1997/11/11 12:22
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #745
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 745
Today's Topics: RE: dante?/Angelique-Help anyone?? [ Dieter Dambiec ]
The Awakening Heart [ M ] Re: Monksville or Bust [ M ]
Re: The Awakening Heart [ "Debora A. Orf" ] Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:45:45 +1100
From: Dieter Dambiec To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
Subject: RE: dante?/Angelique-Help anyone?? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----Original Message----- From: dante rosati [SMTP:danteATnospampop.interport.net]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 1997 7:58 AM To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: dante?/Angelique-Help anyone??
>> Perhaps there is none, only the soul experiencing, not for lessons >>>>already learned, but simply for the joy of being, in the infinite
>>>>multiplicity of the present moment.
Reality Check!! please.
Whole quest of spirituality is the desire for experience not of multiplicities but Oneness. Otherwise what the heck are we talking about. Multiplicity is quite obvious - one does not have to go very far to achieve it. It is the ordinary condition. It is simply the state of the sense perception and sense perception is basically limited. Anybody can see/experience the multiplicity of the present moment simply by reliance on senses.
The soul is experiencing because there is ego perception which relies on large part on senses alone. Such perception is very limited. It is just ordinary day to day life. When the senses become refined because they are imbued with a higher oversight brought about by longing for the Great and saturation of higher tendencies, the senses actually become calmer and controlled and the higher levels of the mind see things in a different way. In its simplest form this results in immediate compassion for the human race and precedes forth with a desire to do something great for others as well. These are all just manifestations of the subtle mind progressing not be overly concerned with sense perception and its utterly limited position.
A person can be dictated by their senses. But God can't be dictated by anything. God has blessed each person with a wondrous thing -- your mind. The nature of this thing, this mind, is that as it thinks so it becomes.
The mere thought of anything immediately creates an impression on the mind. Actions of course do the same thing.
So what can be done very conveniently when doing any action so that a higher impression is created? Simply take the ideation of God so that the course of the mind is devoted to that achievment. Otherwise if that is not done then action and reactions related to the material world will arise - whether good or bad - subtle or crude.
Can one opt out and say they will do only good actions so as to escape bad results (or more scientifically only do sentient actions so as to escape the impact of crude force/results by not doing such actions). Theoretically maybe, but everything in the relative world has its limitations and ultimately the heart or desire is to merge with the Supreme Consciousness so that limitations are transcended and totaliy achieved.
That is no void, nor is it a cessation. Cessation implies time concept. Time is a limitation. Beyond time, space and person/form is the Universal Nucleus. No relative words can describe that to its fullest. Nothing is ended and nothing is begun - the Infinite just is. Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 22:35:25 -1000 (HST)
From: Daniel Wallace Collins To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Message-Id:
how do you strenghten healing energies and resize cone?
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:28:59 -1000 From: "Stephen P. Lanzo"
To: indra , cgiajwATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Monksville or Bust Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Hello Aaron:
Very honest expression of your feelings about becoming a Monk for the purpose of developing your Kundalini and your chakras.
I could not resist responding to your request and I do so with deepest sincerity. From my experience of living in a monastery and also in the
world I found that it is the real world joys, pains, etc. that create the chakras to open. For me the chakras represent energy wheels
associated with different aspects of life. When they are closed it is because of pictures /experiences that we do not want to look at and
these pieces of energy get stuck in these chakras and they remained closed. You can just see it in someones body, the blocks and closed
energy flow. Having monitored breath-work sessions I experienced and saw peoples tremendous rage, anger, etc. being released from their lower
chakras. It is only in the real world that we can avail ourselfs of such experiences.
My recommendation Aaron is to try some breath workshops, private healing sessions with master teachers of energy openings, etc. for a few years
before ceiling yourself up in the monastery. Again, thanks for your sharing.
Sincerely, Steve Lanzo
Honolulu, HI. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 03:26:52
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent To: acarreATnospamconcentric.net
Cc: Gloria , kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone??
Message-Id:
At 02:38 11/11/97 -0500, acarre wrote:
>Gloria, >
>Gloria wrote:
> >We are what we want as Angelique said Gloria.
Thankyou.. >
>But if ones becomes the Reality dreaming this world, why would he want >to change anything to what we created? You also have to accept what you
>are really, before behind able to change anything. >
>Just surrender to what you want to be, and you'll find out more who you >are.
