wonderer" ] "under psychic a............" [ "b bah" ]
Re: Lucid Dreams [ TAvalon ] Re: Are Chakras Real [ jason spencer ]
Re: Check Out This Cool Website [ Dave08812ATnospamaol.com ] Re: Check out This cool website [ Michael Zimmermann ]
unsubscribe [ MoonrisempATnospamaol.com ] Re: What da F**&^!*??? (was: Check O [ Kathy Bates ]
Anonymity [ "Paul West" To: "Kundalini"
Subject: The Four Noble Truths Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello,
Warning: I have copied below a somewhat lengthy description of the Four Noble Truths. Please skip this post if you're not interested in
the Buddhist view on "Suffering".
A while back I mentioned that I realized long ago that suffering is not necessary to spiritual growth. Someone from this group asked me
to explain this. I tried, but it was not easy for me to explain clearly. Perhaps this information helps; I just came across it in my
web browsings.
Peace,
Cathy
[ "It is no more surprising to be born twice than to be born once." -- Voltaire. ]
*****************Below copied from the internet********************
Method: Four noble truths (Buddhism)
Ariya Suffering
Dukkha (Pali) Duhkha
Description The four truths revealed to the Buddha in mystic illumination: that the cycle of birth and rebirth is basically
suffering; that this suffering is caused by ignorance and the other afflictions, and by actions taking place under their influence; that
transcendence of suffering is nirvana, the cessation of sufferings and their origins such that they will never return; and that there
are means of attaining nirvana, the true paths or consciousnesses.
1. Suffering (dukkha). This is suffering in the sense of transience, of being in the created world and subject to change and loss. There
is suffering in birth, illness and death; in having to deal with what one does not like and being separated from what one likes; in not
having one's desires satisfied; and in the five aggregates - skanda - that make up the transient personality. Even in happiness there is
sorrow because there is realization that the happiness of this world cannot last. The pleasures of the world, being transient, are not
satisfying as spiritual pleasures are, and this lack of satisfaction and harmony motivates the individual to spiritual effort leading to
mental awakening, in particular through the shocks of birth, sickness, old age and death. The first truth is to be fully
comprehended.
2. Arising of suffering (paticca samuppada). Suffering is caused through thirsting for pleasures of the senses, tanha, through
desiring that things should be different from the way they are. Life as it happens now depends on the result of previous acts carried out
in ignorance of the divine law, such distorted activity necessarily producing distorted results. This is the effect of clinging to the
transient as though the transient were substantial. Forgetting that life is a moving pattern, there is a clinging to life and thus a
clinging to death. Change appears as suffering because of the desire to possess or selfishly enjoy something. It is only through
attachment to things that change in them becomes distressing. The forcing of experience through cravings creates a future prison which
may, however, be escaped from through understanding the nature of the process. The second truth is to be abandoned.
3. Cessation of suffering (nirvana). The cessation of suffering is
supreme bliss and final liberation, with the ending of ignorance and craving experienced like health after illness as the cause of
suffering is removed. Although it is easier to speak of nirvana in terms of what it is not rather than what it is, this does not
necessarily imply that nirvana is annihilation, since there is bliss. It lies beyond positive and negative. The third truth is to be made
visible.
4. The way to cessation of suffering (eightfold ariya path). The ordinary (lokiya) and transcendent (lokuttara) paths are not so much
a set of steps as a naturally flowing progression of states of mind, the transcendent path leading to harmonious balance with transcending
of ordinary understanding and the acquisition of direct knowledge of unconditioned truth. This is the middle way, majjhima patipada,
avoiding extremes of indulgence or rigorous self-mortification. The fourth truth is to be brought into being, bhavana, meditation.
Context One of the paths of calming according to Buddhist teaching.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:22:50 -0400 From: "Wonderer"
To: "Kundalini" Subject: Lucid Dreams
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello List Mates,
Last night I suddenly realized I was having a lucid dream. That is,
I realized while dreaming that it was a dream. I was a little overzealous at that point, and I thought "cool ... I can be or do
anything" I decided to be "supermom". I started, with some difficulty, to transform into this character, rising slowly in the
air, and looking quite different than I started. My family (in the dream) all screamed and ran away. [I forgot that the other people in
dreams are real!] I could not sustain the dream any longer, and suddenly was staring into the darkness of my own eyelids.
