1997/04/30 12:56
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #202
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 202
Today's Topics:
A snake curled up beside me.
Re: K Birthdays
Re: Dear
Mailing list
Re: Dear Lites
What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
OOooops :/
Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Re: Dear confused in Gloria
Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Do Right Scooby-Doo?
Re: Dear Lites
What do you do with the kundalini when you've got it?
of right and wrong, Christians and Satanists, good and evil
Re: of right and wrong, Christians and Satanists, good and evil
No subject
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:24:52 -0700
From: John Halonen <halonenjATnospamix.netcom.com>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: A snake curled up beside me.
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970429142441.006858b4ATnospampopd.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The snake curled up beside me and became my friend.
The diamond reflected into my spirit a soul.
Lighted with a fire to ignite the universe.
Disconnected from all at birth.
Slowly I come to know my name.
And I find my name is strange.
A small light is within glowing like a candle.
A man emerges from nowhere and blows the candle out.
An incredible loss fills the heart.
Thunder screams and the light emerges.
>From a void into the tunnel of life it rises.
Lighting all as it continues on.
Erasing all from the mind, but the moment.
Connecting to the heavens I remain.
And I have no name. I am.
Blessings to all,
John Halonen
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:58:25 -0700
From: corvidaeATnospampobox.com (Karen Jean Armstrong)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: K Birthdays
Message-Id: <v01540b28af8bf5107fc9ATnospam[204.119.240.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Everyone, Anyone?
Want to exchange Birthdays for file?
Mine is October 5.
Namaste'
Karen A.
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:53:17 -0700
From: corvidaeATnospampobox.com (Karen Jean Armstrong)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dear
Message-Id: <v01540b30af8c01b97951ATnospam[204.119.240.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Great Idea Lobster; One more time!
Namaste'
Karen A.
Lobster wrote:
> let's all hug!
You mean group Hug?
___ ____ ___
____( \ .-' `-. / )____
(____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____)
(____ `-----( ) )-----' ____)
(____ __________ \ \____/ / __________ ____)
(______/ \ `-.____.-' / \_____)
\ **HUG** /
Most Kind HUGS
Lobster
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:12:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Mailing list
Message-ID: <970429171225_1555790650ATnospamemout03.mail.aol.com>
Please take my name off your mailing list at once!
It lis linfested with idiots!
MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dear Lites
Message-ID: <970429172652_-1500693262ATnospamemout14.mail.aol.com>
I want off this stupid mailing list at once.
MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:50:02 -0700
From: corvidaeATnospampobox.com (Karen Jean Armstrong)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Message-Id: <v01540b36af8c056355c5ATnospam[204.119.240.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Is "right" used to describe what personally resonates with each person?
--If so, then what is considered right is very personal.
One cannot trust that they know what is right for another.
Sometimes the persons who exasperate you the most are great allies
(I say this now but later I may just be stomping my feet in exasperation--
Oh well, always learning).
I have a friend/teacher who has nudged me--inspired me further...to go
within. This being often spouts beliefs that don't resonate with me at all
(insisting these beliefs are my truth as well) and has often said things
which have provoked me to a place of frustration from which only meditation
(going to my Self) could release me. I love my friend. Since I have
started communicating with this person...my meditation practices have
greatly improved. Now, I know I won't often find the answers I want
concerning my own personal journey from agreeing entirely with someone
elses' opinion but more so by centering and asking Self (meditating)...
I'm not saying I am always centered..or that I know all I need to
know....but I now trust that I know how to walk my path and will recognize
the various turns and information needed for my personal journey to Self
when I come upon them.
*I am closer to consistently maintaining my center every moment*
(affirmation--teehee)
Although, I have still not learned to trust myself completely...It is a
practice I intend to keep up...until I trust myself more and act upon
it...(no matter how long it takes).
....but, at least I now notice *what* "BRR-rings" (for me) and *what doesn't*.
I sure can be exasperating :)
Namaste'
Karen A.
>Dear Ms Serpent,
>If people knew what path was right for them
>would they Hail Bopp?
>You can not trust people to know what path is right for them
>this is why we have the Pope
>and Gloria
>Each individual represents their understanding and people learn to
>accept, ignore and so on.
>My feeling about Gloria is she has a great deal to offer
>and provide in terms of genuine advice, concern and so on
>Bigotry, intolerance and imperfection are part of our human condition
>and it is right that this is pointed out in a gentle and caring way
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:54:30 -0700
From: corvidaeATnospampobox.com (Karen Jean Armstrong)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: OOooops :/
Message-Id: <v01540b37af8c0fd1c8cbATnospam[204.119.240.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From Scooby-Doo posting:
>>*I am closer to consistently maintaining my center every moment*
>>>>(affirmation--teehee)
oooooops..........
New affirmation
*I am centered*
Namaste'
Karen A.
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:27:08 -0400
From: imtgATnospamjuno.com (tg xxx)
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Message-ID: <19970429.182801.5102.2.imtgATnospamjuno.com>
Karen wrote...
<<<Is "right" used to describe what personally resonates with each
person?
Everyone is 'right' until they open their mind.
Once they do that, then open-mindness resonates.
Once open-mindness resonates,
then you find you could be resonating being 'wrong'.
Once you are resonating being 'wrong',
then you begin once again to resonate open-mindness.
And with that open-mindness,
you end up seeing that everyone
did the best they could do
at the time for what they knew.
Maybe we should all begin resonating
ignorance from the start
as all this mind opening
back and forth
is giving me a headache
xxxtg
"If you don't know what I'm talking about, I share your lack of
knowledge. I don't know what I'm talking about either."
