1998/01/21 13:53
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #71
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 71
Today's Topics:
Age of Aquarius Neptune etc . [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Tying Rocks to Clouds [ PEGLUMPKIN <PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com> ]
Meditations.... [ Ray Morel <r.morelATnospamsympatico.ca> ]
Ok i'm a chicken.... [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: Age of Aquarius Neptune/also phy [ RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Dilbert [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re: meditations [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re: meditations [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:10:09 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Age of Aquarius Neptune etc .
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980121080850.3007N-110000ATnospamuhunix1>
Content-Type: MULTIPART/DIGEST; BOUNDARY=----------------------------
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980121080850.3007OATnospamuhunix1>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:29:47 EST
From: PEGLUMPKIN <PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Tying Rocks to Clouds
Message-ID: <3604a162.34c63e9dATnospamaol.com>
I would like to recommend an addition to the kundalini bibliography. It is a
book called TYING ROCKS TO CLOUDS, Meetings and Conversations with Wise and
Spiritual People, by William Elliott, ISBN 0-8356-0708-9, Quest Books. The
author was an aide in a mental hospital who decided he would write letters to
spiritual leaders or notables around the world and ask for interviews. Of
course he got shot down in many cases, but 20 people agreed to interviews.
Elliot would work until he had enough money for a trip, and then he would
travel to each person for the interview. The book is inspirational not only
for the insights offered by the interviewees, but for the many insights gained
by the author as well. He asked all the interviewees the same 24 questions,
which included many of the questions we grapple with here on this list. Do
personal relationships interfere with spiritual growth? Why is there
suffering and evil? Do all religions lead the same place? What are the
obstacles to achieving our life purpose? What is the nature of God? What is
your core practice?
Here are the people this relative "nobody" got to interview just because he
asked:
Mother Teresa
Norman Vincent Peal
H.H. the Dalai Lama
B.F. Skinner
Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
Ram Dass
Stephen Levine
Jean Houston
Albert Ellis
Harold Kushner
Frances Vaughan
Robert Schuller
Jack Kornfield
Laura Huxley
Brother David Steindl-Rast
Swami Satchidananda
Pir Vilaya Khan
Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi
Jagir Singh
Toni Packer
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:51:52 -0800
From: Ray Morel <r.morelATnospamsympatico.ca>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Meditations....
Message-ID: <34C66DF8.7282ATnospamsympatico.ca>
Hi all,
Just popping in to say that all is going well, and despite what Ann
says, I know I am not daydreaming, and I am not afraid. I am learning
more everyday, and even thoughat the beginning I did spook myself...the
mirror thing was a complete surprise, some instinct led me to the mirror
for some reason, and I think it was for a reason.
I am trusting my instinct, and my teachers, which I do have by the way,
and they are not nessesarily books or people, but they are there.
The confetti thing is how I relax,it feels good and it works...
I believe that i do have guidance and my guide (although I have not
formally been introduced, it feels more like my instinct, the same thing
that led me to the mirror) has in fact slowed me down and led me to
places and people in here who help me.
I am not "bouncing off the wall" like I did in the beginning, and I do
not feel like I am losing my marbles.
I feel like I am going on a wonderful journey. And I feel there is much
to be learned.
I am not afraid to look at the faces in the mirror, I have an
understanding of who they are now, and if they are just me, then I have
nothing to be afraid of because I am not afraid of myself.
The beginning of all this was a real shockwave, but little by little it
is coming together.
I never expected to feel the things that I can feel. Yes, I am very
much a daydreamer, always have been, but this is much different I think.
I am a beginner, I have much to learn, and I have a few friends who are
helping me along.
I am not going to let anyone plant fear seeds, I have just spent two
days getting over the mirror spook, and I know that I am safe now.
Someone is watching over me.
Thank you all who are supportive, after all, isn't this group about
helping those who want to find thier spiritual selves.
There is nothing scary about meditations, not to me because I know that
I am not the first, nor will I be the last to meditate alone.
I am not afraid of what I will see, none of it can hurt me unless I let
it or fear it.
If you allow only good things to penetrate your thoughts, how can you go
wrong?
