1998/06/13 17:08
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #456
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 456
Today's Topics:
Ego's truth [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: the wonder of dark places [ MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com ]
Re: the wonder of dark places [ ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Ego's truth [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Thank You Avatar and List Members [ Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com> ]
Re: Continuity [ ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com ]
Dark Places and Cycles [ Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com> ]
Re: Selfless service [ AfperryATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Dark Places and Cycles [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
RE: Continuity [ "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com> ]
RE: Who is there (was RE: Why would [ "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com> ]
RE: the wonder of dark places [ "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com> ]
Re: Dark Places and Cycles [ Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com> ]
Date: 13 Jun 98 17:51:30 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ego's truth
Message-Id: <3582B91B.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
:
I would like to know what it means to have a balanced ego. An ego for
which it is not possible to smile without feeling sad. An ego for
which you cannot have friends without them also being your enemy. An
ego that tries to please in the hope that people will be displeased.
Identity so familiar that one knows it is there. Self so great it
hides and doesn't want to be seen. Center so wanting attention that it
rejects it. Yes there is tremendous seperation, but there is also
tremendous union.
I am not unaware of my failings. I might be materialistic but there is
tremendous balance here. And balance is the `I AM', the `true self'.
It is at 90 degrees to the extremes.
I cannot entirely put my finger on it, but it is possible for there to
be an `ideal' ego. An ego capable of being violent and powerful, yet
soft and gentle. An ego that can yield tremendous spiritual insight by
sheer virtue of the fact that it is aware of itself. Such intense self
awareness yields far more spiritual learning than a lesser ego that
may not be quite so aware of its own contradiction. Let us journey
into hell to find heaven.
I may be a complete fool but I am also wise. How can a person who is
adept at being an authority, abuse that authority when that person is
painfully aware that they are simultaneously unauthorised, powerless,
weak and tiny? What mysterious thing could arise out of such frozen
ego? I am cool, I am calm, I am cold even. This is not without its
benefits, and this is not withouts its nervousness and temporaryness.
Such can be the seperation in myself that I become a sheet of
continuity of thought. In such a state one cannot ignore being faced
with the two polarities. There comes from this tremendous integration
of the spiritual and the material. Yes I am selfish, but you wouldn't
believe the length I would go to to be generous, reluctantly so.
I *AM* writing this for my own benefit. But also I am writing it for
the hope that maybe it will benefit you. I also know that hope is a
deception, but that it can bring clarity. I am self sacrificing and
self-preserving. I want to ensure that my own interests are fully
catered for, and I will put my self aside in such loyalty to others
like you wouldn't believe. I can see everyone's point of view. All
angles. I cannot ignore the immense seperation that is within me, and
the tremendous wholeness that transcends it.
Sometimes I inflate to become big, and I also become small. Have you
any idea of the heaven and hell that can exist simultaneously? I am
very human, a humanist, but believe me I am also a superhuman. This
great paradox within me gives rise so much introspection and insight,
as you bear witness, but you wouldn't believe how confused I can be. I
can effortlessly perform feats of complexity, and you'd be surprised
how simple it is. I see all the opposites united. As one and as two.
Yin and Yang, through all the marriages and divorces.
Nobody knows of paradox like I do, and nobody knows of clarity like I
do. I have it all in this life. Heaven and hell and everything
inbetween. I act, I can be of any appearance, but somehow it is never
who I am. I'm such a crap actor but so good at it. Having both of
these inside myself can bring about a great tempering of any desire
to interfere. I witness, you see, and what I witness is me.
I try to remove one of the extremes sometimes. It makes me so unhappy.
I get the idea that I should be good or bad, and that I don't know
which I am. I cannot decide. I'm so decisive, you know. It is such a
wonderful resource for learning, being so completely corrupt. Out of
all this I have self on all levels simultaneously. I have been to
heaven and hell on seperate occasions. At those times hell is not very
nice and heaven is quite comforting. They're not much different
really.
