1998/03/04 09:58
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #169
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 169
Today's Topics: Re: To be or not to be [ "Susan Carlson" ]
To val [ Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: To be or not to be Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear John,
You write:
I am looking for anybody who has experienced seizure episodes whose
precursor is early childhood sexual abuse.
Snip
For what its worth (because I am not quite sure it is related). I have been violated sexually,emotionally and physically as a child. I also
have seizure type episodes but they came about after my k awakening.
The seizure like episodes are not frequent and are only activated when Shakti is flowing thru me is of incredible intensity. Sometimes I lose
consciousness, stop breathing, my body arched and trembling. I would consider this a type of kriya.
When I am conscious during these times sometimes I am out of body,
sometimes I am not, sometimes I have 360 degree vision that I can only describe as holographic,seeing the lotus above my head and all worlds at
the same time, knowing the thoughts of people around me. It has never hurt me and the sensation is one of fire and electricity mixed with a
joy that eminates from the marrow of my bones.
As the K has risen in me it has definately augmented and accelerated my healing from my childhood stuff.
I can tell you from experience that working with people who are k aware
*and* healers (and not necessarily professional healers) facilitated the healings of my first and second chakras. But I spent at least 5 years of
my life doing serious interior work also...such as anger and forgiveness. Forgiveness, I found for me, eventually came down to the
forgiving of my self for what happened and the results of it. I was filled with shame, blame and guilt and so much RAGE.
It was rough going at first but just moving forward is an important
step. And finding someone compassionate to work with is a vital step. Some, rare people can do this on their own. I could not. In fact,
admitting that I couldnt, that I needed other people to heal the most intimate and hidden parts of me was very hard and yet it was a key
element to my accelerated healing. Learning to trust myself and trust others was a basic component of lower chakra healing for me.
Much love to you and your partner,
Susan
PS...working with Shakti, I would hold in my heart the knowingness that no center is so damaged that it can not be healed and actually can
flourish and bloom and become a blessing to self and others.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:20:01 +0100
From: Danijel Turina To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: background noise Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:14 1998.03.03 -0500, Am wrote: >Danijel,
>> >>May I ask a simple, straightforward, question?
>> >>Why are you so angry? And at whom?
>> >>Bob
> >
>Dear Bob, >
>for whatever it's worth, i at least do not perceive Danijel as angry, >rather, I would say, HIGHLY AMUSED.
I love you!!! :))))) Finally! :))) It is so ...predictable... seeing those
nice fluffy folks praying for my poor misguided soul, visualizing me as pathetic angry creature, asking nice mr. God up there to give me light.
:)))))))) ROTFLMTO :))))))) Actually, last night I was wondering what was it - I actually felt
different, it weren't my emotions, and it wasn't mirrored - I couldn't do anything about it because I didn't create it or maintain it. Then, with
loving help, it became clear! It were those caring prayers for me, poor hungry frustrated-by-war-and-poverty Croatian, nice pet, but sooo solar
plexus centered, so closed for God... that it actually blocked my crown nadis, locked me in the astral, gave me a headache, and was stimulating
dirty yellowish/green energy from my system. When I figured out what our dear caring Gloria and her heartzen pets were doing, I filtered it out and
suddenly I could breathe! My crown opened again, heaviness was gone, no mani-pura energy anymore, and all the imposed blocks and visualizations
dissolved. Then I unsubscribed myself from the heartzen list just to make sure I don't have any more links to that, had to blow out some
victimization stuff from that experience and now I feel great again, I'm back to normal.
So please folks, don't pray for me, don't pray for anyone, learn to accept people and everyone will be much better off. You just create the problems,
you don't fix them. See there is no problem and there will be nothing to fix or pray for, because it is perfection and clarity all over. See things
as beauty and you won't have to fix them. See people as enlightened and beautiful, not as ugly and pathetic so you could pray for God's help to
them. You place that help in the distant future and you place the ugly stuff in the present - and the future never happens, only now happens. So
you create now. That's what I tell my students: never visualize anyone! It is astral violence! By visualizing someone you create him, you transform
his astral tissue, his thoughts and feelings, to fit your perceptions. Don't ever do that! The thing to do is to call a person, open yourself and
observe. Don't impose, because thoughts are actions here, they are like surgical instruments that cut tissue. Don't play with that!
view a: you are beautiful view b: you are ugly, but you can be helped, let me help you get beautiful
View b creates ugliness, view a actualizes beauty. Enough said.
I love you!
----- E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377 Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:02:48 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Reborn Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thought you might like this,
Jack
KEEPING THE CLICHE
You picked a loser spot to be born again!
