1997/12/05 20:25
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #796
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 796
Today's Topics:
Re: Depression Month [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: Enlightenment [ TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH) ]
Re: dreams [ fransATnospamdegas.telebyte.nl ]
Re: Non-Enlightenment [ Buckingham <siestaATnospamicarus.ihug.co.n ]
Soul Mates [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: Realization [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Enlightenment is... [ tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston) ]
Internal Virus? [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: Enlightenment [ M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net> ]
Re: Soul Mates [ M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net> ]
Enlightenement, Ego , Feeling, Intui [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
RE: Soul Mates [ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Galv=E1n_Jim=E9nez_M ]
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:24:17 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Depression Month
Message-ID: <19971205222418.11230.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Gloria wrote:
snip
>
>Perhaps it is time to step back and observe this from a more neutral
>place, if he was truly your soul mate, even if it was tested it
wouldn't
>fold.
even the best, most true can fold...i know this from hard experience.
I wonder about judas iscariot and jesus...what that might mean for
me...what lessons i might learn about my responisibilities in my
relationships....who could say whether or not that was a soul mate
relationship.
So, just look at it this way, if this relationship is really
>yours, let it go...if it comes back to you without you doing anything,
i have been discovering that no relationship is truly mine...making
someone mine puts them in a cage...maybe a luxurious cage but a cage
still. [maybe i might take lessons from Angelique in that respect :-)]
>you can be certain that it is founded on the strongest of principles.
yes...i can do nothing for anyone nor do anything to anyone....i cannot
change anyone to meet my expectations, my dreams...i can only heal
myself thereby creating a place for people to show up in a new way in my
life.
>And, there will be nothing that will ever sway either of you again.
and, if each is committed to having no hidden agendas, a clean and clear
heart and a sincere desire to see the other grow...even if it means
growing in different directions on the earth plane while cultivating
parallel growth on the spiritual level.
And although i am speaking from my own experiences only, knowing all
that above, hearing everything that anybody might tell me, doesnt make
it hurt any less, make the longings go away any quicker. My human heart
still bleeds for awhile, and i will still cry for a time.
Much love,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:24:05, -0500
From: TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, tgxxxATnospamjuno.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-Id: <199712052224.RAA12780ATnospammime4.prodigy.com>
:> Dear xxxtg....
I know where you're coming from, I once was there also.
I once doubted my feelings, didn't trust them.....that was ego.
Once I awakened to the ego.....realizing the difference...I learned
to trust my true inner most feelings. I, today, listen, trust, and
know
that my inner feelings are Love not fear....... This awareness came
from listening, I would hear the chattering voice....ego.
The ego is a wonderful tool towards inner growth....but after a
while
you simply must tell it "Thank you, now shut-up and go away!" I used
to
laugh greatly after doing this. :>
Now I live within the quiet mind, as I write this note to you, my
words
are my feelings within...not the ego attacking you for voicing you
opinion.
True intuition and inner feelings are the same....gut feelings. But,
you must
be aware of the ego.......simply by moving towards the Light will
assist you
greatly.....
Please read what you said here as if another wrote it, I believe you
will be able to notice
the chattering ego at work.....much doubt....questioning your true
feelings:
"I know sometimes I will have a thought ''I know I should do
this'', and later I end up saying, ''Damn! I knew I should have
done
that!". It could be that these thoughts have been brought up and
have
to go somewhere to be realized (ie. thoughts are things). I could
just
as easily *defend* my thoughts with a counter thought, ie., when I
catch
myself thinking ''I know I should do this'', and I add the thought
''well
if I do, fine, and if I don't, fine - it doesn't really matter'',
then
that seems to nullify the thought where it isn't regretted later.
I
have a problem with this though, to have to watch my thoughts that
closely and having to defend or counter-attack them. So, in the
meantime, I will just observe them."
Listen to your self, being aware of your thoughts, feelings....Etc...
is a sign of Growth. Becoming aware of your chattering ego is a
blessing many do not accept. You stated:
"So, in the meantime, I will just observe them."
Do not only observe them, get in touch with them..
they are there for your growth....moving towards the
Light..
God Bless......
Tom
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:37:58 +0000
From: fransATnospamdegas.telebyte.nl
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: dreams
Message-Id: <199712052235.XAA08150ATnospamdegas.telebyte.nl>
<snip>
>I am curious...how do others view dreams? I used to think that they
>represented my psychological work and processes. E.g., I am stressed
>so I dream of having to row a boat against a stream before I get
>pulled down a waterfall.
</snip>
Hello Nancy, Beloved List, not much of an answer though, this post
triggered some memories I would like to tell.
I am with a group in Paris and we realize someone is missing. I
decide to leave the group and pick up that person. It's a young girl.
