1998/04/14 13:20
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #294
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 294
Today's Topics:
Esoteric Meanings of the Five Elemen [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
everyday life [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Snakey stuff [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: HTML posts and the K-list websit [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpent ]
Re: K-list website. [ melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu ]
Re: K-list website. [ "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsru ]
Special Web Hosting Offer [ "Cyber Media" <salesATnospamcybermedia-inc ]
Introduction to a new listmember [ J B Bell <cipherATnospameschatek.com> ]
childhood kundalini (was RE: kundali [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:14:03 -0700
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Esoteric Meanings of the Five Elements used In Tantra
Message-ID: <3532FEAB.2FCB8E31ATnospamgeocities.com>
Hi List !
I am sure many on the list have knowledge of the Tantras, as they have
depicted in the West.
I would like share with you all the esoteric meanings of the Five
Elements used in the Tantras.
1. Madya: Alcohol
The real alcohol, not in the form as we know it , is depicted as the
"Soma Dhara" or the elixir of joy, in the Maha Nirvana Tantra.
The aspirant who is capable of making the elixir of joy flow from the
Crown Chakra and permeate each and every cell of the body truly fulfills
, this aspect of Tantra Practice.
2. Eating Meat: or "Mangsha" in Hindi it is called as "Maash"
The sound Ma is another form of speech, in Sanskrit, apart from its
usual meaning as Mother.
The aspirant who remains silent inwardly and outwardly during the
practice, is the one who has eaten the Meat.
3. Matsya or Fish: The aspirant who has stopped the flow of the in-going
breath and the outgoing breath in the two channels of the Ida and
Pingala, through Pranayama and Kumbhaka (breath retention) has fulfilled
the condition of having eaten the two fishes.
4. Mudra: There is a spot in the center of the underside of the brain,
where the Consciousness operates from, which is white as globule of
mercury It has the power of luminosity of a 10 million Suns, and yet it
is as cool as 10 million Moons.
This consciousness when it manifests , it is of exquisite beauty and is
the driving force of the Kundalini.
The aspirant who can experience the consciousness as such, has truly
fulfilled the conditions Mudra.
5. Maithuna : Although this aspect has been generally spoken of by most
adherents of Tantra as the copulation of a male with a female, yet Maha
Nirvana Tantra speaks of it as
a similar activity, within an individual, whether male or female.
The male organ is the current of the air with the breath, which works
upon the female organ , which is the space, and penetrates it, during
Kumbhaka Pranayama.
So in real terms ,when through the Kumbhaka Pranayama the breath
penetrates the space at the base chakra and continues it penetration
till it touches the crown Chakra, is the copulation activity to be
fulfilled by the aspirant.
On following these five ways to activate the Kundalini in stages is the
inherent meaning of all Tantras.
Ultimately it boils down to , be joyful, maintain inner and outer
silence, through will and determination, stop the flow of prana in the
channels other than the Sushumna, become aware of the spiritual center,
through focussing , and finally through the Kumbhaka Pranayama, bring up
the prana and penetrate the space between the Base and the Crown
Chakras.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:57:42 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>, "Pat Williams" <pwilliamATnospaminfocom.com>
Subject: everyday life
Message-Id: <199804140935.KAA30465ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> >>What then are you looking for 'K', 'Bliss', 'Wisdom' or 'Truth'? They are
> not all the same thing. And nobody is going to do the hard work of finding
> 'the Truth' for you.
>
> The hard work does not come in finding the truth, but making it a part of
> your everyday life, once it is found.
Yes I agree. This truth also evolves. Looking back we see the limitations of what we knew with certainty. So these are all subjective truths - not the Absolute. Finding the Absolute Truth is not something people are interested in. So let us stick with the subjective truths . . .Evolution of the ego or the person or the mind, however you wish to term it, is empowered by balance. Moving between extremes makes us aware of the importance of stability. Many people mention how K moves them all over the place. Others how it provides Peace and Calm.
Perhaps you might welcome CALM
for it is here
and welcome PEACE
for it is here.
Welcome them.
BE WELL
Lobster
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:16:07 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Kundalini list" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Snakey stuff
Message-Id: <199804140935.KAA30048ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> << Moments of bliss and ecstasy are experienced through sex, drugs, hormonal
> changes and quite spontaneously. So feeling blissed out is no indication of
> anything. Nice though :-) >>
>
> Dear Lobster,
>
> I wonder if we should discount bliss so easily. In my experience bliss is not
> simply a pleasant physical experience. With it, often, comes feelings of
> transcendence. Often a strong "presence" will make itself felt. It is an
> experience that is impossible to accurately describe. Certainly bliss,
> whether or not experienced "unnaturally" with drugs, might be considered a
> signpost of some sort.
