1998/04/01 06:30
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #252
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 252
Today's Topics: Re: After Death Communications [ freda ]
Re: Auto post from Patrick [ di ] Re: GOD THE TORTURER [ MMeyers541 ]
Re: After Death Communications [ Mark Anthony Collins ] Re: Shakti poll [ "Jan Barendrecht" ]
No Mo' Free Lunch! [ valeriec ] Re: HRTZEN: No Mo' Free Lunch! [ Gloria Greco ]
Re: Unsubscribe [ "Peter L. Sutphen" ] Re: Dreams [ Dee777 ]
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:06:44 -0800 From: freda
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: After Death Communications
Message-ID:
Dear K-list, This is long winded....many of you may want to delete it, it is personal
experience.
When my grampa died I was in Jr. High. I had not been close to anyone who had died before, so his death was my first contact with such a loss.
It did not seem he was gone then, and he is still not gone. I know he is with me sometimes. I catch myself talking to him, asking him questions
and feeling good when he approves of my actions, just as I did when I was small and I'd sit on his lap.
Grampa died of colon cancer. He was in a comma for a while. My aunt and uncle took him and Gramma to their house and they cared for him there
till he passed. About a week before he died, he woke from his comma. He asked that his
children come if possible, he had 2 sons and 2 daughters, all did come and he stayed out of the comma until he had spoken to each of them.
During this week, as you might expect gramma and grampa spent as much time as possible talking and being with each other, he was pretty weak
and was bed ridden the last few months, although confined to bed they say he was real clear in his thinking and speach.
Grampa told their children (all grown of corse, with children of their own) to help their mother accept that it was time he went on, that it
was okay and he needed her to be comfortable with it so she would let him go.
He told gramma that he needed her to let him go but that he would stay until she was ready, if he could.
Gramma did, as best as she was able. Grampa went into a comma again for 3 days before he died.
His death came as a surprise to a couple of Temple workers who had
worked with grampa 2 days before he passed. I am told that his name is in the book at the Temple as a worker that
day. The men said he looked normal and healty and that grampa did not go into detail about his illness, only that he was much better and was
ready to do some Temple work as he had missed it during his illness.
I questioned the possibility of this story. Until....
My Gramma was very sick the last year she was with us. The same aunt and
uncle went to Gramma's house to care for her, Gramma did not like hospitals (both she and grampa had spent months in the hospital and
numerous surgeries over the years in hospitals after a car accident when they were newlyweds) it was their wish to die at home.
Gramma kept a daily journal from the time she was in school, scrapbooks practicly as she kept every corosponence and card carefully
tucked into its proper place, everything dated. the collection is quite informative - a real treasure, one of which the family is quite
proud.... The night gramma died my aunt and uncle were on the porch just outside
grammas bedroom window, gramma was sleeping and they were just enjoying the cool nightime (it was July in Utah)
Gramma had seen all her children, just as had grampa. She got up out of bed, (usually she needed assistance/wheel chair) and tapped on the
window for them to come inside. They came in to find her sitting on the bed and she calmly told them she
was ready. Then said her goodbyes and went back to sleep. My aunt and uncle sat with her through the night and she died just before daybreak.
I had a visit from my gramma that night while she slept.
She came to me as I slept. she took me on a trip accross country in a car... strange in itself
because gramma was petrified of automobils having been in a real bad rollover accident as a young woman, but she was driving! she NEVER had
in her life driven a car. She was enjoying it, I could tell. She told me things which were outragous at the time.
I did not understand them then. As the next few months passed, the things she illuded to in the dream
came to be, then the visit made sense.
I had written it down and sent it on to my aunt because I was NOT the only person she visited that night.
I did not understand the content of the dream but my aunt thought it should be added to the journals, so I sent it to her. I pretty much
dismissed it. She reminded me of this about a year later and mailed me a copy of it.
