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1997/12/13 17:25
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #826


kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 826
Today's Topics: Re: Bible slamming [ Athena ]
  My Thoughts [ destinyATnospamcyberramp.net ] Arianism [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
  Heaven [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ] rushes and crashes [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
  rushes and crashes [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ] Re: The heartless beast [ "Susan Carlson" ]
  Jealous God [ "S. Hustead" ] *REAL TIME EMERGENCY*[off topic] [ valerian ]
  Re: Happiness...... [ TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH) ] Re: [genius] *REAL TIME EMERGENCY*[o [ valerian ]
  Re: Dreaming [ Lorianna Burkes ] Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:34:36 -0600
From: Athena To: Richard Wentk
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Bible slamming
Message-ID:
Athena here, dragging out soapbox, which is named *my truth*...
> Ruth Trimble wrote: >
> >Keep your mind open... had some very real experiences about it, the > >more I see it as a sort of oppressive regime... How could a God do things
> >like be jealous?
Richard Wentk wrote: >
>> Well, for me that particular old grouch was originally a personification of > a certain rather crude form of tribal consciousness. And still is for some > people. :-)
Excellent thought !!!!!
However... does that invalidate * creator/creation * theory/concept *
??? >
> (Actually I think the Bible is *really* just a publisher's plot to make > lots of money without having to pay any author's royalties. Hmmmm... :-) )
Hehehehhehe... right on ! ... follow the money trail...
As an aside > The Bible went through many translations of languages
before it became the *official* KJV..... words/ideas/concepts lose a lot in translation .... to wit: In a 70ies scientific international
conference... during simultaneous Russian to English translation, *hydrolic ram* got translated as *water goat* ... literally this would
fly... conceptually ???? >
> >Zechariah Sitchin is WELL known for his work on the early history of man. > >His books are delegated to the UFO Wierdo.. type section at Borders..
> >which is a crime, but when did a bookstore clerk know much! >
> Sitchin and Nibiru have been quite thoroughly torn to shreds in various > places. Personally I think his ideas are *very* flaky,
In *my* truth... the presentation of these ideas seem flakey...but based
on sound scientific findings...
To wit: "After the discovery of the Planet Pluto in 1930CE, astronomers soon noted that earlier theories regarding the hypothetical influences
of such a planet on the orbits of Planets Uranus and Neptune were not validated by the existence of *only* Pluto. So eventually in the 1970s
after computers were becoming commonplace, a computer-generated model of this "Planet X," as it was called, was created. It was determined that
Planet X would have to be at least five times bigger than the Planet Earth. They also calculated the length and shape of its orbit around the
Sun as well as the number of years necessary to complete such an orbit."
I am of an age where I remember these controversies in the scientific community ...
> and for me it makes
> no more sense to me to *believe* in them than it does to *believe* in the Bible > as the 'received word of God.' One's an ancient myth, the other is a modern
> myth.
Is it a *myth* ??? or just a hypothesis that has not been proven yet ???
*grin* in the above sentence you use *believe* twice...one of *my truths* ... We see the world through our belief systems....
An interesting process, watching these myths happen... :-)
Yep... or beliefs unfold ??? or hypothesis being proven ???
> > Yeah, there are books that support these ideas. There are books that
> support the Bible too. The evidence for both looks scanty if you give it a > thorough look.
hmmmm... from *my truth* ... Since the dawn of man questions have been
asked ... Who/What/Where/When/Why ARE WE ..and as conciousness has unfolded, we have progressed beyond the Cro-magnon sentience . Starting with crude cave drawings of what man perceived, through oral stories passed down through generations,through papyri holding esoteric knowledge... through books after the invention of the printing press, to the Computers we use today to communicate with each other... all seeking the answer to the 5 W's of what I AM ...
> > Nibiru, for example, is an astronomical impossibility. Ain't no such
> animal. If there were we'd have seen it by now. Sorry. :-)
Well... Computers were no such animals 100 years ago....to paraphrase Willie :
" There are things Horatio, not yet dreamed of in our world.."
So I submit to you, Richard... there are Truths not yet discovered... >
> Something similar goes for Mr Icke, by the way. I've met the guy, done some > work with him, and know his former mentor. She used to live near here and
> is not, I have to say, the most grounded person I've ever met.
hmmm sounds like a judgement call to me *grin*..... heheheh its ok, people call me *weird* too...but I have particularly wide shoulders...
