1998/05/20 09:31
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #385
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 385
Today's Topics:
Re: Subconscious pressure and return [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Subconscious pressure and return [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Fwd: Subconscious pressure and retur [ Uni8077 <Uni8077ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be s [ GSDonne <gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au> ]
The Story of a Smile [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Fwd: new list subscriber [ Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iis ]
Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be s [ Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Fwd: new list subscriber [ Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iis ]
Re: an introduction and some questio [ Jeanne Garner <jeannegATnospamicon.net> ]
Re: an introduction and some questio [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: Subconscious pressure and return [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: Bliss [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: Bliss [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: Bliss [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: suffering [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:10:52 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Subconscious pressure and returning smiles
Message-ID: <868b9324.3562d65dATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/19/1998, 9:15:14 PM, paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk writes:
<<One of the worst aspects of this subconscious pressure, which might be
surprising to you, is how it makes me feel obliged to smile. That's no
fun at all.
Harsha: I see what you are saying. Carrying a constant smile can be a
hassle:--)
Paul: It's the suggestion that a person who is offending you has
to be treated as though they are not offending you.
Harsha: Why do you do this?
Paul: I do this because I am quite a nice person and I am sensitive, and as
such I treat most other people with respect and value.
Harsha: Very good!
Paul: But it's just that they don't seem to be returning the favour, and it
can really hurt.
Harsha: I am sorry for your hurt but what would you have them do? Constantly
return your smile? That can be a heavy burden unless the smile comes by
itself.
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:29:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
cc: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Subconscious pressure and returning smiles
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980520081739.21175A-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 20 May 1998, Harsha1MTM wrote:
>
> Paul: But it's just that they don't seem to be returning the favour, and it
> can really hurt.
>
> Harsha: I am sorry for your hurt but what would you have them do? Constantly
> return your smile? That can be a heavy burden unless the smile comes by
> itself.
one thing i like about buddhist practise is you practise giving without
expectation of anything in return. *hard* but with practise right,
everything becomes easier?
i find sometimes i live by 'fake it until you make it'. good thing
visualizations help with that :).
But the cool part is, no matter what you give, it sows seeds of good
things. it will come back at you. Lots of miles of smiles headed your way
so to speak :). Wicca says it comes back 3-fold. i never heard from
Buddhism anything like that, so i tend to hang on to that remnant of the
Pagan in me. :)
there was one day i was in a funk and there was this person in the grocery
store who smiled at me despite the fact i was frowny and on the road to
being mad at the world. surprise! i smiled back, felt better, and thanked
the lovely Dakini who smiled at me :). (if Dakini is a strange word, think
angel, its close enough)
on another note, i'm missing my guru, its strange how little we appreciate
the teacher when they are with us, when they are gone we wonder how in the
world our questions will get answered. Good thing dakinis float around
everyday everywhere right????
My friend Ani Lama Lhadon has a way cool website,
http://www.earthlink.net/~lhadon
which includes a teaching of hers on Dakinis and other things. :)
We met on IRC, and i have this script i fire every now & then that runs
like 'Khandro showers <whoever> with jeweled lotus blossoms until all you
see is a big sparkling pile of flowers'. Well, i didnt think anything of
that little IRC script of mine until i saw her website and she did it on a
flower-shower theme :) my mouth hung open & all i could do was say "Way
Cool!"
so they come back at you, even irc scripts.
maitri,
--the wierdo from the midwest throwing flowers down from right above you
:)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:40:01 EDT
From: Uni8077 <Uni8077ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Fwd: Subconscious pressure and returning smiles
Message-ID: <3c28c846.3562dd32ATnospamaol.com>
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="part0_895671601_boundary"
From: Uni8077 <Uni8077ATnospamaol.com>
Return-path: <Uni8077ATnospamaol.com>
To: dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Subject: Re: Subconscious pressure and returning smiles
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:38:35 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
In a message dated 98-05-20 09:29:34 EDT, you write:
<< Paul: But it's just that they don't seem to be returning the favour, and
it
> can really hurt.
>
> Harsha: I am sorry for your hurt but what would you have them do?
