1997/11/24 22:49
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #766
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 766
Today's Topics:
Re: Fw: Enjoy . . . [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Fw: twaddle [ jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner) ]
RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
RE: Another perspective [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven [ Daniel James Giszczak <danjgATnospamengin. ]
Urddhvareta [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:12:12 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Enjoy . . .
Message-ID: <1331738092-1946665ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
you wrote:
>> Dear Sharon,
>> Please forward this to the K forum. I will not ask you to forward
>anything more - thanks
>> for your help.
>>
>> Lobster
>> The Chocolate Ritual
<snip>
Thanks for sharing this with the list, it is a hoot!
My favorite line, mark of a true chocoholic:
>> HP: I am the strength of the candy rack, and the piece that fell on the
>> floor
>> but looks like it may not have gotten too dirty...
<snip>
>we say unto you, "N-E-S-T-L-E-S, Nestles makes the very
>> best."
>>
>> ALL: Chooooooooc-laaaaate
Am I the only one who remembers "Farfel" the puppet dog saying this and
then clamping his big carboard mouth shut at the end?
As it happens I read this post not too long after munching on a handful of
chocolate-covered almonds. Sychronicity! (what are the odds?... heh).
mocha-chocalotta ya-ya,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:25:46 -0600
From: jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fw: twaddle
Message-Id: <199711242125.PAA24442ATnospamns2.icon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Of course. But perhaps we need to remember that The Great Randi, science,
>religion, this list, your postings, and mine, as well as just about
>anything else including your favorite grocery store, all faithfully follow
>Sturgeon's Law which states, "90% of everything is crap." :-)
...and, Jeanne's definition of twaddle: Someone else's ideas, writings, or
other expressions.
I have a similar one for cults: Someone else's religious, political, or
social group.
Jeanne
==-* My stars!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:33:37 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
Subject: RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB216265BATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ruth - I wouldn't get worked up about shows like that.
IMHO, they are coming from the perspective that the
"supernatural" is by definition bunk, and are confirmed
(in their own minds) in this belief by the hordes of fake
"psychics" out there who are just out to make a buck.
So, they probably see what they are doing more as a
"public service announcement", similar to warning the
elderly about scams designed to get their money. The
networks are happy to run them since they are catchy
enough to get decent ratings and sell advertising.
Most of the people I've met who I discern to have true
abilities or gifts (as opposed to those who are fakes,
self-deluded, or who have potential but don't recognize
the limitations of what they do/will/might have) do not
call attention to themselves and are highly unlikely to
participate in things like Randi's challenge or these
TV programs. In general, the greater the talent or gift,
the lower the profile that person maintains - though
there are always exceptions. So the people who put
these things together are not likely to ever meet the
people who could shake their certainties (of course,
even if they did, they might find some way to wiggle
out of the need to change their minds).
Most people I know who do believe in paranormal or
supernatural abilities have been exposed to plenty of
stuff like this, but brush it off. I look at it this way (in
major over-simplification):
1) If you've had your own experiences, stuff like this
will irritate or amuse you, but not change your mind.
You already know differently.
2) If you're holding an anti-supernatural bias, these
shows just confirm you in what you already believed.
Again, nothing changes.
3) If you're uncertain of how the "supernatural" fits
into reality but are open-minded, a show like these
might increase your skepticism but is unlikely to
completely close your mind. At best, you'll look
more carefully at the claims made by people, but
not prejudge. Maybe I'm naive in that, but I really
believe that those whose hearts and spirits are
drawing them towards communion with God will
not be derailed by a few skeptics, no matter how
slick or convincing the presentation. Something
in their hearts will remind them that there is more
out there than what science can measure and
label. They may hesitate or backtrack, but their
own spirit will bring them back to the path. At
least, that's been my experience (first- and
second-hand).
- Mike
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:31:09 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971124140618.16571B-100000ATnospamuhunix3>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Mike: What a carefully worded reply to my letter..Thank you.
> Ruth - I wouldn't get worked up about shows like that.
> IMHO, they are coming from the perspective that the
> "supernatural" is by definition bunk, and are confirmed
> (in their own minds) in this belief by the hordes of fake
> "psychics" out there who are just out to make a buck.
> So, they probably see what they are doing more as a
> "public service announcement", similar to warning the
> elderly about scams designed to get their money. The
> networks are happy to run them since they are catchy
> enough to get decent ratings and sell advertising.