> As for chips and the Mark of the Beast and Revelation -..... Or are we going to > waste the *next* two thousand years quaking in our shoes waiting for the End >Times again?
Those that don't get their spiritual *shit* together will... imho
> > Wouldn't it be interesting if suddenly everyone woke up and realised *we
> have a clear run at the future*. It's ours. We can do whatever we want with > it.
Thats what this is all about Richard... ..many of us *are*
waking up.. re-memebering who and what we are...re-claiming our power... letting go of victimhood... looking within...rejecting the illusions of
our 5 senses.... *knowing* that all *out there* is based on our Belief systems... *knowing* that nobody can do anything *to* us, unless we are
willing to accept it... unless it fits in with our belief systems...unless we have given away our personal power ... unless we
still have needs of playing the victim...
My mind tends to work in quantum leaps...When I posted... "text on a screen can't hurt you " ... I neglected to add how I got there from here
*grin*
Am I a perfect human being ? .. Not only NO ... but HELL NO !!!!!
As long as my oversized butt is still firmly planted in this chair...and I am creating text on a screen...trust me, I have not *ascended*
*giggle*
Am I trying to protheletize , convert people ??? ... HELL NO !!!!
I am trying to share *my truth* ... if it resonates with you, GREAT ! We will have come a little closer in consciousness... a little further on
the path... of *there is only ONE of us*
If it does NOT resonate with you... also GREAT... share *your* truth with *me* ....who knows it might resonate with me... and again we will
have come a little closer in conciousness...
> Especially not with a whole load of tacky cosmic special effects and colourful characters that wouldn't look out of place at a stadium Heavy Metal gig.
*grin* to *me* people are creating, from their belief system,and with their emotions... that which *they* need to try to sort out the eternal
questions ... >
> Waaaay too much drug-taking going on back in those biblical prophet days, > I'd say. :-)
And there isn't today ??? ... people are still trying to get
*enlightened* by an external source.... >
> >The answers can unpeel thousands of years of domination and deprivation.
Agreed... *if* you mean the answers we find when we go within ...eliminate all external crap and align ourselves with the source of
our being... >
> Well, it's true, I do occasionally wonder why things seem to be as > unpleasant and uncivilised as they are round here.
> > But it could just be growing pains. Kids in spiritual kindergarten are
> unlikely to be kind to each other. Just like real kids in the real thing, > who are far more likely to whack each other over the head with their toys
> than to practice understanding, compassion and forgiveness and all those > other things that us adults do so well.
I appreciate your toungue-in-cheek... sometimes we teach best through
humor...and other times we teach best that which we need to learn... >
> Sometimes, anyway. :-) > >In my opinion...
> > Yeah - me too. :-))
Me three !!!
In peace and cosmic laughter
Athena >
--
Love and Light unto your Path...THERE IS ONLY ONE OF US...Athena Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:34:22 -0600
From: destinyATnospamcyberramp.net To: kundalini-1
Subject: My Thoughts Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Hi All....
My departure from Christianity and all religions really began for me when I was 18. I was aware then of the reality that wherever I went it was Spirit Grand Central Station. Secrets or privacy in anything has to be the biggest ludicrous joke.
In my late 20's, I went many times to Ojai, CA to sit under the Oak Groves on a Saturday or Sunday to listen to a most incredible man; Jiddu Krishnamurti. For those in confusion about Maitreya, you should really read, "Krishnamurti - The Years of Awakening" by Mary Lutyens. It's in paperback and contains quite a bit of information on the Kundalini Awakening process that he went through and also about 'the World Teacher', known as Lord Maitreya.
A year ago, this coming week, I went through an almost indescribable 3 month intensive experience with Spirit and Awakening. Since then, it's been moment to moment.
With my experience came tremendous family and friend backlash. That was expected and I went through the many negatives mostly in observation mode. We are all Spirits in the One, and as you speak of twin-flames, the Spirit that played the role of John Lennon is especially close. As it comes to religion, his lyrics truly describe my experience and present position.

Watching The Wheels
People say I'm crazy doing what I'm doing
Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin When I say that I'm o.k. well they look at me kind of strange
Surely you're not happy now you no longer play the game
People say I'm lazy dreaming my life away Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me
When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall Don't you miss the big time boy you're no longer on the ball
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go
Ah, people asking questions lost in confusion Well I tell them there's no problem, only solutions
Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I've lost my mind I tell them there's no hurry
I'm just sitting here doing time
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round I just had to let it go
I just had to let it go I just had to let it go
- John Lennon

Light and Love to All...
