1998/06/30 23:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #490
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 490
Today's Topics:
I've had enough! [ "Dhyani \"Debbie\"" <debhATnospammindsprin ]
I need help! [ "Dhyani \"Debbie\"" <debhATnospammindsprin ]
Hypnotherapy & Grief [ valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska. ]
Re: I've had enough! [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Light [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: I need help! [ valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska. ]
Re: How to subscribe? [ valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska. ]
Re: Bizarro [ TarmuzATnospamaol.com ]
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:56:29 -0400
From: "Dhyani \"Debbie\"" <debhATnospammindspring.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: I've had enough!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980630215629.006b4ea0ATnospampop.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is how Paul responded to my latest email blasting everyone for wasting
valuable time on this list:
"I find it
intriguing as you do to see how much has come out of the woodwork in
reaction to the supposed threat of someone evil being nearby."
First of all I don't get kicks, as you seem to get, from threatening people
with evil energy. It is interesting to notice how much people project what
they think someone else is saying by revealing how they look at others. By
your statements you show that you are the one who is intrigued by getting
people to react to you. Are you running some sort of psychological
experiment?
"Some people on the list are hipocrits, espousing conduct-rules left right
and center only to violate them in the next breath."
And so are you the hypocrite police or something who is supposed to
maintain law and order?
"We all learn just
as much from having a truly wise person around as we do from having a
wiseguy' (like myself?) around."
Don't be so certain that anyone learns anything from you except how to spot
someone who is truly disturbed.
"I wonder if maybe the list had been
too cosy for a while and needed a bit of contrast to counteract the
spiritual imagery and draw some people out of their hiding places. I
hope things will die down and get real again."
I'm not sure what you mean by getting real but this list is way too
irrelevant for me. It is directly because of you and the others who waste
my time that I am unsubscribing from this list.
For what it is worth, I feel there should be two lists, one for people who
have not had kundalini experiences and what to chit chat about them and
another for those who are struggling with real experiences. Lot's of
people like to make small talk about enlightenment. But those who have
been through it know it is not an easy path and are only interested in
serious conversation. I would invite anyone who is SERIOUS about
discussing the subject to send me email and I will respond. But I am
leaving this list!
Dhyani
'
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:30:27 -0400
From: "Dhyani \"Debbie\"" <debhATnospammindspring.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: I need help!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980630223027.006c68d8ATnospampop.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I know I said in my last email I was getting off this list. I still want
to if it continues with irrelevant chatter but I am torn because I really
need somewhere to go with these experiences.
In one of my last postings I mentioned I had met a man who looked exactly
like the man who triggered by kundalini experience five years ago. Well, I
think I also mentioned that even before I opened the door and saw him, all
of my chakras opened simultaneously and I heard the words in my head say
"He's here". I had an intense feeling of certainty about this man that I
could not explain. As I talked to him I also said I kept hearing the word
"gift" in my head. It felt as if God was giving me a gift.
Anyway, I called him the next day and asked him for his birth information
and mentioned it seemed we had some interesting similarities: we have both
been through legal hell at the hands of my ex-husband (his wife used my ex
as an attorney to screw him over). Then I asked if he wanted to get
together and continue the conversation and he said he would call me next week.
Well, since I saw him, my energy has been going crazy. The energy is
rushing through me very quickly and I can't seem to bring myself down. I
have been eating meat, walking in the woods and laying on the earth,
sleeping, writing, drawing but nothing works. I don't feel psychically ill
as I have from some people's energy but it feels as if I have a very dense
rod that feels like steel going down the front of my body. It feels so
strong and intense that it seems I might be able to push it through the
wall (I have not tried to do this).
I want the energy to stop but I can't make it go away.
I have also been feeling intensely paranoid since I spoke with him on the
phone. I am thinking now that maybe he misinterpreted why I wanted his
birth data since I did not really explain myself and he called me
"sweetheart" at the end of the conversation. I was so stunned by this I
didn't even respond. I just tried to call him at home tonight to make
certain he did not misunderstand my intentions. A woman answered the
phone. I don't even know if he is married and now I feel so freaked out
that I am even showing any interest in him as a friend. She said she would
give him the message but he didn't call back.
