1997/05/08 19:10
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #216
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 216
Today's Topics:
Re: a question for tom aston on enlightenment
Prozac alternative
Re: Prozac and K
Unidentified subject!
Unidentified subject!
Unidentified subject!
Unidentified subject!
Unidentified subject!
Enlightenment
Re: Prozac and K
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:21:32 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: a question for tom aston on enlightenment
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970508161542.7277A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Tom Aston wrote:
> In message <199705071702.KAA00295ATnospamf10.hotmail.com>, anita grayson
> <eiregrayATnospamhotmail.com> writes
> >Tom,
> > I remember the contronversy on enlightenment a while back.
> >What in the eastern terms is this state of being. The dictionary
> >says it is to give the light of fact and knowledge to; reveal truths
> >to; free from ignorance, prejudice, or superstition. Is this the
> >same thing?
> >
> > Anita
> if i knew the answer to this kind of question i would be enlightened
> which would probably mean i wouldn't answer at all......
Others seek assistance, so why not help?
> in practice though, i certainly know what enlightenment isn't !!!
Low fat cheese.
> my rough and ready view is that one should adopt the testing criteria of
>
> NO ENLIGHTENMENT
I know that a snake is not the rodent it eats... or is it?
> where there is hatred, anger or prejudice and intolerance and exclusive
> belief systems it is unlikely that there is enlightenment
Be wary when defining 'exclusive' belief systems.
For example, I do not believe in God. I believe in a creator, but not the
Creator. This excludes any possibility of me praying to a deity. I know
this to be correct, but also incomplete.
And yet, some believe in the Creator, and so my beliefs become
incompatible with theirs.
What is the common element? Love. Everything else is masturbation
(self-gratification).
"This is what you shall do: Love the earth and the sun and the animals,
despise riches, give alms to everyone that asks, stand up for the stupid
and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not
concerning God..."
-Walt Whitman
> where someone wants something from you in return for what they're
> giving, then there's no enlightenment
A penny for your thoughts.
> where love and acceptance are conditional upon you obeying someone's ego
> there is no enlightenment
Love is never conditional.. Love is. All the 'conditions' are simply
attachments. Some we brush aside as easily as cobwebs, and others are
like chains we cannot break. The difference is in perception alone.
> where there is no humour but only rules and rituals there is no
> enlightenment
Jesus Christ walked into an inn, handed the innkeeper three nails and
said, 'Can you put me up for the night?'
> where there is judgement and alienation there is no enlightenment
"It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances."
-Oscar Wilde
Just a poor joke, but I know of what you speak.
> where no one listens there is no enlightenment
Goes both ways. You cannot perceive enlightenment if you will not let
yourself.
> where people look but do not truly see there is no enlightenment
Damn, I lost a contact! ;-)
> when someone talks only to themselves there is no enlightenemnt
Hey, I have had some interesting conversations with myself! :-)
> where someone is determined to fix you even if you don't want to be
> fixed there is no enlightenment
"He is wrong, he is flawed, I must _change_ him!"
How can you see the attachments of another when you cannot see yourself?
> and if someone cannot handle awkward questions like yours,
>
> well......
>
> there is unlikely to be enlightenment....
How do you explain to someone what wine smells/tastes like when that
person has never smelled or tasted wine? A name is not a thing, a name is
a name.
> in general, i prefer wisdom to the term enlightenment, as this is
> something much easier to recognise and something there's a big shortage
> of, and which we can talk about and develop within our own lives little
> by little with no sense of something fixed like enlightenment....
>
> with wisdom we can all have our moments in the sun....
What is wisdom but knowledge of attachments? When no more attachments
remain, you are enlightened. True seeing, for no attachment binds you or
distorts your vision.
We, the unenlightened, do have attachments, thus we cannot see clearly. A
nice little catch-22. Attachments distort our perceptions, which means we
cannot be certain if someone is enlightened. To truly know we must lose
our attachments, which means we are enlightened. ;-)
> i'm not even sure we're ready for enlightenment yet, maybe if we can
> learn how to stop destroying and poisoning the environment, waging and
> preparing for wars, killing off species of plants and animals,
> exploiting our fellow humanity...
>
> then we might become able to recognise enlightened beings too and
> realise that this lofty state was much closer than we imagined....
>
> and suddenly see that well, maybe the buddha was with us all along.....
