1997/06/16 11:22
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #276
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 276
Today's Topics:
K and yoga
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #272
Love and lust
Re: Love and lust
Re: Love and lust
Re: Love and lust
Re: Love and lust
Re: Risposta: Sweeping the World
Reflection
Re: Love and lust
Re: Love and lust
Kabbalah/qabalah and chakras
?
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: K and yoga
Message-Id: <199706151754.KAA25300ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I loose track of this sometimes but I think we should remember that
Kundalini was responsible for the development of Yoga. Sometimes on this
list it seems we think that the reverse is true. It can happen that way to
individuals - - - their practice of Yoga gets their K rising. However, it
is widely believed that Yoga came from Kundalini. K expressing itself in
spiritual individuals kyrias and then those being imitated by others in
hopes of acquiring their gifts.
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:48:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: RNSComputeATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #272
Message-ID: <970615144848_-2066136806ATnospamemout14.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-06-13 03:08:42 EDT, you write:
>
> On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, David Bozzi wrote:
>
> > CGIAJWATnospamaol.com wrote:
> >
> > > This has always been a stumbling point for me, does bliss exsist in
this
> > > mindless state, also if no thought exsists, is one concious of being
in
> this
> > > state?
> >
> >
> > One is aware of Consciousness.
> >
> > One is aware that One is Consciousness.
> >
> > Bliss is Consciousness.
> >
> >
> >
> > Peace to You
> >
> >
My experience is that the 'mindless state' is bliss.
Regards & Love,
Robert
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:16:08 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Love and lust
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970616021608.006641f0ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello K-ites,
A friend of mine, a close friend, is a graduate student in a scholastically
rigorous and respected college in Oregon, USA. She told me today that in a
group of women with whom she has worked on projects for several terms, were
talking yesterday and they all agreed that penises are ugly, disgusting, and
repulsive. She robustly disagrees. She tells me that she taught her
daughters that penises are holy things that were made for God's purpose and
their pleasure as women - not ugly, but beautiful.
She further tells me that the first view seems to pervade the women's and
feminist movements with which she is acquainted.
I relate this, not out of some lascivious vicarious interest, but rather in
shock and concern.
I suggest there are profound implications.
All of you, please reply.
Sincerely,
Ken
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:45:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-Id: <199706160245.TAA16535ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:16 PM 6/15/97 -0700, Ken McFarland wrote:
>Hello K-ites,
>A friend of mine, snip
>talking yesterday and they all agreed that penises are ugly, disgusting, and
>repulsive. She robustly disagrees. She tells me that she taught her
>daughters that penises are holy things that were made for God's purpose and
>their pleasure as women - not ugly, but beautiful.
>She further tells me that the first view seems to pervade the women's and
>feminist movements with which she is acquainted.
>I relate this, not out of some lascivious vicarious interest, but rather in
>shock and concern.
>I suggest there are profound implications.
>All of you, please reply.
>Sincerely,
>Ken
My reply would be something along the lines of, "It's not so much what you
got but what you do with it." Someone's pulling your leg. Few women sit
around and judge men's body parts when we're bored. Men in general, sure.
A particular man's particular body part, maybe, but rarely.
If you're really worried about this perhaps there is some comfort in knowing
that there is surgery for the less than well endowed. Stop worring about it
and do something more constructive. There are NO profound implications.
Women have survived having their bodies evaluated for all of recorded
history. You'll survive. Really!
M
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:51:19 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
Cc: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970616035119.006b4ab4ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:45 PM 6/15/97 -0700, M wrote:
>If you're really worried about this perhaps there is some comfort in knowing
>that there is surgery for the less than well endowed. Stop worring about it
>and do something more constructive. There are NO profound implications.
>Women have survived having their bodies evaluated for all of recorded
>history. You'll survive. Really!
>
>M
Dear M,
Thank you for your insightful illustration of the problem. It was brave of
you to take the role of the protagonist.
Ken
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:01:19 -0400
From: imtgATnospamjuno.com (tg xxx)
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-ID: <19970616.000427.28758.5.imtgATnospamjuno.com>
Ken wrote about the penis implications....:
<<She tells me that she taught her>daughters that penises are holy
things that were made for God's >purpose and>their pleasure as women -
not ugly, but beautiful.
I guess it just depends on how you look at it or what you use it for....
just like drugs, money, the media, and penis's (what is the plural of
that BTW?) -- they can all be used for good or bad purposes. Guess your
friend just got in with a bunch of wemmen where they haven't been used in
a beautiful and kind way....
