1997/05/26 14:56
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #251
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 251
Today's Topics:
Re: focus
Re: focus
Re: focus
Mormon Guru departure . . .
Re: What is the "Inner Smile"?
Re: focus
Re: focus
Re: focus
Re: focus
current hurt feelings and misunderstandings
Re: focus
re: focus
Understanding (or lack thereof) Was Re: focus
Re: focus
Re: Understanding (or lack thereof) Was Re: focus
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:36:12 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970526103218.22960A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 May 1997 LionessATnospamtrust-me.com wrote:
> Lillemor replies to Aaron:
>
> If you think that I'm egoistic when I speak in conviction.....I just shake
> my head !
If you think that I'm egotistical when _I_ speak in conviction, I hope you
point out my foolishness and save me from further embarrassment.
> Thanks otherwise for the yelling at this very unethical Lobster.
> That guy is not only ignorant, but unethical and everything else then humble !
> I really wonder what list I subscribed to, and I can say that it doesn't feel
> like a safe place to share experiences that is about kundalini.
> Those powers is not yo play with stupid Lobster, and not with me eather.
HE is ignorant, HE is unethical, HE is the antithesis to all that is
humble! Look upon him friends, for he is the embodiment of all that is
foul in this _world of ours_! We must cast him out, for evil has no place
within the human experience! Darkness must be defeated, pain must be
hidden away, the unrighteous will be smitten!
Not even kundalini, the serpent, the tempter, the master of the abyss, can
be trusted... if left to its own devices it will bring up your hidden
fears and lusts and put them on display for all to see. You must control
it, fight it, don't let it get the upper hand! If you do then all is
lost... you will stop seeing differences and start seeing people!
Thank you my 'stupid' shelled friend, for you have removed my doubts. It
is unfortunate I did not find you sooner, I might have been saved the
price of a round trip ticket to Hell. ;-)
> I suggest strongly that people don't lash out there projections if we gonna
> have a conversation here - otherwise I will definitely not be long here,
> that's for sure.
>
> My humble oppinion that is grounded on
> profound and devotional spiritual work.
> Lillemor
Don't lash out our projections? Why... I thought that was the reason for
the list to begin with! Kundalini causes such things, you know. Don't
differentiate one projection from another. Attachments are attachments,
and all die painful deaths. It is inevitable. To quote those wonderfully
empty Star Trek fiends, the Borg: Resistance is futile.
"There is no good, there is no evil, there is only expression."
-excerpt from Ultimate Journey, by Robert Monroe
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust....be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father
which is in heaven is perfect."
-Matthew Ch. 5, New Testament
Someone else on this list (yogi tom or lobster, perhaps) defined humility
as the withholding of strength.
Read the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada. Multiple translations are
available on the web. You might want to skim the New Testament as well,
just for kicks. I recommend Stan Rosenthal's translation of the Tao Te
Ching for beginners, it seems to be somewhat easier to understand. There
are other texts on the net written/compiled by him as well.
My humble opinion that is grounded on ordinary and lazy spiritual
wanderings. Someone tell me if I'm being an ass. ;-)
I love you, Lillemor. You remind me of... me.
P.S. I hate myself and I wanna die. Can I borrow your chainsaw and cut
out the good parts for charity?
--
"I miss the comfort in being sad"
-Kurt Cobain
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:55:08 +0200
From: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <l03102803afaf99daad36ATnospam[130.244.119.29]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yogi Tom wrote:
>
>words without physical presence and sound of voices can be very
>misleading, especially when meant ironically......
>
Lillemor replies:
I repeat myself, Kundalini forces is not to be threated lightly,
and it takes a GREAT amount of ethic and seriously and
humble approach to treat, meet and discuss this forces.
We can't be ironical about it, it causes tremendous harm,
that is was causes the situation of the world and of our
beautiful Mother Earth today.
Lillemor
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:12:33 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, jeremiah cunningham <jeremiahATnospamouter.net>
CC: jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
Subject: Re: focus
Message-ID: <338A18E1.2225ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
jeremiah cunningham wrote:
> with all your knowledge and wisdom
> is there a way that you could rephrase
> some of your comments to these sisters, (and others)
> in a more positive way..
