1998/04/06 21:11
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #266
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 266
Today's Topics: Re: A Word From Mr. Miagi -- Warning [ Danijel Turina ]
Bhastrika revisited [ Kurt Keutzer ] Re: Doggy Kundalini [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" ]
Re: A Word From Mr. Miagi -- Warning [ "Gloria Lee" ] RE: Bhastrika revisited [ Kurt Keutzer ]
chakras [ odie ] Fundamentals (was ?s on Dangers of P [ Rik ]
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:51:08 +0200 From: Danijel Turina
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: A Word From Mr. Miagi -- Warning: Very Silly Content!
Message-Id:
>G.Lee:
>When they rip off "OUR" music..are they admitting we knew it ALL way >back then?? I used to wonder how these kids became so wise.. now I see
>they listen to our music.
Well... one coincidence: I was born the same year Mike Oldfield made his Tubular Bells. :) 1973. :)
Is it a conicidence, I wonder? ;))))))) He probably had to do it coz I wouldn't want to live in a world without the tubular bells on it. :))))))
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 16:20:36 -0800 From: anandajyoti
To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" CC: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'"
Subject: Re: On Dangers of Pranayama Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Kurt Keutzer wrote: A couple more ?'s and clarifications ...
> > Are all pranayamas dangerous without formal instruction and guidance from a
> teacher? >
> Anandajyoti> No, simpler ones are not. The main criterion is each person > has a different constitution, hence any method (count) of pranayama which
> creates any stress in the person should not be practiced, rather one needs to > find the
> position of balance for oneself and proceed in a regular , methodical manner, > similar
> to physical workouts for muscle enhancements. >
> KK: Could you be a little more specific about what pranayamas are safe - > and why.
Anandajyoti> According to Kundalini Yoga, the processes of Kumbhaka Pranayama
are divided in to four main categories.1. Suryabheda, 2. Ujjayi, 3. Sitali and 4. Bhastrika.
1.Suryabheda: It is the simplest: Breathe in through right nostril, hold for a second or two, and breathe out through the left nostril. This can be done
even while driving , or walking. The important thing here is the awareness. This balances the flow of prana in the whole body and is a very gradual
process and very natural. 2. Ujjayi: Draw in with both nostrils, with mouth closed, filling the prana in
between the neck and the heart, (here also awareness is involved) and retain for a comfortable length of time, (initially no more than four counts)
naturally , without any tension in the abdominal or chest muscles and breathe out through both nostrils. his can be practiced while walking or standing.
3. Sitali: It a method of drawing through the mouth with a hissing sound , very slowly, so one can feel the cool in the throat region. Retain the breath for a
count of four or six and slowly exhale through both nostrils. 4.Bhastrika: For this one one needs to sit down in lotus posture, with the
belly and neck in line. The first step is exhalation, through both nostrils, of all the air there was
before the start of this process. Then inhale slowly with the mouth, and feel the breath to fill the space between the neck and the medulla. Here awareness
of the prana moving is important as also the thought . As all bodily actions done by the conscious mind follow the thought. Then exhale through both the
nostrils again. This process is repeated for at least three to six times. Then one must do the bellows breath or diaphragmatic breathing the same way ,
drawing in through the mouth and holding for a count of four or six and exhaling through the nostrils, till the air in the belly is taken out, and this
is observed by the belly being sucked in towards the spine. This process requires a teacher be present during the initial learning periods.
Other wise, due to irregular and sudden involuntary contractions or expansions, the nerves and the muscles may be strained and the person may experience pain
in many areas of the body. like neuralgic pain. That is why the Bhastrika should be a no-no , just by reading books.
The first three are safe, as they do not make involuntary contractions or expansions in the nerves or the muscles, and no side effects would occur. But
with Bhastrika one needs to be cautious, for their own health and sanity.
>
> > KK: I'm afraid this question has lost it's context. The wording is a bit
> confusing: It should read: > Why is practicing pranayama under a guru safer?
> Is it because of the guidance of the guru in case unpleasant effects occur?
Anandajyoti. Quite rightly so, as you stated above. It is like in the gym, one can try to lift weights beyond their capacity at the time, and may severely
damage some tendons or muscles, through shearing. But in the presence of a teacher/trainer , it is checked by the trainer, with the build, and
constitution of the person, who can easily suggest upto what level of weights one may try to lift.I hope this makes sense. So guidance in advanced method
for the Bhastrika is of paramount importance.
> >
> KK: In other words, is practicing pranayama under a guru safer because the > guru is able to recognize and provide antidotes, of some sort, to
> unpleasant side-effects.
Anandajyoti> You have understood it very rightly.