Let's hear it for the boys!
xxxtg
"Immorality is the morality of those who are having more fun than we are"
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgshome.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:39:54 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
Cc: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970616043954.006da110ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:45 PM 6/15/97 -0700, M wrote:
> Stop worring about it and do something more constructive.
Dear M,
I wish to apologize to you for my prior response. It was hastily made and
arose out of the pain of shame I experienced when I read your comments. I
wrongly interpreted them as being an attack against me personally.
My concerns have nothing to do with the size of my member nor the adequacy
of its performance. My concerns are that there seems to be a great deal of
animosity between some men and women, or visa versa, when I believe there
should be love. This animosity seems to be more noticeable in recent years.
The idea that a person finds the sexual organs of the opposite sex to be
ugly, disgusting, and repulsive suggests that there has been some sort of
trauma or abuse, or an environment that created negative messages about the
physical union of women and men. I believe the union of men and women should
be based on love and we should celebrate the beauty and incomprehensibly
exquisite design of them.
Sincerely,
Ken
Date: 16 Jun 97 10:20:34
From: Sen Ashanka/AIS spa/IT <Sen_AshankaATnospamAIS01.ais.it>
To: Max Prescott <sumacATnospamwin.bright.net>
Cc: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Risposta: Sweeping the World
Message-Id: <9706160925.AA3591ATnospamAIS01.ais.it>
Content-Type: Text/Plain
Dear Colleayn,
-------------You wrote----------------
>I think there are many great souls who have come into the world. Each
>have something to teach us. I believe that the era in which they
>incarnate into also has something to with what they come into teach and
>what message is found by the people. .......
Yes, you are right, every age has its own teacher and as times change the Lord
incarnates in many forms to teach people the new way.
I got sort of carried away when I wrote about Gandhi and claiming that there
can never be another like him. Sure, there would not be any like him, but there
would be more of his stature in different circumstances and different messages.
Do tend to get jugdemental and sentimental at times !
Cheers and love to all
Ashanka
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:18:12 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
CC: genius-LATnospamnewciv.org, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
Swiszczowski <SteveSwiszATnospamaol.com>,
"Garden (the)" <thegardenATnospamworld.std.com>
Subject: Reflection
Message-ID: <33A57554.629DATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Just as our attitude towards others is reflective more of us than of
them. When we realise that people only really talk of themselves or of
their interpretation (still them) we may become very still and watch the
mind chatter.
When we become a little clearer our opinion of ourselves as existing
becomes lessened. We may then hold up all kind of mirrors as part of
ourselves but equally for purposes of reflection. We may be derided or
praised, understood or not. A whole range of possibilities may arise.
Wisdom is holding up the right mirror at the right time. The idea of no
right and wrong is a possibility that when implemented prematurely
creates mirrors that may progress some and hinder others.
Who or what I know does not effect your knowing until you hold up a
reflection of you.
E Jason
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:59:58 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-ID: <33A57F1E.72FFATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Ken McFarland wrote:
> >If you're really worried about this perhaps there is some comfort in knowing
> >that there is surgery for the less than well endowed. Stop worring about it
> >and do something more constructive. There are NO profound implications.
> >Women have survived having their bodies evaluated for all of recorded
> >history. You'll survive. Really!
> Thank you for your insightful illustration of the problem. It was brave of
> you to take the role of the protagonist.
>
> Ken
That was a good answer, Ken :)
I remember attending an alternative health care course. A course that
had been only for women. At one point (in conformity with some political
agenda) the tutor advocated that women find access to a (I think it is
called a specula) clear plastic tube device to observe the colour
changes of their vaginas. She suggested it would make an ideal Christmas
present or Birthday present. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong people. All
she did was alienate a lot of people (the whole class of men and women)
who respected her. It is very important to understand your audience.
All part of the human body are beautiful. The body in the forms of
living and dying invoke our deepest emotions. It is no mistake that in
understanding our mind/bodies, we unlock many doors. Look, contemplate,
visualise, explore these images:
If you really want to know what you are like make notes. You will be
surprised at what comes up . . . (Be honest, should (think or feel) is
not the issue)
blown up child
couple copulating
slaughtered innocents
naked beauty
diseased human
sexual organs
pathetic cripple
human face
open body
eye
What has this to do with kundalini? Everything.