It's ok if you want to laugh. My subconscious is often poking fun at
me.
Anyway, I'll have to remember this in the future. I can think of two significances to this dream: 1) Some sort of psychobabble re
wanting to be supermom (any psychology majors out there are free to jump in here); 2) The difficulty (even in a lucid dream) of
transforming at will got me thinking about the dream we are all in. I think we can turn this dream into a "lucid" dream too by
remembering what it is. The degree of our success will match the degree of our belief that the core of our reality lies inward.
Peace,
Cathy
[ "It is no more surprising to be born twice than to be born
once." -- Voltaire. ] Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:44:44 PDT
From: "b bah" To: madammumATnospamptialaska.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: "under psychic a............"
Message-ID:
Hi Valerie,
Hopeing, of course that you are mistaken, as I've been there. What did you do precedeing the onset of the feeling that something was very
wrong?. Did you do anything to trigger an attack? A gnostic father in San Francisco told me a story about Buddha.
Buddha was ofcourse sitting under a bo tree, when a demon appeared before him, ranting, gesticulating ,screaming dire threats. The father
said that Buddha told the demon that he rejects this gift(the demon), and to return to the sender.
I repeated this over and over, in the shower, on freeways, when I'd start to become hoarse, 'would "think-talk"(say it mentally). My
"present" unfortunatly was "given" to me repeatedly. So 'am hoping this hasn't/doesn't happen to you.
Are there any Native American Shamans in your area? Two Kahunas, one in Las Vegas and one in Hilo, Ha. helped me immeasuerably. Don't
suppose there are any Santeria priestesses in your area ??? Love, barb
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:49:08 -0500
From: TAvalon To: Wonderer
CC: Kundalini Subject: Re: Lucid Dreams
Message-ID:
Hi,
Lucid dreams are something I have desired for a very long time. I could never seem to place the discipline to it so perhaps the want was not as
great as I think. But a couple of months ago I had my first lucid dream and as I always promised myself I would fly if I had a lucid dream, fly
I did. It was wonderful though I was surprised that I had some fear of heights during my daredevil antics. Specifically I remember soaring over
a tree and as I dipped on the other side I had a fear that I was going to hit the ground.
Funny thing is the lucidity did not remain. I got sidetrackd by the
dream and forgot to be lucid. :) It sure was fun while it lasted though.
Blessed Be,
Terri Avalon
Wonderer wrote:
> > Hello List Mates,
> > Last night I suddenly realized I was having a lucid dream. That is,
> I realized while dreaming that it was a dream. I was a little > overzealous at that point, and I thought "cool ... I can be or do
> anything" I decided to be "supermom". I started, with some > difficulty, to transform into this character, rising slowly in the
> air, and looking quite different than I started. My family (in the > dream) all screamed and ran away. [I forgot that the other people in
> dreams are real!] I could not sustain the dream any longer, and > suddenly was staring into the darkness of my own eyelids.
> > It's ok if you want to laugh. My subconscious is often poking fun at
> me. >
> Anyway, I'll have to remember this in the future. I can think of two > significances to this dream: 1) Some sort of psychobabble re
> wanting to be supermom (any psychology majors out there are free to > jump in here); 2) The difficulty (even in a lucid dream) of
> transforming at will got me thinking about the dream we are all in. > I think we can turn this dream into a "lucid" dream too by
> remembering what it is. The degree of our success will match the > degree of our belief that the core of our reality lies inward.
> > Peace,
> > Cathy
> > [ "It is no more surprising to be born twice than to be born
> once." -- Voltaire. ] Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:21:25 -0600
From: jason spencer To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
Subject: Re: Are Chakras Real Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Hi ya Hijeed,
My notes are rough but I believe we can do it.
Ok she starts out by saying that just say we are given $100.00 per day in
energy which is held in our chakras. You can give $40.00 to parental criticism (how your parents didn't understand you when you were a kid) $20.00
on the past relationship that didn't work and $10.00 on how your high school class mates made fun of you in school.
That only leaves $30.00 worth of energy for your whole days activities..
She says think of yourself as an energetic banker. Make investments with chakra. energy and they comeback in which is called returns. every
investment has a return some people invest all their energy in relationships, house, $.... It has to return more than I invested.
