1997/12/04 08:57
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #790
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 790
Today's Topics: Re: Multi-orgasmic & desperate need [ Mystress Angelique Serpent ]
Re: Enlightenment [ "Harsh K. Luthar" To: STARNYCATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Multi-orgasmic & desperate need for help
Message-Id:
Relax, my dear, Don't Panic.. we are here, you are not alone.. you have
just joined a community of over 300 folks who are interested in your wellbeing.
It feels like you could really use a hug! Tough to do over the internet, but not impossible. I have been known to show up astrally, along with the
email.. I'm not a therapist, but I have good intuition. Here goes..
At 00:00 04/12/97 -0500, STARNYCATnospamaol.com wrote:
> My spiritual therapist says I have K, You do.
> I am terrified becasue my spiritual therapist said that I had a
>sado-masochistic relationship with my meditation teacher, not my fault--and >that my teacher's god experiences are psychotic--the teacher who was in over
>her head said she would be my friend--and was lovely two weeks ago and said >she would meditate with me again--and is now not returning my phone
>calls--ITherapist said that I have acute trauma from teacher and K process at >same time--
Well, I am a spiritual tutor, and a consensual sadomaschochist... and I
talk to Goddess daily.. does that also make me a psychotic psychopath? No. At least, I think not..;P
It does perhaps give me the background I need to offer you a different perspective, tho.
I dunno what happened with the teacher, but unless she was physically abusing you, humiliating you or deliberately causing you pain that you
wanted to feel, then it is NOT sado-masochistic. This word has two parts: sadist= likes to hurt others.. Maschochist=
likes to be hurt.. do you like to be hurt? No.. you said it was "not your fault" so it was not something you asked for. So the proper term would be
"abusive", not sado-masochistic. Not nearly such an emotionally charged word, "abusive", but perhaps more
accurate?
Is it accurate? You do not speak of your own feelings about the meditation teacher, except to guess she was in over her head, and now she's
not returning your calls. Forgive her for this.. failure is hard for most folks to face, and
spiritual evolution sometimes doesn't make it much easier, coz we come to expect so much more of ourselves. For healers, the hardest thing is seeing
the ones we cannot help. Likely she is busy patching up her shredded self-confidence..
The words your therapist might have been thinking of is
"Dominant/submissive relationship". Not the same thing as sado-masochistic, although me and My slaves find they combine delicously well together.. with
a nice chianti.. heh heh.. (Not making fun of you, just seeking some humor, making fun of myself..)
But of course your relationship with any teacher would be a
"Dominant/submissive relationship", coz all that means is that one obeys the other. One leads, the other follows. Guru/seeker, teacher/student,
parent/child, boss/employee... all of these are Dominant/submissive relationships.. and codependent on each otehr to exist.
And so what? It is neccesary and functional to submit to lessons from your teacher if you wish to learn.
Just as it is necessary to listen to your Doctor's advice, if you want to get better. Doctor/patient is also Dominant/submissive.
Who told you "not my fault"? Was that your thought?
I am wondering this, coz saying it is not your fault implies that it could have been, or that someone else is to blame... and to my mind, issues
of fault and blame have no place in a conversation about Spirit. Things happen for Goddess' Divine purpose, and we don't ever necessarily
find out why.. just trust that it does, it does, it does, and that there is going to be something really wonderful to come out of this, when it is
resolved. It really is in your highest good, everything is.. tho it might be hard to think so sometimes, when you are feeling low.. but you are
awakened, safe in Goddess arms... and all of these events have brought you here.. to a community of folks like yourself, who actually understand what
you are talking about coz we've BEEN THERE! Folks here have felt what it is like to have Goddess take over
everything.... at odd moments and with extreme intensity. We can reassure you that things really do always happen for the best.. when your faith is
running low.
What I find myself really wondering about is, if the therapist is so invested in helping you, and is so spiritually advanced, why is this person
traumatizing you by undermining your faith in one of the few people you trust: your meditation teacher.. with negative labels?
It is a truism that what we say about others, is always more true of ourselves, thru the mirror of All that Is. It might prove an interesting
thought experiment, to ponder the mirror represented by your therapist's opinions, eh?
Wanting to be a consensual sado-masochist, and not an abusive psychopath
led me to study every type of abuse extensively.. so I would know the difference well.. and admittedly the info also comes in handy,
professionally ;) coz some folks request very specific experiences of me.. and pay cash.. strange world, eh?
I will tell you, step 1 is to isolate the victim from sources of support or alternative opinions. Child abuse to cult brainwashing, the strategy
always begins the same. Who has isolated you? Whose opinions became more important than your own?