Cannot help but concur with this...
> TV programs. In general, the greater the talent or gift,
> the lower the profile that person maintains - though
> there are always exceptions. So the people who put
> these things together are not likely to ever meet the
> people who could shake their certainties (of course,
Perhaps it comes down to fate or karma to be in the right place to
get the right input, and be evolved sufficiently that one
gets ones own experience of the supernatural. It is also true that what
one sees in the universe is oneself .. like the dog barking in the hall of
mirrors ... when the dog himself barks, all the dogs bark. What one
believes is inevitably what one sees.
You have given me a new perspective on this.. I guess I was not thinking
of the limited understanding of so many. But isn't it time this was
debunked too.. or is the debunking actually happening? Even 5 years ago
I never heard of a western doctor prescribing acupuncture to patients, and
now I hear of it all the time!
What you say about not advertising if one is good is true.. but that may
not be because of modesty, but of fear of getting the government or the
crazies on your back. I have agreed to be in a short segment on TV with
some of my friends called "Touched by an Angel" in which we talk about
helping people like "angels". I have been helping people over the
internet so they wanted to interview me about this... the show airs
tonight and I am freaking out.. I hope no one sees it! I am scared to
death. I know now what it means to come out of the closet!
I am a closet healer! There... phew it feels good.
> - Mike THANKS
Ruth
******
Your whole life is a cyclone of change, of changing scenes, changing
colors; but just in the middle of the cyclone there is a silent center.
That is YOU. (Osho)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ruth Trimble email:<trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
http://166.122.32.61/trimble/
*****
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:04:16 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Another perspective
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB21645EDATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
Harsh stated it better than I did...
>The proper approach is to take a balanced view
>of things and not get overly attached to the
>*desire* to experience visions. (emphasis mine)
My personal experience with visions and experiences
of telepathy, etc, is that they are as often illusions as
they are accurate (counting only those which are
"testable", of course). Often the times when I have
had them correspond to when I have been working
through a "rough spot" in my meditation, prayer or
other spiritual practice but have not yet "broken
through." If I allow myself to get distracted by these
things, I invariably wind up starting all over again to
work through the rough spot I was dealing with - and
usually after a fairly long delay of "wasted" time (It was
a lesson, so it's not totally wasted, but you know what
I mean). So, if I'm in prayer and suddenly everything in
the room seems surrounded by brightly colored auras,
I take just a moment to see if this might relate to
anything I was praying about - if not, I just say "that's
neat" and return to prayer. Looking in retrospect, I
don't see that these experiences correspond at all to
my spiritual advancement, purity, etc - not even to
whether or not I ate pepperoni pizza last night :-).
When I have received a vision or other experience
*apart* from other spiritual work, it has almost
invariably been shown to be accurate (sorry I didn't
make the distinction clear in my first note). So, to
continue the analogy, if I'm just going about the
house and suddenly everything in the room seems
surrounded by brightly colored auras, I take more
notice and try to discover what it could mean.
To use a real example, seven times in my life I have
received what seemed to be a "word of prophecy"
as charismatics call it. Of the four times I received
one while not in prayer or meditation, two were
later confirmed (the other two were not of a type
that could be strictly confirmed, though they proved
useful to those who received them). The three
received while in meditation or prayer were later
proved false (Fortunately, for some reason I kept my
mouth shut about those three :-).
I have a few friends who have also had experiences
with visions, prophecies and the like, and theirs have
been quite similar to mine. Those others, though,
are also evangelical Christian charismatics, so there
may be a "cultural filter" applying to this.
Of course, if you are deliberately working on the
development of psychic abilities, divination skills or
whatnot, that's a different matter, but I tend to leave
that one alone here since my beliefs treat many of
these as forbidden. I'm sure I'm in the minority on
that, at least on this list, so I probably wouldn't have
much to say that would be considered helpful.
- Mike Stickles
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:13:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
Subject: RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971124195526.13911D-100000ATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I think Mike offers an extremely insightful comment. Historically,
genuine spiritual personalities do not lay much emphasis on psychic
abilities and treat them for what they are; passing phenomena involving
engagement of subtle senses rather than gross senses. For one who has seen
the image of God in his/her own heart, in the core of one's being, what
inclination would there be to set up shop doing psychic readings or any
other kind of readings. What glamor would exhibitionism hold. What Psychic
powers would such a person exercise! What could such a person possibly do
except teach love, preach love and be love.