There is acceleration, such speed of progress. Such rapid learning
with an ego like this. Yet, it seems to take forever for anything to
sink in. The sun is out when it is raining. The wind is still when it
blows. The moon shines when you cannot see it. Night is day and day is
night.There is no real difference, no real seperation, and you can
only see this when you are completely seperated. In an extreme of
seperation one becomes absent, for such is the singularity of the
illusion.
Horrendously now it is raining. Wind, sheets of water. The sky is all
one blanket of grey. There is still a sunny peace.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:05:03 EDT
From: MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com
To: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: the wonder of dark places
Message-ID: <a0eb7584.3582b140ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-06-13 12:38:35 EDT, you wrote to Holly:
<<
What goes up, must come down. What goes waaaay up, must come waaaaay down.
It is much like a pendulum swing - reminds me of that huge viking boat at the
county fairs that just goes from one side to the other, swinging to and fro,
higher and higher.
What I noticed, is that the pendulum starts beginning to swing less and less
after a while. The highs aren't so high. The lows aren't so low. Until
pretty soon there is just stillness.... ommmmmmmm.
At that point, it seems rather boring. LOL! (at least it was to me). We
have had a lifetime of these high's and lows - you know, the roller coaster
ride of life -- getting off of it is a wee bit different. >>
tg, VERY WELL SAID--& the very reason that people diagnosed with bipolar
"disorder" need to "get with the program"--& I DON'T mean lithium, tegretol,
Depakote & other medical treatment programs with potentially very dangerous
side effects. Thanks for sharing this very IMPORTANT information with the k-
list. Love, Michele
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:07:55 EDT
From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com
To: NancyATnospamwtp.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: the wonder of dark places
Message-ID: <9bd2847e.3582b1ecATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 6/13/98 12:13:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, NancyATnospamwtp.net
writes:
<<
When I try to share this with "normal" people, they just don't get it.
They immediately want to lump my experiences into something they can
grasp. I'm just "obsessive" or "emotional". Sometimes, I feel so lonely,
so misunderstood, so unaccepted. It's like I'm caught in-between two
worlds >>
I know the feeling. I wanted others to understand what I was going through...
but how could they? I didn't understand.
Once I began JUST accepting that this was where I was, and not trying to
explain myself away to others, and stopped looking for understanding, then
what I received was acceptance back.
Give others what you want to receive. If it is acceptance, accept them JUST
AS THEY ARE.... accept yourself just as you are. If you want understanding,
then give yourself understanding that 'you don't understand'. (a form of
acceptance).
I used to get in *dialogues* with others and found they were in such judgement
of my path. Now it just doesn't happen very often. I found that before I
was trying to get THEM to see the light! (and of course, they would want me
to see their view of the light...) I had judged them so in turn, they judged
me.
When I just started allowing people to be who they were, not pushing my
beliefs on them, they allowed me to be who I am.
Now when I speak to others, I can speak from my heart, with no ulterior
motives. Just speaking to give my opinion of where I am at right now, and
placing no value on their acceptance of what I am saying. If they don't like
it, fine. If they do, fine. I do my best to leave my mind open to what
others are saying, that I may not miss any opportunity for growth. Sometimes
what is said is valuable, sometimes not.
I think you are doing beautiful. I've seen you grow leaps and bounds while
here on this list. And everything can only get better...
Love,
xxxtg
* That was Zen. This is Tao *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:16:01 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Ego's truth
Message-ID: <00f601bd96ee$f0f7dac0$bcd11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul wrote:
>Nobody knows of paradox like I do, and nobody knows of clarity like I
do.
Shall we sing Paul's song? All together now: "Nobody knows the trouble I
see...."
You me go fly,
Sharon
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:24:32 -0700
From: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Thank You Avatar and List Members
Message-ID: <3582D1F0.A9DATnospamProdigy.com>
Hi everyone,
In this incarnation I've had much difficulty with astral projection. In
my last incarnation, it came more easily. My higher self taught me the
kundalini in my last life, and this led to the astral projection.