-Meditation teacher
>told me to detach from the world and let ego die--I am desperate- >conflicted-confused and need hope, and light and stabillity--
Ego sure puts up one heck of a fight, eh? Running around terrified, thinking you are tring to kill it. Wants to take you with it when it goes.
That's not the plan, tho.. so stop trying to kill your ego, and make friends with it. It is not yours to kill, it too belongs to Goddess, and
she will take it in her own time. Stop trying so hard, relax and smell the roses.
I have heard before, of folks getting thoughts of suicide before the energy broke.. you are not going to die, physically.. but your present
ideas about who you are, might.. to be reborn a new self, into the same body. This crisis will pass, and you will still be here with us, better
than ever, helping others with your intuitive wisdom.
Detachment.. it is a terrible word, we need to find a better word to explain what is needed.. folks think detachment means apathy... stop caring
about what happens.. it doesn't.. it means to trust in what happens as a gift of Goddess, and live it fully, without fear for yourself.
That means to immerse yourelf in the feelings that come, and feel them enough to name them precisely for what they are. Naming the Dragon gives
you power over it, and so it flees! Emotions named leave your body, and you dicover another layer of emotion under it.. name that one too.. and when
you have peeled tham all away, under it is the peace that passeth understanding. I recently wrote a long post about it, that I will forward
to you.
> Tom wrote: >1. Take up some highly creative activity if not already doing so.
> These energies have a not completely undeserved reputation for > being destructive if deprived of a creative outlet..
This is excellent advice! I would add, get a pen or some paints, and start to draw your fears..
normally I don't tell folks to give their "darkness" more attention, but since it is grabbing you by the throat, it might be wise to see what it
wants, get it outside yourself so you can look at it.. somehow. It does not matter if you cannot draw, that is not the point of the excercise.. the
point is to manifest the fears outside of your body onto paper so you can burn them up, with the intent of releasing them so they are gone from your
being. Transformed into light and warmth.. given up to Goddess to take care of.
If you feel like it, draw the bliss, too.. and keep it around to look at, or burn it, also.. not to destroy it but as an offering to Goddess
requesting more of the same, please, thankyou very much. Same actions, but different intentions.
If it seems difficult, try using the hand you do not normally write with.
>I need an enlightened master in meditation to mirror my Love and calm me-- >please help
>terribly confused, getting to many conflicting and frightening pieces of >advice from my alleged support system--but I can't go back--once this deeply
>on spiritual path-- >need tender support and clarity-
Ya know what? You don't need a thing.. Goddess gives us exactly what we need, always.. just we have opinions that we think we know better, so we
make things hard. You are making things harder with not just your ego-opinions, but also by taking on the opinions of those around you.. stop
it. When the spiritual tutors all seem to turn sour and confusing, sometimes
it is Goddess pushing you out of the nest. Time to fly with your own wings, my dear.. once this deeply on the spiritual path, as you put it.. the only
truth that is absolutely 100% true for you, is that which is spoken by the voice of the opened heart.
In this place, it is not answers you are seeking, but really good questions, to ask your self. Nobody else can have the answers for you.. and
thus you are confused, trying to take answers that don't fit.. coz everybody you meet, is really talking about themselves, thru the mirror of
all that is. Support to me, comes down to any expression that says "Hello. I am here.
I love you." I get that, clarity comes of itself.
We share stuff and learn from each other.. and we also learn from trees, food, cockroaches, rocks... ya know? They too offer us support and clarity,
if we really listen. We enjoy the sharing and community, but each of us has our own "truths",
and they define who we are. At the end of the day, the only opinion about you that matters, is your own. Goddess opinion counts also, but She knows
you are perfect and totally worthy of unconditional love.. so don't worry, Her opinion will never change.
Focus on Her love, and the things that You love, and stop worrying so much about what other people think of it. Love is the constant to hang onto
when the confusion hits, and everything else seems uncertain. Follow your bliss. Do what you love.
Get a few good, eternal questions, and ask them of your heart, several
times a day. Who am I? (Goddess answering that one can be quite a trip!)
What do I want most? What is most blissful about this moment?
What higher truth do I most need to remember right now? What do I love most?
What do I fear most? Why? What kind of comedy script would my fears make?
What other disasters added on would make it even funnier? What am I most grateful for, right now?