Harsh
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Mike Stickles wrote:
>
> Most of the people I've met who I discern to have true
> abilities or gifts (as opposed to those who are fakes,
> self-deluded, or who have potential but don't recognize
> the limitations of what they do/will/might have) do not
> call attention to themselves and are highly unlikely to
> participate in things like Randi's challenge or these
> TV programs. In general, the greater the talent or gift,
> the lower the profile that person maintains - though
> there are always exceptions. So the people who put
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:40:46 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
cc: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971124152058.5128A-100000ATnospamuhunix3>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Harsh.. I hope you are not so harsh as your name!
> I think Mike offers an extremely insightful comment. Historically,
> genuine spiritual personalities do not lay much emphasis on psychic
> abilities and treat them for what they are; passing phenomena involving
> engagement of subtle senses rather than gross senses. For one who has seen
> the image of God in his/her own heart, in the core of one's being, what
> inclination would there be to set up shop doing psychic readings or any
> other kind of readings. What glamor would exhibitionism hold. What Psychic
> powers would such a person exercise! What could such a person possibly do
> except teach love, preach love and be love.
Perhaps that in these abilities you are waking others to LOVE.. who knows?
But I do not know how to do this unless on already loves on some cosmic
level. Perhaps some can do that. I know I cannot.
My teacher said that these powers were "gold bricks" on the road to
enlightenment. If you stoop down to pick them up, you will be too heavily
burdened to get on with your journey. In Hindi they are called siddhis. My
guru had them without even knowing. Just in the exertion of his will, he
created miracles, such as a tree branch due to fall on top of someone,
that he averted and it fell to the side against the laws of gravity.
I think it is about balance as in everything. If that is the sole focus of
ones life, attaining these powers, then there is not really a spiritual
goal in mind. I believe it can be part of a spiritual path as has been
mentioned before. My own personal use of my psychic abilities,some of
which I discovered only recently, has helped a few people including my
own family. I do it with love and respect for their sovereignty and free
will. I do not do it for everyone. I am also learning how to use it.
I see it as a tool. It is useful and helps me be calm and clear about
things I might otherwise be upset about. For example, I always know if
something is going to happen to me or not the minute that I write it on my
calendar! This means I am not disappointed when it does not happen. Over
the years this ability has helped me learn to trust my intuition. I do
feel that even the greatest saints would applaud the development of
intuition.
I remember a saying I heard: If the master is standing in
front of a man with an automatic gun who wants to kill him, what would he
do? Answer: Nothing. He would not be there in the first place.
Surely this means that his psychic ability would have warned him that such
an eventuality would be about to occur in a certain place and he would be
automatically going elsewhere that day.
This thread is very useful for me at this time.
Thanks
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:49:23 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <347A35AB.5AFBATnospamcamtech.net.au>
Harsh Luthar wrote:
>
> For one who has seen the image of God in his/her own heart, in the core of one's being, what inclination would there be to set up shop doing psychic readings or any other kind of readings.
......... possibly the inclination to work in absolute service to God.
To work with whatever God provides as tools of service. To honour God
through the gifts given in Grace for the purpose of bringing God's love
into daily life. To love and to serve others.
What glamor would exhibitionism hold?
..........If exhibitionism is part of anyone's service it may be a tool
for provoking change. Judgement of another's path is an egoic not Godly
quality.
> What Psychic powers would such a person exercise!
...........Those that invite God into our hearts, inspiration into our
minds, hope into our despair, change into our lives, compassion into our
souls, beauty into our dreams, love into our being.
>What could such a person possibly do except teach love, preach love and be love.
............For those who have seen, invited or hold God permanently in
their heart, all they do in their lives, they do for God. They bathe
their baby for God. They hug their children for God, they smell a
flower for God. They inspire, reach out, and give to others in whatever
way is available to them. I know an old bag lady who does nothing but
collect litter in the streets for God. I know an architect that designs
houses, schools and medical centres for God. These people radiate the
most amazing love. They don't have to teach it or preach it. They are
"it" by example, surely the best way to spead the word of God. One of
the things I do is give readings for people...for God.