(I might add here that my aunts reasons for reminding me had nothing to
do with proving gramma had a message for me, she sent it to me to prove to me that my recovered memories were most likely just a spin-off of my
dream - not real, just more dream stuff..... strange, she didn't have a problem with the "others" whom gramma visited, but she only told them
goodbye and that she loved them, that sort of stuff. She didn't give them confermation ahead of time about the skeletons in the closet! oh
well....)
My other aunt and her husband were on a mission at the time in a secluded area in Spain there were no phones so she had no idea that
gramma had died. My aunt had had a visit from her mother in her sleep Not the night she died, but the following night, and she insisted she
and my uncle get into town to use a phone because she was sure by the things gramma told her, that gramma had passed on. gramma told her,
amoungst other things, about a video tape which she had put together of old home movies the tape was accominied by a soundtrack of this aunt
playing "Flight of the Bumblebee" on her xylophone and grampa playing a song he wrote and played/sang to gramma the night he proposed marrige.
Nobody even knew of the existace of this video, it was still at the shop where it had been spliced or whatever they do to them.....it was a tape
gramma had had made for her memorial service, evident because she narrates it herself, in the past tense..
There were a total of 5 persons (that I have heard of) who called my
aunt that day who knew gramma had died because of her visit in their dreams........
I have not personally spoken to the others so I will not include their stories.
The dream, I now beleive, had been intended to prepare me for some
really disturbing information that was about to come out about the family, or maybe more accuratly, to confirm what I had not yet known.
Within 6 months my whole world had been blown to smithereens! a new understanding began to unfold,
My gramma had told me, in a dreamy way, that the accusations and the stories, even the most bazar of them, were truth.
It didn't make it any easier to believe, or accept, but it did help. Especially when denial would have been an option. Except it wasn't an
option, gramma had seen to that! I think she knew the cycle would continue unless someone did something
to end it and she was doing what she could in her death that she could not do in life.
Many of the family are lost to me now, as a result (well all but 3 of a
few hundred, yeah, it would be fair to say thats a few :) :0 all the more reason I treasure my copies of gramma's journals
All that may sound way out there,
so be it. It is as I know it.
I beleive, without a doubt, that death does not end the possibility of communication with the living.
although I have to admit,I did NOT believe this possible, until my gramma set me strait.
---I find it interesting that I still talk with my grampa, but I have
not had such contact with my gramma sence the night she passed....I knew my grampa as a child mostly, but my gramma lived until I was 32. (its
that age bracket again!) freda
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:30:23 -0500 From: di
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Auto post from Patrick
Message-Id:
I agree--Yeah, so awakening can sometimes hurt--did you expect the Way to
be easy?? Pull thru and you are enlightened. Get lost in pain and the dwelling of it and there you shall remain.........
*Honeybuds* aka Diane F.
Hello - what has happened to the list - it seems to be stuck in 1996-7.
Has Hawaii been invaded by aliens ? If anyone is out there please make contact .
Knowledge of the kundalini might be the only way to defeat them . Unless we have become the aliens that is and that is why no one is talking .
Do you speak my language ? Comprendo , signor? Aloha ? Well if you are out there - in here - its time we got talking , even if it is
to a mute computer . I have enjoyed complete kundalini realisation for the last ten years and
believe it is the true and only philosopher's stone or elixir of everlasting life .
By everlasting life I mean that now that my spirit has become consciously liberated
through the piercing of the Sahasrara Chakra I have become my spirit . So what if my body is perishable , everything seems to be so disposable ,
its no surprise that when I've finished using it , I simply throw it away .
Of course that doesn't stop anyone else from picking it up and putting it somewhere else . But that's human beings for you .
Until they are liberated themselves they often tend to stick with the things they know , clingy
touchy feely attachments to their sympathetic energies that as yet they have not superceded.