Follow your bliss.. Goddess makes what is best for you, irresistable to you.. She is Kind, that way.. focus on what you love, follow your heart and
your nose.. your curiosity. >
>As simple as that, you can make it hard or easy, on this path, as you >wish.
>
>You said in another post, latter: >>I would like to beleieve that pain is at least a message, however so
>many just don't seem to get it. Have you ever sat around and said, why >me? why now? and the only answer you can think of is why not me now? How
>does this make more god, tho?? were you not already god before the pain >happened? what is this more and expanding concept
Yup.. and Bliss got Boring. Goddess knew it would, and provided your being with this fabulous
option: A challenge: go as far from bliss as possible, into unawareness and duality, and find your own way back to bliss again.. but in a physical
body. Cool game, you thought, and looked forward eagerly to the challenge, even tho you knew that the first thing that would happen after you are
born, when you are most helpless, you would be held suspended upside down by your ankles and spanked till you cried.
As Antione says.. that is how the game is played: >
>Pain is an interesting archetype, it brings focus and concentration in >one aspect of us. I calls for awareness. It sucks it, its all it want
>attention... Until a new centrifuged awareness, "consciousness", born >from the call of pain, stays around for a while, to taste the after
>pain.
> >I like "cosmic" orgasm more than pain; personal choice. :-)
> >Love
>Antoine >
> We have what we like and what we don't like, but sooner or later, it
comes we must learn to Love Everything Unconditionally. Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator. Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :) Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 02:40:46 From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
To: Dieter Dambiec Cc:
Subject: RE: dante?/Angelique-Help anyone?? Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>> Mystress Wrote: >>>>> Perhaps there is none, only the soul experiencing, not for lessons
>>>>>already learned, but simply for the joy of being, in the infinite >>>>>multiplicity of the present moment.
At 23:45 10/11/97 +1100, Dieter Dambiec wrote:
>Reality Check!! please. >
>Whole quest of spirituality is the desire for experience not of multiplicities but Oneness. Otherwise what the heck are we talking about.
> When the senses become refined because they are imbued with a higher
oversight brought about by longing for the Great and saturation of higher tendencies, the senses actually become calmer and controlled and the higher
levels of the mind see things in a different way.
We are talking about the same thing O argumentative one.. how many levels of the mind, to get to Oneness? Multiple levels, many perspectives.. all in
the potential reach of the present moment's awareness... How many can you surf up thru while doing dishes?
This is the "multiplicity of being", the many perspectives of higher awareness on the path to enlightenment... that is we are speaking of.. not
sensory impressions of normal reality, as you so distainfully suggest. If you had been following the thread, you would know that these
statements were made in response to someone who is troubled by spontaneously experiencing Oneness, sometimes concurrently with physical
reality. Has that ever happened to you? It certainly is a "reality check". I hope you are Graced with one, soon.
Blessings, Mystress.
... Another offering of scorn, for one who says he appreciates it.. smell the roses?
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator. Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :) Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 22:51:22 +1100 From: Dieter Dambiec
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
Subject: RE: dante?/Angelique-Help anyone?? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----Original Message-----
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent [SMTP:mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com]
This is the "multiplicity of being", the many perspectives of higher awareness on the path to enlightenment... that is we are speaking of.. not
sensory impressions of normal reality,
[>] Ok I get the point.
spontaneously experiencing Oneness, sometimes concurrently with physical reality. Has that ever happened to you?
[>] Frankly, the physical reality didn't mean much because pervaviseness of vibrations of Grace of an utmost Kind just Was.
Dieter
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:23:17 -0500 (EST) From: CGIAJWATnospamaol.com
To: mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Re: Monksville or Bust
Message-ID:
Howdey Mistress,
I hear ya. The real issues I'm dealing with are a reached barrier in my own life. By not going into a monestary I feel like I'm hidding from myself.
I've reached a barrier of what I can't learn without the help of someone much more advanced than myself. I've come to the conclusion that I'm
blocking my own ability to get a job, not because I'm not skilled, but because it's not what my life path needs. Going to a monestary allows me not
to hide. I hide myself at work, in society, hiding what goes on within me because people think your crazy if you tell them what's up. I know what my
spiritual path is, I just can't get on the path itself. I don't think a monestary life is any less social or real than a job and an apartment. I'm
not seeking vows of silence, I'm seeking the intensive leasons and instructions I need. I feel I can't progress any further until I acknoledge
my spiritual life, as the goal of my life. Hidding in an office, and having no time to meditate doesn't help me at all. I need to go to a monestary to
find myself again, I like me alot when I find me.
