1998/03/28 08:34
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #240
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 240
Today's Topics:
Re: chalta hai (fwd) [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Re: chalta hai (fwd) [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Re: Subject: Re: Being Ordinary [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Desire... [ "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsru ]
Re: chalta hai [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Re: (no subject) [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Re: (no subject) [ Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iis ]
Re: ? [ E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net> ]
Re: Contact [ E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net> ]
Re: undying love [ melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu ]
sending someone to the buddhists.... [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
whatcha gunna do? [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
re: Desire... [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
Re: chalta hai [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Why are we here? [Fwd: Press Rel [ John Living <jlivingATnospamdirect.ca> ]
Fwd: Re: Upacaara samaadhi - common [ E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net> ]
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:39:24 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: chalta hai (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980328113905.31883A-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:22:36 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
Cc: kundalini-ATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai
Hi Peswani & Lobster,
Have been reading your emails about enlightenment. Would you please define
for me, as briefly as possible, "enlightenment." (Ask that others from the k-
list jump in w/their definitions, too.) Thanks!
Awaiting enlightening on enlightment,
Michele
I give below my definition and experience of enlightment.
Enlightment ......A normal child is born enlightened. Later thro senses he
collects karmas in the form of kalapas (micro-cells) and loses enlightment.
To regain enlightment one has to die and be reborn or do Suniata (thoughtless)
meditation). Love or devotion or mantra meditation will not bring in this
type of enlightment. One has to be totally free from all the collected karmas
of this life. He then comes to a stage of Sat chit annand. He is in bliss.
After attaining this enlightment one normally has to remain aware of this
peace and bliss of Sat chit annand.
By doing so he continuously cleares all the karmas he is collecting thro his
senses round the clock. If one becomes careless to this sat-chit annand
bliss he loses the enlightment.
There are signs for this type of enlightment. the person remains totally
healthy.Not an iota of sickness will be there. The person in this state
will be desireless. Even if any small desire creeps in, this bliss will pull
him over and clean him. He will have sound sleep. Instantly after getting
up from sleep he will be fully alert and in bliss. He will even never yawn or
sneeze or cough or clear his throat. he will smell of perfumes. His tongue
will have taste of nectar and his bowls (shit) will be effortless, clear and
instantaneous. he will have total control over his internal body functions.
Such and many more was my condition for forty five days or so between June 94
and mid July 94.
But I lost this enlightment, because a desire was creeping in to share this
wonderful science of enlightment with friends and colleagues. And one day I
sat for this awareness suniata meditation with detrmination to reach the
source of this desire.
I refused this bliss of sat chit annand and went deeper into meditation to
end once for all this small desire creeping in again and again, so that I
can end this desire once for all .
But the result was disasterous. There was a sudden inflow of energy from
heart centre. More effort I was putting to clear this energy, more was coming
in from the heart. For months I fought back to reach this state of bliss
sat chit annand. But everyday I was losing ground.
At this stage I changed the tactics and went to Pragya(Prajana as per Patanjali)
meditation to get the answers to mess i was in.
And a new door opened to WISDOM of Buddhic plane. Inner voice gave me replies in
the form of WISDOM that this is the path of Bhodhisattva.
When I protested I was given the WISDOM that I do not exist, this is an
illusion and this pain is not of I or mine.
I was also given the WISDOM of the purpose of this Universe, and the WISDOM
OF UNITY of all life.
I got the experience of higher life of Bodhisattva and the experience of
illusion of space and time.
Every day my sesnses and sleep collect small ego of desires, likes and
dislikes, and every day this WISDOM prevails over it. WISDOM is growing
stronger and stronger while small ego is getting weaker and weaker.
shahanshah
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:41:46 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: chalta hai (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980328114129.31883B-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:13:56 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.vsnl.net.in
Subject: Re: chalta hai
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Dear Peswani,
That conversion is unceasing and the mystery of the universe.
shahanshah....For me there is no mystery. Initially my lower mind refused to
accept Boddhisattvahood. I felt this path too difficult, painful and
lengthy. I was envious of the path of love and devotion and bliss.
But that was not my seed. WISDOM entered in the gaps of suniata as first
step and all my mysteries were answered one by one. I was explained the
purpose of this Universe, and the method adopted by intelligent energy
Now this WISDOM is Me,ME,Me in each and every kalapa (cell) of my body.