If you feel you want a therapist or teacher, then have one.. but they
must play second fiddle to your own inner guru, Goddess' still, small voice of love. That is the only way for you to end your confusion. Choose one
voice to listen to, about what you need.. the voice of Goddess, and have no other before it.. not even me! :D Pay attention to when your heart leaps
with joy at recognition of truth spoken by another, but for the rest.. they have their opinion, and you have yours, and that is the way it is, and
nothing needs to change. "Thank goodness we are all different," as Alice in Wonderland said..
"imagine how boring it would be if we were all the same?"
Go looking for "the truth that makes you laugh".. watch some brilliant comedy.. laugh yer ass off at Charlie Chaplin or Gorucho Marx.. sing and
dance and celerate your life. Take your bliss to hospitals, and use it to cheer up folks that really are dying, and are way more scared than you. Get
yer head out of yer navel and start looking for Goddess in your fellow humans. The best way to get your mind of your own problems, is to focus on
helping somebody who is having a harder time than you. Go play with terminally ill children for a while.. volunteer to hold their hands and
read them stories.
-and can't see the light
>except in moments of bliss--but that's experience not true transformation- It is transformation. the bliss is the evolution happening, incrementally
in bursts.. each burst clears a little more karma..
Hope it helps.. Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator. Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :) Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:15:19 -0500 From: LIGHHTNINGRODATnospamwebtv.net (debbie Robinson)
To: oriATnospameskimo.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: shakes
Message-Id:
Dear Ori, This seems to be on the increase almost everywhere we turn. For
instance, it is a major phenomenon in Christian circles again (crops up about every 40 yrs or so).
Individuals and groups of all kinds are having spontaneous "outbreaks" . The
Quakers, in fact, were named for the same experience you describe. I've had it off and on for 25 yrs. Never in connection with spiritual
practice, however. If there was a common thread in the early years, it was that the shaking would occur just prior to meeting someone that
needed help or before encountering a dangerous or difficult situation. Along with the shaking would be a great sense of being infused with
power, clarity, insight, awe, strength...All the senses became heightened, as well. These days, it seems to be primarily for me. Not
long ago, I did some Reiki self treatment and started to tremble lightly, then over the next 14 hours, it became much more intense (quite
a scene). I could walk around somehow, but through wild flailing and jerking. It was actually kind of pleasant, not frightening. It
finally subsided and I headed for bed, slept for half an hour, and woke up in the midst of a major k surge. Felt and sounded like an atomic
power plant in my spine till dawn. I laid paralyzed with it, but again unafraid.
At many points, I felt like I was being made love to from the inside out- incredible..... I'm sure you'll meet many on the list who can
describe the purpose of this. I'm not sure I can yet, beyond what I've said. But, it's a wholesome
manifestation and may take you to some interesting places...enjoy Light & Joy,
Debbie Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 06:47:23
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent To: Mike Stickles
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: RE: pompous manifesto:Sex and intelligence.
Message-Id:
At 14:00 03/12/97 -0500, Mike Stickles wrote:
>Just a few things that hit me...
>Interesting - in my experience, I've seen no correlation >(my experience is from the "very bright" rather than the
>"highly sexual" side). Very bright folks are often clever enough to hide their sexuality, and
not risk predjudice.
(Of course, I've been so >insulated from most prejudices that I had never even
>heard a racial slur until my first year of college). I find that kind of amazing.. but there was exactly one non-white child
in my elementary school.. so I found little racial predjudice growing up, but the sexual predjudices could be found as insults hurled from the lips
of children who did not even clearly understand what the words meant.. slut whore faggot dyke lezzie pervert.. I use the term "pervert" about my self
for the same reason modern homosexuals are using Hitler's pink triangle as a symbol of solidarity-community. Reclaiming.
>
> patriarchal, .. tend to hide the sacred > >power of sexuality under a lot of warnings and tabus
> >to keep the seeker controllable. (watch out for the > >snake!)
> >Could also be that the warnings and tabus were originally
>intended as "safety fences" - as you said, sexuality has >sacred *power*, and most of us have had experience w/
>power that we weren't ready for. Could and should and meant to.. yet Magdelene is still getting stones
thrown her way.. prostitutes are murdered by men who think of them as "disposable", gays are attacked by homophobic gangs, and the Pope flies to
overpopulated Brazil to try to stop repeal of the laws against birth control. Schoolchildren are getting aids, because their natural sexual curiosity
is taking them into places where they have not been prepared with education to understand the possible results of ther actions, or how to protect
themselves from disease and pregnancy. The "safety fences" are electrified barbed wire.. they kill.