Love, sue
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:53:50 -0800
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <347A75FE.71B9ATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
Dear Ruth. That was a wonderful pun. It put a smile on my face!:-) Harsh
or (Harsha to be more proper) is a Sanskrit term. My name is pronounced
Her-sha or Hersh. It means Joy. And I hope that puts a smile on your
face:-).
Ruth Trimble wrote:
>
> Dear Harsh.. I hope you are not so harsh as your name!
>
> > I think Mike offers an extremely insightful comment. Historically,
> > genuine spiritual personalities do not lay much emphasis on psychic
> > abilities and treat them for what they are; passing phenomena involving
> > engagement of subtle senses rather than gross senses. For one who has seen
> > the image of God in his/her own heart, in the core of one's being, what
> > inclination would there be to set up shop doing psychic readings or any
> > other kind of readings. What glamor would exhibitionism hold. What Psychic
> > powers would such a person exercise! What could such a person possibly do
> > except teach love, preach love and be love.
> Perhaps that in these abilities you are waking others to LOVE.. who knows?
> But I do not know how to do this unless on already loves on some cosmic
> level. Perhaps some can do that. I know I cannot.
>
> My teacher said that these powers were "gold bricks" on the road to
> enlightenment. If you stoop down to pick them up, you will be too heavily
> burdened to get on with your journey. In Hindi they are called siddhis. My
> guru had them without even knowing. Just in the exertion of his will, he
> created miracles, such as a tree branch due to fall on top of someone,
> that he averted and it fell to the side against the laws of gravity.
>
> I think it is about balance as in everything. If that is the sole focus of
> ones life, attaining these powers, then there is not really a spiritual
> goal in mind. I believe it can be part of a spiritual path as has been
> mentioned before. My own personal use of my psychic abilities,some of
> which I discovered only recently, has helped a few people including my
> own family. I do it with love and respect for their sovereignty and free
> will. I do not do it for everyone. I am also learning how to use it.
> I see it as a tool. It is useful and helps me be calm and clear about
> things I might otherwise be upset about. For example, I always know if
> something is going to happen to me or not the minute that I write it on my
> calendar! This means I am not disappointed when it does not happen. Over
> the years this ability has helped me learn to trust my intuition. I do
> feel that even the greatest saints would applaud the development of
> intuition.
> I remember a saying I heard: If the master is standing in
> front of a man with an automatic gun who wants to kill him, what would he
> do? Answer: Nothing. He would not be there in the first place.
>
> Surely this means that his psychic ability would have warned him that such
> an eventuality would be about to occur in a certain place and he would be
> automatically going elsewhere that day.
> This thread is very useful for me at this time.
> Thanks
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:14:39 -0800
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <347A7ADF.55CAATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
I think your teacher is absolutely correct. As I said before, visions
and superconscious states are natural and not inconsistent with the
spiritual path. However they are not relevant to attaining God
consciousness. It is not true that all great masters use psychic powers
to protect themselves. They do not consider the body to be the self.
Take the example of Jesus. His love for humanity was so great that he
refused to defend himself in any way saying only in the end that "Father
forgive them for what they do..." Great Sages know the past and the
future including the time of their physical departure. They do not act
in any way to hinder it considering it a triviality. Miracles do happen
spontaneously in the presence of such people but such things are not
intentional. They are in response to the faith of devotees. A focus on
Psychic powers and the craving for such experiences are normal for
novices. People have to go through various stages. God bless everyone
with all that is best in life.
Harsh
Ruth Trimble wrote:
>
> Dear Harsh.. I hope you are not so harsh as your name!
>
> > I think Mike offers an extremely insightful comment. Historically,
> > genuine spiritual personalities do not lay much emphasis on psychic
> > abilities and treat them for what they are; passing phenomena involving
> > engagement of subtle senses rather than gross senses. For one who has seen
> > the image of God in his/her own heart, in the core of one's being, what
> > inclination would there be to set up shop doing psychic readings or any
> > other kind of readings. What glamor would exhibitionism hold. What Psychic
> > powers would such a person exercise! What could such a person possibly do
> > except teach love, preach love and be love.
> Perhaps that in these abilities you are waking others to LOVE.. who knows?
> But I do not know how to do this unless on already loves on some cosmic
> level. Perhaps some can do that. I know I cannot.