Jerry....
You refer to a witness of all this. Have you handed the pain to that
witness?
You refer to Boddhisattva, kalapa, solar world, journey, karma, wisdom,
Ninth Boddhisattva. What would happen if all that was handed over to the
Witness? Are you attached to those things?
shahanshah.......This whole process of suniata meditation is Witness process.
All the above matters are Witness generated. By being witness pain has been
washing away and new pain enters every night. But by being witness WISDOM
has been strengthening. May be this WISDOM will also wash away after some
further growth.
Jerry......
There is Enlightenment. There is return to or rebuilding of the "world."
There is the process of all-that-is "becoming" Enlightenment. It is
ultimate simplicity. What else can one do but live the ordinary life?
Lobster made a comment about you telling your experiences within
Buddhist new groups or forums. He said they'd tear you to pieces. He's
right. But it's a great test. It'll test whether you adhere to your
knowledge.
shahanshah......
For last four years I have been testing myself thro outside sources
as well inside sources, and any further tests are also welcome from Bhuddist
groups. Dear lobster please send the forum address.
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:54:50 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Being Ordinary
Message-ID: <1321076006-44209710ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jan wrote:
>The four pretty
>women with obvious intentions that cornered me not long ago somewhere in
>Africa had a different opinion - but thatís a different story altogether .
Yes, please. Tell us that story!
listening,
amckeon
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:22:45 -0600
From: "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsrule.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Desire...
Message-ID: <351CA541.290BATnospammacsrule.com>
I have been seeking this kind of enlightenment. I wish to have no
desire. However, at the same time, I have not only strong desire, but
also strong ambition. I was raised, as most in the American culture,
that doing is more important than being. I have dreams and desires. They
mostly revolve around "causes" that I currently feel strongly about. It
is hard to achieve this while doing has any importance.
I have a desire to become a well known Macintosh evangelist, who engages
in countless activities to help raise the consciousness of those in the
computing industry that Macintosh is one of the best computer platforms
available. I know that in terms of truth this is not important, but I
still feel that it is.
I have a desire to start my own digital video production company and
produce media materials and programs that pertain to Truth. I would like
to infiltrate Mass Media (TV & Hollywood) with productions and programs
that bring Truth principles and examples of people living in Truth into
the mainstream culture.
I have a desire to complete my research and development of a Free energy
device that will put an end to fossil fuel consumption overnight and
equalize all of the economies of the world.
All of these desires are based on my Ego telling me that those "causes"
are important, and that I am the only one that can do them justice. My
upbringing makes it difficult to just accept that there really is no
doing in this world that is important, and that the only thing that
matters is the attainment of Enlightenment that brings my mind in tune
with One Mind.
My ego tells me that in order to satiate these desires, I have to
fulfill them. My ego tells me that if I don't achieve them, then those
"causes" will fall apart and die.
I know my ego is the antagonist of Truth, but it is difficult giving up
desire all together.
I could sure use some help...
-------------------
I give below my definition and experience of enlightment. Enlightment
......A normal child is born enlightened. Later thro senses he collects
karmas in the form of kalapas (micro-cells) and loses enlightment. To
regain enlightment one has to die and be reborn or do Suniata
(thoughtless) meditation). Love or devotion or mantra meditation will
not bring in this type of enlightment. One has to be totally free from
all the collected karmas of this life. He then comes to a stage of Sat
chit annand. He is in bliss. After attaining this enlightment one
normally has to remain aware of this peace and bliss of Sat chit annand.
By doing so he continuously cleares all the karmas he is collecting thro
his senses round the clock. If one becomes careless to this sat-chit
annand bliss he loses the enlightment. There are signs for this type of
enlightment. the person remains totally healthy.Not an iota of sickness
will be there. The person in this state will be desireless. Even if any
small desire creeps in, this bliss will pull him over and clean him. He
will have sound sleep. Instantly after getting up from sleep he will be
fully alert and in bliss. He will even never yawn or sneeze or cough or
clear his throat. he will smell of perfumes. His tongue will have taste
of nectar and his bowls (shit) will be effortless, clear and
instantaneous. he will have total control over his internal body
functions.