> your comments seem to contradict themselves
> and come across as somewhat arrogant
> i am sure you don't mean them that way
> and that you have much to offer..
> peace....
You are right of course.
I am arrogant enough to think I know the effect of what I am saying
So when Lillemor (who is lucky enough to have a head) says
"Yes, I guess you are out of step sweet lobster,
you have to stand for YOUR WORDS by yourself..............
you can't turn around in my head, sorry !!!"
she is of course right.
However what you are asking me to do is behave in a way you prefer. To
be spiritual in a way you can understand. To be nice to new guests and
forum members, to be kind and considerate. Qualities that I would
recommend to everyone and then behave with tantristic tantrum - how
strange?
My dear Friend you have offered me peace
so I shall return a piece
of my mind.
Let me explain what being positive sometimes may mean:
When we first engage in the spiritual path we are fearful and hesitant -
what are we engaged in? Can we trust these thoughts and people?
As we progress we learn that it is our behaviour and goodness that is
important. We do good and see that as we smile and are postive, these
qualities are enhanced and our life takes on a joy and abundance. As we
progress we are less and less concerned with our own evolution and
encourage and nurture others growth just as we were once encouraged. As
we progress we understand that the gardener must not only encourage
growth but must also prune and cut back weeds.
Different aspects of ourselves are at different parts of this process
and gardeners are different. Some share their knowledge, some only
plant. Some only prune and take on the hardest jobs. We are all
gardeners and this forum is our garden. In it we share what we have and
in peace and mutual caring we question and nurture. So when you see
someone throwing others on the bonfire, know that our Sisters are of the
nature of the phoenix and it is only the feathers of pride that have
been singed and know too that no one may stoke the fire who is not also
the fuel . . .
Of course this may just all be an excuse for inexcusable behaviour . . .
Most Kind Regards
Lobster (burnt to a crisp)
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:39:55 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, GlasmeowATnospamaol.com
Subject: Mormon Guru departure . . .
Message-ID: <338A1F4B.43C7ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
GlasmeowATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Hi everybody!
>
> Because of a cross-country move, a change in ISP, and getting a new e-mail
> address I'm going to have to have to temporarily un-subscribe from the list.
>
> It's been a lot of fun, and I've learned a lot.
Please do come back and good luck with all the changes going on.
> I'm curious about how many people are on this list. It seems like, in the
> short time that I've been participating, only about ten or twelve people have
> made regular postings, and many of them only in response to someone else's
> posting.
There were 230 people last time Angelique our illustrious List Meister
posted us with this info.
> Are there really that few people that regularly contribute, did I just happen
> to hit a dry spell, or has everybody else already said everything that they
> have to say?
There are many lurkers here whose presence is felt in their prayers,
understanding and shared aspirations.
> I can't believe that you've been intimidated into silence by the
> micro-minority of spiritual cyber-bullies that I've run into lately. It seems
> that some are here playing guru because they love the attention and the sound
> of their own voice (or keyboard).Just remember that those that are truly
> under Kundalini's influence are too filled with love and acceptance to lash
> out at new ideas in fear.
Any pretensions to be a guru is soon dissuaded. However when people
provide us with light we become their disciples for that moment.
As for spiritual cyber-bullies, remember your pain and hardships and
know that was when you grew the most. Some of us deviants do not say
"have a nice day" for we are working for tommorrow . . .
> In order to make you feel more comfortable, however, when I re-subscribe in a
> couple of weeks I'll make it a point not to mention the M-----n Church, too
> much. I kept exploring that subject after originally bringing it up because I
> got so much positive response from so many of you, and the limits of this
> forum never seemed very clear to me. But since a few of you seem to be
> genuinely bored and/or threatened by spiritual experiences outside of your
> own narrow definitions (something that I'm used to in "organized" religion,
> but didn't really expect to find here), I'll try to stick to "orthodox"
> Kundalini, as soon as I can figure out just what that is.