No, I do not understand very much of this, if any...but I would like to
keep my innocence and not be afraid.
I will learn, just as you all have learned, by asking questions, and by
following the path that my higher power leads me to.
Love to you all,
Tammy
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:05:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Ok i'm a chicken....
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980120162814.4303A-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm preparing to enter a week long very intensive meditation retreat on
Feb 16th.
my problem is....i'm wondering what sleep deprivation is going to do to me
energy wise.
i'm sure i can handle this experience, since i was invited directly to
come and do it, but the thought of doing meditational practises for 21
hours a day is beginning to sort of scare me. i've done similar things in
the past, but no more than 14 hours a day.
so i thought 'Hey i'll ask the experts :)' what does prolonged meditation
combined with sleep deprivation do? add in a strict diet too. Altho after
the holidays, eating lighter food again is finally beginning to clear my
head. i never eat meat unless someone else makes me dinner, then i do so
as to not be rude, but it is very heavy-feeling and i cant help but feel
sad for the one who lost their life for dinner.
so any warnings would be appreciated.
i'm not driving anywhere afterward for a while either.
add in one temple located in the smoky mountains too....
take care!
maitri,
--janpa tsomo
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:59:38 EST
From: RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Age of Aquarius Neptune/also physical alignment w/expansion
Message-ID: <ee332017.34c6459eATnospamaol.com>
Thanks Ruth!
Yes, you're right about folks experiencing a lot of it NOW, because I am one
of them! I recognize my most recent processes described also. Very
confirming, and I thank you once again!
The conclusion (HA! As if there IS one! (-;) I have come to thus far is
written below, snipped and cut from letters to another. Maybe it'll help
others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snip> And what I've come up with (or was "given") seems to be the answer I
was searching for when writing to the list. I believe I have awakened to a
way to stay in that expansive, blissful, heart feeling without having to "go
up there" to experience it - bringing it right down to earth.
It's a matter of focus and intent. Whatever aspects of me are present or get
triggered by conversation (I am everyone - I AM THAT I AM - unity; they're ALL
there), the intent is to focus on the love and communion that is also
definitely present. Not to be in denial of any of the other aspects, but to
deal with them later by myself since I own them (the fears), and not to
project them onto others.
This is new territory for me, since I have used conflict with others to
resolve the conflict within myself. The other person has always been a mirror
for a voice within myself, and it's been helpful to work things out
expressively, giving that inner fear a voice through another - more clear
sometimes when it comes out clearly through another's mouth. I can still give
that inner fear a voice so I can work out the fear and transcend it, but in a
different way - not necessarily through others, but with a dialogue with
myself (journaling, or asking another facilitator for help when I get stuck,
etc.).
Seems that I am ready to go to the next level, to a more peaceful means of
healing. <snip>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More again:
<snip>.....had to continue the process a little further, to put pieces
together. Now that I've got more pieces put together, I can put the "whole"
into practice.
I have done a lot of soul retrieval work with myself, taking lost parts of
myself that were shunned and "not liked" over the course of my life (by
others, and consequently myself), and nonjudgementally invited them back into
my body, heart, and soul, in order to become whole again. A lot of those
aspects are what you experienced from me (have you seen "Multiplicity" with
Michael Keaton? That's a good illustration of what was happening inside of
me). I didn't know who was the real ME. So, I let whoever inside had the
most energy running through to express herself, thinking that THAT must be me.
Well, it was, but not ALL of me put together as a whole, just one part
speaking/feeling.
Well, I finally experienced the whole of me (which I talked about in my letter
to the list as the observer and experiencer of the big picture, not the
seperate focuses), and that is a very blissful, harmonious beingness,
encompassing even the turmoil of some of the inner aspects - those are only
gears working together to run the engine. I am the engine, not the seperate
parts. Hallelujah, I found ME! And I am much *bigger* than I gave myself
credit for. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, to practice, ingrain, BECOME all that I already AM..........();-)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:24:27 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Dilbert
Message-ID: <34C64B6B.625EATnospammail.snet.net>
amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us wrote:
Quoting "Dilbert" comic strip:
> "A skeptic checks *all* the drawers."