>
> and that without the whole following, individual enlightenment means
> very little...
Forget about that. That is attachment. Follow the path of least
resistance. One person alone cannot change the world. You are a part of
the whole, so be responsible for that part. You can do nothing more.
Individual enlightenment means little? What more can be done?
> so, ummm. who knows what enlightenment is.....but i sure as hell know
> what it ain't !
>
> any help ?
>
> Tom, The Riddler
Enlightened beings are aware, detached, and follow the path of least
resistance. Enlightenment is the end of suffering.
Part of that 'conclusion' is based on intellect. Emotions are somewhat...
odd for me at the moment. I seem to change every few hours... first a
kind of peaceful contentment where nothing can bind me, then I become
distracted and my emotions are a confused mix of sadness and anger.
Jason the Lost
--
"The acceptance of pain as a condition of joy is the symbol of conflict
within physical life existence."
-excerpt from Far Journeys, by Robert Monroe
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
"Every day people are straying away from church and going back to God."
-Lenny Bruce
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 21:25:02 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Prozac alternative
Message-ID: <33727CEE.3304ATnospammail.snet.net>
Anyone using prozac might want to consider a
safe, cheaper and nonprescription alternative
that has a large body of scientific research that
substantiates it is equally effective as prozac with
regard to mild to moderate depression.
St. John's Wort extract standardized to contain .3 to .5%
hypericin.
It acts similarly to synthetic antidepressants by preventing
serotonin re-uptake.
Serotonin is a calming neurotransmitter that is dominant at
nighttime.
Serotonin is also readily converted to melatonin. The master
timing hormone that induces sleep.
Fortunately, as normally is the case with natural alternatives,
side-effects are rare. Though fair-skinned people
should avoid bright sunlight as some experience temporary
sunburn like skin reactions.
Prozac is known to cause impotence.
Usual recommended doses are 3 capsules a day.
It usually takes a few weeks for its
antidepressant properties to work.
It also has proven anti-viral and antibacterial properties.
I take it at first signs of an oncoming cold.
Wards it off nicely.
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:30:44 -0800 (AKDT)
From: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Prozac and K
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970508172501.23636A-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 8 May 1997, Ken McFarland wrote:
> The new serotonin enhancing drugs act to raise the threshold for negative
> intrusive thoughts and negative self-talk. This allows the individual to do
> the work of psychotherapy - to form new, healthier ways of processing the
> events in their lives.
>
> Drugs without the intention of transformation may provide an escape from
> reality. The intention to work through problems and grow personally, aided
> by drugs, can be very effective.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken's left brain.
I might as well recommend Wellbutrin to those thinking of taking Prozac.
It takes effect more quickly, but likewise wears off more quickly. I
haven't heard any 'horror stories' about Wellbutrin yet.
Has anyone else heard of the study that showed Wellbutrin being very
helpful to smokers trying to kick the habit? Was a random effect that
appeared, much to the surprise of the medical community.
Jason's left brain. ;-)
--
"The acceptance of pain as a condition of joy is the symbol of conflict
within physical life existence."
-excerpt from Far Journeys, by Robert Monroe
"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
"Every day people are straying away from church and going back to God."
-Lenny Bruce
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:46:01 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'kundalini-LATnospamexecpc.com'" <kundalini-LATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <01BC5BF0.E2F99F60ATnospamBOB>
Those who are continually engaged in wordy arguments, in intellectual discussions, in theological wrangle, are only deceiving themselves. For the way to meet the Lord is only one, and it consists in uniting our consciousness with Nam.
Maharaj Charan Singh Ji
My email went crazy don't know if this was sent or not. Sorry in advance if this has already been posted.
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:54:15 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <01BC5BF1.FDBC18E0ATnospamBOB>
DEVI says:
0 Shiva, what is your reality?
What is this wonder-filled universe?
What constitutes seed?
Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms?
How may we enter it fully, above space and time, names and descriptions? Let my doubts be cleared!
SHIVA REPLIES:
Devi, though already enlightened, has asked the foregoing questions so others through the universe might receive Shiva's instructions. Now follow Shiva's reply, giving the 112 ways.
1. Radiant one, this experience may dawn between two breaths. After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out)-the beneficence.