> >
> Anandajyoti> If the guru is only one who has read from books and never > practiced
> himself/herself , I think for such a one it would be hard to recognize the > effects in
> the students if unpleasant experiences do come in the way. Another reason > could well
> be such gurus don't have malpractice insurance , I believe. >
> KK: I think you read it as: Is the guru responsible for unpleasant > side-effects.
Anandajyoti> In my opinion the Guru should be responsible, for the side
effects, if they occur and be there to help the student in all possible ways. Otherwise , I would doubt the Guru. But this is just my opinion.
All the above are also called Sahita meaning which is within the physical limits of the person.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 17:16:52 -0800
From: anandajyoti To: Jan Barendrecht
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: KL : EGO
Message-ID:
Jan Barendrecht wrote: > janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
> Jan: I agree that a neutral mind is necessary - but Sandeep wrote: > >>One has not to fall into the whirl of calming the mind
> >>That in itself is the restlessness > >>The mind is what it is, accept it as such
> >>This acceptance brings peace. > and he denies that mind must be controlled before it can be accepted.
> Declaring the control of mind to be useless contradicts yoga: > Patanjali I.2: "Yoga is controlling the activities of mind" and my mental
> excursion with a bankrobber was only meant to show the absurdity of: > "accepting the mind as it is".
Anandajyoti> The first Sutra of Patanjali states : "Yoga Chitta Vritti
Nirodha"which is not control, but to consciously bring to a halt the wandering mind. The nature of the mind is to think constantly , either consciously or
subconsciously. So basically the first sutra alludes to reversing the process of the way the mind functions, in the natural way with the willful intervention .
What Sandeep wrote is also true for certain people, at certain stages of their life's experiences, for each of us are unique. This also applies to the comments
made by Tg and yourself too, IMHO. Course of miracles , I think considers the ego to be a different entity apart
from the Self. As I read the book , I find it takes on bits of wisdom, from various disciplines and boils it down to the ego factor, in each and every
chapter. The whole course it appears to me harps on the ego factor throughout, and makes one meditate on the ego and think about it all the time. As a result I
think, the ego becomes larger and larger compared to the all the aspects of the SELF. This is simply my opinion after reading page after page of the book. I
also think , there are many who need the help of the course at certain levels.
> Jan: The judge: "Why did you commit this crime?" The suspect: "I> accepted my > mind as it is and it brought me peace. Hadn't it been for the > detective ,
> it would even have brought me a million bucks ". Jan> The white-collar bankrobber didn't have a restless mind of course. He had
planned the job long ago and his mind was under complete control - if you apply full concentration, the mind is always under control. Had the man practiced yoga
according to Patanjali, the very thought of robbing the bank wouldn't have entered his controlled mind.
Anandajyoti> The work of the Bank robber was intention, with full awareness. He could only not do it if he chose not to. I don't think he needed the Patanjali
Yoga to make that determination.
Sandeep: >Rejection is restlessness, acceptance is peace- and he who> reaches total>acceptance "attains"
Anandajyoti> The ideas of both restlessness and peace are the two sides of the same Mind. One needs to have the conscious , considered choice and followed by
intentional action, be what it is. Acceptance or non acceptance are also the two polarities of the same mind. What
I think , is lacking is the awareness of the SELF itself.
Sandeep: >Acceptance cannot come from an act of will.>"I accept" conceals non-acceptance>because will is always of the ego. Ego cannot live unless fed by
rejection.>Acceptance can never be brought about by action, >only understanding life can bring it about.
Anandajyoti> The ego stays till we part from this body. The difference is between the unripe ego and the ripe ego. One chooses to live with an unripe ego
and goes on a power trip, and another thrives to ripen it and know its real purpose in this life, and use it for further developments in all facets of life
itself, for benefits which emanate from the ripe ego.
> >
> Jan: The ego is not something with a switch: on with fear etc., off when "at > peace". It contradicts the observation that jivan muktas can show traces of
> anger etc. Yet a jivan mukta is without even a trace of ego. Ramana > Maharishi would have asked: "can you show me the ego if you don't think?"
> Without mind there is no ego. Control of the activities of mind (yoga) means > control of ego also.
Anandajyoti> I can possibly agree with the above.
> Jan: Understanding life needs some kind of mental action for its
> accomplishment. It contradicts the preceding phrase: >Acceptance can never > be brought about by action. Can anyone even breathe without the effort of the autonomic nervous
system? although it is not a conscious activity. A part of the mind also take scare of that, with our conscious awareness of it .