>
> My teacher said that these powers were "gold bricks" on the road to
> enlightenment. If you stoop down to pick them up, you will be too heavily
> burdened to get on with your journey. In Hindi they are called siddhis. My
> guru had them without even knowing. Just in the exertion of his will, he
> created miracles, such as a tree branch due to fall on top of someone,
> that he averted and it fell to the side against the laws of gravity.
>
> I think it is about balance as in everything. If that is the sole focus of
> ones life, attaining these powers, then there is not really a spiritual
> goal in mind. I believe it can be part of a spiritual path as has been
> mentioned before. My own personal use of my psychic abilities,some of
> which I discovered only recently, has helped a few people including my
> own family. I do it with love and respect for their sovereignty and free
> will. I do not do it for everyone. I am also learning how to use it.
> I see it as a tool. It is useful and helps me be calm and clear about
> things I might otherwise be upset about. For example, I always know if
> something is going to happen to me or not the minute that I write it on my
> calendar! This means I am not disappointed when it does not happen. Over
> the years this ability has helped me learn to trust my intuition. I do
> feel that even the greatest saints would applaud the development of
> intuition.
> I remember a saying I heard: If the master is standing in
> front of a man with an automatic gun who wants to kill him, what would he
> do? Answer: Nothing. He would not be there in the first place.
>
> Surely this means that his psychic ability would have warned him that such
> an eventuality would be about to occur in a certain place and he would be
> automatically going elsewhere that day.
> This thread is very useful for me at this time.
> Thanks
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:14:58 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu
CC: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>, Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <3479D22F.2206ATnospamintercomm.com>
Harsh Luthar wrote:
>
> Dear Ruth. That was a wonderful pun. It put a smile on my face!:-) Harsh
> or (Harsha to be more proper) is a Sanskrit term. My name is pronounced
> Her-sha or Hersh. It means Joy. And I hope that puts a smile on your
> face:-).
Gloria Here:
Thanks for sharing that, we have the same name, mine is Gloria Joy.
>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:33:28 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu
CC: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>, Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <3479D685.EC8ATnospamintercomm.com>
Harsh Luthar wrote:
>
> I think your teacher is absolutely correct. As I said before, visions
> and superconscious states are natural and not inconsistent with the
> spiritual path. However they are not relevant to attaining God
> consciousness. It is not true that all great masters use psychic powers
> to protect themselves. They do not consider the body to be the self.
> Take the example of Jesus. His love for humanity was so great that he
> refused to defend himself in any way saying only in the end that "Father
> forgive them for what they do..." Great Sages know the past and the
> future including the time of their physical departure.
This is true, Gloria here:
Harsh what to you know about urdhava-retas?
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:38:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel James Giszczak <danjgATnospamengin.umich.edu>
To: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: 48 Hours -Skeptic HEaven
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.971124233633.26395C-100000ATnospambergh.ummu.umich.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I think Mike offers an extremely insightful comment. Historically,
> genuine spiritual personalities do not lay much emphasis on psychic
> abilities and treat them for what they are; passing phenomena involving
> engagement of subtle senses rather than gross senses. For one who has seen
I've found that if I try to work on making such an ability
dependable, my logic and my memory begin to falter, and I realize that
my intuition had already degraded much before memory and logic.
Dan
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:32:27 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
cc: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu, Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Urddhvareta
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971124192211.17516A-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Gloria and Harsh:
IT is when I read this list I find out so much of what I have learned in
the past 18 years of seeking.
Urddhvareta (please correct my spelling Hindi speakers) is the energy I
experienced coming up from the sexual organs through the belly and up
through the body. As it rose up, it bestowed intense orgasmic delight.
I believe it to be the the ojas or light/life force in the ovaries which
creates the egg in females or from the testes in men that creates the
sperm and contains that vital force which creates a child when both are
put together. Thus it is verily the LIFE force itself and in the
urddhavreta it does not go down into biological function, but it slowly
through practice and meditation and a lot of grace, moves up inwardly
through the body. This is the state that ones sees in many sages from
India whose eyes are rolled upward into the head I assume they
experience this same bliss. I also believe from my experience that the
ascent of this life ojas to the 3rd eye
allows the soma juice to drip into the back of the tongue
This is something that yogis yearn for.. and some have their tongue
tethers cut so that the tongue may reach back behind the nose to taste the
soma there...
This is what I understand from my experience... what do others know of
this?
> This is true, Gloria here:
> Harsh what to you know about urdhava-retas?
Ruth
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