2. As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves from up to down through both these turns, realize.
3. Or, whenever inbreath and outbreath fuse, at this instant touch the energyless energy-filled center.
4. Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped-in such universal pause, one's small self -vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.
5. Consider your essence as light rays rising from center to center up the vertebrae, and so rises livingness in you.
6. Or in the spaces between, feel this as lightning.
7. Devi, imagine the Sanskrit letters in these boney-filled foci of awareness, first as letters, then more subtly as sounds, then as most subtle feeling. Then, leaving them aside, be free.
8. Attention between eyebrows, let mind be before thought. Let form fill with breath-essence to the top of the head, and there shower as light.
9. Or, imagine the five-colored circles of the peacock tail to be your five senses in illimitable space. Now let their beauty melt within. Similarly, at any point in space or on a wall-until the point dissolves. Then your wish for another comes true.
10. Eyes closed, see your inner being in detail. Thus see your true nature.
bob
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:56:05 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <01BC5BF2.3FCFFDA0ATnospamBOB>
11. Place your whole attention in the nerve, delicate as the lotus thread, in the center of your spinal column- In such be transformed.
12. Closing the seven openings of the head with your hands, a space between your eyes becomes all-inclusive.
13. Touching eyeballs as a feather, lightness between them open's into heart and there permeates the cosmos.
14. Bathe in the center of sound, as in the continuous sound of a waterfall. Or, by putting fingers in ears, hear the sound of sounds.
15. Intone a sound, as a-u-m, slowly. As sound enters soundfulness, so do you.
16. In the beginning and gradual refinement of the sound of any letter, awake.
17. While listening to stringed instruments, hear their composite central sound; thus omnipresence.
18. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audibly as feeling deepens into this silent harmony.
19. Imagine spirit simultaneously within and around you until the entire universe spiritualizes.
20. Kind Devi, enter etheric presence pervading far above and below your form.
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:57:45 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <01BC5BF2.7B5A73F0ATnospamBOB>
21. Put mindstuff in such inexpressible fineness above, below, and in your heart.
22. Consider any area of your present form as limitlessly
23. Feel your substance, bones, flesh, blood, saturated with cosmic essence.
24. Suppose your passive form to be an empty room with walls of side-empty.
25. Blessed one, as senses are absorbed in heart, reach the center of the lotus.
26. Unminding mind, keep in the middle-until.
27. When In worldly activity, keep attentive between the two breaths, and so practicing, in a few days be born anew. Lakshmanjoo says this is his favorite.
28. Focus on fire rising through your form from the toes up until the body burns to ashes but not you.
29. Meditate on the make-believe world as burning to ashes, and become being above human.
30. Feel the fine qualities of creativity permeating your breasts and assuming delicate configurations.
31. With intangible breath in center of forehead, as this reaches heart at the moment of sleep, have direction over dreams and over death itself.
32. As, subjectively, letters flow into words and words into sentences, and as, objectively, circles flow into worlds and worlds into principles, find at last these converging in our being.
33. Gracious one, play the universe is an empty shell wherein your mind frolics infinitely.
34. Look upon a bowl without seeing the sides or the material. In a few moments become aware.
35. Abide in some place endlessly spacious, clear of trees, hills, habitations. Thence comes the end of mind pressures.
36. Sweet-hearted one, meditate on knowing and not knowing, existing and not existing. Then leave both aside that you may be.
37. Look lovingly on some object. Do not go on to another object. Here, in the middle of this object-the blessing.
38. Feel cosmos as translucent ever living presence.
39. With utmost devotion, center on the two junctions of breath and know the knower.
40. Consider the plenum to be your own body of bliss.
41. While being caressed, sweet princess, enter the caressing as everlasting life.
42. Stop the doors of senses when feeling the creeping of an ant. Then.
43. At the start of sexual union, keep attentive on the fire in the beginning, and, so continuing, avoid the embers in the end.
44. When in such embrace your senses are shaken as leaves, enter this shaking.
45. Even remembering union, without the embrace, the transformation.
46. On joyously seeing a long-absent friend, permeate this joy.
47. When eating or drinking, become the taste of the food or drink, and be filled.
48. 0h lotus-eyed one, sweet of touch, when singing, seeing, tasting, be aware you are and discover the ever-living.
49. Wherever satisfaction is found, in whatever act, actualize this.
50. At the point of sleep when sleep has not yet come and external wakefulness vanishes, at this point being is revealed. [Lakshmanjoo says this is another of his favorites.]