Such and many more was my condition for forty five days or so between
June 94 and mid July 94. But I lost this enlightment, because a desire
was creeping in to share this wonderful science of enlightment with
friends and colleagues. And one day I sat for this awareness suniata
meditation with detrmination to reach the source of this desire. I
refused this bliss of sat chit annand and went deeper into meditation to
end once for all this small desire creeping in again and again, so that
I can end this desire once for all. But the result was disasterous.
There was a sudden inflow of energy from heart centre. More effort I was
putting to clear this energy, more was coming in from the heart. For
months I fought back to reach this state of bliss sat chit annand. But
everyday I was losing ground. At this stage I changed the tactics and
went to Pragya(Prajana as per Patanjali) meditation to get the answers
to mess i was in. And a new door opened to WISDOM of Buddhic plane.
Inner voice gave me replies in the form of WISDOM that this is the path
of Bhodhisattva. When I protested I was given the WISDOM that I do not
exist, this is an illusion and this pain is not of I or mine. I was also
given the WISDOM of the purpose of this Universe, and the WISDOM OF
UNITY of all life. I got the experience of higher life of Bodhisattva
and the experience of illusion of space and time. Every day my sesnses
and sleep collect small ego of desires, likes and dislikes, and every
day this WISDOM prevails over it. WISDOM is growing stronger and
stronger while small ego is getting weaker and weaker.
shahanshah
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:23:42 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: Gloria Lee <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980328142107.21402B-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Peswani,
If you are this unique..why not "pray to Myself" ??? You do not seem to
believe anyone else can help you, anyway. It must feel terrible to be so
alone with all that ego energy. Seriously.. you need friends, no matter
how you may regard their inability to understand you...I would sincerely
suggest that you find some *other basis* ( other than being
understood)...to experience that you are not so alone. Your soul may
need to be going thru whatever this IS you are experiencing, but your
dreams say you need to put on your shoes and walk among us, anyway. You
are missing CONNECTION..(with all the train dreams..remember??)
Maybe we can find some subject other than *enlightenment* that we can
share to talk about?? Sometime, please do tell us about your family and
your other interests. I, for one, would like to know you more.
With sincere love and concern,
Glo Lee
______________________
shahanshah......
I am alone, yet am never lonely. I have a big family. My mother 85 plus
wants me always near her. She feels she is safe in my presence. Normally I
used to travel a lot. Since last four years It has become difficult to
leave her for more than 2 to 3 days. My wife plus 60 has chronic back
pain, but is very practical and down to earth woman. It is her job to beat
me up and bring me down to the earth if I try to fly too high with my
Bhodhisattvahood. She alone is more capable in this job than all of the
list members here. I have son, he manages the factories (the ones I used
to own and now he is in-charge). he is fighting for his divorce with his
wife. He wants to own this world, but wonders why this world is not
falling down to his line of RULING. I have three married daughters with
their childern. All the year round some of them are here for company. Our
three son-in-laws are truely in love with us. They feel this house gives
them peace and happiness and holidays are worth it. On an average each
daugter and family visits us 5 to 6 times a year except for one who lives
abroad. she visits twice a year. This year we expect her to spend atleast
one month or more with us. I spend 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in
the evening with very intimate friends. they have been observing some
changes in me since last four years. They sometimes thrash me and at other
times love me on my elightments, bhoddhisatvahood. This group of friends
have expanded (now 6)since last two years due to variey of subjects that
we discuss, from politics, social life, various Gurus, and our
experiences. They are divided in their opinion as to my being
a bhoddisattva. But they know something is on special with me.
I enjoy playing chess with my wife and son-in-laws for atleast two hours a
day and am mostly a winner.
prior to June 92, I was a wreck in my health. Today I am in pink of my health.
I enjoy my food. I was a vegetarien for last six years, but since last 2 months
I am no more vegetarian. I have set myself free.
I spend one to two hours with this list.
I meditate for 3 to 4 hours a day in the early mornings and throughout the day.
I spend occasional hour or so to go thro the family finances to keep them
healthy and pay my proper taxes to goverment.
I watch tv for one or so hours a day.
I feel 24 hours are short for a day.
IN MY BHODDHISATTVAHOOD AND PAIN I AM ALONE NOT OTHERWISE.