In what womb were you doomed to expand?
Stupid zit, you couldn't be squeezed out Over there? where the sun, cloud-shover,
Casually dines on a slice of sidewalk Iced with chalk designs and dope ropes
I've seen mongrels squat in better spots,
And hijacked leopards with less regret Punctuating their zoological sentences:
The back of a taxi is just plain slack!, With a seat whose talent actually thins
Into a pornographic film. A rebirth (Without an obstetrician at the helm)
A good rebirth should be exotically gradual--
A bottled pace to fully replace your old self.
Tell me something, pubic scum, did it hurt? Having your poor cord cut by a slammed door
Delivered by a driver who speaks in a fluid But incomprehensible sponge, that wrung out
Will wipe up your shivers with a solid pout.
-- James Smolens
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 98 13:55:16 UT From: "Peter Sutphen"
To: "Afperry" , richardATnospamskydancer.com Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus Message-Id:
Dear Allan,
Thanks for the nice post regarding Gurus. It is rather strange isn't it? People often react to the "corruption" of their Guru through denial,
minimization, rationalization or just chucking him out and finding another one and doing the same thing with a new Guru! The problem with my experience with
Gurus and I'm sure with most others is the experiences one has through the practice of their techniques and the experiences in their presence. It
quickly becomes apparent that you are not in the presence of some con man! My own experiences are with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Over the years MMY has
done things that make no sense to me and grossly violate my own ethics. The TM Movement is even worse at times! They have royally screwed people over.
Yet my personal experiences with him and my over 25 year practice of his techniques (TM, TM-Sidhi Program, Age of Enlightenment Techniques,many
advanced meditation techniques, etc.) have made it abundantly clear to me that he is an "authentic" Guru. Even his extraordinary, enlightened disciple, Shri
Shri Ravi Shankar (Punditji) has expressed puzzlement over MMY's behavior. Yet MMY is his Guru! Many of my fellow TMer's over the years have fallen by
the way side and viciously attack MMY and the TM Movement (see the newsgroup: alt.meditation.transcendental) I understand why they do this. But when they
say MMY is an absolute fraud, I pause and realize no, he is not. If I did not have the experiences I have had, it would be easy to agree with them. But it
is the experiences that make me realize that he is not what they claim. I can't wait until the day I can understand this! It is some sort of
extraordinary gift for us. But man o' man, what ugly wrapping paper! -Peter
----------
From: Afperry Sent: Monday, March 02, 1998 11:43 AM
To: richardATnospamskydancer.com Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus
Dear Richard, I was most interested in your posting; this is a difficult area where emotions
and egos are constantly muddying the already turbulent waters!
IMHO, the majority of 'gurus' in this world are more like businessmen/women than teachers. I am regularly appalled by the pure commercialism of much that
passes for spirituality, especially here in the West, and I have serious doubts about the private motivation of many professed gurus - even though they
may have attained a considerable spiritual height (God and mammon do not appear to be mutually exclusive until the final straight!). However it is
important not to throw away the baby with the bath water........................ :-)
I am fascinated by the evidence that even from the highest spiritual level,
one can fall - and fall very badly. The recent case of Swami Premananda in Tamil Nadu is particularly disturbing: openly recognised as one of the great
living gurus of India, and one of the very few who still produces materialised lingams from inside him on the night of Mahashivaratri (i.e. not just an
acquired siddhi), Premananda is currently serving life imprisonment for the rape of several of his female disciples and for being an accessory to murder.
How is this possible? And the fact that it obviously is possible raises the awkward question "After all my spiritual efforts, could it still happen to
me?". The Indian epics are full of stories about spiritually-advanced souls who fell at the final hurdle, and what about dear old Lucifer
himself..................
During my life, I have been blessed with close contact with a number of gurus, male and female, mainly Indian or Sri Lankan but one American. All
these have been beyond reproach as regards their individual life-styles, even though I have not always agreed with everything they say and do, but several
striking similarities can be clearly seen in those I have met who are God- Realised (which may not all be apparent in those who are just spiritually-
advanced):
1. They actually live their message, there is no inconsistency at any level that I am aware of. They teach love and service and they live love and
service. 2. None of them charges money for access to them (even though their attendant
organisations can often be subtly commercial), surviving on donations, etc. The general feel has always been "Mother Lakshmi will provide", and She does.