Depends on what you want. If you require snakey power and bliss and stuff all well and good. I would suggest that God or Truth (assuming some are more interested in Reality rather than the subjective) is not a state or experience that one can have. There is no condition of duality - experience plus experiencer. Therefore any experience of bliss is transitory and however sublime belongs to the realm of illusion.
I appreciate the strength of the experience you are trying to convey but dismiss its importance.
> I don't know what this Presence is, but I suspect most, if not all on the list
> have had some experience with it. How do you all account for it??
Snakey stuff. Hormonal changes, mental imbalance, food allergy, trance induction, emotional intensity, spirit or angelic possession, environmental sensitivity.
God? Truth? No. God does not have subjective qualities such as bliss or ecstasy. Mystics quite often experience ecstatic states. What I would suggest is that they must transcend them - they are just a stage. Oh yes and all is God of course - but not in this context.
> "On waking this morning, there was that strange immobility of the body and of
> the brain; with it came a movement of entering into unfathomable depths of
> intensity and of great bliss and there was that otherness."
> Krishnamurti's Notebook
Krishnamurti was trained by weirdos from the theosophical society. He made quite a good living by saying 'look within do not follow me'. He of course had many followers. Ridiculous. A person with real wisdom finds it easy to not become a guru - which is what Krishnamurti effectvely was.
Would you say that feelings of intense despair and separation (also experienced by mystics) are signposts of greater or lesser significance? I suggest they are equally irrelevant.
Blissfully
Lobster
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:28:00 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: HTML posts and the K-list website.
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980414022800.00b8aa10ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree with you Freda: Kurt says 'it's been done', but I don't think
so.. what has been done can give us a fat links page, but I would like to
see the website as a work of art, representative of the creative
expressions, diversity and wisdom of the members.
I am most gratified at the offers I have had already.. yours and Liz
<melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu> to do html and Jeanne G.'s offer of website space
enough, to easily house the archives.
So we have some space to get creative with, now.. Still looking for a cgi
scripter.. :)
Blessings, Mystress.
At 11:00 AM 10/04/98 -0700, freda wrote:
>Dear Fellow Klisters,
>I am dreadfully sorry this is sooooo long, but ya should have seen it
>before it was edited!
>in short form:
>I like the klist as it is. But I'd like to see a central website,
>(and I'm willing to help, I don't have alot of flashy intellegent things
>to add but I have lots of free time)
>
>in longer form:
>I've been here a year and my address hasn't been given/sold.
>The spam I've seen came thru the list - from the lists' own subscribers,
>and promptly! they were scolded.
>Although the email side of the list works for me,I am confused about its
>website? Is there a "site" or is there info spread about on different
>sites by its members?
>I know Kurt, ori, Frans and ? someone else, have links and some gathered
>information,
>but is it a priority for anyone in particular?
>For something as rapid- fire as K can be I'd have thought there would be
>a whole lot more in the way of tidbits of wisdom from THIS group
>available, there is alot of good stuff that is passed along on the list,
>but the only way to know it is to hang out on the email. if ya snooze-ya
>loose!
>We have such a diversity of people, and symptoms, and perspectives but
>so few "helpful" articles.
>I have been to some of the other sites which deal with K but most end up
>being a commercial endeaver for some-body or some organization....
>I like the Kundalini-l because, for the most part, we are a community of
>people sharing, I don't have to wonder if I'm being sold-the-goods. When
>I come to the Klist it is safe..........and real...even if it does get
>off topic,
>a central website, updated as necessary would be wonderful.
>It would also give those poor newbies a place to "get sent" when they
>ask the inevitable question:
>"could somebody tell me what K is? and how do I know if I got it!" we
>have a few articles gathered but it is narrow...
>400 of us! wow, whats that, uh, 400 versions of K.?
>and those 400 are evolving and changing.....and the K-l list site would
>BE different than the others, it has all of US, the others don't. We are
>unique, (as are they?-until they start ta sell ya their stuff! then they
>are all the same........................:0 .....)
>--of course making this reading material available- off the email-
>mainline, will just leave more time for this idle chatter, which, if I
>got the message correct (after a year here) IS okay, after all
>"everything Is, there Is no difference, there is no reality anyway" and
>somehow the chit-chat Becomes ON topic as it is people living with K
>talking about daily stuff that is after all inseperable - isn't it?
>(don't take my word for it however, what do I know? "they" tell me I
>have MPD's - it seperates okay for me... :)
>so, I wonder.....
>what IS off-topic,
>Is there life without K? Is there K without life, and is any of it ON
>topic? We can't agree what IT is, who among us is gonna monitor what is
>relivent for someone else?
>For instance: there is lots of talk here about meditation, but all of us
>don't don't meditate, (I don't, its not relevent to me, at this moment
>anyway, it may be this afternoon however, the more I learn about it the
>more relevent it becomes,) I like the way the list pretty much cares
>for its own, like a big family, if peer presure don't solve a problem
>Mystress will. a lot of tollerence is given... but this is K !!!!!!