> > Jan: On the contrary, desire is very powerful. There are mental states
> > where only anxiety and utter confusion are present - no desires. > > These states
> > are extremely restless, sometimes to the extent that hospitalization is > > necessary.
Anandajyoti> If the Infinite never desired to create, the Universe would not be
here.
> > Sandeep: >All error, all ignorance comes from identification. > >
> > Jan: No, Identification and error come from ignorance, not > > the other way.
> > In classical yoga,ignorance (avidya) is the principle among the > > five causes
> > of affliction.
Anandajyoti> Sandeep's view is also correct for them , who choose to identify with error and/or ignorance. I would respect their choice too. There is no right
or wrong in this infinite ocean of life.
> > xxxtg (These opinions may expire any moment due to only knowing what I > > know right
> > now) > Anandajyoti> What is life but inspiration and expiration, so are opinions or
> viewpoints. >
Jan>If ignorance is the result of identification, who is identifying with
whom?Anandajyoti> Identifying with the ignorant self.
> Jan>Because ignorance (avidya) means not knowing the Self, without ignorance, > caused by your identification, you must be experiencing the Self! But if you
> are experiencing the Self, there is absolutely nothing to identify with... > in both meanings. So I am afraid you are experiencing avidya...
> > Anandajyoti> I think, at this stage , one is experiencing the unripe ego.
Anandajyoti>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:43:42 EST From: Druout
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: KL : EGO
Message-ID:
Dear Jan,
I really like your dog-gerel!
Love, Hillary Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:19:48 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer To: "'anandajyoti'"
Cc: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" Subject: Bhastrika revisited
Message-ID:
Anandahyoti wrote: 4.Bhastrika: For this one one needs to sit down in lotus posture, with the
belly and neck in line. The first step is exhalation, through both nostrils, of all the air there
was before the start of this process. Then inhale slowly with the mouth, and
feel the breath to fill the space between the neck and the medulla. Here
awareness of the prana moving is important as also the thought . As all bodily
actions done by the conscious mind follow the thought. Then exhale through both
the nostrils again. This process is repeated for at least three to six times.
Then one must do the bellows breath or diaphragmatic breathing the same way ,
drawing in through the mouth and holding for a count of four or six and exhaling through the nostrils, till the air in the belly is taken out, and
this is observed by the belly being sucked in towards the spine.
This process requires a teacher be present during the initial learning periods.
Other wise, due to irregular and sudden involuntary contractions or expansions,
the nerves and the muscles may be strained and the person may experience pain
in many areas of the body. like neuralgic pain. That is why the Bhastrika should be a no-no , just by reading books.
The first three are safe, as they do not make involuntary contractions or expansions in the nerves or the muscles, and no side effects would occur.
But with Bhastrika one needs to be cautious, for their own health and sanity.
KK:
This reminded me that we never closed out the prior bhastrika discussion. Does bhastrika awaken kundalini?
B. K. S. Iyengar writes in *Light on Pranayama*:
``Many people misconceive that bhastrika pranayama awakens the kundalini shakti. The authoritative books have said the same regarding many
pranayamas and asanas, but this is far from true. [Looks like I'm not the only one who questions authority]. There is no doubt that bhastika and
kapalabhati refresh the brain and stir it to activity, but if people perform them because they believe they awaken the kundalini, disaster to
body, nerves and brain may result.''
On the other hand K. S. Joshi, student of Swami Kuvalayananda, founder of the Kaivalyadharma Center wrote in *Yogic Pranayama*:
``... This variety of pranayam is recommended for the purpose of arousing the kundalini quickly.''
What to make of this. Briefly, kundalini is awakened when the sun/Surya
power is awakened at the navel cakra. The heat is said to awaken the sleeping serpent. So how to awaken the sun/Surya power?
The most commonly described method is to unite prana and apana - for more detail on this refer to the kundalini-yoga-faq.
Another method is apparently through simply breathing through the right nostril (closing the left). The right channel (pingala) is associated with
the sun and focusing on breathing exclusively through the right nostril. is said to awaken the sun/Surya at the navel. Never confirmed this myself but
have found it a number of places.
So what's the story with bhastrika. Practiced alone, I would agree with B. K. S. Iyengar. However, if bhastrika is augmented in either of two ways:
a) by applying mula bandha (see kundalini faq, or your favorite yoga book) - this will unite prana (due to bhastrika) and apana (due to mula bandha)
b) (if you buy this right nostril stuff), then practicing bhastrika with the right nostril only or with alternation of nostrils (due to the right
channel being activated)
In K. S. Joshi's book he describes the alternation of nostrils during bhastrika. In many other books on pranayama the mula bandha is also
applied. So perhaps this explains the variety of views.