HOW COME I HAVE CREATED SO DIFFERENT IMAGE OF MINE ON THIS LIST.
SHAHANSHAH
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:25:42 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
Cc: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980328142400.21402C-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
DAN...
When you first wrote about being enlightened. I did not
wonder either way whether you were enlightened or not. My
suspicion was that you had an epiphany not enlightenment,
because true enlightenment does not receed after 45 days.
SHAHANSHAH...WHAT IS ENLIGHTMENT IN YOUR DEFINITION. AND IF
YOU HAD NO EXPERIENCE OF ENLIGHTMENT PLEASE SHUT UP. :))))))
DAN......However, this posting leaves me no doubt. An
enlightened person does not care about loneliness. An
enlightened person has no trouble finding the same, because
even among unenlightened people the enlightened person can
commune with the potential for enlightenment within all
beings. An enlightened person has no ego. An enlightened
person does not worry that people don't understand them. An
enlightened person can make people understand.
SHAHANSHAH....ENLIGHTMENT IS AN EXPERIENCE. OTHEWISE YOUR ALL
ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE CORRECT
DAN.......You are alone and lonely because you have chosen this.
You suffer because of your ego. You suffer because of your
delusions. Your greatest delusion is that your someone
special, a person around whom the universe revolves. The
universe will keep chugging along with or without you Mr.
Peshwani. There was a time before your birth, a time before
your 'enlightenment,' all still moved along.
SHAHANSHAH...I AM NOT LONELY NOR DELUSIONED, NOR AM I SUFFERING IN MY NORMAL
LIFE BUT I AM SPECIAL AND LONELY IN MY BHODDHISATTVAHOOD . i LEFT MY
ENLIGHTMENT WAY BEHIND.
DAN...... Your quest to encompass all with your ego has created
your barrier to enlightened masters. You've probably
encountered a hundred masters that could have helped you on
your way. Each of them were sad that they could not help
you because you had created a barrier where you thought you
needed no help. If you believe you can learn from others
you will learn.
CHALTA HAI.........SHAHANSHAH
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:04:22 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Cc: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>,
Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980328145949.6700A-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Peswani,
What made you to go in search for saints in
Himalayas? Was it know what was happening to you or to
see that noone is like you.
Love,
anurag
> DAN...... Your quest to encompass all with your ego has created
> your barrier to enlightened masters. You've probably
> encountered a hundred masters that could have helped you on
> your way. Each of them were sad that they could not help
> you because you had created a barrier where you thought you
> needed no help. If you believe you can learn from others
> you will learn.
>
> CHALTA HAI.........SHAHANSHAH
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 17:11:23 GMT
From: E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net>
To: kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: ?
Message-Id: <970327171123.n0003027.lobsterATnospammail.clara.net>
on 27 Mar 98, Harsha1MTM wrote...
>In a message dated 98-03-27 10:44:48 EST, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu writes:
>
><< Hey guys,
>
> Why do you pick on poor Peswani so much? It's like shooting fish in a
> barrel. >>
>
>Harsha: I do because I love him.
Lobster Love fish
Lobster
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 05:28:02 GMT
From: E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net>
To: kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Contact
Message-Id: <970327052802.n0002971.lobsterATnospammail.clara.net>
on 27 Mar 98, Daniel James Giszczak wrote...
> Have I met anyone from this list, say earlier this year?
> Dan
It is quite possible that you met me later this year. Earlier this year I was in
the future. Next week I am likely to be here, by the end of the year I could be
anywhere . . .
Lobster
(helpful as ever)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:29:45 -0500
From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: undying love
Message-Id: <l03130300b142aa83daf5ATnospam[198.28.38.107]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Johnwrote:
> I returned to my back yard, to find a 'female form' waiting
>for me. Knowing the form to be female was a feeling, not an
>observation..the only sembalence to human was the outline, inside the
>outline was a swirling mixture of texture and color
I love this thread. The first time I ever saw "him" outside of dreams was
in a deep meditation on plants. I intended to look for plants with certain
qualities and decended a very long escalator to get to a deep state. At the
bottom of the escalator I looked around at the landscape and started
examining some little plants at my feet. I glanced up and was shocked
beyond words to see this man standing there staring at me. It suprised me
so much I popped right out of meditation and sat there on the bed
wondedring what the hell just happened! I find this incredibly funny now ...