Constantly
> return your smile? That can be a heavy burden unless the smile comes by
> itself. >>
I rarely post, preferring to just read and learn. But it seems to me that if
someone cannot return a smile, they may be very "soul-sick". Perhaps they are
in so much pain that they just are unable to do this. As a Wiccan, I would
try to project to them healing energy (to be used according to their free
will, and according to their needs). And as I did that, the benefit would
come back to me 3-fold.
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:19:02 +0800
From: GSDonne <gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be sorry!)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980709141902.0068de44ATnospammail.iinet.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:14 AM 5/19/98 +0530, you wrote:
>
>
>>>Biharilal:
>>>When you are doubtless about unknown or say when you have no questions
>>about unknown to be solved,you are in one way enlightened.
>>>
>"You are in one way enlightened"
>
>In the state of enlightenment if the "you" remains, then is it enlightenment
>or delusion?
>I wonder
>Sandeep
Who really cares?? Centuries ago theologians worried and wasted hours of
time on
determining how many angels would fit on the head of a pin. I find
discussions on
'enlightment' to be similar. Maybe future generations will regard it the
same way.
Sandeep, why is it sooo important for the 'you' to disappear.???
There are many different levels of enlightment. Each one building on the next.
Previous stages/steps may later be seen to be 'an illusion', but are no less
'real' at the time of the experience.
We learn and grow from our experience of illusions/delusions all the
time thru books and film, etc. You will be waiting a long time for the
ultimate 'Reality' to then accept that as the ultimate learning experience.
All this prior talk about 'disolving into the One', makes me feel like
a jelly crystal.
Personally myself I quite like my Creator given individuality, my own unique
spark of life. I dont intend to apologise for it, or try to anniliate it in
some cosmic soup
bowl.
Quote from Patanjali, via Harsha:
>> Harsha: Beautiful notes from XXXTG and Jerry Katz. May I add one of my
favorite quotes from Patanjali (Sutra 1.3) from Samadhi-Pada. "Then (upon the
dissolution of vrttis) The Seer rests in His (Her) Own True Nature."
This is far, far more accurate. We experience 'the One' as our
Higher nature, our true selves. We do not 'lose' our own nature in the soup
bowl, but regain it.
Rather than putting down our individuality, we should be rejoicing in it,
encouraging its growth for it is a reflection of our own Higher Nature.
It is as Patanjali points out, when we experience the One, it is as our Own
True Nature.
There is no duality, only the One, as yourself.
What happens when several or more pple experience Unity as
theirselves?? Thats when its gets interesting.:)
back to lurking.
GSDonne
Feel free to steal any of the quotes below. I did.
"Those who restrain desire, do so because
theirs is weak enough to be restrained."
"Desire and longing are the whips of God."
"Dream deep for every dream precedes the
goal."
"For an instant, love can transform the world."
The Oneness you seek
cannot be located but
endless others exist
---- Joy Rothke from Haiku
Error Message competition at Salon, (slightly edited for K fans)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:35:09 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: dorf01ATnospammail.win.org, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Cc: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: The Story of a Smile
Message-ID: <d638d774.3562f82fATnospamaol.com>
Harsha: A spiritual smile can be a powerful gift and a healing force. I am
reminded of an incident about 21 years ago in NYC. I was tired and weary and
my whole body was aching. That day none of the yoga teachers had shown up
where I worked. I had ended up teaching everyone else's classes including my
own. In those days, I used to demonstrate every single posture myself and then
hold it along with the class. I had not had much time for eating or drinking
through the day and was quite dehydrated. I entered the subway to go home and
it was full and so I had to stand. I just stood holding on to one of the bars
with my body slumping and my head down. In a few minutes I became aware of a
presence. I looked around. There was a young black girl around 7-8 years old
staring right at me. She was sitting with someone who was perhaps her
grandmother. The older women had her eyes closed and seemed to be praying. The
little girl simply kept staring at me. I thought I must look as awful as I
feel and evidently was being pitied. So I stood a bit straighter and took a
deep breath. I wanted to let the young girl know that I was fine and not to
worry. She still kept staring right at me. Then I returned her look and looked
her in the eyes. For a few seconds her eyes gripped me and then there was this
hint of the most compassionate and loving smile I had ever seen appear on
anyone's face. I spontaneously smiled back. A rush of energy went through my
body. I felt tired no more and was completely alert. It was as if the Goddess
herself had appeared in the subway and smiled at me in the most comforting
way.