DO NOT TURN YOUR FACE AWAY
WHERE YOU LOOK IS SPIRIT
WHERE YOU CAN NOT
SPIRIT IS THERE TOO
Most Kind Regards
Lobster
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:42:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Love and lust
Message-Id: <199706161442.JAA28163ATnospamdfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com>
Ken, I think I am answering your question in a roundabout way when I
again say how amazed and delighted I am to find that kundalini has
sacralized sex and all its activities, equipment, juices, etc., etc. I
do think the disgust means something sad. I also think disgust and
resistance of all kinds are like big arrows that say "enter and look
around in HERE, what you'll find will astound you!" Most women I have
known and worked with at some deep level have rage at men. This is
necessary to uncover but boy is it a mistake to get stuck there. Holly
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:30:01 -0400
From: phillialATnospamucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu (Anita Phillips)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Kabbalah/qabalah and chakras
Message-Id: <199706161529.KAA14632ATnospammail.execpc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jennie L.,
I found this listserv four days after the most ecstatic experience of my
life--a month ago! I had read about of kundalini a very long time ago and
only that recollection allowed me to give the experience a name and thus do
an Alta Vista search and buy every paperback I could find on the subject.
However, what I wanted to say--somewhat circuitously--in response to your
message is that my experience was preceeded by six months of
not-particularly-disciplined meditation. During the hour preceding my
kundalini experience, I was having bodywork done and curiously spent much
of the hour on the table watching the most spectacular, giggle-happy chakra
show I've ever seen!
To the point, for several years prior to my beginning meditation, I've been
interested in Jewish mysticism--pre-modern Hassidic rabbis and Kaballah. I
can't pretend to know a great deal or to have read all there is out there
to read. However, from the little that I have read I have begun to suspect
that Kabbalah is an eastern import--that out of diaspora (Jews were in
Babylon and who-knows-where-else a very long time!!), "wandering Jews"
returned to the Mideast and Europe with adopted notions of chakras,
kundalini, etc., which were transformed and grafted onto Jewish tradition.
I don't think this is what Gershom Scholem--considered the 20th century
expert on Kabbalah--or Adolphe Frank--the 19th century authority--have to
say about about Kabbalah's origins; if I recall, they root Kabbalah in
Jewish tradition and culture--although not in the same ways. Both Frank and
Scholem are in agreement, I believe, about the approximate time Kabbalistic
ideas were introduced into Europe (a century or so after the year 1000
A.C.E.). Also, I believe that Scholem places the outer limit of Kabbalah's
possible origin well within the Common Era. Therefore, having looked a
"little bit" at some of the sides of the mystical question, I've
tentatively concluded that Kabbalah probably did not "spring from the head"
of a Jewish "Zeus!" I'm starting to wonder if all "mystical roads" might be
generally much the same and end up in similar "places"--going by written
descriptions and my own experiences! Can anyone help me/Jennie out here
with origins? (Any rabbis lurking out there?) [Sorry, I could be more
date-specific if I weren't relying on memory and if I had my sources in
front of me!]
As an aside, it is very interesting to me that since about a month ago,
when I was "blown away" unexpectedly by kundalini, I have been really
focused on the physical/biochemical, manifestations of the process. My
previous focus and interests in things spiritual had been pointed toward
developing a "right attitude of mind." My pendulum seems to be swinging
the other way--without, as yet, totally abandoning previous gleanings. It's
a peaceful, yet zippy, time for me! I'm just "saying NO" to stress!
(BTW--What Ed Jason had to say about chakras was very beautiful!)
Anita P.
***
Jennie L. wrote on Fri, 13 Jun 1997:
hello, I have been a list member for a month or so now and am
appreciative of the interest and information that is gained from the
list. I study the qabalah and meditate regurlarly. i have experienced
similar symptoms as many of you. i regularly see mentioned the chakras
of the middle pillar ritual which i understand is for balance and
harmony. but why do you not use the other chakras of the body in
meditative study : namely-
Binah,Geburah,Hod,Chokmah,Chesed,Netzach----also the sacral chakra lines
up with Yesod on the tree of life, the naval chakra lines up with hod in
color -orange on the tree of life but is placed to the left on the tree
and is balanced by netzach,the solar plexis chakra lines up with
Tiphareth in placement and color. The throat chakra lines up with
Daath,the brow chakra or third eye is not on the tree as i know it but
is studied in other exercizes, the crown chakra lines up with Kether on
the tree of life but this on the tree symbolizes joining with the god
head. I may be trying to combine two separate things here but the name
sephira and chakra seem to be used interchangably and i would appreciate
it if someone could explain the difference. thank you Sekhmet
------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:22:57 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: ?
Message-ID: <33A58481.73EBATnospammail.snet.net>
Is the process of thought
awareness?
(don't think before you answer)
DISCLAIMER!
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