John bill beaudine Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:47:20 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Arianism Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Amy Johnson wrote:
>Over the past few years I have pursued...
>Arianism
What is that?
an enquiring mind,
amckeon Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:47:37 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Heaven Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Susan Carlson wrote:
>Of course there is the thought that "once saved always saved," kind of like a >>divine insurance policy. So I will make it to heaven, albeit by the skin of
>my >teeth and without any hope of extra rewards.
That's what I'm counting on! :) Well, if that's true I'll be sittin' up there with ya in the "cheap seats."
sincerely,
amckeon (who can use all the insurance she can get)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:47:32 -0600 From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: rushes and crashes
Message-ID: Deborah A. Orf wrote:
>anyone else have this problem balancing home and spiritual practice?
Home is much easier than work. I can be who I am at home. At work I am this
"thing who is paid to be here." I am living in a Dilbert world, very easy to be cynical and cranky, extremely difficult to be my spiritual self. I
feel a shift happening though.... Things are either going to get better or I am about to be fired. My boss is so moody and secretive it is impossible
to tell which. I am complimented one minute and get the "dagger stare" the next. My detachment from her opinions confuses and angers her, but I sense
she still needs me, so the game continues....
sincerely, amckeon
(loving being me at home today) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:47:27 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: rushes and crashes Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Holly wrote:
>I spent a lotta years looking for god everywhere but my kitchen and my bedroom.
Well, I never felt I needed god in my kitchen... unless he wanted to help with the dishes. But I was ALWAYS looking for god in the bedroom! ;-P
Happy Whatever Day it is in your part of the world,
amckeon Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:58:21 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" To: DonBBensonATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: The heartless beast
Message-ID: Dear Don,
Thank you! :)
~~~~~>~~~/ATnospam
I am not as artistic as you. :-D
You said:
 When I'm not too busy being an anguished old Jeremiah who >has run out of tears trying to get people to look up and turn back
before they >go blindly over the cliff, that is.
Yes, I recognized the prophet in you from the very beginning. Jeremiah
was not a very popular guy, "without honour in his own country"...was that what they said about him?
Remember what God said to Jeremiah, 'Before I formed thee in the belly I
knew thee; and before thou camest out forth out of the womb I sactified thee..." Jeremiah 1:5 ?
Have a wonderful day Don.
Blessings,
Susan
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:53:45 -0500 From: "Harsh K. Luthar"
To: anandajyoti CC: Kurt Keutzer ,
 "heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" , "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" ,
 Susanne Macrae , Gloria Joy Greco ,
 "'Harsh K. Luthar'" , gkieffer%netaxis.com.rebirth%san.rr.com.normdonATnospamuic.edu
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: Enlightenment & Piercing Knots. Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just very quickly: To that I would add also the books of Chinmoy Ghosh
who was a disciple of Aurbindo. Some books by Swami Rama as well. The books on Kundalini and Pranayama by Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh are
well known and contain practical information (As a side my father used to correspond with Swami Sivananda in the 1950s when we lived in India
and received the great Siva Mantra from him). However, the most authoratative books on Kundalini, I have come across were written by
Swami Narayananda of Rishikesh who I believe later found centers in Denmark or the Netherlands. I never met him but upon reading his book,
it was immediately evident that this was a man of great spiritual experience and realization. He is one of the few people who makes the
distinction and emphasizes the difference between a partially and fully raised Kundalini. Most other "Spiritual Masters" have not a clue as to
what that means, which is quite understandable. In the four traditions that I draw from, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Taoism, there are
literally thousands of fascinating books on these topics. One can easily get lost in the jungle of spiritual literature without making much
spiritual progress. For those interested in Self-Realization who truly burn with that thirst for Self-Knowledge like a drowning man desires
breath only, there is only one Sage that I can speak of. The gentle Sage of Arunachala, Sri Ramana Maharshi, whose eyes glowed with the purity
and radiance of Jnana. If ever, even in a dream, one's eyes meet the eyes of such a person, the true meaning of Shaktipat and Grace becomes
immediately evident.
Harsh
anandajyoti wrote: >
> Kurt Keutzer wrote: >
> > > >
> > I wonder if any of you could clarify a couple things for me. The first is > > simply a reference.