All in all, thanks for your words of concern. I promiss to keep my wits about me no matter where I go.
If you know of places to I can look to get the advice and instrution I need,
to get the sense of a spiritual life, to do what I was born to do, please let me know.
Have a fun day
:) Aaron
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:17:24 -0500 From: "Harsh K. Luthar"
To: CGIAJWATnospamaol.com CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: K-Religions Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Aaron, I trained to be a monk for many years. My Kundalini awakening was
extremely sudden and happened in normal waking consciousness when I was 18. For many years I suffered and had to struggle to normalize the
Shakti through prolonged meditations and advanced pranayama. Being part of a spiritual community and the guidance of a teacher helps. But after
being in the field for 34 years (I started at the age of 7) I would caution you. I have seen many sincere students disillusioned by the
corruption of spiritual teachers. I have also seen spiritual novices with little to no spiritual experience posing as Gurus. Many people are
fascinated by the workings of the shakti and are attracted to exhibitionists who pretend to go into samadhi and so forth. If your
aspiration is genuine and for enlightenment than your path lies in a different direction. Read conversations with Ramana Maharishi and
reflect carefully. Pray for guidance.
Harsh K. Luthar
CGIAJWATnospamaol.com wrote: >
> Howdey All >
> I'm seriously thinking about devoting much of my life to my spiritual quest. > The best way that I can think of doing this is to actually become a "monk",
> living within an ashram/temple/spiritual society and either working outside > and paying a rent or working for the center itself.
> > What I could really use are the names of various religions and centers that
> concentrate on developing the chakras and Kundalini. Many of the religions > that I know that deal with K also have a huge section of the religious
> practice being devotional worship to various deities, ext. I'm looking for > religions which lets the devotional aspect take a back seat to the chakras
> and K, or at least concentrate on the connection of the worship to the > chakras/K.
> > Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
> > Thanks, and have a nice day
> :) > Aaron
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:35:58 -0600 From: destinyATnospamcyberramp.net
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone??(Mary Ezzell)
Message-Id: Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Mary, you wrote :
>Vision today in the grocery. Of ... this world being a place where heavenly
>beings split up to have different kinds of love.
>Mary
[ Big Smile ]
Your comments remind me of a wonderful song....
LOVE
Love is real
Real is love Love is feeling
Feeling love Love is wanting
To be loved
Love is touch Touch is love
Love is reaching Reaching love
Love is asking To be loved
Love is you
You and me Love is know-ow-ing
We can be
Love is free Free is love
Love is living Living love
Love is needing To be loved
- John Lennon
(From The John Lennon Collection CD)
Love to all...
John bill beaudineDate: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:14:41 -0500
From: David Hodges To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Monksville or Bust Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:23 AM 11/11/97 -0500, CGIAJWATnospamaol.com wrote: > I've come to the conclusion that I'm
>blocking my own ability to get a job, not because I'm not skilled, but >because it's not what my life path needs. Going to a monestary allows me not
>to hide. I hide myself at work, in society, hiding what goes on within me >because people think your crazy if you tell them what's up.
no time to meditate doesn't help me at all. I need to go to a monestary to
>find myself again, I like me alot when I find me.
Hi Aaron, I'm not trying to talk you out of what you want to do, but I do want to
go on record that it IS possible to work in an office and be yourself. In fact, office life is an excellent place to learn how to separate your true
self from society's expectations of you. I work in an office and while I'm not crazy about it, it doesn't hinder me spiritually at all. I still find
time to meditate, every day, for at least an hour. When you really want to do it, you will make time for it. Also I have deliberately cultivated a
reputation for being a bit of an eccentric. People don't expect normal behavior of me at all and so they don't burden me with a lot of stuff. You
say "hiding in an office doesn't help you at all" and you are right, if you are indeed hiding. Why not gloriously exist in an office? One of the things
I learned, painfully, is the immense value of always telling the truth. Now, at work, you can find diplomatic ways to tell the truth, you don't
have to shoot arrows at everyone, but just letting others know where you stand is good and you might find unexpected allies in unlikely places. Most
people in office life are secretly somewhat unhappy anyway, and they welcome and rally around someone who acknowledges that.