3. None has ever tried to recruit disciples or to expand his/her organisation by manipulating devotees. Each has shown by example that the sole
consideration is the spiritual advancement of the individual and, furthermore, that their function as an external guru is simply to lead the disciple to
their inner guru, our God source within, and to a point where the disciple can rely totally on that and no longer needs the external figure. The real guru
frees, he does not bind. 4. The possession of siddhis can never be a guideline, but all God-Realised
teachers will have power/shakti. You will feel it in their presence, in their words, their writings and around everything to do with them. This power is
transformative, purging, purifying, cleansing and, often, churning to the very core. And the teachers themselves will never claim it is their power - only
that they are instruments of God, bringing that shakti to help others. Humility and honesty are very clear Divine traits.
5. All the God-Realised teachers I have been involved with saw God equally in all religions and cultures, and would not even classify themselves as
necessarily Hindu. They teach universality because that is what they have become. There can be no sectarianism at this level, nor any dogma.
6. Finally, a tree is known by its fruits. In assessing the worth of any spiritual teacher, I have found the finest method is to bypass the figurehead,
who may be very charismatic, and look closely at those around him/her. Do you like what you see or not? Fawning acolytes or earnest sadhakas, etc. etc.?
Discrimination is a critical faculty that we all need to develop and all gurus
can help us to do that, whether Rajneesh, Sai Baba or Da Free John. I recall the words of Mabel Collins earlier this century: "No man is your enemy, no man
is your friend. All alike are your teachers". We should do well to remember that!
With blessings,
Alan Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:09:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Forum Question Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
At 14:03 03/03/98 PST, John Heinen wrote: >Who on this list would describe themself as an eclectic in the fields of
>Natural Philosophy, the Mysteries or Metaphysics?
um i dunno
i'm basically a Mahayana Buddhist. Which means i do practise meditation. Most of that is in the form of Vajrayana (Tibetan) practises.
maitri,
--janpa
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:40:23 -0600 From: jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: help?/MAYBE..Cara
Message-Id:
Hi, Gloria & all,
>Thanks for saying this.. the self-responsibility.. and free-will is what
>I somehow was NOt hearing from the earlier post...sorry for getting so >silly with my reaction..you were nice to answer me after I was so
>sarcastic..I just really have no clue about astrology, so it sounds to >me like the stars are taking over ..so, I react very defensively...
Lots of people don't know what astrology really is--they see the newspaper
columns, and think that's what it's about. It's actually very complex. In fact, I wish I could hang around for several lifetimes to learn it better
(and keep the memories--otherwise I'd be starting from scratch again!). Every time I think I've really learned my stuff, I find out there are more
pieces to the puzzle, more things to discover. And I've been at this for over 30 years. :)
I always say a skeptical approach is a healthy one, so you're right on
track. Maybe you'd like to explore the subject a bit more? If so, drop me an email, and I can suggest some terrific books.
Jeanne
==-* My stars! Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:37:55 -0500
From: Harsh Luthar To: Peter Sutphen
CC: Afperry , richardATnospamskydancer.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus
Message-ID:
Harsha writes: Although the word Guru refers to a fully Enlightened being, an overwhelming majority of Gurus who teach
(99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% to be precise!) simply are advanced students of yoga and meditation. By advanced students I mean those who have
experienced many different types of Samadhis, (usually through the arousal of Kundalini Shakti), and are familiar with Supermind or Superconscious states.. All of
this is possible through spiritual practice for some time, self-discipline and suppression of the vasanas. However, the spiritual experience that is acquired
through suppression, although very useful, bursts like a bubble unless the underlying latent tendencies lose force. People say many Gurus are a fraud. Well
yes. Many are! They are simply individuals who find themselves in a position of power and sometimes abuse it. Does it mean that the teaching transmitted by them
which comes from authentic traditions has no value. No it does not. I mentioned this once earlier in a response to Peg. The best protection a spiritual aspirant has is
his or her own purity, sincerity and maturity. Allan mentioned a Swami who was producing lingams and is now in jail on various charges. It is my belief and firm
conviction that spiritual aspirants who are attracted to such things in Yogis are not serious to the very depth of their being and do not yet have the maturity
required to Recognize the Truth inherent in their own Being. It does not mean they will stay that way. At one time or another, due to good merit, a person who has
truly aspired will hear the Truth. The Truth is in You and the Truth is You. Such a person will believe that and be set on the path........Harsha.
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:34:00 -0700
From: Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE To: HeartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, Gloria Greco
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: To val
Message-Id:
Dear Val
Here's a little poem I enjoy when I'm feeling down. It's called
DESIDERATA.
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. as far as possible without surrender, be on good
terms with all persons. speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they, too, have their
story
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and
bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons that yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real
possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not
blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. neither be
cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the
things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears
are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a
right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, an
whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
Max Ehrmann - American poet and dramatist (1872-1945)
Hope you enjoyed it. Love and Light Trent.