However, I used kundalini primarily to help me attune to my soul, by
settling my mind.
Some of the suggestions I've read on this list re astral projection have
helped me. Thank you. Thank you also for your words of welcome. Last
night, I felt like I was "logged on" the inner plane and in communication
with this list and particularly with the individual who signs on as
Avatar. Later, I found my consciousness floating toward my window and
out into my yard. I was overjoyed to realize I could "feel" the twigs on
the trees as I floated up through them, because I remembered the astral
sense of touch as somewhat inferior to physical senses. I was flying,
and then noticed God was there too, but in a most strange form (I won't
go into it). I "feel" that "God" in this case was a self-realized
individual. I received a strange but wonderful admonishment not to
overdo it from God, since I hadn't done this sort of thing for a while,
and to stay away from Dunkin Donuts when I'm flying (they're too heavy).
God, and my subconscious, always did have a sense of humor! I then
practiced joining and leaving my physical body for a few times. I feel
joining this list had something to do with my liberation. Thank you. I
also have recently come to understand that most of the forms one takes
during astral projection are just the mask referred to by Sri Yukteswar
in Autobiography of a Yogi. The astral body of anyone I have ever seen
in this earth incarnation (the one that floats out when you sleep) looks
like a sleeping cherub. Awakened (or self-conscious) astral flyers, or
those in-between incarnations, almost always wear forms. This was a
point of some confusion to me earlier, because I couldn't reconcile the
two astral bodies I had seen as myself. One is merely my favorite form,
which I always knew, but now I understand.
Hope I haven't gushed on too long. I just wanted to share my good time.
Cathy
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:33:08 EDT
From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Continuity
Message-ID: <8ccfe507.3582b7d5ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Paul,
There comes a time in ones life that we must take the orange and become the
apple.
xxxtg
* Seen on Pavlov's door: "Knock. Don't ring bell. *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~ on the web now!
In a message dated 6/13/98 12:57:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk writes:
<<
Jan, difficult to say. I have plenty of intuition. I have a tendency
to amplify thought if that is what you mean - to inflate thought, to
make of it images. I have very pictorial imagination. Actually to tell
the truth it isn't working that well today. Most of the time everyone
is my friend and everyone is my enemy, which is quite distressing. But
it does seem to bring about understanding, empathy, that sort of
thing, which I sometimes refer to as being mediumistic. It is on an
emotional level though, as emotion is basically thought with tonnes of
clout, and it is a reaction, and it is out of control because it is
trying to control. >>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:48:25 -0700
From: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
CC: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com
Subject: Dark Places and Cycles
Message-ID: <3582D789.2A93ATnospamProdigy.com>
ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/13/98 11:24:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com writes:
>
> << Can anybody explain to me why the
> darkness gets darker, sometimes? It this a balance to the bliss? >>
>
Hi,
This is Cathy speaking. Lately, I've been working on this one myself. I've also
read the new age stuff about cycles, and realizing you're in a cycle, you don't
want to move too far toward the light all at once, or you will increase the span
of your cycle, and have to return to the other end (much like the pendulum swing I
read in an earlier post). The trick is to gradually increase your mid-point in
the cycle. This way, the whole trip through the cycle, both the darkness and the
light are brighter.
Also, I try to respect the darkness because I feel it has a purpose, just like the
lower chakras. One day, however, it will be time for me and you to move beyond
it/them.
Ok. I understand that, but only because I also read Jesus' perspective on this,
when he said he felt "virtue go out of him" when someone surrepticiously touched
him to receive healing. I believe he recognized the need to recharge himself
spiritually periodically (probably daily), like a battery. It is important, then
to discharge the battery before getting another charge. In other words, spend the
goodness God gives you (that's the downward trip).
Hope this helps somewhat. I remember this when I'm on the down cycle.