So, people at my office know I meditate, know I do yoga, they know how I feel about certain of our customers, they know I write poetry, they know I
resent being labelled as a computer geek, etc., etc. My inspiration was certain gay people I knew at a former job who courageously came out of the
closet at work...such a brave, healing thing to do. Spiritually it will be very good for you, if you are serious about your
spiritual path, to own it and live it everywhere. Don't blame the office for holding you back.
David
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:16:33 -0800 (PST)
From: M To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: The Awakening Heart Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I want to recommend a popular and easily obtained paperback since it is mainstream >>AND relates to kundalini (without saying so). How rare. It is
Betty Eadie's The Awakening Heart: My continuing journey to love.
I discovered it in the supermarket and I have found companionship in it. Her previous book, Embraced by the Light was a lot more fundamentalist
Christian than this one (so far - - - I am only 1/4 into it). Her brief descriptions:
of seeing lights, of her vibration's effects on electronic equipment and on other people,
of her too rapidly developing esp, etc., etc.
will be familiar to many on this list.
I was please to read that she had asked that certain of these gifts be diminished and they were.
Have any of you read it (and between its lines)?
M
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) From: M
To: "Stephen P. Lanzo" Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Monksville or Bust Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:28 PM 11/10/97 -1000, Stephen P. Lanzo wrote: > It is only in the real world that we can avail ourselfs of
>such experiences. >
I think our list membership demonstrates this as well. What percentage of us
opened our chakras in monastariries? Less than 1% is my guess.
However, if that is what Aaron is drawn to, perhaps it is where he should head..., ya know?
M
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:51:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Debora A. Orf"
To: M cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: The Awakening Heart Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, M wrote:
> > of her vibration's effects on electronic equipment and on other people,
i can relate to this line WAY too well when the lightbulbs start frying
around my house. What exactly is going on with the electrical stuff? my poor computer! is it K out of balance or bursts of it or what? Luckily
this hasnt happened for a while, but i noticed a period of frequent burnt bulbs.
Is this normal?
thanx!
--dao
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:04:25 -0500 From: Mike Stickles
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: RE: The Awakening Heart
Message-ID:
Debora, I think it's normal (or at least, not necessarily abnormal) and
might not be necessarily related to K. We went through a couple of periods when light bulbs were going "pop" regularly, but the first time
it was always the same light fixture - we got rid of it and the problem went away. The second time, it was a given batch of bulbs - once they
were gone, the problem was gone too.
On the other hand, the body's EM fields can definitely interact with those of electrical equipment. Best example I know of is the battery
powered wristwatch. A friend back in Florida did an informal study - in conjunction with a friend of hers who did some experiments with more
rigorous scientific controls - and discovered that battery-powered watches interfered with muscular strength, coordination, and even
problem-solving ability. Wind-up watches had no discernable effect. They did find that some people experienced very little effect - usually the
same folks who complained that their watch batteries burned out in half the time. The effect was very pronounced with me - and my batteries
usually last at least twice as long as advertised.
Anyway, the point is that, such an interaction could be greatly influenced by K (especially imbalances), among other things. So, it
might have been K effects popping your light bulbs. Or it might not. Lots of things to consider.
- Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Debora A. Orf [SMTP:dorf01ATnospammail.win.org] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 10:51 AM
> To: M > Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com; kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
> Subject: Re: The Awakening Heart >
> On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, M wrote: >
> > > > of her vibration's effects on electronic equipment and on
> other people, >
> i can relate to this line WAY too well when the lightbulbs start > frying
> around my house. What exactly is going on with the electrical stuff? > my
> poor computer! is it K out of balance or bursts of it or what? Luckily > this hasnt happened for a while, but i noticed a period of frequent
> burnt > bulbs.
> > Is this normal?
> > thanx!