>ex-communication is such an ugly thing,
>and I like that it doesn't happen often here....there doesn't seem to be
>a need for it (my opionion)
>
>
>I know I'm spoiled, I don't pay extra for email, no matter how much
>comes in, and I have 10m thingies of ftp at my disposal, (what could I
>ever do with that much?) for a mere $28 per month I have unlimited time
>on the internet - its typical here - so I WANT to surf on over to a
>really neat website! and check out what all you wonderful people have to
>share, see whats new, I want a handy little place, OF our community,
>that ain't gonna sell me on some "program" real people, living real
>lives, who are "hopefully" too buzy to with the excitement of their own
>enlightenment to bother trying to sell me... *their*
>spiritualiy.....just give me the details and I'll work out my own
>"program", thank you. And here at the Klist there are a lot of
>perspectives-which I'd like to see a little more about! someone is
>always asking for more info about something, lets get it in a convient
>place. ooooohhhhh thats a task. but it would be such a help....
>
>I like my k-list. I like the people and the management!
>the volume and the off- topic is no biggie (to me), but I would really
>be excited to have a nifty website to go with it, for ourselves and for
>others, who are probably looking for us right now.
>Spirit Willing....
>freda
>I, I, I, this post is full of I's.
>thats my ego...its okay, God knows I have it - just another gift, that
>requires much disipline! and pampering.
>
>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:36:40 -0400
From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: K-list website.
Message-Id: <l03130301b15912167f26ATnospam[198.28.38.107]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> I agree with you Freda: Kurt says 'it's been done', but I don't think
>so.. what has been done can give us a fat links page, but I would like to
>see the website as a work of art, representative of the creative
>expressions, diversity and wisdom of the members.
> I am most gratified at the offers I have had already.. yours and Liz
><melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu> to do html and Jeanne G.'s offer of website space
>enough, to easily house the archives.
> So we have some space to get creative with, now.. Still looking for a cgi
>scripter.. :)
> Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress--
I think Mark knows Perl or something he can write cgi's in and I think I
saw an offer of help from him--how 'bout it Mark?
Here are some of the things I'd like to see at the new site:
indigenous art
k-related poetry from members (those who have written on-list do shine!)
and other writing from members including k-essays and k-fiction (!?)
k-art from members
more awakening stories -- even if archived under assumed names (some need
privacy)
I'm not really advocating a k-magazine, but more of a constantly eveloving
... oops!
... how funny, that was supposed to be evolving ... um, developing space
that is unique because it is *ours*!
One thing I would *not* do is archive the list on a web site. I unsubbed
from one list because you could put my name into Alta Vista and see every
personal thing I had written to my friends there -- not good! I do believe
in privacy and knowing our words stay within this group (unless we
volunteer to have them posted to the group site) encourages sharing within
the group.
Jonesing hard for a group site ... ;)
--Liz
The web site you seek
cannot be located but
endless others exist
---- Joy Rothke from Haiku
Error Message competition at Salon
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:50:15 -0700
From: "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsrule.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: K-list website.
Message-ID: <353385B7.2A9DATnospammacsrule.com>
Sorry, only limited JavaScript...
But here's what I can do:
Origian art & design
background music
high-quality animations (QuickTime)
And JavaScript functionality, such as cookies, track preferences,
default pages, and even welcome registered visitors by name.
And, if you really want, I could even host it. I have a 6MB account...
But my URL is a little long... (http://home.earthlink.net/~themacman/)
For ideas on what I can do, check out:
www.websyte.com/unity/fayark/you
home.earthlink.net/~themacman/
Open to ideas...
> indigenous art
> k-related poetry from members (those who have written on-list do shine!)
> and other writing from members including k-essays and k-fiction (!?)
> k-art from members
> more awakening stories -- even if archived under assumed names (some need privacy)
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:37:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: J B Bell <cipherATnospameschatek.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Introduction to a new listmember
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980414132106.4936C-100000ATnospamcamel.swcp.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Cut 'n' pasted from the list info:
1. Name
J B Bell. Yep, that's the whole thing.
2. Age
28.
3. When did you first become aware of kundalini in your life?
Somewhat difficult to say. I'm still getting accustomed to more "Eastern"
terminology. From reading the FAQ, I'd say quite some time, though I've
variously thought of it as magick, gnosis, etc. My background in terms of
study and practice has been focussed on Chaos Magick (which certainly uses
kundalini-like tools) and Gnosticism.
4. How long ago was this?
Lost in childhood. However, more recently, I had an experience that
seemed like a proper prana-kundalini or kundalini "awakening." I was
shrooming with my spiritual friend, and she exhaled into me. It blasted
the living hell out of my senses and I did sense the "uncoiling" in a
rather literal physical way. I was quite speechless for some amount of
time, and felt almost as if I had been somehow impregnated. The sense of
flow from the base of my spine, out the top of my head, and back down
again, like a personal magnetosphere, is still present when I concentrate
on it.