But never simultaneously.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:31:24 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: meditations
Message-ID: <34C64D0C.2D95ATnospammail.snet.net>
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
(quoting somebody else)
> There is only fear itself, to fear..
Let us put to rest this most absurd saying.
If we fear fear we only perpetuate it.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:20:08 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: meditations
Message-Id: <l03010d01b0ebfb7f1e2fATnospam[207.71.51.135]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com> wrote:
>At 08:02 21/01/98 -0600, Ann Morrison Fisher wrote:
>>Tammy (Ray Morel <r.morelATnospamsympatico.ca>) wrote:
>
>>> but she sure is having fun! I don't really know
>>>very much about meditation techniques or anything but I'm making it up
>>>as I go along
>>
>>That ain't the way it's done!
> But it worked for me! If you are trusting in Goddess to watch over you as
>you play, then She will. You will be guided by curious impulses to try this
>or that, and learn as you go. There is only fear itself, to fear.. dunno
>why everybody wants to share spooky warnings.. it is a cosmic rule: you
>won't be given anything you cannot handle.
Angelique, you are absolutely right, IF "you are trusting in Goddess." I
just didn't see anything about God/Goddess, spiritual guides, or anything
beyond the ego.
Also, I was tired when I wrote this, and that may have affected my tone.
>>
>
>>> Is anything about
>>>meditating dangerous?
>>
>>Well, off the top of my head, there's the danger of ego inflation.
> This ego inflation idea..??? Goddess wants us to know we are Goddess..
>like it says in a "Course in Miracles", "our playing small does not serve
>the world". It only serves our limited ideas about ourselves.
>
Your reliance on Goddess means that you won't have a problem with ego
inflation. An example from Sannella:
"Case #16: Housewife
"In 1972 this woman, who was then in her mid-fifties,
experienced the onset of an intense and disturbing process.... [many
kundalini manifestations]
"Over a period of about three years, she slowly became
convinced that she had been selected by God to be born anew as an advanced
human being. Thus she yielded to the tendency that Jung (1975) had warned
against: that of claiming this impersonal force as her own ego creation
and, as a result, of falling into the trap of ego inflation and false
superiority. She expected others to understand exactly what she was
speaking about and to accept her word unquestioningly, and she grew
distrustful of anyone who disagreed with her interpretations. This woman
has never submitted to the discipline of regular meditation, and was also
not interested in any help I had to offer."
I may be overly cautious because I have seen people with K. problems, some
of them people close to me. I lost a dear friend to this one earlier this
year. She is now out of touch with reality, as another friend put it. No
one can talk to her unless they agree with everything she says and pretend
to "believe in her."
>>And the
>>danger of putting lots of energy in lower centers and not getting raised
>>any higher, in which case lots of things can go wrong with your personal
>>life.
And I lost my husband to this one.
>>
>>>I spooked myself though, meditating in front of a mirror in my bedroom,
>>>can't really recall what spooked me, I think i saw a face in my face or
>>>something,
> I do the mirror game a lot! "Who's home today?"
> But, you need to do it when you are deeply in the "Witness state",
>emotionless.
> Then, if any of them hold still long enough, you can have silent
>conversations with them.. but you will get spooky faces, neanderthal,
>trolls and faerie, aleins.. all the aspects of your multidimensional self..
>it is a test to share love despite appearances. I even had Archangel
>Michael show up once. he is very handsome..
You aren't afraid of what you'll find in yourself, and you trust in
Goddess. That's different.
>
>>>In one meditation I
>>>am a piece of confitti blowing in the wind. It's kind of like a slow
>>>motion roller coaster ride, feels fun.
>>
>>Doesn't sound like you're meditating, sounds like you're day-dreaming.
> Hmm.. sounds like you are taking a narrow view of meditation, Ann..
Maybe so - I could have taken more time and asked more questions to find
out where she was.
> Much of my meditation reveolves around creative visualization. The
>grounding excercise is visualization. Thru imagination, visualization, we
>communicate our desires.