>
>Interesting, tho, that you would think of Judaeo-Christian >religion as "sex-negative/repressive". Obviously, our take
>on permissible forms of sex and sexuality would be far >more restrictive than yours, yet I have definitely never had
>the feeling that I'm missing out on anything, or have to >repress any sexual desires.
You are fortunate: your sex drives fit neatly into your religion's limits.. whereas mine do not.. I was raised Roman Catholic, and gave it up
as a bad idea, partly because it's description of proper feminine behavior and desires did not describe my nature.
I am not alone in this.. and the saddest proof, is the high suicide rates of gay teenagers in rural Christian communities. Death and the threat of
hell, is less painful to them than living with the shame of who they are, from the perspective of their religion. They cannot change their sexual
orientation, they cannot repress the surges of teenage libido. So they die. God and Goddess are one, but my impression of the more masculine term is
tainted with scorn and repression of the feminine.. it seemed like all the problems of the world were always being laid at the feet of Eve and her
daughters. The love of the Patriarchal God seemed pretty conditional, to me.. in Goddess I find a Mother-image of unconditional love that I can
relate to better.
>A look only at the outer >practices might lead someone to think that my wife and
>I have a very limited sex life, but each position has within >itself a practically limitless variety and scope. I guess it's
>like Dr. Who's ship - the Tardis (did I spell that right?) - >the thing is way bigger on the inside than it looks on the
>outside. What looks like a small range of practices can >be explored for a lifetime without exhausting it.
Hmmm.. I think that goes for anyone's fetish.
I like the Tardis metaphor.. I'm a big Dr. Who fan.. and it has the suggestion of traveling outside of space-time.. the sacredness of sexuality.
...but a Tardis for a transvestite might be a pair of satin panties. Let me offer another metaphor:
Wheat is the number 1 foodstuff in North America. Most folks consume it as a large percentage of their diet. It is in nearly every processed food,
and a trip to a bakery or pasta bar will show the Tardis-like infinte variety of what nourishment can be had from this single grain.
Yet if you offer to take me to a bakery for lunch, you are offering me nothing but more hunger: I am allergic to wheat, for me it is a poison, not
a food... rhapsodise all day about the sweetness of the muffins, the crispness of the french bread... but please take me to an old fashioned
steak house that can make a good ceasar salad without croutons, if you really want to feed me.
> >When one man's wife complained that he was neglecting
>their sex life, and he refused to stop neglecting it, they >excommunicated him!
Oy, let's hear it for divorce.. I wonder if his aversion to the missus
might have been due to homosexual tendencies..? What would the penalty for that have been, I wonder? Likely even harsher, I suspect.
We are all different, but patriarchal religion insists we are all the same, and must fit the mold or be broken to fit. Those that will never fit,
are discarded.. tossed into the fire.
> >Of course, I am part of a fellowship whose take on the
>roles of male and female, while still "patriarchal" in some >sense, is more concerned with mutual submission,
>service and respect than with "who's in charge."
** Elsewhere you wrote: > She seeks to serve me
>in the role defined by "Wives, obey your husbands... >for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the
>head of the church...". I seek to serve her in the role >defined by "Husbands, love your wives just as Christ
>loved the church and gave himself up for her...". Hers >is a service of obedience, mine a service of sacrifice.
>Because the service is willing and mutual, there is >no "oppression". I don't make demands on her that
>would be oppressive, because that would not be >consistent with sacrifice. She does not demand
>sacrifices of me, because that would be inconsistent >with obedience. We concern ourselves more with
>living out our own roles than with ensuring that the >other lives out their role.
This made me smile, coz my relationships are exactly the same, but the slaves are the obedient ones.. male and female both. I have female slaves,
too.. I think if a woman choses submission, she ought to be free to fulfill that role without being harrassed by feminists.
I am not submissive, or monogamous.. I am a polyamorous Dominatrix. It works for me! But our patriarchal society isn't made for it.. I will never
marry, because my realtionships don't go two by two.. I have spouses.. not spouse. To marry one would exclude the others. Polygamy is illegal.
> We concern ourselves more with >living out our own roles than with ensuring that the
>other lives out their role. This is civilized.. but historically, patriarchy has been VERY concerned
with ensuring folks fill the roles the church designed, and no other. IMHO, this is not respectful of the individual.. we are made in infinite variety.
The comment your wife made:
>My wife >thinks that this woman is denying her true nature and
>has no concept of the joys of submission. Is exactly what my slaves say to those who are concerned that they are
being oppressed. They are happy in their roles. I do not enforce their roles, they choose to fulfll them, and are astonished and delighted to have
found someone to fill them with.