"orthodox" Kundalini - most amusing - keep the humour.
> To David, Victoria, Larry, Sen Ashanka, Brenda, Gloria, Ori^, Robyn, Peggy,
> Sarah, Morgana, Ed (Lobster), susan, cen06681 (If that is your real name!),
> and (Last but not least),Yogi Tom, thank you for your generosity of spirit,
> and keep up your selfless contributions to the spiritual advancement of the
> planet. I am going to be reading and pondering your postings in my files for
> many days to come!
>
> Love to All!
>
> Ronnie Gee
When you come back we will expect you to be our guru. Make sure you are
prepared.
Good luck - you are most welcome here . . .
See you soon.
Most Kind Regards
Ed Jason
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:02:11 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
CC: jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
Subject: Re: What is the "Inner Smile"?
Message-ID: <338A2483.1060ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Dmitry Zayakin wrote:
> I've read one of the book about DAO. Am I correct in translating of the
> name?
Tao or Dao rhymes with bough
when the tree takes a bow
> This is a Chinese technique. There was mentioned an exercise named
> "Inner Smile", but wasn't described how to do it. Does anyone know how to?
I believe it is Manchek Ray who describes this technique. However I will
tell you a technique that has been handed down from the Yellow Empereor
(via the God of the Four Winds - pardon!)
It is called THE DAY OF A THOUSAND THANKS:
Wake up early and begin to thank all that gives you support and
maintains your being:
The ground for supporting you
the air for being there for you to breath
the sky for creating a space for you to be in
and so on smiling inwardly and giving thanks for all that comes your way
hey
this should be every day . . .
Most Kind and Thankfully
Regards Lobster
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:00:47 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970526115902.14112A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 May 1997 LionessATnospamtrust-me.com wrote:
>
> Yogi Tom wrote:
> >
> >words without physical presence and sound of voices can be very
> >misleading, especially when meant ironically......
> >
> Lillemor replies:
>
> I repeat myself, Kundalini forces is not to be threated lightly,
> and it takes a GREAT amount of ethic and seriously and
> humble approach to treat, meet and discuss this forces.
> We can't be ironical about it, it causes tremendous harm,
> that is was causes the situation of the world and of our
> beautiful Mother Earth today.
> Lillemor
Kundalini is responsible for the poor condition of the world? I always
thought ignorance was the culprit.
--
"I miss the comfort in being sad"
-Kurt Cobain
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:04:36 +0200
From: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <l03102804afaf9c19344aATnospam[130.244.119.29]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Maeror wrote:
>
>Don't lash out our projections? Why... I thought that was the reason for
>the list to begin with! Kundalini causes such things, you know. Don't
>differentiate one projection from another. Attachments are attachments,
>and all die painful deaths. It is inevitable. To quote those wonderfully
>empty Star Trek fiends, the Borg: Resistance is futile.
>
>"There is no good, there is no evil, there is only expression."
Lillemor replies:
There is expression with responsibility also.........
If the reason of the list is to lash out projections, I suggest
psychoterapy instead,
not using a mailing-list for those purposes.
Lillemor
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:26:23 +0200
From: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <l03102807afafa07d3c7eATnospam[130.244.119.29]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lillemor wrote:
>> I repeat myself, Kundalini forces is not to be threated lightly,
>> and it takes a GREAT amount of ethic and seriously and
>> humble approach to treat, meet and discuss this forces.
>> We can't be ironical about it, it causes tremendous harm,
>> that is was causes the situation of the world and of our
>> beautiful Mother Earth today.
>> Lillemor
>Maeror wrote:
>Kundalini is responsible for the poor condition of the world? I always
>thought ignorance was the culprit.
Lillemor replies:
I didn't say that kundalini was responsible.
I said that it takes a GREAT..............etc.
which means , it takes responsibility and ethic, otherwise people fall into
a ignorant way of handling these forces.
So what do we got in result ?
Wars!
Mutilation of the Earth !