(Now I sound like an alien .) But all I hear from you people is how hard life is for having encountered
kundalini .How much work you have to put in just to put her right , or yourselves right or whatever . Yet you never
seem to get it do you ? Am I living in the right century ? Was I born too early ? Where have you been ? I mean any one can get
kundalini realisation today and you do not have to perform a bagful of tricks just to keep it .But you still do not
seem to get it . If it was made easy for you , you would still refuse , simply because you
have just got too used to a bucking horse or a freaking spiritual possession to ever see beyond 'the first few
steps'. Why don't you admit it ? You are all either ignorant , frightened or just plain stoical in regard to
the truth and that is why you are just not prepared to help youselves make it easier . Instead of all this suffering
for the sake of some dumb journeyman mastery where you take a lifetime to get it you can now have it straight away
without a dime to pay . But will you ? No way ! Your just too damn stuck in your ways !
Adam Kadmon a.k.a. Severin Severin a.k.a.Arthur Avalon a.k.a.Saktiman.
I do apologise for my alter egos taking control - I hope they didn't lambast you too much with their triumphalist talk .Nobody seems to want to
listen . Perhaps they are too arrogant and disrespectful .They do want to make
contact but feel much like hippy kids who cannot communicate with their parents who still take LSD . The kids have been born
into it and can now trip spontaneously without the artificial enhancers . The adults swear that that is all it is .
Who is right ? I dare say we are all a bit of both nowadays .We need food to live but we can also dream in colour.
Well if I haven't frightened you off please reply to my E-mail ; as to my alter-egos , they know what it is to know all things, but
don't let that put you off questioning them , after all they might have something you want , or else something you can't yet get which is why this
list is up and running . Patrick Radford.
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:32:24 EST From: MMeyers541
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: GOD THE TORTURER Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 98-03-31 16:57:44 EST, Jan writes:
< Unfortunately, many experiencing K. have adopted a frame of reference and
one thing such a frame of reference does, is to shape the experiences. >>
Michele: John, Jan is right. Back in the 70's I used to have "bad pot" experiences. Think positive! There're a lot of kundalini benefits awaiting
you. Take care--Michele Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:42:01 -0800
From: Mark Anthony Collins To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: After Death Communications Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Life and death are both illusions. Existence is eternal. Nothing is ever
lost. Nothing increases, it just expands....
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Therein lies the peace of God. -- A Course In Miracles
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:36:42 EST From: Harsha1MTM
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: GOD THE TORTURER
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-03-31 16:57:51 EST, janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
< The way Shree Purohit Swami described his K. awakening is far worse: he could
not even sit in any asana. He could not have been typing a letter as you still can do. Yet he did hold on and attained of course. With beliefs you
must be careful always: how would you have reacted without belief in a heavenly father? But if you are insisting on a heavenly father, you have no
other choice than to accept the entire episode as a kind of test and make the best out of it.
>>
Harsha: I snipped most of Jan's post that is full of much wisdom about the Kundalini Shakti and how it is conceptualized in various traditions. It is
worth reading for those just starting on the path. The fact is that many people have a difficult time in the spiritual life. It is also true that
spiritual aspirants have the built in capacity to overcome obstacles and Realize the Self. The major requirement for attaining success on the spiritual
path is to continue with faith and devotion and simply hang on through thick and thin. Having guidance and compassionate support helps. As Alan Perry has
pointed out many times, going steadily and gradually in a natural way smooths the path of Kundalini Yoga. I have seen very helpful advice to those who may
be suffering on this list from the many beautiful people here. Love and Grace are not dependent on distance or physical presence. God bless everyone with
all that is best in life with peace in their hearts.
Harsha Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:53:43 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" To:
Subject: Re: Shakti poll Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-------``who have you met that has the sweetest shakti''------- A disciple of Hazrat Inayat Khan I once met, radiated the aspect of love.
A disciple of a Rosicrucian master I once met, radiated the aspect of wisdom and acceptance.
-------``who have you met, that wasn't a spiritual practitioner, that has
the most >shakti''-------
My father's mother radiated compassion and caring for others, despite the agony of the dreaded MS.
-------`who have you met that has the most shakti''-------
No one.
Jan Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:48:23 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: A Deep Thought Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.