I am thinking of cancelling this man from doing my glass block windows on
the 16th of July unless he calls me back. I am so paranoid about meeting
new people. I have been living in a cave for the past five years since the
kundalini energy began. I spent three years in a state of deep grief over
David's death from another life and this new man, Bob, could be his
identical twin. I do not know how to handle this. I could also just be
extremely paranoid right now. The woman who answered the phone could be
his daughter (he told me he runs his business with her - she's 20). And
maybe he has just been too busy to call back.
Can anyone else relate to this level of paranoia about meeting new people,
especially ones who light up all you chakras and look like someone you
might have known in another life? I'm sure no one can match all these
circumstances but I would like some reassurance right now. I honestly have
nobody I can talk to anymore about this stuff.
Dhyani
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:12:32 -0800
From: valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Hypnotherapy & Grief
Message-ID: <3599A91B.1BE8ATnospamptialaska.net>
> >Val wrote:
> >How does one just process this grief & get ON with it? is it just a
> >matter of *time*? Or, does it transcend time?
> >
> SignalFire Writes:
> >
> There are several *really* effective things you can do in hypnotherapy to
> end the suffering of grief when you are ready for it to end. I wish I had
> known this 15 years ago ...
Really? Are you able to elaborate more?
I have been curious about hypnotherapy lately, although there are no
qualified practitioners on this island (YET - public *hint, hint*!)
vc
************************
Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before.
Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: 1 Jul 98 04:06:54 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I've had enough!
Message-Id: <3599B395.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Dear Dhyani/Debbie,
> "I find it
> intriguing as you do to see how much has come out of the woodwork in
> reaction to the supposed threat of someone evil being nearby."
> First of all I don't get kicks, as you seem to get, from threatening people
> with evil energy.
That is cruel. I do not intentionally do any such thing and if I know
I am doing it I stop.
All I meant was that some people may have been hiding in the shadows
of a brighter light and perhaps needed to be faced with someone with
`an ego' in order to test the integrity of their own reality. That's
all. I'm not boasting about it, and I feel it is a fact that a select
few people have proven to be susceptible. Not necessarily yourself.
Nor was this a motive of mine, it just happens.
> It is interesting to notice how much people project what
> they think someone else is saying by revealing how they look at others.
You can read that into anything if you want to.
> By your statements you show that you are the one who is intrigued by
> getting
> people to react to you. Are you running some sort of psychological
> experiment?
No. You're wrong there. I am interested in psychology and mind and
consciousness, if that brings about any overtones. I am not only
interested in what's happening to my mind, I am interested in mind in
general. I am not deliberately trying to elicit a reaction for my own
benefit. Maybe I do here and there but so does everyone. I'm not
/testing/ you or anyone, I'm not trying to come up with an analytical
assessment of everything.
I post some things that I know /I/ don't necessarily need to say for
my own benefit, but which might give a clearer picture for other
people, expand their mind, put names to faces, and generally use some
of the better things I am gifted with as an aid in their own path.
Take it or leave it. I am not lying when I write that something is
`my' experience or that it is something happening to `me'. That is
fact. It is so. But you are mistaken if you think I only write this
stuff for my own benefit all the time.
> "Some people on the list are hipocrits, espousing conduct-rules left
> right
> and center only to violate them in the next breath."
>
> And so are you the hypocrite police or something who is supposed to
> maintain law and order?
Did I say that? No, you're assuming it as an extension of the context
in which you had that thought. I may not be one to talk, as I am a
hipocrit also and I might well espouse `conduct rules'. That doesn't
mean I cannot simply observe it in others. It's only an observation
not an enforcement. I have no intention or desire to `moderate' the
list if that's what you mean and I trust that Mystress will see that I
don't.
> "We all learn just
> as much from having a truly wise person around as we do from having
> a wiseguy' (like myself?) around."
> Don't be so certain that anyone learns anything from you except how
> to spot someone who is truly disturbed.
Did I say that anyone had actually learned anything?
Perhaps it would help if I tell you that I am a very /precice/ person,
and when I say something I mean precicely and ONLY the thing that I
say. I do not like assumptions and I do not write with an intention
that you should assume or get implications unless I deliberately make
that so.
Possibly nobody has learnt anything at all from me. That's fine.