Instead of looking within and facing what causes this, and using the
kundalini-forces to transform, instead of hurting, destroying......
yes, in ignorance, without responsibilty and ethic.
Lillemor
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:43:02 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: focus
Message-ID: <3389F5D6.4950ATnospammail.snet.net>
maeror wrote:
> If you think that I'm egotistical when _I_ speak in conviction, I hope you
> point out my foolishness and save me from further embarrassment.
I cannot save you from further embarrassment.
> Don't lash out our projections? Why... I thought that was the reason for
> the list to begin with! Kundalini causes such things, you know.
Now I thought ignorance was the culprit here!
> and all die painful deaths. It is inevitable.
Death is only painful to those who resist. Kundalini is
a purifying force that disintegrates the lies. If you love
the illusion, it will be painful. The one who survives
her fire does not die.
> Not even kundalini, the serpent, the tempter, the master of the abyss, can
> be trusted... if left to its own devices it will bring up your hidden
> fears and lusts and put them on display for all to see. You must control
> it, fight it, don't let it get the upper hand! If you do then all is
> lost...
Are you saying resist?
Is the one who advocates resistance the one who loves
the illusion that kundalini burns away?
She brings the hidden fears up to destroy them.
Would you rather keep them?
> Resistance is futile.
True. So why resist?
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: susan carlson <carlsonsATnospamrocketmail.com>
To: RocketBotATnospamrocketmail.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, RocketBotATnospamrocketmail.com
Subject: current hurt feelings and misunderstandings
Message-Id: <199705262103.OAA27203ATnospammta3.rocketmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
is it me or is the shakti doing housecleaning on many people's
emotional bodies? i for one, like the rules of the sandbox:
everyone shares the sandbox, no throwing sand, no jumping on other
people's sand castles, and say, "please, thank you , and i'm sorry."
kissing boo-boos is encouraged.
_____
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:06:43 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970526121456.3300A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 May 1997 LionessATnospamtrust-me.com wrote:
> Maeror wrote:
> >
> >Don't lash out our projections? Why... I thought that was the reason for
> >the list to begin with! Kundalini causes such things, you know. Don't
> >differentiate one projection from another. Attachments are attachments,
> >and all die painful deaths. It is inevitable. To quote those wonderfully
> >empty Star Trek fiends, the Borg: Resistance is futile.
> >
> >"There is no good, there is no evil, there is only expression."
>
> Lillemor replies:
>
> There is expression with responsibility also.........
> If the reason of the list is to lash out projections, I suggest
> psychoterapy instead,
> not using a mailing-list for those purposes.
>
> Lillemor
What's the matter, never heard of karma? Cause and effect? What goes
around comes around, threefold return the tale will tell? ;-)
Don't worry about our actions. That implies attachment. Attachment
causes suffering. Destroy it! Kill the self and be free as the Self.
Let us give an example. Lobster makes some statements that seem insulting
to you. You call him stupid, unethical, and the antithesis to humility.
Lobster was polite and circumspect in his response. I tend to be blunt,
hence my response. Cause and effect.
It's a beautiful system.
Kundalini is dangerous. It forces you to turn inwards and see something
more horrifying than you can possibly imagine... yourself. Sometimes
people on this list must express their pain in an environment where they
won't be judged by their peers. A place where they will instead receive
love and compassion.
I may be a bit of an ass, but I do feel love for the people on this list.
I don't know why, I simply do.
"In every loss, there is gain, as in every gain, there is loss."
I would endure any amount of suffering to know myself. Kundalini can be
helpful in the elimination of attachments. Does it hurt? Let it hurt
more. I will be relentless in my pursuit of... Self.
I love you, kundalini.
Good luck on your path, Lillemor.