Also, I would agree with Ananandajyoti that for safety, Bhastrika should be practiced only with guidance.
Kind Regards,
Kurt Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:14:16 -0800
From: Dan Margolis To: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'"
Subject: kundalini questions Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I would like to propose another survey. For everyone on the list who's
kundalini is awakened:What practice or experience caused your kundalini to awaken?
Mine was/is simply za-zen(breath) meditation with attention paid to the spine.
Dan M.
If this poll has already been done please refer me to the earlier posting on
it. Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:22:45 -0800
From: anandajyoti To: Druout
CC: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re:Simple Pranayama
Message-ID:
Anandajyoti> That is the sahaja or simple pranayama with awareness, attention on the specific body parts. This is the method taught in Hatha Yoga or calisthenics.
The basic understanding of this method as in all pranayamas, is that our actions follow our thoughts.
For example, if you think that you ought to pick up a pencil from the table, then your hand automatically goes to complete the action. Now, if you want to pick up
the pencil with your toes, then a further thought is used to use the feet. Try this awareness method and see you will find out how thoughts propel our actions.
The time for this happens instantaneously. If you are aware then you would be able to catch the moment the thought arises in your mind.
Anandajyoti http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Druout wrote:
> I have a quick question. What is the name (if any) of the Pranayama that one
> practices while doing asanas-- ie breathing in and out through nostrils but in > tune with body positions.
> > Thanks,
> > Love, Hillary
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:20:12 EST From: LHodges942
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: A new Mantra
Message-ID:
While taking a long, relaxing soak in the hot tub tonight, with only one candle flame the following Mantra occurred to me. I thought I would share it
with anyone and everyone. It is to be chanted slowly while looking either at the flame within or without
I AM THE FLAME THAT CONSUMES ALL
I AM THE FLAME
I AM THE SPARK THAT IGNITES THE FLAME
I AM THE SPARK
I AM THE I AM
I AM
I
It was a very powerful Mantra for me, and if you use it I would like to hear
your comments.
Leona Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:37:20 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" To: deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com, kl List
Subject: Re: Doggy Kundalini Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I don't know much about parvo, what is Aero's prognosis?
Love, Orea
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:01:33 PST From: "Gloria Lee"
To: margolisATnospamtransbay.net Cc: themacmanATnospammacsrule.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, pamie59ATnospamyahoo.com
Subject: Re: A Word From Mr. Miagi -- Warning: Very Silly Content! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
snip >> >Pam wrote:
>> >Ah yes, but this only works if one also practices the "wax on wax off"
>> >ritual in conjunction with the guru floyd's lyrical muses. :D> >> >>
>> G.Lee: >> When they rip off "OUR" music..are they admitting we knew it ALL way
>> back then?? I used to wonder how these kids became so wise.. now I see
>> they listen to our music. >>
> >When took ownership of YOUR music did you get a title or deed to it?
>Without a receipt you can't prove anything. ;) >
>g lee >Heh heh...learned way back then, there is no need to prove anything.
Anyway, pearls cast before swine are still pearls...so anyone is welcome
to listen to it... (casting no aspersions on present company)
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Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:21:47 -0800 From: Kurt Keutzer
To: "'anandajyoti'" Cc: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'"
Subject: RE: Bhastrika revisited Message-ID:
KK:
> What to make of this. Briefly, kundalini is awakened when the sun/Surya power
> is awakened at the navel cakra. The heat is said to awaken the sleeping > serpent. So how to awaken the sun/Surya power?
Anandajyoti> I would welcome some comment on this question, "on how to
awaken this Solar power?" Why do not the Gurus or even illustrious authors on the
subject spell it out?
KK: I'm not sure I understand your comment. I follow my own rhetorical question
with a couple examples of how. The most commonly described method is to unite prana and apana - for more
detail on this refer to the kundalini-yoga-faq.
Another method is apparently through simply breathing through the right nostril (closing the left). The right channel (pingala) is associated with
the sun and focusing on breathing exclusively through the right nostril. is said to awaken the sun/Surya at the navel. Never confirmed this myself but
have found it a number of places.
Which you noted. (I was happy to get your comments regarding breathing through the right nostril. So this approach makes sense to you I guess.
I've never tried it for any duration.
So can you elaborate on your comment: `` Why do not the Gurus or even illustrious authors on the
subject spell it out?''
Kind Regards, Kurt Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:01:30 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Fwd:A friend's poem for Mystress Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
> >Latent Ferality
>by Jen Llyne Burton >
>Do not ever think me tame. >I bow my head to you in respect, not servility;
>I am yours only as you are also mine; >Mortally perilous for you the day
>you expect pliability without question, >heedless of my latent ferality.