And, do you not think that the ability to spot somebody who is truly
disturbed is a bad thing to have learned? Do you think that being in
the presence of an ego-driven maniac such as myself (supposedly) is
not going to `test /anybody's/ integrity? Many people have been
patient, some have not. The weaknesses have come to the fore. So in a
way, it is still a route by which things come to light. And that is
why I said someone such as myself is just as much a teacher as those
who are wiser, given that each of us is individual and are not able to
be taught anything other than what we allow or are susceptible to.
Furthermore I resent being called `truly disturbed'. I may not be the
most `spiritual' person and I might be a bit simple but there is no
need to get personal about it.
> "I wonder if maybe the list had been
> too cosy for a while and needed a bit of contrast to counteract the
> spiritual imagery and draw some people out of their hiding places. I
> hope things will die down and get real again."
> I'm not sure what you mean by getting real but this list is way too
> irrelevant for me. It is directly because of you and the others who
> waste
> my time that I am unsubscribing from this list.
Do see that it is /your/ decision. Freedom.
And all I meant when I said I was /wondering/ about there having been
people hiding in the safehaven of spiritual imagery, was that I was
wondering. Not asserting it, or saying that I intended it, or that I
did it, or desired to or still desire to. I was just wondering if such
a thing may have been taking place.
> For what it is worth, I feel there should be two lists, one for
> people who
> have not had kundalini experiences and what to chit chat about them
> and
> another for those who are struggling with real experiences.
? I am not sure what the distinction is there. You are judging another
person's kundalini experiences to be `less worthy'? As if they are
less real or less intense or less genuine? Just because I talk about
it doesn't alter what the thing is you know. The word is not the
thing.
I may come accross as treating your social and casual relationships
and attitudes with too much of a `businesslike' or serious manner. If
that is a problem then I will work on it. I don't know that it is. You
can interpret it as being cold if you want. It does not, however, mean
that my heart has never stirred.
> Lot's of
> people like to make small talk about enlightenment. But those who
> have
> been through it know it is not an easy path and are only interested
> in
> serious conversation.
If you are in such an enlightened position, my `egocentric' activities
should not be in any way an enemy of yours. You suggest otherwise. And
to suggest that you personally have a desire or want for seriousness,
is in my opinion false.
> I would invite anyone who is SERIOUS about
> discussing the subject to send me email and I will respond. But I
> am leaving this list!
I am sorry that you are doing that and that you feel it is because of
me. I, in what I am or who I am or how I behave and interact with the
world, am obviously affecting some part of you that you are not able
to transcend yet, or something like that. If this place is a needed
resource for you I plead that you stay and use it as such and just try
and ignore me and delete all my messages as if I weren't here. Give me
the total cold-turkey if you want.
I certainly didn't see this decision of yours coming so it must be
something you yourself have individually decided. Freedom.
You said in your subject line that you've had enough. Maybe in
surrendering like this you will find peace. I hope so, and I wish you
the best.
I apologise to other list members for this post.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 1 Jul 98 04:28:57 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Light
Message-Id: <3599B9F7.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi.
I hope I don't sound too overjoyous, but isn't it the most seriously
spiritual and enlightening experience when you suddenly and for the
first and last time catch sight of something that you have always
assumed only to immediately see without interpretation or comment that
it is constructed of pointlessness and deception and is a /complete/
mistake with /absolutely/ no reason for being there?
<cue usual personal example-story>
All of my life there has been a desire to please other people, to keep
them happy. Always I have strived to keep them happy. I have always
believed that it was necessary and safe to avoid unpleasantness in
others at all costs, to kind of worship them. So intense has always
been my desire to please others, I would put all of my own feelings
aside even if they were intense (and they are), and would not want to
appear weak.
Yesterday in one of these sudden illuminations, I saw for the very
first time in my life (and I really do mean that), in an instant, the
whole "got to keep others happy" thing. I saw there to be /absolutely/
no link between that attitude (and everything it entails) and the
actual, real person I was aiming it at. None at all. Totally distinct.
Detatched.
There was some example person just standing there, and in front of
`him' in a distinct, enclosed package, was this entire worshipping
thing. And the instant of seeing it was to see its true nature. And
all I saw there was a really silly mistake, a total pointlessness.