> > Anandajyoti>
> I would suggest, if you are so inclined to get hold of Aurobindo's own writings.I > give below the references.
> The Life Divine, which includes : The Synthesis of Yoga, The Human Cycle, The > Ideal of Human Unity, The Future Poetry, On the Vedas, The Upanishads, Essays on
> the Gita, and the Foundation of Indian Culture. The whole book is 950 pages odd. > Also the Topics have been separately published as Individual books.
> Other good book of reference would be Sri Aurobindo on Himself and The Mother. > You may first seek these out in your local library, if these are available.
> The publishers in the U.S. could be Dutton Books, and the main one is Sri > Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry , India. I found my collection from a major Book
> Store, Macmillan's > in London.
> Kurt> >
> > The other experience is harder to define. The energy is associated with the > > crown but the closest feeling I can relate it to is a kind of partriarchal
> > power. ...... It was not negative in any way but it was not especially > > compassionate. It has a kind of ``wisdom of the ages certainty'' about it. Can
> > anyone explain the nature of this second energy. >
> Anandajyoti> > The second kind of experience which you mention, could be , I say could be, (I may
> wrong here, so please correct me , if I am wrong) , that you felt in sharing the > wisdom coming out of the experience , in order that the recipients, may understand
> more, and > try to change their perspective. It is like love of the parent towards the
> children. The parent may pass on the wisdom, through this kind and impersonal > love, but if the recipients do not take it in its true light, lot of
> misunderstanding may occur, when they construe the wisdom, as an imposition. >
> > Kurt: >I suppose any reasonable person would just serve their teachers, > > meditate, study, reflect, be kind to others and silently rejoice in
> > whatever personal realization they might have. But just as an artist must > > sing or paint there is something in me (I won't call it an ``I'' anymore)
> > that must still enquire and understand. > >
> > Anandajyoti>The self inquiry never ends, till we understand all the dynamics and
> comprehend them in its true light. The most pressing in accepting all the > diversity and in spite of it all realizing
> the substratum of the Unity behind. Just as we go to a theater and observe a > movie, the pictures on the screen, change constantly giving us various scenarios,
> we cry and laugh, dance and get depressed through the scenes, because we identify > ourselves with the changing scenes. At that time we seldom realize or feel, that
> these pictures presented are all for our enjoyment and experience, throughout. > After the movie ends, the blank screen, which is the substratum, remains
> unchanged, for another movie to be shown on it. So we find that also in our daily > lives, that the scenes change constantly, so do our reactions and responses to
> them change all the time. How many of us would really, see the blank substratum, > behind it, and keep that in remembrance also?
> That is why in ACIM , they always speak of staying in the present, and enjoying > and experiencing, the ALL in ONE and the ONE in ALL. A constant remembrance of it.
> > I myself, have experienced the truth of this statement, through a very good friend
> of mine, who has really been able to hone this idea in me, and practicing it , I > have been able to know the truth behind.
> > A Very Joyous Christmas and the Best for the New Year to All.
> > Anandajyoti
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:40:17 -0800 (PST)
From: M To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: dead bugs Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Anyone else ever see an unusually high proportion of dead bugs lying around both here and there and know about its metaphysical sinifigance/symbolism?
My intuition says it is an outward manifestion of the metal detox I am going through and probably something good. Bugs to me (indoors anyway) seem to
symbolize irritants.
I'd appreciate input on this.
Thanks,
M Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:23:09 -0800
From: "S. Hustead" To:
Subject: Jealous God Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
ShedATnospamMagick.net
The minister of the Unity Church in my town reads and speaks Aramaic, one of the languages of texts translated into the bible. She speaks of many
translation erors - one of which is the term "jealous God". The more correct translation would be "Zealous God". She teaches that to get the
grains of truth in reading the bible, one must know the translation errors, know when it is "ancient custome", "grandious embellishment" ,"parable" ,
"historical", "analogy" or "prophetic" accounting in what you are reading. I believe she has also stated that the book of Revelations is a vision of
impending war between armies and a potential change in rulership at that time. Not something to drag into this current millenium hysteria.