Cathy
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:40:48 EDT
From: AfperryATnospamaol.com
To: tompatterson28ATnospamjuno.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Selfless service
Message-ID: <e4c0b7d.3582e3d1ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Tom,
I am in London UK. Isn't that one of the beauties of this medium, that
distance no longer means anything :-)
All forms of spiritual discipline aim to eradicate the little ego, the self-
important fellow we believe we are, in order to allow us to expand and merge
into the Universal, God, call it what you will. Selfless service i.e. acts
done without regard for the rewards and in a pure spirit of love for others,
and devotion i.e. striving to love others/humanity/God at all times in all
ways, are two of the principal means by which this ego can be overcome. Both
reduce the sense of our limited and separate individuality, breaking down the
barriers to our realization of the All. These two are the classic systems of
Karma and Bhakti Yoga, but they are as applicable to the West as they are to
the East.
There is no score sheet system that I am aware of! If you think about it, how
could there be? Acts done in order to gain merit, even spiritual merit, would
not be selfless, would they? Service starts at home; we don't need to think
big. But 'Random Acts of Kindness' and perhaps the deliberate effort to give
up some of our time on a regular basis in order to help others less fortunate
can bring about major change in us if done in the right frame of mind.
If you are interested in understanding more about this approach, I can once
again recommend Vivekananda's 'Four Yogas' or the teachings of Sai Baba who
places a very strong emphasis on the importance of selfless service. The
Bhagavad Gita covers all this ground too but then so does the Bible if
approached intelligently.
However, I agree wholeheartedly with you that reading is a very limited way to
grow spiritually: but it can act as a useful signpost for us - as long as we
then walk along the path it indicates for us! Spirituality can only ever be an
experiential thing, not an intellectual veneer.
God bless,
Alan
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:59:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dark Places and Cycles
Message-Id: <199806132059.PAA23236ATnospamdfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>
You wrote:
>
>Also, I try to respect the darkness because I feel it has a purpose,
just like the
>lower chakras. One day, however, it will be time for me and you to
move beyond
>it/them.
>
>Ok. I understand that, but only because I also read Jesus'
perspective on this,
>when he said he felt "virtue go out of him" when someone
surrepticiously touched
>him to receive healing. I believe he recognized the need to recharge
himself
>spiritually periodically (probably daily), like a battery. It is
important, then
>to discharge the battery before getting another charge. In other
words, spend the
>goodness God gives you (that's the downward trip).
Thank you to Freda, Nancy, tg, Michele and Cathy for writing such
valuable stuff. This particular point of Cathy's speaks to the sense I
have that dark/abyss(!) places have their own important energy -- if
nothing else, the Light shows up better there. Time spent there now
feels purposeful. I remember reading several years ago about how the
Tibetan monks, I think it was, use the energy of "negativity" in
meditation. My sense is that something like this happens
automatically, at least where kundalini makes the feeling palpable.
Thanks again, everybody. Holly
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:57:07 +0100
From: "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>, "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Continuity
Message-ID: <000501bd971e$96ebf0e0$416335c3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul wrote:
<snip>
> Most of the time everyone
> is my friend and everyone is my enemy, which is quite distressing.
<snip>
Jan:
You could ask: "Who finds it distressing?" The Self has neither friends nor
enemies. If there is any rule in meditation at all, it is this: "As you
meditate, so you become". Because of this, many meditate on great
historical figures like the Avatars Krishna, Rama or other ancient Masters.
By applying this rule, can you say whereto all your thinking is going to
lead you?
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:56:14 +0100
From: "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>, "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Who is there (was RE: Why would anyone...)
Message-ID: <000301bd971e$77a72e20$416335c3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul wrote:
> I am not sure, but I read someone referring to you as a `him'. I have
> been thinkig of you as a `her'. I am English and it is familiar to me
> that the name `Jan' is an abbreviation of `Janet' - definately a
> woman's name. I notice, now that it is mentioned, that you may have
> one of those foreign names, that is pronounced "yan"? Sorry for this
> confusion.