We fly above Paris, then I wake up. I'm laying in a kind of
foetus-position filled with ectasy, which lasted an eternity, +/- 20
minutes. This dream shattered all my views of everything, and I was
studying philosophy for years to have them. Went to Bhagwan in 1980,
and danced the kundalini-meditation...
In another dream i feel someone coming to me. In this dream i didn't
see a thing, it was pure feeling. A woman enters me(??) and makes
love to me, very gently, and this was more real as i ever felt. I am
glad this dream doesn't haunt my memory anymore...
This one still does: I am doing some errands for my mother.
A warm yellow sun in blue skies, and a beautiful white horse comes
running down a green hill. I think to myself, hey, i have been
reading Jung about horses! At that moment I realize I am laying in
bed, having a dream. Finally I can do the Carlos Castaneda thing and
Look At My Hands! When my hands appear in front of my face, the dream
loses all it's colors, a huge force pushes me in the back and throws
me in the air. I panick and I can only think of looking at my hands.
The movement stops, but as soon my hands appear in front of my face,
the force takes me again. When I try to lift my hands again they
seem glued together at some place near the navel, and how much I
try they won't come lose, I wake up, and the feeling of having
glued-to-belly_hands fades into having nice relaxed arms laying
beside me, but with all hair straight up!
Have a nice weekend everybody, frans.
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:53:14 +1300
From: Buckingham <siestaATnospamicarus.ihug.co.nz>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Non-Enlightenment
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971206105314.00685e24ATnospampop.ihug.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Jesa Macbeth wrote:
> How To Tell If You're Not Enlightened
>
Can somebody lend me a candle :>)
ShortyB
Regards
Ian Buckingham
Maungatawhiri
New Zealand
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:32:17 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
cc: veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
Subject: Soul Mates
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971205142321.1918S-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
DEar Heartbroken:
You write: >>
Recently, through my readings, I had learned that soulmates could have
very
stormy relationships if they were to meet. Ours was the most beautiful
relationship, but the stormiest too. Our Love was bigger than the universe
and so strong nothing could have ever destroyed it, except us.
The fault is all mine, I was impatient, didn't understand the changes my
soulmate was going through, I was confused, and so attached to him.
I should have given him time, patience would have been wise, dettached
myself from him should have been done. If I had open the eyes of my heart,
maybe he would still care for me today.
It is too late now, tears roll down my face everyday, I could have killed
myself for having betrayed him. However, I have to live with it, and try
to
find peace and answers to why, I had to finally found him to loose him
almost a year later.>>>
I have met and loved at least 4 of my "soul mates" and after the first
encounter, I too went into such depression and sorrow that I shut down my
life and heart. It was 10 years later I fell in love with another and all
the heartache from the first one came up.. and healed! It was so
wonderful that I felt as close to my first soul mate 10 years later as if
he were right therein the second one. It was then true of the third one
who cured me of all heartache for the second break up.
I have just had to say good bye to my twin flame on this physical level
and I must confess it
is not easy and I have at times a deep sorrow. But even last night I felt
that sadness. I had to look into it more deeply. I realized, I just could
NOT be separated from any of them if I just
understood this phenomenon. For I am joined to them all through the soul.
So I tuned into my deepest soul level and spoke to them there as if they
were right with me, and immediately I felt calmed and healed of all my
pain.. which left and hasn't come back. This is where we are all one.
I hope that this is a comfort. It appears to be your mind which is telling
you he is gone.. for if you really relax a little on the sorrow, you will
realise that such departure for you and him is COMPLETELY impossible!
There is no where in the universe where he could go and you not be with
him... now tell me is there?
Send him your love not your depression. He will be back... but in the
meantime you are clearly meant to be getting on with something else.
Have a wonderful day.. and a hug, Ruth
*****
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:44:02 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Realization
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971205143319.1918T-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Anandajyoti (Blissful prayer?)
Thank you for your welcome reply as was Harsh's. It is not easy sometimes
to ascertain the middle path in the doctrines that teachers espouse. I
appreciate your input.
> the Bhagavad Gita, nothing is ever lost in the continuum. Each birth,
> brings in the spiritual achievement one has already gone through in
> previous ones, and carries it forward,towards full enlightenment.
> It also mentions by virtue of one's will power and natural inclination,
> one can have the full realization even in one life time, if one chooses,
> and the level of expansion or realization the particular person has gone
> through in previous life times, are all remembered, and takes it
> forward.
> So, Ruth , you are right in your perspective of this aspect, and I find
> your understanding very clear.
I have been seeking these answers in many places. If you ask teachers,
they will only see one side of it. But the Brahma Kumaris would agree
entirely with your above statement.
Does anyone else follow the Braham Kumaris?
Ruth
*****
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:34:26 -0500
From: tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Enlightenment is...