If the investment is negative you have to take out a loan. You can even
borrow from other people. Or a fast loan from cell tissues. The more energy you keep in present time the slower you age. Bad investments age faster.
You don't have the life-force to keep going. You have to choose in thoughts that'll give return.
In the physical body every cell has some kind of effect on the whole the
electrical body is the same.
You can feel your circuit leaving your body breathing prawna into that thought. You could say "get back here you've been gone for too long." ( The
process of taking control of what you put your energy into)
She says that if there is to be an energy leak its probably in the first 3 chakras. They cannot be reasoned with.
She also says that when you get up in the morning and take a shower and get
dressed, this is the healing process of returning these energy circuits to your body. Your literally washing down and "recharging your electrical
system
1st chk. Tribal
Your tribe believes in she same beliefs you and your tribe are sharing
energy simultaneously. If your in danger your first chakra sends out your energy to others in your tribe and makes connection and others come to your
rescue.
She says that when your born your parents already make investments from this chakra already for you. Your tribe isn't just family it is your job. It is
us here on the internet with the same beliefs.
(Ive had a personal experience that once one of my friends has totally lost control He was trying to get his girlfriend to understand him of why he was
feeling the way he did and she wasn't hearing anything he had to say at all. It got physically violent. He was throwing her around trying to get her to
listen. I knew and understood what his trip was but she just wouldn't listen so finally he grabbed her by the hair facing me pulled out a gun pointed it
at her head looked me straight in the eyes and fired the gun directly into the cubbard directly in front of him about 5 feet to my left. My My to
say the least it was a high energy situation. I didn't know what to do and was screaming for Jon in my head and lo and behold he came runnin thru the
door screaming what the hells going on. He had a gut feeling while driving around that at home there was danger and immediately came running home. )
Connection with nature natures running through you and you with it
community teaches loyalty tribe- physical survival
social skills sense of honor among others
the loyalty is literally vibrates into the blood.
Ammune system, protective field
2nd
control and power
sex power $ center of weaponry.
1 to 1 relationships
inadequate energy in this chakra make people need to be in control of you . Literally send energy through your chakra to theirs.
This is where my notes end. I only rented pt 1 which is through the first 2
chakras. I will rent the 2nd part and take better notes. Im sorry that this is all so sketchy but here philosophy hits home with me.
Love and Peace Aimee
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:52:36 -0600 From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: "Kundalini List" Subject: Is mail getting through?
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDA5C0.ABE72CC0"
I am recieving returned mail and don´t see any posts from the K list.
Is everything allright with the list?
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:05:54 -0400 From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Snake dream
Message-Id:
Nancy wrote:
> >Seems like snake dreams are recurring for me...not sure if anyone else
>also has these. Are these another symptom of kundalini?
>Third fragment: >I'm having oral sex with another woman. I am not homosexual and realize
>this in the dream and wonder what the hell I'm doing with this nameless, >faceless woman.
SignalFire writes:
Hi Nancy -- I've had snake and lesbian dreams too. I'm not a lesbian and I
felt that I had been worshipping some immense feminine force or archtype by performing the oral sex in the dream. Partly I felt this way because the
woman I was with was slightly larger than human scale. Her face was extraordinary looking too.
I have had a lot of snake dreams too. Surfing snake-back down a mountain,
walking barefoot through a nest of rattlesnakes -- I felt like these were tests.
--SignalFire
Performance is life! Entertainment is death! --Rob Brezsny
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:46:13 -0600 From: jason spencer
To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" Subject: Re: Snake dream
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
> >
> Hi Nancy -- I've had snake and lesbian dreams too. I'm not a lesbian and I > felt that I had been worshipping some immense feminine force or archtype by
> performing the oral sex in the dream. Partly I felt this way because the > woman I was with was slightly larger than human scale. Her face was
> extraordinary looking too.
Ive read in several places that when one comes into full enlightenment one experiences and knows both male and female energy. Its about being complete
not about being lesbian. Aimee
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:52:23 -0700 From: Mary Ezzell
To: Subject: unsubing test
Message-Id:
Testing to see if I'm unsubscribed yet.
Trying meATnospamdragontree.com as return address.