--Liz
The web site you seek
cannot be located but
endless others exist
---- Joy Rothke from Haiku
Error Message competition at Salon
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:07:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: sending someone to the buddhists....
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980328080609.15882B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
we dont bite!
may all beings find liberation from suffering and true happiness :)
--some goofball buddhist wannabe on the Kundalini-l list
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:19:18 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: whatcha gunna do?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980328080752.15882C-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You got feets right?
So walk!
You got mouth right?
So Talk!
so howcome you keep
walking with Desire?
Desire keeps breaking
your feets!
Desire wants to string
one up by the feets
so he can laugh
at you and
make your mouth
make crying sounds.
So whatcha gunna do?
well, for me...
Even tho for aeons
i've perfected
the art of
living miserably
>From this day on
i'm just gunna
Say No
to the old habits
that
keep
breaking
my feets.
What you gunna do?
--janpa
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:30:41 -0600 (CST)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: re: Desire...
Message-Id: <199803281430.IAA24924ATnospamdfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com>
Who knows, Mark, maybe if you let the ego soften and drift into the
background, God can better use you to tackle those very issues you
mentioned! I don't believe God lets a willing vessel go to waste, even
if we can't quite see how we're being used. Holly
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:33:58 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in, samyanaATnospamhotmail.com
Cc: anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai
Message-ID: <8dca3335.351d0a58ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-28 03:44:38 EST, peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in writes:
<< I enjoy playing chess with my wife and son-in-laws for atleast two hours a
day and am mostly a winner. >>
Dear Peshwani: I was playing master strength chess in my late teens. Beat
Grandmaster Walter Browne once when he gave a simultaneous exhibition at our
college. Used to pull a lot of all nighters with my college friends when I was
17 playing blindfold chess and sometimes demonstrating yoga postures. It was
during those days that this totally intense buzzing started at night during
sleep. I started experiencing an ever tightening band around my temples and
the forehead. I had no idea at the time what was in store for me. One day my
life changed forever........Harsha
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:48:26 -0700
From: John Living <jlivingATnospamdirect.ca>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Why are we here? [Fwd: Press Release: The Great Experiment]
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980328134826.1a2776f8ATnospamdirect.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:14 PM 3/27/98, you wrote:
> So I ask you all, why are we on this planet?
Gosh ! A VERY easy question - I thought ALL of us knew that !
'To pay income tax.'
John
J.M.Living, P.Eng., A wise old owl lived in an oak;
2731 West 11th.Avenue, the more he saw, the less he spoke;
Vancouver, B.C., the less he spoke, the more he heard;
Canada V6K 2L8 he was definitely not a political bird !
Vox & Fax (604) 737-7456
"The Truth is out there !" - and YOU can find it by Dowsing !
Dowsers * Questers / Canada: "http://users.uniserve.com/~questers/"
Learn to use a Pendulum: "http://mypage.direct.ca/j/jliving/penlearn.htm"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 23:48:39 GMT
From: E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net>
To: kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Upacaara samaadhi - common beliefs
Message-Id: <970327234839.n0003056.lobsterATnospammail.clara.net>
this is a forwarded message from the Insight forum
Hello Petr
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Petr Pavlik wrote:
> There is a common belief that stopping the mind brings liberation. It comes
from
> Yoga, and it is probably much older than Buddhism. Many meditators believe it
> (maybe not you).
You are right I do not subscribe to this view. To make any sense of the
statement that the mind is stopped you have give a meaningful definition
of mind. To me the mind is stopped only when you are dead but it may
be in hibernation during sleep. Certainly not in meditation.
> I use "enlightenment" and "liberation" for two different stages of progress.
To
> be enlightened means that for at least some short time we dwelt in a state
> without attachments. To be liberated means that we have no defilement at all.
> This is another common belief by many Gurus of different traditions that after
> their temporary enlightenment they claim that they are liberated forever (see
> the Trungpa thread in this list).
To me enlightenment (sambodhi) is an irreversible thing. There is no such
thing as temporary enlightenment. Liberation is generally a synonym for
enlightenment and is not an independent concept in itself.
Kind Regards,
Victor
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.