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:24:04 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: ROGER POAHA <HOKULIMAATnospamwebtv.net>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: new list subscriber
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980520212225.3372B-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mystress it is possible to deliver a baby without any pain and discomfort
Love,
anurag
On Tue, 19 May 1998, ROGER POAHA wrote:
> Would appreciate anyone out there reading this to please reply to this
> message if you feel you can shed light on this matter. Mahalo Nui Loa!
> Also, does anyone of you know how I can get in touch with El
> Collie, via email? Would appreciate it very much, also! Mahalo!
>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:07:51 EDT
From: Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>
To: gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be sorry!)
Message-ID: <da576714.3562ffd8ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 20/5/98 3:24:54 pm, you wrote:
> Who really cares?? Centuries ago theologians worried and wasted hours of
>time on determining how many angels would fit on the head of a pin. I find
>discussions on 'enlightment' to be similar.
Agreed........
"Enlightenment is not a bright light that shines and
blinds everybody. That's called blinding everybody.
Enlightenment is the process by which you relate to
people in your conversation, in your daily
occupation. And one of the foremost things to look
for in enlightenment is forgiveness.
When you go into a situation with someone, you
should have an anchor into the Spirit of who you are
so you can come back out of it. And the way in is
the way out. So if you think step by step into
judgment, you must think step by step back out into
forgiveness. In the judgment is the
"endarkenment," and in the forgiveness is the
enlightenment."
- John-Roger
(From: Forgiveness, The Key to the Kingdom)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:28:56 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: ROGER POAHA <HOKULIMAATnospamwebtv.net>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: new list subscriber
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980520212528.3372C-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Roger,
I have and am undergoing most of the symptoms you have
mentioned. I just bear them. I am currently feeling pain and
some sort of ringing in ears when I meditate for awakening
kundalini.
Love,
anurag
==============
= Name : Anurag Goel =
= Course : M.Sc. Engg. ,Electrical Engg =
= Room No : PD-16 =
= e-mail : anuragATnospamee.iisc.ernet.in =
==============
= HOME PAGE LOCATION =
= http://144.16.69.6/people/students/anurag =
= =
= kabira yeh ghar prem ka khala ka ghar nahi =
= shish utare bhoomi dhare vah pathe ghar mahi =
= =
==============
On Tue, 19 May 1998, ROGER POAHA wrote:
> Would appreciate anyone out there reading this to please reply to this
> message if you feel you can shed light on this matter. Mahalo Nui Loa!
> Also, does anyone of you know how I can get in touch with El
> Collie, via email? Would appreciate it very much, also! Mahalo!
>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:23:04
From: Jeanne Garner <jeannegATnospamicon.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, morganaATnospambest.com
Subject: Re: an introduction and some questions
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980520112304.3e671818ATnospamicon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:13 PM 5/18/98 -0700, Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> "The Fog" is a thread that has not come up in quite a while.. but many
>folks including myself have noticed sometimes that a room may look like a
>thin blue fog has descended into it.. I tended to notice it indoors... I
>probably thought it was real fog when I was outdoors.. LOL! I did associate
>it with spiritual presences.. but it tended to be a room, rather than an
>area.
...and I thought it was just me... There are times when, wherever I am,
outside, in a room, wherever, everything lights up with this golden "fog"
which is a good description of it. Always with a very good feeling. So
glad you wrote about this.
Jeanne
==-* My stars!
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:23:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Jeanne Garner <jeannegATnospamicon.net>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, morganaATnospambest.com
Subject: Re: an introduction and some questions
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980520112302.326B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 20 May 1998, Jeanne Garner wrote:
>
> ...and I thought it was just me... There are times when, wherever I am,
> outside, in a room, wherever, everything lights up with this golden "fog"
> which is a good description of it. Always with a very good feeling. So
> glad you wrote about this.
check in another fog child! me 3 mine is usually silver/white
-dao
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:16:23 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Subconscious pressure and returning smiles
Message-Id: <l03010d01b188b1b7ab6bATnospam[207.71.51.88]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Debora!
>--the wierdo from the midwest throwing flowers down from right above you
>:)
I love it!! :))))))))) Thank you!!