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:53:18 EDT From: Dave08812ATnospamaol.com
To: deliriumATnospamionet.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Check Out This Cool Website
Message-ID:
I not only do this for 3HO, but for other groups as well. I stand firm in what I say, and I will
not give an inch to people who say I am being hateful. I forgive my enemies, but I am not going to let them hurt others. I will not espouse what a real
yoga teacher is. Don't attack me. Look at the facts. For some reason I am not getting the Kundalini I-list delivered to me. Yes, I was obnoxious in the
past, but this is a different can of beans here.
Sincerely,
Dave
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 21:57:28 +0200 From: Michael Zimmermann
To: Dave08812ATnospamaol.com CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Check out This cool website Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dave08812ATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Go to www.rickross.com. And look up 3HO. I do this so that people will look
> for a real yoga teacher, and not get hurt by this outfit.
I agree.
The neccessaty for such a critical site (as the Rick Ross site seems to be at first glance)
is our overwhelming greed for spiritual experiences - the ego wants to become God
(or at least a spiritual teacher).
A citation from the 3HO - guru (found at the Rick Ross site): "Everybody who is in 3HO is going to be a [yoga] teacher, period.
Whether you like it or you don´t. Either you will ultimately end up a teacher or you will leave us".
Yogi Bhajan, Winter Solstice--1973
That's taking people by their greed.
Michael Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 15:35:25 +0100
From: New World Orders mailbox To: Dave08812ATnospamaol.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: What da F**&^!*??? (was: Check Out This Cool Website)
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Dave08812ATnospamaol.com wrote:
> I not only do this for 3HO, but for other groups as well. I stand firm in what > I say, and I will
> not give an inch to people who say I am being hateful.
Sorry, Dave, but I have *absolutely no clue* what youre talking about here. That's why I asked. Who's saying you're being hateful? What is it you are standing firm in saying? (say
it, dave, don't just talk about saying it...help us out here)
> I forgive my enemies, > but I am not going to let them hurt others. I will not espouse what a real
> yoga teacher is. Don't attack me. Look at the facts.
If you'd explain exactly what it is you're trying to say here it might help ...really, I'm totally in the dark as to what you're going on about. I'm not attacking you...I am asking
you what the heck you are talking about, that's all. Your post was rather, uh, cryptic...and this one is also a bit fuzzy as well. What *is* 3HO, what are you *doing* for them, what is
it you are standing firm in saying...see...you're not really saying *anything* clear here, just saying you are taking *some* sort of stance and I dunno what that stance is. I see now
by connecting to the site you spoke of that it is some sort of "cult intervention" site...what does 3H0 have to do with this, whose "side" are you on...what are you trying to
tell us?
Is my question clear enough?
> For some reason I am not > getting the Kundalini I-list delivered to me. Yes, I was obnoxious in the
> past, but this is a different can of beans here. >
You were obnoxious? In the past? On this list? See, you're going off on another obtuse
tangent and not explaining what it is you're talking about. I don't recognize your name nor do I know you from Adam (as the old saying goes)...as far as not getting the K-I list (which
is what? it's not the Kundalini list, is it the "I AM" list? Are these posts cross-posted to the K-list?) What's going on...had it occurred to you it might be a technical problem? Then
again, I don't know this because you don't reveal enough information to tell *what* the problem is...it seems to me you are talking not to the K-list but to some other people on
another list...and now I'm completely confused.
In search of clarity...
Brightest Clearest Blessings to you...Kath Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:52:34 -0400
From: "Wonderer" To: "TAvalon"
Cc: "Kundalini" Subject: Re: Lucid Dreams
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Terri,
If you have another lucid dream, and you are lucid enough to think of
it, try affecting the behavior of the other people in your dream. (Make them disappear, or wear different clothes, etc.) I cannot do
so; I find that only the scenery or my own person are affected by my will in the lucid dream.
Given that and the fact that I have had interactive dreams, where
people, have had the same dream and have been mad about something I have done in the dream, I think most or maybe all of the dreams
involve people playing themselves.
I also wrote a while back about the Jungian method for inducing lucid dreams, if you are interested: Take your sleep periods two hours at
a time, with wakened periods of two hours in between. Do this experiment over a weekend, when you have time. My personal
experience was great, but I found that I woke up still having the dream one time, and it was too spooky for me at the time.