Message-ID: <19971205.193839.4590.14.tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>
. You always act the way you think an enlightened being should act.
. You always act the way others say an enlightened being should act.
. You transcend your anger by pretending it doesn't exist.
. You pretend and act as if you are a spiritual being living in a human
body.
. You always argue with a fool so others will know who the wise one is.
. You know you are the chosen one (just like you always suspected).
. You have your Guru/Teacher on a pedestal.
xxxtg
"Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it."
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:30:59 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
cc: Angelique <kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Internal Virus?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971205145209.1918W-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Don and your statement: >> I too have noticed that most members of the
K-list seem to have imbibed the doctrine of reincarnation with their
mother goddess milk, and they carry on this teaching unconsciously in post
after post as though it were some absolute underlying truth not subject to
question or debate. >>>
If you get on a bike and figure out how to ride it.. would you need to
have someone debate how you did it and whether it was possible to ride it?
Your statements above betray your lack of awareness of this phenomena..
sort of like the "flat earth" folks.
Watch out Don... a paradigm shift took place and you got left on the
icebergs....
PS please do not send me one of your harrassing replies either.. I am not
interested in playing debate games with you. I suspect you are a virus to
our list from some group that thinks we need to be reformed. Anyone else
been harrassed?
*****
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:37:23 -0800 (PST)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-Id: <199712060137.RAA08385ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"The thing you are looking for is what is looking."
St. Francis (I think)
M
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:17:10 -0800 (PST)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
Subject: Re: Soul Mates
Message-Id: <199712060217.SAA26371ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:32 PM 12/5/97 -1000, Ruth Trimble wrote:
>I have just had to say good bye to my twin flame on this physical level
>and I must confess it
>is not easy and I have at times a deep sorrow. But even last night I felt
>that sadness. I had to look into it more deeply. I realized, I just could
>NOT be separated from any of them if I just
>understood this phenomenon. For I am joined to them all through the soul.
>So I tuned into my deepest soul level and spoke to them there as if they
>were right with me, and immediately I felt calmed and healed of all my
>pain.. which left and hasn't come back. This is where we are all one.
>I hope that this is a comfort.
At the worst time in my life I lost my best and almost only close friend. We
had had a brief romance and had bonded quickly due to similar painful
experiences. We were too wounded to sustain the romance but did stay very
close friends. In the previous few months I had gotten too busy to call
him. I figured he hadn't called me for similar reasons, but I always thought
we would be there for each other. Instead he drove off a cliff.
I got more depressed and stayed angry with him for many, many months.
Eventually I went to church one day when things were getting a little
better. I was quite bored by the sermon, Love allows. . . The minister was
doing this whole list, all much too elementary for me. Love allows the
loved to be who they are, love allows the loved to wear ugly clothes, love
allows the loved to choose their own career... etc.,etc.,etc. All much too
simplistic for me... until he said: love allows the loved to decide when it
is time to leave this life. Jaw dropped, ton of bricks hit, embarrassed
muffled AH AH, clouds part in revelation, knock me over with a hummingbird
feather, etc.
I just had to let him go right then and there. I mean we always said we
loved each other. It was suddenly obvious that I wasn't being very loving.
That night I was awakened by him. He stood at the end of the bed we had
sometimes shared. He was mostly light, but all him. He thanked me so very
deeply . . .(There was more too.)
It was the most profound experience of my life for about 10 years. It was
years before I could or did share it with anyone.
All my relationships have been different since then. Always both attachable
and detachable, I guess you'd say.
A slice of my life.
M
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:34:13 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
CC: tg langston <tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>, smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au
Subject: Enlightenement, Ego , Feeling, Intuition.
Message-ID: <3488B9A1.A90ATnospamgeocities.com>
tg langston wrote:
>
> Thomas Smith wrote:
> <<"The soul speaks to you in feelings. Listen to your feelings.
> Follow your feelings. Honor your feelings.">>
Anandajyoti>
How would we know which feelings are extensions of the soul, which are
colored by our emotions, by our mental and social conditionings,and
which are purely sensual(like touch, taste, sight, smell, and
hearings.)?
When we touch a silk cloth, we feel its softness, when we touch a piece
of rock, we feel it hardness or coarse/smoothness. Here in the physical
aspect, the feelings are the responses in our mind. Through discernment,
and by comparison with previous experiences, we are able to convey the
relative softness of the silk and coarseness of the rock. There are also
feelings which we all know about which come from the responses which we
reflect through our emotions, like anger and such.
Then there are other feelings too, like mental feelings, when we enter a
room full of people, and we feel uneasy about something which is very
clear to us at that time. So this response of the feelings , I think, is
from the mental level.