>Maybe >the "repression" or "negative" aspects come from power
>struggle - when nobody's on a power trip, the problem >doesn't manifest.
I agree. Leadership is simply a functional structure. From wolf packs to football teams, corporations to ashrams, it is each individual fulfilling
their role that unites a group toward a single goal and makes it work cooperatively as a single organism.
Wolves need a good hierarchical structure for successful teamwork in hunting .. but every wolf is important to the pack.. to the success of the
hunt, and the species survival needs.. in this way they are all equal. Leadership is usually a service loop anyways.. leaders serve the people
they lead. I would argue that it is not inequality that causes distress, but rather
the individual perception of it. Insecurity. Folks being unhappy with who and where they are, in comparison to others. Competition, jealousy and
one-up-manship.. instead of co-operation. >
>P.S.S. - You've mentioned a couple of times about >some other mailing lists you're on. Would you be willing
>to list a few you find particularly enlightening, and diverse >enough to tolerate a Fundamentalist Christian mystic?
Off the top of my head, no... some lists that are tolerant, yes.. if the christian mystic part comes out more than the fundamentalism.. but if you
are looking for one specific to that.. no.. ask Gloria G. or Ruth. However, there are millions of lists in the world, I would suggest
searching thru Reference.com's 22000 lists and see if one suits you. http://www.reference.com/
>- in my experience as soon as I say I'm a Christian >they re-hear every sermon ever preached at them, in an
>instant - Yup.. I have mostly given up christian-bashing, live and let live.. for a
while I kept getting fundamentalist types responding to my website to tell me how evil I am..
What they were doing at my website in the first place puzzles me, as it is not that easy to find.. but then I threatened to post the nastiest
letters on my site, with the addresses, and it stopped... heh heh.. >
>P.S.S.S - Nothing actually, I've just always wanted to >get to three "P.S."s in one message :-).
> Good to live your dreams.. but isn't it P.P.P.S? Post Post Post Script?
Thankyou for your comments. Blessings, Mystress. >
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:14:19 +0200
From: "Visic" To:
Subject: Introduction Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BD00CF.ACB03020"
Hi
I just subscribed to the list. I thought I should introduce myself :) My name is Ivo Visic , I live in Johannesburg South Africa and I am 16 years old. Im not sure what else to say but if you want to know anything just ask :)
Love and Light
Ivo Visic
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal38" Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:16:56 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" To: Kurt Keutzer
CC: "Harsh K. Luthar" , kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-ID:
Of course, Ramana Maharishi had experiences of Kundalini! This is well Known. However, in his case Self-Realization took place through a
spontaneous self-enquiry, and Kundalini experiences came later on. Kundalini Shakti *will* manifest according to Karmas of a Jnani. And He
or she will be wholly indifferent to such manifestations. After Self-Realization all the Siddhis and the Riddhis associated with
Kundalini Yoga are at the feet of the Sage but do not disturb his serenity. I did not say rising of the Shakti is inconsistent with Jnana
Yoga. Only that rising of the Shakti and breaking of Granthis need not be an antecedent to Self-Realization. After Self-Realization anything
may happen; what difference will it make to the state of a Jnani.
You may already know this but it should be clearly stated that the Amrita Nadi that Ramana Maharishi spoke of *does not* connect the
Sahashara and the Psychic Heart Center of Kundalini Yoga. It is a much deeper and a more subtle connection between the Sahashara and the
Spiritual Heart where the mind is absorbed in deep sleep and in Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi. On that point there is much confusion as only Kevala
Nirvikalpa Samadhi reveals the Self and hence this knowledge. Having experienced the Kundalini Shakti and its manifestations in the Psychic
Heart Center, in the Sahashara and the absorption of the Shakti in the Spiritual Heart, I can very plainly make those distinctions. These
distinctions, however, can only be understood by adepts and advanced students.
Harsh
Kurt Keutzer wrote: >
> > Ramana Maharshi is an interesting case. He describes his ``amrita nadi'' at > the heart to the sahasra - and he appears to have felt that his subtle
> anatomy was at least coincidental with his realization. The classical > upanishads make many references to the subtle anatomy is well.
> > There is a recorded lecture with Swami Muktananda in which someone asks ``
> if Ramana Maharshi didn't have kriyas and all this kundalini stuff why do > they?'' Muktananda apparently gets mad and notes that he personally knew
> that Ramana Maharshi did have manifestations of kundalini. I think it is > clear from his journals that even the ``jnani'' Krishnamurti did as well.
>
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