Blessings
Sue Hustead Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:47:13 -0800
From: valerian To: Listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE
CC: genius-lATnospamMyList.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, zendoATnospammail.win.org Subject: *REAL TIME EMERGENCY*[off topic]
Message-ID:
i ponder to interrupt to interject a universal query to any & all electricians out there:
my daughter kicked me off my computer long enough to notice that the leaky roof above the electrical fuse box for the whole place in the back
closet has become a leak of torrentiall proportions. i put a bowl atop the fuse box & called a local guy who won't rip me off, & his machine
says he likes to be closed on the weekend, but if is emergency leave a message. if he doesn't call back soon i call somebody else, who maybe
rip off $/ maybe not. without looking at it, does anybody know how likely a fuse box with a
closed door is likely to short out the whole electrical system? in short, should i be calling 9-11, or just over-reacting???
i apologize for any inconvenience this post might cause anyone; if it were not an emergency, i would never be so rude...
i simply have no idea what else to do right this second!!! now - back to *regularly scheduled programming* in the lives of people
without leaky roof over their electrical fusebox... v
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:56:03, -0500 From: TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Happiness......
Message-Id:
Thank you!
Helen Keller's poem is lovely. One point of discussion- if you don't
do for yourself, how can you do for others?
=============
I feel the same way, in fact the Bible says...... Love you neighbor as you do yourself.....
So, to love another you must love yourself FIRST!
from Conversations with God:
If you cannot love your Self, you cannot love another. Many people make the mistake of seeking love of Self
through love for another. Of course, they don't realize they are doing this. It is not a conscious effort.
It's what's going on in the mind. Deep in the mind.
In what you call the subconscious. They think:
"If I can just love others, they will love me. Then I will be lovable, and I can love me."
The reverse of this is that so many people hate themselves
because they feel there is not another who loves them. This is a sickness-it's when people are truly "Lovesick" because
the truth is, other people do love them, but it doesn't matter.
No matter how many people profess their love for them, it is not enough. First, they don't believe you. They think
you are trying to manipulate them- trying to get something.
(How could you love them for who they truly are? No. There must be some mistake. You must want
something! Now what do you want?)
They sit around trying to figure out how anyone could actually love them. So they don't believe you, and
embark on a campaign to make you prove it. You have to prove that you love them. To do this, they may ask
you to start altering your behavior.
Secondly, if they finally come to a place where they can believe you love them, they begin at once to worry
about how long they can keep your love. So, in order to hold onto your love, they start altering their behavior.
Thus, two people literally lose themselves in a relationship.
They get into the relationship hoping to find themselves, and they lose themselves instead.This losing of the Self
in a relationship is what causes most of the bitterness in such couplings.Two people join together in a partnership
hoping that the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts, only to find that it's less.
They feel less than when they were single. Less capable,
less able, less exciting, less attractive, less joyful, less content.
This is because they are less. They've given up most of
who they are in order to be - and to stay - in their relationship.
Relationships were never meant to be this way. Yet this is how they are experienced by more people than you could ever know.

____ God Loves You Forever
Tom Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:55:32 -0800
From: valerian To: genius-lATnospamMyList.net
CC: Listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, zendoATnospammail.win.org Subject: Re: [genius] *REAL TIME EMERGENCY*[off topic]
Message-ID:
stop the *world*, i want to get off now ! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:03:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Lorianna Burkes To: Ruth Trimble , M
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Dreaming
Message-ID: ---Ruth Trimble wrote:
>where most people metitate with their eyes closed... I do it while awake and I have most of my "dreams or visions" with my eyes fully open.
> Ruth...i have similar visions/dreams with my eyes fully open as
well....have since i was a child...although, i can close my eyes and do the same...sometimes in an instant...it isnt uncommon at all for me
to have such visions without closing my eyes.
You are definitely not alone in this
I have also noticed that as i get older, i tend to not remember my dreams as often...and i am usually so exhausted by the time i do go to
bed, that i sometimes dont even think i dream. I think dreaming or not dreaming is an individual thing.
Love and Light...
Lorianna
_________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:10:42 -0600
From: Phil Vinson To: madammumATnospamPTIALASKA.NET, Listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE
Cc: genius-lATnospamMyList.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, zendoATnospammail.win.org Subject: Re: *REAL TIME EMERGENCY*[off topic]
Message-Id: At 1:47 PM -0800 12/14/97, valerian wrote:
>without looking at it, does anybody know how likely a fuse box with a
>closed door is likely to short out the whole electrical system? in >short, should i be calling 9-11, or just over-reacting???
Not likely, but I wouldn't stick my hand in the fuse box while it's wet.
I'd try to dry it out with a hair dryer or such.
-pv-

================ Phil Vinson >

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