Cathy
*******************************
T Avalon wrote:
> >Lucid dreams are something I have desired for a very long time. I
could >never seem to place the discipline to it so perhaps the want was not
as >great as I think. But a couple of months ago I had my first lucid
dream >and as I always promised myself I would fly if I had a lucid dream,
fly >I did. It was wonderful though I was surprised that I had some fear
of >heights during my daredevil antics. Specifically I remember soaring
over >a tree and as I dipped on the other side I had a fear that I was
going >to hit the ground.
> >Funny thing is the lucidity did not remain. I got sidetrackd by the
>dream and forgot to be lucid. :) It sure was fun while it lasted >though.
> >Blessed Be,
> >Terri Avalon
> >Wonderer wrote:
>> >> Hello List Mates,
>> >> Last night I suddenly realized I was having a lucid dream. That
is, >> I realized while dreaming that it was a dream. I was a little
>> overzealous at that point, and I thought "cool ... I can be or do >> anything" I decided to be "supermom". I started, with some
>> difficulty, to transform into this character, rising slowly in the >> air, and looking quite different than I started. My family (in
the >> dream) all screamed and ran away. [I forgot that the other people
in >> dreams are real!] I could not sustain the dream any longer, and
>> suddenly was staring into the darkness of my own eyelids. >>
>> It's ok if you want to laugh. My subconscious is often poking fun at
>> me. >>
>> Anyway, I'll have to remember this in the future. I can think of two
>> significances to this dream: 1) Some sort of psychobabble re >> wanting to be supermom (any psychology majors out there are free
to >> jump in here); 2) The difficulty (even in a lucid dream) of
>> transforming at will got me thinking about the dream we are all in.
>> I think we can turn this dream into a "lucid" dream too by >> remembering what it is. The degree of our success will match the
>> degree of our belief that the core of our reality lies inward. >>
>> Peace, >>
>> Cathy >>
>> [ "It is no more surprising to be born twice than to be born >> once." -- Voltaire. ]
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:10:23 EDT
From: MoonrisempATnospamaol.com To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
HI,
I need to unsubscribe while I go on vacation.
Thanks,
Barbara Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 16:36:46 +0100
From: Kathy Bates To: Dave08812ATnospamaol.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: What da F**&^!*??? (was: Check Out This Cool Website)
Message-Id:
Now was that *so very* difficult to do?
That was what I was asking you to explain. Thankyou.--Kath
Dave wrote:
Date: 2 Jul 98 23:35:10 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Anonymity Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi.
How do I put this... er.. today I stopped existing.
For the better chunk of daylight hours today, since waking, the past
did not once exist. I felt no guilt, no aversion, no desire, no history, no bitterness or hatred, no remorse or lack of worth. It was
the first day, the very first day. Suddenly I had stepped out of my own stupid little world and although there was this body, I hadn't
woken up from the night.
In the night, something happened, and on it happening this time I recall that it has also happened once before not many weeks ago. It
was like a dream, but with strange clarity. It was all very dark, black, and it was like in a large cave with no exits. It was a space,
a continuum, and it was the entirity of me. The walls were so close rather than projected way beyond the horizon, that it was almost
getting claustrophobic. I, as the seperated ego self, was darting about in something of a panick. There were life forms there, most
extraordinary creatures, and amazing colours. And I knew not of anything outside of this dream continuum. It were as though the entire
universe were solid rock and this was the only hole. There was panick and the creatures, and myself, scarpered frantically around trying to
avoid something that was coming down from above. A giant pillar of white light, striking the ground like a laserbeam, sending ripples of
exploding distortions through the air like heat, throwing me down on the ground, caught in the blast.
So, when I woke up, I was a completely new person. Empty. Clear. I was
nothingness. Totally anomymous. I had so much awareness, so much attention. I did not feel guilty about anything whatsoever, and such
was the contrast to how I had been feeling. Supremely confident, I did things which seem normally far to challenging, lazing around in the
living room in front of everyone else with no feelings of pressure or conflict or embarassment. And I laughed, really, genuinely, and it
were as though I had never laughed before. Forgiveness was the very essense of what it was to be there. Everything had been forgiven.
Blind to the past.
It was only about an hour or two ago that I started getting flashbacks again and the memory-self started to be reincarnated, reborn, and so
has returned the familiar self, in its continuum, as if nothing had hapened. And that is because, nothing did happen. At least, though, I
seem to have a greater general bouyancy now. I figure that the pillar of light was a kundalini thing, maybe a lightening bolt from God
itself.
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
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