Jan:
What are you sorry for? Self has no gender. Only in a few countries on the
European continent it is known that my name appertains to a male. Indeed,
the pronunciation is like "yan" but the "a" is like the "a" in father and
short as the "i" in dim. As the gender-issue is quite predictable, I am
sorry if it brought you confusion. But I won't change my name for it or
place [M] after it, nor will I stick a male spiritual title to it. Self has
no labels too.
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:56:48 +0100
From: "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>,
"Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." <hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: the wonder of dark places
Message-ID: <000401bd971e$8b8675e0$416335c3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Holly wrote:
<snip>
> A recent descent of mine was darker, too, than it had been in years
> although the certainty of divine process puts these moments in a
> different context. But the pull and depth of the darkness surprised
> me. Anybody else noticing this? Can anybody explain to me why the
> darkness gets darker, sometimes? It this a balance to the bliss? I
> have a very strong feeling of trying to hatch out of some structure I
> can't see. Notes from the "already there" would be much appreciated!
The process is best described by the Rosicrucians. Without K., life is ruled
by ego and it is referred to as "old me". With K., a so called "new me" is
being created. The rising of K. is seen as the dying of the "old me", that
has to make room for the "new me". The dying is not meant as a figure of
speech. It is most real. At times, one can feel deserted and without friends
and one isn't understood by anyone. Because the process isn't linear, there
are ups and downs, but when the process reaches its end (crown chakra) it
can become extreme. It is the so called crucification of Christ; this is not
a historic event but the story of a very memorable K. event. There are
moments of great difficulties with "normal" people, not because of
understanding alone but because the "mode of thinking" becomes very
different. One Rosicrucian author even calls non-K. people the "living dead"
and it is not meant as scolding but how one will actually experience. It is
advised never to speak about K., unless with companions in distress, as one
risks being judged as (partly) insane and one looses a lot of energy in
useless arguments. The "crucification of Christ" leads to a state from where
reincarnation is no longer possible. Therefore it is called rebirth, new
heaven and earth etc. The new state isn't the end of the unfolding of K.,
but one's well-being is no longer governed by external events. Also, the
experience of time passing by comes forever to a standstill.
Jan
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:51:34 -0700
From: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>
To: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." <hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dark Places and Cycles
Message-ID: <35832CA6.7156ATnospamProdigy.com>
Holly,
Your perspective is also helpful. Thank you. Perhaps, realizing and
admitting (via meditation) that one is in darkness helps precipitate a
return to the light. This could be one way to "use the negativity".
Since, to continue with the battery metaphor, opposites attract, the
positive light would begin to fill the darkness, or fresh inspiration
begins to fill the void. Meditating on the negativity would possibly
create a slingshot effect hastening one's return toward the positive, by
finishing the negative cycle.
If I recall, Kahil Gibran's writings refer to one's cup being carved out
with sorrow before it can be filled with joy. It seems that everyone,
eventually begins to realize this experience in the course of their
enlightenment.
Cathy
Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> You wrote:
> >
>
> >Also, I try to respect the darkness because I feel it has a purpose,
> just like the
> >lower chakras. One day, however, it will be time for me and you to
> move beyond
> >it/them.
> >
> >Ok. I understand that, but only because I also read Jesus'
> perspective on this,
> >when he said he felt "virtue go out of him" when someone
> surrepticiously touched
> >him to receive healing. I believe he recognized the need to recharge
> himself
> >spiritually periodically (probably daily), like a battery. It is
> important, then
> >to discharge the battery before getting another charge. In other
> words, spend the
> >goodness God gives you (that's the downward trip).
>
> Thank you to Freda, Nancy, tg, Michele and Cathy for writing such
> valuable stuff. This particular point of Cathy's speaks to the sense I
> have that dark/abyss(!) places have their own important energy -- if
> nothing else, the Light shows up better there. Time spent there now
> feels purposeful. I remember reading several years ago about how the
> Tibetan monks, I think it was, use the energy of "negativity" in
> meditation. My sense is that something like this happens
> automatically, at least where kundalini makes the feeling palpable.
> Thanks again, everybody. Holly
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