51. In summer when you see the entire sky endlessly clear, enter such clarity.
52. Lie down as dead. Enraged in wrath, stay so. Or stare without moving an eyelash. Or suck something and become the sucking.
53. Without support for feet or hands, sit only on buttocks. Suddenly, the centering.
54. In an easy position, gradually pervade an area between the armpits into great peace.
55. See as if for the first time a beauteous person or an ordinary object.
56. With mouth slightly open, keep mind in the middle of tongue. Or, as breath comes silently in, feel the sound HH.
57. When on a bed or a seat, let yourself become weightless, beyond mind.
58. In a moving vehicle, by rhythmically swaying, experience. Or in a still vehicle, by letting yourself swing in slowing invisible circles.
59. Simply by looking into the blue sky beyond clouds, the serenity.
60. Shakti, see all space as if already absorbed in your own head in the brilliance.
61. Waking, sleeping, dreaming, know you as light.
62. In rain during a black night, enter that blackness as the form of forms.
63. When a moonless raining night is not present, close eyes and find blackness before you Opening eyes, see blackness. So faults disappear forever.
64. just as you have the impulse to do something, stop.
65. Center on the sound a-u-m without any a or m
66. Silently intone a word ending in AH. 'Men in the HH effortlessly, the spontaneity.
67. Feel yourself as pervading all directions, far, near.
68. Pierce some part of your nectar-filled form with a pin, and gently enter the piercing.
69. Feel: My thoughty, I-ness, internal organs-me.
70. Illusions deceive. Colors circumscribe. Even divisibles are indivisible.
71. When some desire comes, consider it. Then, suddenly, quit it.
72. Before desire and before knowing, how can I say I am? Consider. Dissolve in the beauty.
73. With your entire consciousness in the very start of desire, of knowing, know.
74. 0 Shakti, each particular perception is limited, disappearing in omnipotence.
75. In truth forms are inseparate. Inseparate are omnipresent being and your own form. Realize each as made of Us consciousness.
76. In moods of extreme desire, be undisturbed.
77. This so-called universe appears as a juggling, a picture show. To be happy look upon it so.
78. 0 Beloved, put attention neither on pleasure or pain but between these.
79. Toss attachment for body aside, realizing I am everywhere. One who is everywhere is joyous.
8o. Objects and desires exist in me as in others. So accepting, let them be translated,(surrendered)
81. The appreciation of objects and subjects is the same for an enlightened as for an unenlightened person. The former has one greatness: he
remains in the subjective mood, not lost in things.
82. Feel the consciousness of each person as your own consciousness. So, leaving aside concern for self, become each being.
83. Thinking no thing, will limited-self unlimit.
84. Believe omniscient, omnipotent, pervading.
85. As waves come with water and flames with fire, so the universal waves with us.
86. Roam about until exhausted and then, drop-ping to the ground, in this dropping be whole.
87. Suppose you are gradually being deprived of strength or of knowledge. At the instant of deprivation, transcend.
88. Listen while the ultimate mystical teaching Is imparted: Eyes still without winking, at once be come absolutely free.
89. Stopping ears by pressing and rectum by contracting, enter the sound of sound.
90. go. At the edge of a deep well look steadily into its depths until-the wondrousness.
91. Wherever your mind is wandering, internally or externally, at this very place, this.
92. When vividly aware through some particular sense, keep in the awareness.
93. At the start of sneezing, during fright, in anxiety, above a chasm, flying in battle, in extreme curiosity, at the beginning of hunger, at the end of hunger, be uninterruptedly aware.
94. Let attention be at a place where you are seeing some past happening, and even your form, having lost its present characteristics, is transformed.
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:59:44 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <01BC5BF2.C1FABEA0ATnospamBOB>
95. Look upon some object, then slowly withdraw your sight from it, then slowly withdraw your thought from it. Then. Devotion frees.
97. Feel an object before you. Feel the absence of all other objects but this one. Then, leaving aside the object-feeling and the absence-feeling, realize.