--Deep Thoughts, Jack Handy
Had to get in there on the enlightenment thread, amckeon
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:54:39 EST From: MMeyers541
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: GOD THE TORTURER
Message-ID:
Jan to John:< Unfortunately, many experiencing K. have adopted a frame of reference and one thing such a frame of reference does, is to shape the
experiences. >>
Michele: John, Jan is right. Back in the 70's I used to have "bad pot" experiences. Think positive! There're a lot of kundalini benefits awaiting
you. Take care--Michele >> Michele again: Upon rereading my above email AFTER sending it.... Wish I
could unsend it, because I don't want to start a thread on the pluses & minuses of drug use; Only brought up the experience to give John support about
"reframing" his k-experience (because you can choose not to smoke pot again, but after k-awakening, there's no turning back. Bad example).
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:14:03 -0800 From: valeriec
To: listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE CC: CYBERMINDATnospamLISTSERV.AOL.COM, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: No Mo' Free Lunch! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Howdy - Doody; i do believe my ship's a'comin' in!
any minute now, i gonna have to move my whole computer office stuff & modem & scanner down to the shop on the dock, cos we aren't even open
yet, but a world is screaming for *original* t-shirts & designs! How will I ever stay sane if I cannot rant & rave & be a literaturlish
*smart-ass* at 3AM, when bitten by the muses? I need a laptop & another modem! I want to be a cyborg! I need to write a grant, or somethin'...
Even now, I had to download Netscape Communicator because my Gold became corrupt due to an oversight by my ISP, & I don' git the blarney fangled
buttons yet, & - already it hurts! It hurts my brain to be disconnected from the Net, & now I need to go - to move - to create more visually &
musically outward & beyond rather than the incessant ruminations of imploding unnamed yearnings & dissatisfactions! My yang done used up my
yin; i can just 'sense it', & I am SO CONFUSED!!! ow - woooooooo!!!
Does anybody out there have a spare PC or modem I can trade a painting for? Just for gettin on the Internet at home? I'll trade anything
(except my sanctimonious virtues), & even might have some Yankee $$$! I'm freakin' out up here; I'm not used to having a *real life*, & not
sure I can cope with it without another Net access... AIYEEEEEEEEEE!
Any ideas? Thankyou in advance,
;-) sincerely,
vc Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:20:21 +0100
From: Gloria Greco To: madammumATnospamptialaska.net
CC: listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE, CYBERMINDATnospamLISTSERV.AOL.COM, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: No Mo' Free Lunch! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
valeriec wrote:
> > Howdy - Doody; i do believe my ship's a'comin' in!
> any minute now, i gonna have to move my whole computer office stuff & > modem & scanner down to the shop on the dock, cos we aren't even open
> yet, but a world is screaming for *original* t-shirts & designs!
GG Sounds exciting Val, I don't have an extra but something will come up,
just go with it? It sounds like your taking a big step, and going into that unknown can be a little shaky at first, but you will do fine. Keep
in touch as you can. Stay back and observe your mind and then you will not get so wrapped up in it, and can experience it on a higher level.
> >
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ &
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:33:39 EST From: Imtgxxx
To: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A Deep Thought Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 3/31/98 7:43:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, amckeon writes:
<If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it
makes beer shoot out your nose. --Deep Thoughts, Jack Handy>>
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. --Deep Thoughts, tg
xxxtg
* Having abandoned my search for truth, I am looking for a good fantasy * Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:32:49 -0500
From: "Peter L. Sutphen" To:
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01BD5CF4.EF7D8C00"
please!!!!!!! unsubscribe me!!!! If this arrives at the wrong computer doorstep, please forgive me, but I am trying to unsubscribe from this list and nothing seems to be working!! What am I doing wrong??
-Peter -----Original Message-----
From: Paolo Giannini To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:47 AM Subject: Please remove me from you mailing list
Thank you for the experience
Regards Paolo G.