--
"I miss the comfort in being sad"
-Kurt Cobain
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:15:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: re: focus
Message-Id: <199705262115.QAA22258ATnospamdfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>
This memorable weekend my boyfriend accidentally scalded me with nearly
boiling water a fraction of a second after I joked with him that he
might do this, I got a doozer of a migraine that has gone on for 2 days
and counting, an intense thunderstorm broke through the roof, wrecking
my ceilings and many of my clothes. Do I think this is related somehow
to the presence of active Kundalini in my life? You bet your booties I
do. For me, at least, bliss is always balanced by challenge. So I try
to be happy anyway. Love, Holly
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:30:08
From: David Mitchell <dmitchelATnospamcjnetworks.com>
To: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Understanding (or lack thereof) Was Re: focus
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970526163008.38efcd46ATnospammail.cjnetworks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:04 PM 5/26/97 +0200, you wrote:
>
>There is expression with responsibility also.........
>If the reason of the list is to lash out projections, I suggest
>psychoterapy instead,
>not using a mailing-list for those purposes.
>
>Lillemor
>
I have read and re-read this entire thread, from Sandy's original post and
your response to it, on through your message that I am replying to,
several times. I'm not a guru. I'm not a kundalini expert. I have been on
this list for several months now and have found it to be an invaluable
resource. I don't post often. I usually just lurk and learn. I have learned
at least something from just about everyone who has posted here. I'm going
to step out of lurkdom for a moment however, because I feel compelled to do
so. I may get flamed for what I am about to say, and if so, so be it.
Everything I have read from every poster involved in the "Focus" thread has
been, from what I can see, sincere. I must admit, that when I first read
Lobster's original message, I was surprised. His tone struck me differently
that what I normally get from what he says. I have now re-read his message
about 10 times and it strikes me differently that it first did. I can't
speak for him, but I must say that although what he said may have sounded
abrasive, it was meant in love.
I see misunderstanding in further reponses from many, not all, involved in
the thread. Perhaps some of those misunderstandings are mine...perhaps not.
This thread has, apparently, touched a nerve in many.
Some general comments.
I don't believe that there is a God of my understanding. For me to look for
one would be to pidgeonhole an unlimited being into my limited view. I do
believe that I am in God and God is in me.
Kundalini can be handled many ways. I don't believe that the handling of
Kundalini in any manner is responsible for any of the ills of the world. I
don't believe that Kundalini can be "handled" at all. I do believe that
Kundalini can be very beneficial or very harmful to the indivudual
experiencing her effects. I do believe that ignorance and small-mindedness
have caused the ills of the world.
A part of me wants to say "Please don't judge Lobster. Just read more of
his posts and over time you will come to appreciate his wisdom." Another
part of me wants to say "Lobster, you did sound judgemental this time. I
have never noticed you judge before, and so I have a problem believing that
is what you were doing."
Lillemor, the only name calling done or perjoratives uttered that I have
seen in this thread have come from you. Please stop. They do you and others
no good. You obviously have very strong convictions and I applaud you for
having them. However, please don't let them stand in the way of
appreciating what everyone on this list has to offer. We all have different
strengths. I have come to believe that Lobster's is to play the foil to our
foibles.
Sandy and Lillemor, welcome to the list. I hope you both are able to learn
and teach here.
In peace,
David Mitchell
----- ----- ----- -----
David Mitchell
dmitchelATnospamcjnetworks.com
An analog man trapped in a digital world
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:25:18 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
Cc: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: focus
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970526130821.10423A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 May 1997, David Bozzi wrote:
> maeror wrote:
>
>
> > If you think that I'm egotistical when _I_ speak in conviction, I hope you
> > point out my foolishness and save me from further embarrassment.
>
> I cannot save you from further embarrassment.
Smile.
> > Don't lash out our projections? Why... I thought that was the reason for
> > the list to begin with! Kundalini causes such things, you know.
>
> Now I thought ignorance was the culprit here!
Kundalini tosses up pain, you need to let go of it... wowee, a pain filled
message is spawned. :-)
> > and all die painful deaths. It is inevitable.
>
> Death is only painful to those who resist. Kundalini is
> a purifying force that disintegrates the lies. If you love
> the illusion, it will be painful. The one who survives
> her fire does not die.
For most people, ego goes down kicking and screaming. Renunciation is not
the easiest option in the West.
Any tips on letting go of the idea of a loving God?