> > --dao
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:18:21 -0500 From: Mike Stickles
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID:
I haven't read it yet, but will - thanks for bringing it to our
attention. I'm especially interested to see her "more fundamentalist Christian point of view", since that's where I come from,
philosophically. The mention of:
of her vibration's effects on electronic equipment and on other people,
has me intrigued, since that was happening to me quite a bit ten years
ago when I was more consistent in my spiritual practice, esp. meditation. Mostly it was traffic lights changing when they normally
wouldn't, and a couple of street lights that would go on or off as I passed (one did so every workday for over 2 months straight). The
reminder has me wondering if that might be similar to what I've been going through the past week or so - whenever I'm in a supermarket things
occasionally seem to fall off the shelf towards me (7 incidents in 4 shopping trips). Wonder why I hadn't thought anything of it before now?
- Mike
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:32:57 -0800 From: onarresATnospaminreach.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: The Awakening Heart
Message-Id:
Dear K'ers,
M wrote:
>It is Betty Eadie's The Awakening Heart: My continuing journey to love. I
discovered it in the supermarket and I have found companionship in it. Her previous book, Embraced by the Light was a lot more fundamentalist
Christian than this one (so far - - - I am only 1/4 into it). Her brief descriptions:
> of seeing lights, > of her vibration's effects on electronic equipment and on other
people, > of her too rapidly developing esp,
> etc., etc. >will be familiar to many on this list.
I reply:
True all of these things she describes will be familiar to the list people.
However, I have my doubts about Ms. Eadie. In her first book, she stated that she asked about reincarnation and was told there is no reincarnation.
Other parts of the book really put me off as well. I finished the book with tongue in cheek.
She has refused to give the hospital's name and location as well as the
doctor's name who treated her, and whom could verify her experience. There is absolutely no way to check out her story of the NDE that she describes.
I for one, am quite skeptical about her. Anyone who has been through the NDE experience would welcome another person checking into the facts. She
spins a good yarn, but I am hesitant to believe her. Ms. Eadie does not appear (at least to me) as a sincere person. Anyone can read tomes and
write a good story, but that doesn't make it true. She has made a great deal on money from the books, plus her guest appearances, and I would say
that was her agenda all along. We all have the right to make a dollar from our work, that is true, but we don't have the right to fool the public,
which is what, in my honest opinion, is exactly what she is doing. Besides, I received no positive vibration from the book which to me - is a good
indication that what I am reading leaves a lot to be desired. Anyone can garner information from a vast array of books now in print and write a
beautiful story... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Sorry to deflate your balloon dear M, but I can't go along with her story. If you want some very honest true facts of living through a NDE, and what
really went on, try reading Spiritual Awakenings, Barbara Harris Whitfield. Now there's a book that I feel is really the factual experience of a K
awakening, even though she didn't have any idea of what was going on. Again, my opinion...
M wrote:
>I was please to read that she had asked that certain of these gifts be diminished and they were.
I reply:
I would imagine so, I don't think she could have live up to them.
>Have any of you read it (and between its lines)?
Last reply:
Oh yes, that is the reason for this reply! I am not advocating that anyone
should not read the book, all I am saying is: Be your own judge, hey - I may be all wrong, it has happened many times before. It's just a feeling
anyway. love ' light dor
>
> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:02:04 -0800 (PST)
From: M To: onarresATnospaminreach.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: The Awakening Heart
Message-Id:
At 10:32 AM 11/11/97 -0800, onarresATnospaminreach.com wrote:
> In her first book, she stated >that she asked about reincarnation and was told there is no reincarnation.
>Other parts of the book really put me off as well.
Like you, I was turned off by a lot of her descriptions, but they were created from or for her filter - that is personality, perspective,
experiences, ability to grasp beyond those, etc. And, on a certain level there is no reincarnation...we just keep going and growing...in and out of
bodies. She was not ready to hear that. In this next book, she seems a bit closer.
>Sorry to deflate your balloon dear M, but I can't go along with her story.
> I am not advocating that anyone >should not read the book, all I am saying is: Be your own judge, hey - I
>may be all wrong, it has happened many times before. It's just a feeling >anyway. love ' light dor
dor, the two statements immediately above seem to contradict one another...in tone at any rate.
Like I said, I am finding the second book closer to my own experiences and
think others might too. Lots I needed to overlook still as well. I am nonetheless glad to see even a hint of K in a mass media book, you know what
I mean? I thought it refreshing that she did not label it or analyze it or make is oh so very special and exclusive. Just a gift to try to use in the
most beneficial for all manner, you know what I mean?
Thanks for the tip on the Whitfield book. I'll get a copy.
M
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