5. What are some of the things you have noticed?
Sensations described above; more below.
6. What has changed/is changing in your life?
Most significantly and obviously, my concentration appears improved, and
my usual anger seems to have subsided somewhat. A psychic accretion, the
machine paradigm (visualizations of mechanical monstrosities, locked up
areas in my mind, arcade-game-like overlays on reality a la _Terminator_
accompanied by violent fantasies), seems to have dramatically subsided.
This negative visualization now holds much less power than it did before
my awakening experience.
7. Do you have any particular practices that you have found helpful?
Though I have done various brands of more or less Western magick over the
past 10 years, I find myself with a sudden interest in a more ordinary
meditation practice. We'll see how this goes--I've got a lot of
uncompleted spiritual/magickal projects in my life.
8. Are you involved in any service to others?
Well, I often counsel my friends, and I occasionally post on
soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi, a support group for gay, lesbian,
bisexual, and questioning young people on Usenet. I certainly try to
exercise compassion in my life, but I have little formal involvement in
charitable work.
9. What are you hoping to get out of this list?
A good read or two, and some new perspective.
--JB
J B Bell | "A transcendence that cannot somehow be
cipherATnospamswcp.com | expressed is an incoherence."
http://www.swcp.com/~cipher | --Harold Bloom
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:10:39 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Joseph Miller'" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Cc: "margolisATnospamtransbay.net" <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
Subject: childhood kundalini (was RE: kundalini questions)
Message-ID: <01BD67A6.B93EE1E0.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
>Dan wrote:
><snip> What practice or experience caused your kundalini
>to awaken?
>Mine was awake at birth. <snip>
>Kurt asks:
>I wonder if you could expand on your comment ``awake at birth''. Can
you tell us more about what you were (and are) experiencing?
>
Joe replies:
Being awake at birth is not unheard of, my original post mentioned a
meeting with 5 others like me, all who live within a 30 mile radius.
Great saints often have this, though they are usually lucky enough that
K takes Susumna or other appropriate route, in me it took Vajra nadi.
Vajra can lead to several different things, among them a strong
appetites (for food and drink among other things), a strong sex drive,
and psychic powers. So I was a fat horny kid who knew he wasn't going to
"get any" :) (Sorry I am in a fun mood, though it is true.)
KK: In my understanding sushumna consists of three parts: vajra, chittra
and viraja. So I'm not sure the distinction your making between vajra nadi
and sushumna.
Joe:
As a young child I would "dream the future" (my term for it). This was
usually sleep dreams, once or twice day-dreams, where I would see the
future. It was always something where I was going to be and might
involve people I knew or strangers, locations I knew or strange places,
the common thing was sometime later, a day, week, month, or year or
more, I would realize I was in the exact place I'd dreamed about, doing
the same thing, with the same people. You'd think I'd have changed some
of the things I dreamed of doing that were "less than totally
productive" but I viewed it as set and just read my script. Looking back
there were some lost opportunities for improvement. With a very few rare
exceptions those dreams ended with puberty.
I could do other things, read cards by putting my hands on the back when
they were lying face down, and things like that. Whether I can do that
now, I don't know, I haven't tried in years. There were other symptoms,
last month I posted about my experience with lights, but all would fall
into the basket usually labeled "Psychic" and this post is long enough
already.
KK:
Joe, the reason that I'm pressing on here is that I don't have a model for
pre-pubescent kundalini experiences. (That doesn't mean there isn't one.)
Don't mean to question your experiences - all the stuff you describe above
sounds great and I can understand it being associated with predispositions
of the cakras - but it doesn't particularly sound like kundalini to me.
Still after meeting a pre-pubescent Tibetan incarnation last year I'm
beginning to think that there may be childhood kundalini. Anyway, here's
what I say in the Kundalini FAQ - would you agree? Did you experience these
in childhood?
What are the signs of an awakened kundalini?
Briefly, according to classical literature the signs of an awakened
kundalini can be grouped into: mental signs, vocal signs and physical
signs.
Mental signs can include visions that range from ecstatically blissful to
terrifyingly frightful. Vocal signs can include spontaneous vocal
expressions that range from singing or reciting mantras to make various
animals sounds such as growling or chirping. Physical signs include
trembling, shaking and spontaneously performing hatha yoga postures and
pranayamas.
>From a more subjective perspective the more pleasant experiences associated
with a kundalini awakening may include: waves of bliss, periods
of elation, glimpses of transcendental consciousness. The less pleasant
experiences associated with a kundalini awakening may include:
trembling, sharp aches in areas associated with the cakras, periods of
irrational anxiety, sudden flashes of heat.
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