> A confetti blowing, is an excercise in letting go, and surrendering to
>Goddess winds blowing you where you need to be. Relax and trust that the
>wind knows where it is going, you only need to let it carry you effortless.
>Most excellent visualization excercise for K. folks struggling with
>surrender.. Try it, Ann.
> K. IS a slow motion rollercoaster ride.. it has biorhythm- like waves,
>peaks and lows. Thoughts create.
Of course, creative visualization is important. But day-dreaming,
fantasizing, isn't necessarily that. It can be a substitute for and an
escape from creative visualization and meditation.
>She is creating a path of effortless fun
>surrender to a higher stronger power, with this.
That's what I didn't hear - "surrender to a higher stronger power."
>
>>
>>Yes, I'm trying to scare you. I'm hoping you'll realize that it's possible
>>to mess up big-time.
> Stop scaring the newbies, Ann.. she is protected by her faith and
>innocence.
I hope you're right.
> Like, your warning about the intensity of my grounding website: I could
>not describe it's creation or working, because it would limit the
>experiences of folks visiting it.
> Do not project that everyone will have an intense experience of the
>grounding page, just coz you did. Each experience of it that I have read
>so far, is unique. It gives to each, what they need. You needed some
>intensity.. to others, it is like a gentle cloud of light. There was even
>one, who was directed to continue to use the visualization to cleanse, but
>that it was not yet time to wake the Serpents.
> This body typed the page.. the rest came from Goddess, and She decides
>what each person's experience of it will be, and She never gives us more
>than we can handle.
I certainly didn't mean to scare anyone about your page. I'm very grateful
for your exercise; Shakti brings it to my mind in every meditation now.
But I'm the one you mentioned before who went there; thought I could just
skim the exercise, download it, and decide later whether to use it; bought
into it anyway because, as you pointed out, my subconscious took in the
whole thing as I skimmed; and later, to my surprise, had unexpected new
energy and new things happening. I was just trying to keep someone else
from misunderstanding as I did. To me it seems better to know what you're
doing, to go into new things with your eyes wide open.
>>
>>> What is this all about? I thought I was supposed
>>>to be able to control my own meditations...
>>
>>You are supposed to. But you have to learn. And you need a teacher.
> I never hadda teacher, except books..
I never had a teacher in the body, either, but I had guidance. I'll bet
you did, too.
> If I am in control of the meditation, then it will happen as I will
>it..BORING!
> ... but if I am co-creating with Goddess.. She has Her own agenda.. I
>surrender to it.
That's the kind of thing I was looking for in this letter and didn't see.
>
>>Did you read Sherry's story? She got hold of a high-powered meditation
>>method - without explanations. Here's what happened to her.
><..> But had
>>>a really bad energy crash shortly after that and I was weepy for months. I
>>>thought I was losing my mind. Between the hallucinations and voices and
>>>some of the most horrible nightmares I have ever had in my life.
>>
>>I know of one young man who thought if a certain meditation was good for
>>him, it would be even better if he did it for a long time. He's still in a
>>mental hospital.
> Nothing to fear, but fear itself. These two are folks that let their fear
>run away with them. Fear creates. Focus on Love and trust. When fear gets
>out of control, it is because we are not choosing faith. Give the fear up
>to Goddess, to be reshaped into beauty.
The important words here are "to Goddess."
>>
>>You need to find a good teacher who will know what's happening to you and
>>will guide you. If you can't find a teacher, buy a book.
> If you get scared, it can be good to have a teacher to reassure you that
>everything is alright.. but some teachers will expect you to take on their
>fears and limits, along with their wisdom. That's the part that kept
>stopping me from surrendering my path to another human, for more than a
>weekend workshop, at least.
Yes, humans are only human. I guess the best way, if you seek a human
teacher, is to accept what he has to teach that's helpful while recognizing
his "fears and limits" and not taking them on.
> If you are guided to tke a teacher, then one will appear in your life, and
>Goddess will make the tempation irresissatble.. Temptation does come from
>the Serpent.. She guides us by our passions. Follow your bliss.
> In the meantime, we are here.
> Blessings, Mystress.
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