Just a structure, a blob, and it was unnecessary. There was no reason
for it. My entire life I had spent assuming it was an inherant part of
reality, that it was something I had to strive for, and the right way
to be. But here it was, utterly pointless, utterly unjustified and
uncalled for. In fact, it was the most serious feeling that people did
not in any way /deserve/ it! I think that works both ways. They do not
deserve it in the sense that they are not as good as I make them out
to be, and in the sense that it is in a way an offensive thing for my
own benefit.
That state of light, of sudden illumination, really is like someone
switching a light on. Suddenly it's "Oh my god, how could I...". This
kind of experience is, for me, the most genuine occurence of
spirituality and reality. It may not be as complete as what I suspect
will be an observation of the uncalled-for actions of having not loved
myself for all my life, but it is the only thing I know to be a true
moment of revelation, of /revealing/. And it is so shocking that it is
the first time you have EVER seen such a thing. The entire foundation
of a major chunk of your reality suddenly shown to be totally
unfounded.
I wonder what it might be like to be in that state of immediate
beginning and end, first time and last time, eternally, where all you
see is that everything is useless except love.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:16:57 -0800
From: valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: "Dhyani \"Debbie\"" <debhATnospammindspring.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I need help!
Message-ID: <3599B830.385AATnospamptialaska.net>
Dhyani "Debbie" wrote:
>
> I know I said in my last email I was getting off this list. I still want
> to if it continues with irrelevant chatter but I am torn because I really
> need somewhere to go with these experiences.
first of all, what is irrelevant to one person may be quite relevant to
others! Remember - using the *delete* key is better than sex, in some
cases! <grin>
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> In one of my last postings I mentioned I had met a man who looked exactly
> like the man who triggered by kundalini experience five years ago. Well, I
> think I also mentioned that even before I opened the door and saw him, all
> of my chakras opened simultaneously and I heard the words in my head say
> "He's here". I had an intense feeling of certainty about this man that I
> could not explain. As I talked to him I also said I kept hearing the word
> "gift" in my head. It felt as if God was giving me a gift.
sounds exactly like a metaphysical, perhaps "wishful" interpretation to
good ol' fashioned "lust" to me!
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> Anyway, I called him the next day and asked him for his birth information
> and mentioned it seemed we had some interesting similarities: we have both
> been through legal hell at the hands of my ex-husband (his wife used my ex
> as an attorney to screw him over). Then I asked if he wanted to get
> together and continue the conversation and he said he would call me next week.
"what's your sign?" has been bandied about as a "pick up line of choice"
since the late seventies, remember? <grin>
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> Well, since I saw him, my energy has been going crazy. The energy is
> rushing through me very quickly and I can't seem to bring myself down. I
> have been eating meat, walking in the woods and laying on the earth,
> sleeping, writing, drawing but nothing works. I don't feel psychically ill
> as I have from some people's energy but it feels as if I have a very dense
> rod that feels like steel going down the front of my body. It feels so
> strong and intense that it seems I might be able to push it through the
> wall (I have not tried to do this).
slow now, with inner eye, visualize moving that energy upwards toward
the crown chakra, opening like a lotus, & breathe VERY deeply into the
lowest part of the lungs
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> I want the energy to stop but I can't make it go away.
> I have also been feeling intensely paranoid since I spoke with him on the
> phone. I am thinking now that maybe he misinterpreted why I wanted his
> birth data since I did not really explain myself and he called me
> "sweetheart" at the end of the conversation. I was so stunned by this I
> didn't even respond. I just tried to call him at home tonight to make
> certain he did not misunderstand my intentions. A woman answered the
> phone. I don't even know if he is married and now I feel so freaked out
> that I am even showing any interest in him as a friend. She said she would
> give him the message but he didn't call back.
time for *detachment*!
in the mind's eye again, put this man into a rose, any color that comes
up, outside your personal atmosphere. Ground the rose & the man to the
center of the earth, & then GIVE THIS MAN BACK ALL THAT ENERGY!
SOunds like you don't OWN it, if it's from him - give it back! Fill up
the rose, & when it feels full, dissipate it in some way with
blessings. Create another & do it again if it feels like you need to.