> >I never wished to be yours, or anyone's,
>yet I nakedly acceded and yielded >to a power far greater than the sum of all our parts;
>as did you -- even if you do not care to remember. >I gave willingly to you, and shall continue to do so,
>but I never gave in, nor ever will. >
> >Don't underestimate me --
>the threat of wildness impassions you, >but the enactment would be a force you could not stand against.
>It is not my will to hurt you, >but act against me, even unwitting,
>and I must, and shall, fight. >I cannot help but win, and in doing so, insure that we both lose.
> >You had a dream those about you could not understand,
>an ambition encompassing >the by-product of the genius of Orpheus --
>that your soul might be a beacon >to lure the shy wild fierce ones from their lairs
>to the holt of your arms. >I am the realization of your ambition;
>heed your mentor's fate. >
>The silken leash bound round my neck >is no match for that one of steel with which your heart is snared;
>mine I can savage at my discretion >strength over-ruling all protest,
>while neither you nor I >can remove that one caging your heart,
>which will be an ever-wounding weight >as the years accrue and adhere to it --
>that which was so light and airy >when fickle fancy slyly slipped it on.
> >
>If you do not take care, >your desire will enflesh your destruction.
>Call upon me not for shallow or temporal cause, >but only in true need, intellectual, spiritual or carnal.
>For that, I shall obey ever, >but call upon me taking my devotion for granted
>and the embers of my love which you so carefully tended >will arise and blaze untrammelled in fury,
>leaving you charred and forever tortured in their wake >without guilt, though not without regret.
>Do not ever think me tame. >
> >Copyright 1994, Jen Llyne Burton
>
> I read it to this day and it frightens me in its elegance and >eloquence. I feel like _I_ didn't write it, that it wrote myself
through >me, or Someone did. It occurs to me in retrospect that I might have
been >channeling Sekhmet.
>
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Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:21:16 -0500 From: odie
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" Subject: chakras
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------58F006BA2C220A014812326D"
A question for the more experienced in K. when the K travels through the
chakras what will happen if the ch. are not pure and open. next ?. how do i go
about purifying the chakras to help speed K on its way up. what are the best meditation
methods to use to awaken K. Sorry for all the seemingly simple,stupid ?s but i
am new and learning and could use the wisdom i find on this post. Joe
--
MZ‰
Attachment Converted: "d:\slip\eudora\attach\kundal30"
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:55:04 -0800 (PST) From: Rik
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Cc: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, rik_wATnospamrocketmail.com
Subject: Fundamentals (was ?s on Dangers of Pranayama) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Kurt Keutzer wrote: >
> > This seems to be a pretty important issue and has caused a lot of
> discussion. I wonder if we might try to find common ground by at > least agreeing on the relevant questions. Sometimes posing the right
> question can help find the solution.
Thanks Kurt. Excellent topic! I'll be the first to admit that I haven't had any formal training or supervision in Pranayama.
Perhaps for this very reason, I might be able to offer suggestions on the "fundamentals" which may apply across the board to any
meditative practice.
Rather than a list of breathing exercises, Pranayama is essentialy *focused breathing*, i.e. focusing on the breath and noticing
what happens in your body, in your mind, and in your environment even. Like all meditative practices, the purpose is to learn to FOCUS FOCUS
FOCUS. For this reason, any practice that inspires an urge to focus should be encouraged, especially if the inspiration is a desire to
be more comfortable, whether physically mentally spiritually - whatever. You could call this a basic principle: If something draws your
attention, focus on it. Go with the flow and notice what happens.
With regards to safety, the basic principle is *Staying Grounded*. This means that no matter where you trip to, every step of the way,
Make Sure You Have a Way To Get Back Home, to your job, to your friends and family, to your Life. Remembering the lesson of
Hansel and Gretel, bread crumbs are not a great way to mark your path - Wear a leash instead. That is, unless you're the type who
thinks material bonds aren't real, in which case, Please Get a Guru!
In cases where a Guru is consulted, the Guru first needs to recognize that they are being consulted b/c the student feels a danger, i.e.
b/c they can't do it alone. The Guru's primary role is not to take the student on fancy world-expanding trips; it's to keep
them grounded and ultimately help them realize that They are Already Home. To do this, a Guru needs to be skilled enough to keep their
students on a VERY SHORT LEASH. One could say that "enlightenment" a Guru does not make - it's a solid understanding of fundamental
materialism (yes, materialism!) that should be strived for. *A rock has no kundalini problems.*
Hope that's a start towards answering your questions...
Best regards, Rik ...stay focused.
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