(Where in the midwest? I grew up in Indiana.)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:04:35 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bliss
Message-ID: <017301bd840b$f098e2e0$30175ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Antoine <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>; Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>
Cc: Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Bliss
I want to clarify two terms to prevent confusion: "pain" and "suffering."
When I say, "pain," I'm referring to a sensation which may or may not be
unpleasant. Pain is your body's way of telling you it doesn't like
something. Emotional pain works the same way with other parts of your
being. When I say, "suffering," I mean that which people usually associate
with pain. I mean "unpleasant-ness". There can be "pain" without
suffering, but things which cause suffering are almost always called "pain."
I seek to eliminate suffering from my life. I suspect that it's possible
somehow.
Hope that cleared some stuff up.
[[[ Beginning of replies ]]]
I said:
>When I've thought about what I do when faced with a source of emotional
>suffering: I think about the actual situation, try to determine what it is
>that I fear losing, and see what I *really* lose. Because I'm a bit of a
>determinist, the goal is always to convince myself that I've lost nothing.
>(There was no way to really avoid that "loss": it was a determined event!
>No sense in clinging to the impossible, right?)
Antoine said:
>That's what i like about emotional pain. It will come back if I convinced
>myself that I've lost nothing in a non "integral" way. Like a monk in is
>isolation from the world to learn to control is sexual desire and who feels
>some kind of "pain" from seing a pretty woman pass in the streat. For me,
he
>convinced himself in a non integral way that he only loved the Absolute.
I see. And when Brent says, "It's ok not to get your homework in on time.
You weren't destined to get your homework in on time. And what does
homework matter anyway? Every time that you were happy so far took place
when you didn't have *this* homework completed."
But I've just "convinced" myself that the loss didn't actually exist. So,
what I "overcame" wasn't actually a loss... And the real learning comes
from an actual loss...
[[[ Next ]]]
Antoine said:
>Overcoming real day to day "emotional" pain brings what i like to call
>deepness of being in this world.
I thought I had figured out how to deal with physical suffering by
"desensitization" and with emotional suffering by "contemplation." You
suggest that there is another way. Please do share.
[[[ Next ]]]
Antoine said:
>Magic is in life, and there is more magic in the simple act of breathing
>than any superman stuff. Like Terton Sogyal said " I'm not impress if
>someone can tranform the flor into sky or water in fire. The true miracle
>appends when someone is able to free, woud it be only once, a negative
>emotion."
"You want magical powers?!! Chop wood! Carry water!"
Yep. How can the ability to breathe fire prevent you from suffering when a
friend dies? How can someone who is absolutely happy where the are benefit
from the ability to levitate?
[[[ Next ]]]
I said:
>Sometimes, I'll have a headache or some pain that I'm not able to "accept",
>or maybe I'll have a bad day. No matter what I've tried to do, I'll
suffer.
>I'll focus on the sensation or on the causes of my emotions, but I won't be
>able to stop the suffering.
Sai Baba said:
>"When you said "Yes" to Me you gave Me your body, your thoughts, your
>actions. When they don't suit the new you, the uncomfortableness is
>unbearable. It will be so EVERY time and until you realise this fully, then
>and only then will you completely give up desire. For this is the only way
>man will learn. Very seldom does he learn by quiet reminders. Man's desires
>and pitfalls are placed there so that I may do My work."
Antoine said:
>"Very seldom does he learn by quiet reminders"... Boy is there wisdom in
>that one for me.
And people must go through the ups and downs of life, experiencing pleasure
and suffering again and again until they believe in an integral way that
experiencing the downs will always hurt?
[[[ Next ]]]
I said:
>I guess I'll have to keep experimenting and see what I discover.
Antoine said:
>There is so much to discorver, my friends.
There is more activity in a drop of water than any human I know is capable
of keeping track of. The number of drops of water in a lake is
mind-boggling. The number of lakes in the world is mind-boggling. The
number of Earths that could fit inside the Sun is mind-boggling. The
number of stars that exist in our galaxy alone is mind-boggling. The
number of galaxies that exist are mind-boggling. And that's just the
physical plane. When I think about how truly colossal the universe is, my
jaw drops. And even then, I'm not even close to actually perceiving how big
the universe is. And that's just size, let alone "things that you can
learn."