> > Not even kundalini, the serpent, the tempter, the master of the abyss, can
> > be trusted... if left to its own devices it will bring up your hidden
> > fears and lusts and put them on display for all to see. You must control
> > it, fight it, don't let it get the upper hand! If you do then all is
> > lost...
>
> Are you saying resist?
> Is the one who advocates resistance the one who loves
> the illusion that kundalini burns away?
> She brings the hidden fears up to destroy them.
> Would you rather keep them?
Er. I guess I failed to convey sarcasm. ;-)
--
"I miss the comfort in being sad"
-Kurt Cobain
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:53:09 +0200
From: LionessATnospamtrust-me.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Understanding (or lack thereof) Was Re: focus
Message-Id: <l0310280aafafb6846985ATnospam[130.244.119.29]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 10:04 PM 5/26/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>
>>There is expression with responsibility also.........
>>If the reason of the list is to lash out projections, I suggest
>>psychoterapy instead,
>>not using a mailing-list for those purposes.
>>
>>Lillemor
>>
>I have read and re-read this entire thread, from Sandy's original post and
>your response to it, on through your message that I am replying to,
>several times. I'm not a guru. I'm not a kundalini expert. I have been on
>this list for several months now and have found it to be an invaluable
>resource. I don't post often. I usually just lurk and learn. I have learned
>at least something from just about everyone who has posted here. I'm going
>to step out of lurkdom for a moment however, because I feel compelled to do
>so. I may get flamed for what I am about to say, and if so, so be it.
>
>Everything I have read from every poster involved in the "Focus" thread has
>been, from what I can see, sincere. I must admit, that when I first read
>Lobster's original message, I was surprised. His tone struck me differently
>that what I normally get from what he says. I have now re-read his message
>about 10 times and it strikes me differently that it first did. I can't
>speak for him, but I must say that although what he said may have sounded
>abrasive, it was meant in love.
>
>I see misunderstanding in further reponses from many, not all, involved in
>the thread. Perhaps some of those misunderstandings are mine...perhaps not.
>This thread has, apparently, touched a nerve in many.
>
>Some general comments.
>I don't believe that there is a God of my understanding. For me to look for
>one would be to pidgeonhole an unlimited being into my limited view. I do
>believe that I am in God and God is in me.
>
>Kundalini can be handled many ways. I don't believe that the handling of
>Kundalini in any manner is responsible for any of the ills of the world. I
>don't believe that Kundalini can be "handled" at all. I do believe that
>Kundalini can be very beneficial or very harmful to the indivudual
>experiencing her effects. I do believe that ignorance and small-mindedness
>have caused the ills of the world.
>
>A part of me wants to say "Please don't judge Lobster. Just read more of
>his posts and over time you will come to appreciate his wisdom." Another
>part of me wants to say "Lobster, you did sound judgemental this time. I
>have never noticed you judge before, and so I have a problem believing that
>is what you were doing."
>
>Lillemor, the only name calling done or perjoratives uttered that I have
>seen in this thread have come from you. Please stop. They do you and others
>no good. You obviously have very strong convictions and I applaud you for
>having them. However, please don't let them stand in the way of
>appreciating what everyone on this list has to offer. We all have different
>strengths. I have come to believe that Lobster's is to play the foil to our
>foibles.
>
>Sandy and Lillemor, welcome to the list. I hope you both are able to learn
>and teach here.
>
>In peace,
>David Mitchell
Dear David,
I'm not judging anyone,
but I get real angry when someone tries to use the intellect in a
judgemental way,
that Lobster did, or trying to walk over me or someone else.
I think I have the rights to defend myself, when I or Spirit are defended.
I was actually chocked by the start of my participating of this list,
by Lobsters *way of welcoming me*.
Maybe I learned to defend myself even better by this thread.
Well we have to see what comes out of this, don't we.
I don't think my convictions stand in the way of seeing other people,
then they would not be any convictions that I would keep, then they would
not be as strong as they are either.
They have grown strong by a great amount of discernment, and witnessing
both myself and others.
In Love and Power,
Lillemor
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