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\ATTACH\kundali9"
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:56:12 -0800 From: Kurt Keutzer
To: "'Dirk Haueter'" , "'kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com'"
Cc: "'keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu'" Subject: RE: Shakti poll
Message-ID:
Here's the way I model it:
There's a transmitter (shakti source) the medium (who knows) and the receiver (you) and the message ( the shakti)
The shakti has (at least) two characteristics - amplitude (power) and frequency (quality)
Different transmitters transmit at different frequencies (e.g. sweetness ) with varying power Different receivers can pick up different frequencies with different degrees of sensitivity.
Since kundalini-l has so many receivers - I think we will get an interesting perspective on what's playing out there on the waves.
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Dirk Haueter [SMTP:Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 9:09 AM
To: Kurt Keutzer; 'kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com' Subject: RE: Shakti poll
Dear Kurt,
This is indeed a fun poll. I'm curious here hear some of the replies. What you get will be more about the observer however. I'll give you an example. One of
the people on your list is HH Dalai Lama. In 1987 I was in India with my teacher Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. My mother also happen to be passing through India on some
tour. She was going to see the Dalai Lama so I was persuaded to go along. Wonderful man. Very charming. Wonderful sense of humor but I felt no buzz. I
could not understand at the time why people got so excited about him. I did not feel anywhere near the same presence as I felt with my teacher. What a joke on
me! We resonate with and a spectrum of energy. When we are only open in a certain frequency range that is all we are able to perceive. Would I have a
different reaction to his holiness today? Probably. At least I would like to think so. It is a great gift to have a broad perspective. Then we can see how
the shakti moves differently in each person and in each in different ways. Love,
Dirk Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:10:54 -0800
From: "Paolo Giannini" To:
Subject: Fw: Please remove me from you mailing list Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01BD5D45.B14D4640"
-----Original Message----- From: Paolo Giannini
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Date: 31 March 1998 03:49
Subject: Please remove me from you mailing list
Thank you for the experience
Regards
Paolo G.
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\ATTACH\kundal10" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:26:38 EST
From: Dee777 To: onarresATnospaminreach.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dreams Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi All:
There is a link to the animal totem site at:
http://members.aol.com/Feliceanna/condo.htm
That is a metaphysical site. It has links to various metaphysical subjects, including kundalini, shamanism, and dreams.
Love, Light, and Joy
Dee
In a message dated 98-03-29 15:44:59 EST, you write:
< Subj: Re: Dreams
Date: 98-03-29 15:44:59 EST From: onarresATnospaminreach.com
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com (Druout) CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Hillary and John,
Although I missed John's post regarding dreams (I was off line for awhile)
I offer the below information.
Totem animals: My first dream of a bear was when I was three years old... believe it or not. It chased me, I eluded it, but that was not the end of
the bear. Later I found that we all have totem animals, mine's that bear. Now it comes in as a playful one romping around in the snow or just
meandering around, (I don't live where there is snow). There is a URL somewhere on totem animals, unfortunately I can't find it at this time...
someone on this list posted it some time ago.
Psychology: Because they hibernate, bears can symbolize cycles; birth, death, or awakening. It can be that it is time for one to awaken into
activity or hibernate to renew your energy. Bears also represent mothering, the archetype of the Great Bear. Greek mythology the bear is associated
with Artemis (Roman - Diana), goddess of the moon and woods (fertility and the unconscious). Bears have magical and protective qualities. Remember
the Norsemen wore bearskin shirts and were fearless- also known as the "bearsarks" because of their attire.
Dream analysis will tell you that when an animal talks to you - listen. It
has words of wisdom. Animals represent some aspect of ourselves especially
instinctual/biological. According to Jung the more fierce an animal the deeper the layers of the unconscious. A talking animal is an archetype for
the Self.
Animals can also represent incredibly strong, active cosmic forces. Taming an animal refers to the desire of concern - to tame one's own instincts or
subconscious.
Hope this helps. Love dor
snip>I'm fascinated though. You write about dreaming of an "encounter with a polar bear..." Coincidentally I dreamt of a polar bear two nights ago.
At first I was frighted of the creature (beautiful, snow white). then I overcame my fear and pet his wonderful fur. He was quite tame!
> >Any dream interpreters out there??
> >Love, Hillary
> >
>
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