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:18:52 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Sandeep Chatterjee" <sandeepcATnospambom3.vsnl.net.in>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bliss
Message-ID: <017401bd840b$f2874560$30175ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepcATnospambom3.vsnl.net.in>
To: Antoine <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Bliss
I said:
>When I've thought about what I do when faced with a source of emotional
>suffering: I think about the actual situation, try to determine what it is
>that I fear losing, and see what I *really* lose. Because I'm a bit of a
>determinist, the goal is always to convince myself that I've lost nothing.
Sandeep said:
>Out of convincing only resentment is born. You have convinced yourself, you
>hae swept the "loss" under the carpet.But that loss will haunt you.
>
>When you seen the early morning sunrise, do you need to convince yourself
>that you have seen the sun rise?
Good point. Convincing changes perception, not realty.
[[[ Next ]]]
Sandeep said:
>"See" that you came with nothing and will go with nothing.
>Yes what you came with, time cannot take it away. Find that and you are
>ahead of the game.
Would the one and only one thing that you've always had be "is-ness"?
[[[ Next ]]]
I said:
>I'll wonder what is unpleasant about that sensation and I'll have no idea
>why it is. But it will still suck. Experiences like that suggest to me
two
>possibilities: 1) I still have some attachments I haven't discovered and
>worked through yet; or 2) that "removing attachments" is just
>desensitization, and that there is no real escape from suffering, only the
>ability to prevent suffering-causing situations from becoming.
Sandeep said:
>Any event which has come into existence through you, if it is "unpleasant"
>to you, then it means there is an unacceptance in you of What IS.
>Look into what is unacceptable about it for you and teh game that you play
>and you have "seen" one more step in your acsension ladder.
I'll try that.
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:52:30 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Mystress Angelique Serpent" <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bliss
Message-ID: <017501bd840b$f3d6f6e0$30175ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Cc: Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>; Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Bliss
I said:
>I think I've removed aversion to minor burns. [...] If I
>relaxed and let go of the thought that says "that's pain and pain is bad",
I
>found that the pain wasn't didn't cause any suffering and that the
sensation
>was pleasurable simply because it was so intense.
>
>Can it be that I've found The Way Out? I'm not so sure, as I explain
below.
MAS said:
> Yes, you have. Well done.
> [...]
> Pain in itself is only sensation and it is our attitudes of resistance to
>it, and fear, that make it uncomfortable. These attitudes are conditioning
>and can be released, or simply traded for more fulfilling attitudes.
>Acceptance and gratitude. Offer love, instead.
> Next time you are conducting this experiment, try holding the idea of
>thanking Goddess for giving you feet that can feel pleasure and hot
>pavement for them to feel.. thank the feet and the pavement and the sun,
>too.. count your blessings.. and trip into a whole new level of bliss..
>Goddess provides.
I'm not so sure, actually. I think that I've discovered techniques for
converting physical pain into neutral sensatoins or even pleasurable ones,
but still haven't succeeded in my goal of ending suffering. See below.
> There are still some kinds of pain that I try to avoid.. physical and
>emotional sensations that I have not yet learned to accept with gratitude..
>tough to love a migraine...
That's kind of what I'm talking about. As a matter of fact, a headache was
one of the things that convinced me that I hadn't found The Way Out. I
tried paying close attention to the sensation, I tried to give it
acceptance, but it still hurt. Not just pain, but suffering that I wasn't
able to rid myself of. And I don't think that there was a loss I feared
associated with the pain, unlike certain emotional forms of suffering. It
was unpleasant, no matter what I did.
I think there's something more to it.
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:27:53 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "WEIVODA" <WEIVODAATnospamaol.com>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: suffering
Message-ID: <01ab01bd840c$5b20eb80$30175ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: WEIVODA <WEIVODAATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:37 PM
Subject: suffering
Hi.
>The only suffering we have is suffering we cause. We could bring suffering
>upon us, or we could bring joy upon us. It is all a state of mind, we bring
>upon us what we want, and sometimes that maybe suffering.
Originally, I thought that I, consciously or subconsciously, was the cause
of all my suffering. I thought that attachment to things was the cause in
one way or another. But lately, I'm reconsidering that.
I think that there may be something more to it than that. Why would a
person inflict suffering on themselves? By definition, suffering isn't
something that they would want.
Just some food for thought.
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