According to the yoga principles, the touching and feeling (which is
very much interchanged , in our everyday language) can also be seen as
emotion that are being cultivated as a response, to our Tamasic, Rajasic
and sattvic inclinations. We all the have these aspects of the Tamasic,
rajasic, and the sattvic, within us, and the harmony in our lives , is
maintained by having a balance of the three aspects.
Tamasic Aspect of feeling is the uncultivated response , which in simple
terms would mean, without awareness for the sensitivity of what is
touched, be it a person or an object.
For example, touch is often emotionally stimulated and serves as a
barometer, to find out, if the touch of my hand is well received or not.
If well received , the feelings conveys to me that I am accepted.
In this case , one would find that it only serves my own emotional needs
, rather than of a giving nature. This motivation to touch would be
called Tamasic.
Rajasic aspect of feelings, would also be partially motivated by the
fulfillment of my own needs, but there would also be a willingness and
readiness to meet the needs of the other person. The underlying factor
in this case is my desire to accept and my need to be accepted.
The Sattvic aspect of feelings, is that it will give without asking
anyhting in return, a sponteneous from the heart action. This is the
spiritual feeling, here the ego is not involved,it is like a flash of
intuitive feeling and knowing at the same time, simalteneously.
As our process of awareness expand, so does our emotional impulses
undergo change.
So discernment is necessary to become aware of the origination of our
responses to feelings.Where are the feelings coming from?
> > Sue wrote:
> <<Feelings are the main avenue of expression for the ego. "Don't trust
> your feelings" is often more appropriate. If I have a feeling that is
> anything but the expression of pure and absolute love, then I know it
> comes from the ego.
> The expression of feelings by the ego is to find gratification not to
> find love.>>
Anandajyoti>>
I agree here on the point made, that the egocentric feelings is to find
gratification, not love.but I think , I could add that feelings are not
only the main avenue for the ego, but feelings are also avenue, of
physical, mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of ourselves. The main
criteria, what I think, is to have the harmonious balance of all
aspects, in a refined way. Even in our day to day lives, we would find
that too much of anything, is not very healthy and wholesome either.
> xxxtg>>>>>
The step that I am at now is that spirit *knows* and ego *feels*.
Anandajyoti>>
I agree , that the spirit knows , but the ego , does not feel, it rather
responds to the feelings, through its own designs, for it fears losing
its power over our expressions.
If we say knowing, then is that knowing being brought about by our
perceptions, through thoughts? I cannot understand that how we could we
consider these perceptions as beyond words, so this needs to be
clarified too, I believe!
Does beyond words mean, mental speech or beyond mental speech? Then
again if we say knowing is beyond the mind, then question arises,if it
is beyond mind, then how can it be known?
On the other hand, from the Kundalini aspect, if we say that the Divine
is the source of what is perceived beyond words and beyond mind, then
could that be termed as spiritual knowing? Or as is usually expressed by
saying: a knowing of the heart?
If consciousness is energy and energy is indestructible, then an unusual
manifestation of consciousness can be perceived as coming from the
spiritual centre.
tgxxx>
I may feel like tearing you apart with
> my anger, but I know that isn't the right way to handle the situation.
By going along with my
> feelings, I may find myself crossing boundaries of my moral or ethical
> values and later regretting them.
Anandajyoti>
Recently through experience, I have understood that that when our
emotions rise, we need to become aware of them, observe them as you say,
and take all their power out,and withdraw identifying ourselves with
them.
But I also think, it would take time to practice to withdrawing
identification of the SELF with our emotions. I could also say it is
better to practice than to struggle with them.
>
tgxxx>
> for me -- Can intuitions sometimes be a play of the ego?? And if so,
> what are the clues to distinquishing between the ego and spirit
> intuitions?
Anandajyoti>
Intuition, as I know it, is a very quick perception without the
interevntion of conscious attention or the thought process, or
reasoning.
The ego has no play here, it is perception even before the ego can
influence it.Intuition , I think, is the extension of the Divine within
us,or the descent of that awareness from the Universe. The ego on the
other hand, I think, cannot be defined as such, but we can understand
its workings from its opposite angle.
"ACIM:The ego's opposite--- the origin, the effect, and the consequence
, is what can be called a miracle. The miracle forgives the ego
damns.Neither need be defined except by this.
Swami Radha writes for this: "In the begining there may be insights of
great significance, but as soon as intution begins to unfold, the
perceptions are of a different quality, which can be designated as
Divine.These perceptions flow in to the mind and are often preceeded by
a sense of peace and calmness, or by waves of brilliant hues of blue
color."
Thanks for the dialog Sue, and tgxxx, it allows us all to hone our
understanding on such subtleties.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:51:58 -0600
From: Galván Jiménez Marco Antonio
<GALVANMATnospamtelmex.net>
To: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>, Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
Subject: RE: Soul Mates
Message-Id: <199712060304.VAA19060ATnospamlists.execpc.com>
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