98. The purity of other teachings is as impurity to us. In reality know nothing as pure or impure.
99. This consciousness exists as each being, and nothing else exists..
100. Be the Unisom same to friend as to stranger, in honor and dishonor.
101. When a mood against someone or for some one arises, do not place it on the person in question, but remain centered.
102. Suppose you contemplate something beyond perception, beyond grasping, beyond not being, you.
103. Enter space, supportless, eternal, still.
104. Wherever your attention alights, at this very point, experience.
105. Enter the sound of your name and, through this sound, all sounds.
l06. I am existing. This is mine. This is this. 0 Beloved, even in such know illimitably.
107. This consciousness is the spirit of guidance of each one. Be this one.
108. Here is a sphere of change, change, change. Through change consume change.
109. As a hen mothers her chicks, mother particular knowings, particular doings, in reality.
110. Since, in truth, bondage and freedom are relative, these words are only for those terrified with the universe. This universe is a reflection of minds. As you see many suns in water from one sun, so see bondage and liberation.
111. Each thing is perceived through knowing. The self shines in space through knowing. Perceive one being as knower and known.
112. Beloved, at this moment let mind, knowing, breath, form, be included.
Paul Reps
BobATnospamakasha.net
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 22:00:30 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Enlightenment
Message-ID: <3372853E.4C63ATnospammail.snet.net>
We are already enlightened!
Most of us, most of the time just don't know it.
Enlightenment is remembering who we are as extensions
of the one universal self.
We can't really change what we are created as.
Though it seems we like to think we can.
So meanwhile, while we forget who we are, our
real-self still remains intact and fully enlightened
beyond the grasp of time!
Mystics and prophets who get the label of being enlightened
are just really very good at remembering and experiencing
their true holy
identity consistently.
>From moment to moment.
Intend to remember!
Peace.
David.
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 22:02:28 -0400
From: Louis Conjar <lconjarATnospamerols.com>
To: Paul Ellis <pauleATnospamsirius.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Prozac and K
Message-ID: <337285B4.1EC2ATnospamerols.com>
Paul Ellis wrote:
>
> Larry Killen wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any information/thoughts on Prozac and K?
>
> I think this is a fascinating subject. It's one I've given a fair amount
> of thought to over the last couple of years without coming to any
> conclusion (no hard rules with K, maybe). But in general, I can't help
> but wonder if there's any correlation between the great numbers of people
> experiencing K awakenings these days and the increased (or so it seems to
> me) numbers going thru intense depression who often take anti-depressants
> like prozac, etc to relieve it.
>
> A friend and I have had phases of depression which seem to be
> manifestations of K (that phase now seems over for me, yea!). People on
> the list have also reported as much. I myself have not taken
> anti-depressants, but my friend did use another anti-depressant called
> serazone for a period of 18 months to 2 years. And she did first try
> Prozac for a while but quit due to nasty side-effects. She found the
> serazone very effective with the depression (it's a newer drug) and also
> found it didn't overpower her or make her feel heavily medicated. She was
> also seeing a therapist while taking the drug. She discontinued the
> serazone because, finally, she felt she had moved into a new phase and no
> longer needed it. So far, she's been fine without it.
>
> So I will just conclude with the speculation that perhaps some people
> will benefit from these drugs as short-term 'helpers' during the K phases
> which can be so emotionally trying. Although, personally, it didn't feel
> like the way to go.
>
> No expertise here. Just some thoughts and some anecdotal data.
>
> Bye for now,
> Paul
Just in case anyone is interested ... Because my Kundalini process has
been so intense for so long (over 6 years - non-stop), I found myself
battling depression too. Not wanting to take drugs, I tried to get
myself through it with meditation, etc. However, about two months ago I
came across a book about a natural herbal extract called "Hypericum
Verbatim" or "hypericum perforatum". It is also known as "St. John's
wort" (appealing, huh?). In any case, the book said that in the studies
performed, it was extremely effective for depression. So, I ordered some
and have been taking it for about a month. I don't know if my depression
has eased because of taking this natural herb or whether some of the
other things I have been doing are the source of benefit. But, I do find
that I have been feeling much better recently. If anyone is interested,
there is a website (no, it's not mine) called www.hypericum.com which is
listed on the label and I presume it has some of the information
contained in the book I read. You might want to check it out.
--
Louis Conjar - Dynamic Expansion Institute, Inc.
"All Your Spiritual and Financial Needs In One Place"
lconjarATnospamerols.com - http://www.deimarket.com
410-385-9500 - fax 410-654-9587
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