---------- From: Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:32:00 -0700 From: Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, valeriec Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: RE: HRTZEN: brown ceramic heart Message-Id:
Dear Val
Here's a little poem I enjoy when I'm feeling down. It's called DESIDERATA.
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there
may be in silence. as far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. speak your truth quietly and clearly; and
listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they, too, have their story
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the
spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons that
yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your
business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden
misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a
child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the
universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, an whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life
keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful
world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
Max Ehrmann - American poet and dramatist (1872-1945)
Hope you enjoyed it. Love and Light Trent.
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:26:23 -0600 From: jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus
Message-Id:
>People say many Gurus are a fraud. Well
>yes. Many are! They are simply individuals who find themselves in a position of >power and sometimes abuse it. Does it mean that the teaching transmitted
by them >which comes from authentic traditions has no value. No it does not.
Thank you for saying this, Harsha! That's my feeling exactly. Could I cite
an example? Steve Martin made a movie a few years back, called "Leap of Faith." It was about this huckster of a traveling "evangelist," and it
actually exposed quite a lot of the actual practices of such people. A very slick fellow, he'd stage "miracles" of healing (it was even on his tour
buses: "MIRACLES AND WONDERS") routinely. Well, the clincher of the story came when, towards the end of the movie, this old self-admitted fraud
actually DID bring a miracle, a genuine one, the real deal. Scared him to death, and he left his "ministry." The message I got from this is: you can
learn and grow from anyone, even a scam artist with all the trappings, if you're open to it.
Or from a so-called cult. (My definition of a cult: someone else's
religion.) I was involved with a cult-like group in the 70's, and it's where I received shaktipat. I'll love them forever for it, and I honor them
for this wonderful gift--but it wouldn't have been healthy for me to stay. I knew that shortly after the initiation; it was clear as fine crystal: I
had to leave.
Gurus or teachers are just people who assist others on the path, helping them remember what we all--or most of us anyway--forget. Like the rest of
us, they're "doing Earth"--they're humans too--while giving others a hand-up. No doubt, as they teach and help, they're also learning too,
making the student as much of a guru as their holinesses themselves.
Maybe one of our lessons is not to get caught up in the blame game, to learn compassion for all of our fellow travelers on the path. It's just a trap,
you know, this whole "how could he/she do something so vile" when we can't begin to know the how or the why of it.
Once, in one of my meditations when I has having a hard time with that
particular sticky wicket, it came to me that truly, there is no evil as we think of it; that, in fact, one of the roughest jobs in the universe is to
come into a body on Earth and teach people lessons of villainy, to help them grow through pain and suffering--and to learn to transcend these. The real
evil comes when we don't accept our own part in our troubles, when we don't realize that, in fact, the "villain" is also in us, IS us even.
I think we all draw the teacher we need. If we've gotten a "bad" one,
perhaps it's time to pause and reflect on what we might learn from this experience, what might be in our hearts that attracted us to such a teacher.
Once we've learned the lesson, we can move on...
Jeanne ==-* My stars!
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:36:10 -0000 From: "Jan Barendrecht"
To: Subject: RE: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BD4783.41CD3FA0"
It is very unlikely that there are fully enlightened Gurus among us. Because it means that K. has finished its job and has" disappeared into the Void". One of the secondary effects is that all senses that can cause suffering (touch, taste, smell) aren´t functioning anymore. For instance, the "urge to breathe" is dead. Because of the impossibility to act under the influence of desire/senses, such a Guru is called perfect. With regards to knowledge, there need not be any difference with "lesser" Gurus. As even persons with an active K. during 40 or more years do not realize this state, it is unlikely that anyone can achieve this anymore. The "final state" can also be described as continuous Nirvikalpa Samadhi while being conscious of the phenomenal world etc. at the same time. It is the rarest of the rarest.
Jan
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda135"
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:49:10 GMT From: rtrevATnospamredsuspenders.com (Bob Trevithick)
To: "Jan Barendrecht" Cc:
Subject: Re: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:36:10 -0000, you wrote:
>It is very unlikely that there are fully enlightened Gurus among us. Because it means that K. has finished its job and has" disappeared into the Void".
I'm new to this, so please excuse what's no doubt a naive question.. but I understood that the Bodhisattva (sp?) tradition was that such
beings could, and often did, choose to stay in touch with physical reality so they could help out the rest of us..?
Wouldn't these folks be qualified to be called "fully enlightened
gurus"?
Thanks, Bob
-- Bob Trevithick
rtrevATnospamredsuspenders.com
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