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> I am thinking of cancelling this man from doing my glass block windows on
> the 16th of July unless he calls me back. I am so paranoid about meeting
> new people. I have been living in a cave for the past five years since the
> kundalini energy began. I spent three years in a state of deep grief over
> David's death from another life and this new man, Bob, could be his
> identical twin. I do not know how to handle this. I could also just be
> extremely paranoid right now. The woman who answered the phone could be
> his daughter (he told me he runs his business with her - she's 20). And
> maybe he has just been too busy to call back.
*detachment* - there's no way to speculate & only letting events flow
naturally will tell the eventual outcome anyhow!
Can't you remove your mind away? Go read a gripping novel, the kind you
cannot put down to sleep at night, paint a painting - put all that
energy into the painting, write a song & sing it loudly with a zither,
or whatever instrument you play. Obsession does NOT pay; leads to
compulsions!
Dhyani\"Debbie\"":
> Can anyone else relate to this level of paranoia about meeting new people,
> especially ones who light up all you chakras and look like someone you
> might have known in another life? I'm sure no one can match all these
> circumstances but I would like some reassurance right now. I honestly have
> nobody I can talk to anymore about this stuff.
yeah, I can. I moved back to Alaska in 1995 by myself with my very young
daughter, & all my friends were either dead or otherwise gone. The
people who remain seemingly have consciousness so dense it couldn't be
cut with a machete. We're talkin "environmentalist hatin mill workers &
related nepotism industries" here (Yee ha!)
Anyway, finally working & met a new gal acupuncturist who is working on
my back & things for bartered computer programming & art. She is my
"doctor", and definitely a good connection! And - the guy I working for
(sometimes) he's Alaska Native, happily married, been around the world
in the military (worldly), graphic designers, & no *threat*. We're both
just hysterically funny & make fun of people alot to stay sane, so -
we're like friends now. And - the borough mayor is my friend from last
decade, a very shrewd man, but he is always off to Juneau, or Washington
DC; just got back from Kanayama... he's good people.
That makes three people, 2 whom I can discuss the weather & intellectual
topics, one whose working on an energy level & can really talk to.
I have mastered the art of *big city walls*, & with my 'street sense'
can walk through the melee of tourists & drunks with a prayer & emerge
pretty unscathed, but I don't look at anyone. Call this 'paranoia', or
call it 'self preservation'; whatever works!
Much healing to you, Dhyani\"Debbie\"" !
:-)
vc
************************
Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before.
Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:42:03 -0800
From: valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: "muchmoreATnospamonelist.com" <ogrATnospamica.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: How to subscribe?
Message-ID: <3599BE10.1712ATnospamptialaska.net>
muchmoreATnospamonelist.com wrote:
<snip>
> I had a very special experience myself... in fact
> three, including the manifestation of three
> drawings which bypassed my mind and could not have
> originated from it; five "past life recalls"
> (including one "as a river"! in North Eastern
> Canada); and perhaps even more importantly, a
> spontaneous out-of-body projection (at the age of
> 12, in Paris, France) which sent me instantly into
> deep space (but not the "physical space" that
> scientists and astronomers are studying).
> However, I am not sure if these experiences really
> relate to kundalini awakening. They might be
> something else, and perhaps off-topic for this
> list.
Hey Alain!
I do not know of Frans Storm, & am unsure of the http:// website you
speak of.
But your experiences are fascinating to me (for one), especially a
past life as a river!
I wonder if kundalini awakenings are as diverse as the amount of
individuals (5.8 billion & rising)? Psychic phenomenon exists
independent of an the analysis of consciousness, imho.
Sure, c'mon in & join the kundalini-l list! Your energy would be
welcome, I'm sure!
;-)
vc
************************
Q: How does Bill Gates Change a light bulb?
A: He doesn't. He just declares darkness a standard.
Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:53:10 EDT
From: TarmuzATnospamaol.com
To: deliriumATnospamionet.net
Cc: CC: CC:CC:lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com (Lobster),
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com (Kundalini-L),
dmargolisATnospamabm.com (Dan Margolis)
Subject: Re: Bizarro
Message-ID: <99e370ea.3599c0b7ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-06-30 20:48:55 EDT, you write:
<< Tarmuz wrote:
> A bit like a micturcosm of a macroclasm
Hmm...lessee...urination? Big *what?* Wha?...<puzzled grin>
Help me out here...I don't get what you're saying.
--Kath >>
Words are like that... macro clasms.
Tarmuz
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