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgshome.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:13:17 -0700
From: corvidaeATnospampobox.com (Karen Jean Armstrong)
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Message-Id: <v01540b40af8c2111d6acATnospam[204.119.240.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear xxxtg and Everyone:
Duh Duh Duh....My brain just hung up...haha
I have been reading E-mail too long today (it is a day off)--trying to catch up.
I'll read this tomorrow to see what you are saying. I am new to this list
and I do not know a lot but I took a stab at putting my thoughts out......
I am very shy and usually keep my thoughts to myself but thought I should
start putting stuff out even at the risk of putting my foot in my mouth and
having people disagree with me....at least my foot is moving...that is an
improvement from keeping it still like I was before...hehe.
Gotta go for now :)))
Namaste'
Karen
>Karen wrote...
><<<Is "right" used to describe what personally resonates with each
>person?
>
>Everyone is 'right' until they open their mind.
>Once they do that, then open-mindness resonates.
>
>Once open-mindness resonates,
>then you find you could be resonating being 'wrong'.
>
>Once you are resonating being 'wrong',
>then you begin once again to resonate open-mindness.
>
>And with that open-mindness,
>you end up seeing that everyone
>did the best they could do
>at the time for what they knew.
>
>Maybe we should all begin resonating
>ignorance from the start
>as all this mind opening
>back and forth
>is giving me a headache
>
> xxxtg
>
>"If you don't know what I'm talking about, I share your lack of
>knowledge. I don't know what I'm talking about either."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgshome.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:39:36 -0700
From: Peter Norton <pnortonATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dear confused in Gloria
Message-ID: <336694C8.1AAAATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
>Suggesting that Witches and Iluminati need to be "saved" from their
>chosen beliefs to become Christians is very intolerant.
>to be fair.
agreed. I never saw that post.
Even though I pretend to be a 'Beyond-Good-and-Evil' good
little Nietzschean, I believe/experience there is such a thing as
'evil' and 'hell' etc. So I would still find it
difficult to hug a Satanist! | | |
| | |
|__|__|
/\ /\ x
___ / / \ \ x___
____( \ .-' --- `-. / )__
(____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____)
(____ `-----( ) )-----' ____)
(____ __________ \ \____/ / __________ ____)
(______/ \ `-.____.-' / \_____)
\ **HUG** / x
x
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:04:43 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
CC: jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
Subject: Re: What is Right for Scooby-Doo?
Message-ID: <33675F8B.1426ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
tg xxx wrote:
>
> Karen wrote...
> <<<Is "right" used to describe what personally resonates with each
> person?
>
> Everyone is 'right' until they open their mind.
> Once they do that, then open-mindness resonates.
It is very important to accept one is wrong even if right
This is why it is *sometimes* (note sometimes) more right to agree with
someone even if they are wrong. For instance when people have gone into
an "anger loop" - do you shout them down or say "there is a great deal
in what you say" and then gradually continue in a more conducive and
realistic way . . .
> "If you don't know what I'm talking about, I share your lack of
> knowledge. I don't know what I'm talking about either."
Most Kind Regards
Lobster (only knows whats being talked about when not talking)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:55:05 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: Karen Jean Armstrong <corvidaeATnospampobox.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Do Right Scooby-Doo?
Message-ID: <33675D49.1296ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Karen Jean Armstrong wrote:
> Is "right" used to describe what personally resonates with each person?
My Dear Friend,
The Nazi destruction of Human Life was done as an act that was
considered "right".
One of the things people say again and again, is how they trust the
serpent power over themself.
The message that Gloria gives on this forum and it seems simple is trust
in God
- that is whatever our Highest Concept is.
The powers of the snake are seductive.
Do you want power or Truth? (power is not Truth but Truth has Power)
So I say again Kill the Snake - it will arise in another form anyway.
> --If so, then what is considered right is very personal.
> One cannot trust that they know what is right for another.
Some people are in touch with themselves to a degree where they can
point out that which is real in another person. You will find a more
able person may make you squirm occasioanlly.
In fact you have realised and said this below . . .
> Sometimes the persons who exasperate you the most are great allies
> (I say this now but later I may just be stomping my feet in exasperation--
> Oh well, always learning).
Most Kind Regards
E Jason
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:47:12 -0700
From: brdsng <jener8rATnospammtnweb.com>
To: MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Dear Lites
Message-ID: <33674D60.12ACATnospammtnweb.com>
MerlinhatATnospamaol.com wrote:
>
> I want off this stupid mailing list at once.
>
> MerlinhatATnospamaol.com
say the magic word
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:58:30 +1000
From: Bruno Callipari <bruno_cATnospammildura.net.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: What do you do with the kundalini when you've got it?
Message-Id: <199704301458.AAA27349ATnospammildura.mildura.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
PLEASE ANSWER TOM, LOBSTER OR MISTRESS ANGELIQUE!!
My name is Bruno. I experienced kundalini in 1992 and I am 23 years old.
It's been 5 times now since I've been hospitalised and treated for psychosis
instead. But then, who do you go to when you've got kundalini
anyway?(please answer). I didn't even know what it was or that I had it
until now. Also, the psychiatric body are yet to classify my mental status
and it was only when I was flicking through the latest copy of *Wellbeing*
magazine that I momentarily jumped a milestone into reality, as opposed to
out of it like I am feeling.
From this list I have gathered that the medication is toxic and suppresses
kundalini. I actually upheld jobs with it and was an art student.
They say I am skitzo-affective. The thing is I was mostly rational all
the way through unless I felt threatened by seclusion and restlessness, and
through it I mainly spoke of loving and spiritual things, the awakening came
from intense hurt and alienation, illogically present in my life, when all I
ever wanted was to love.
After being prescribed Lithium, Cogentin, Stelazine and later Risperidone,
I was told to go off them by the psychiatrist. I became pure love,
everything around me I wanted to give love, gender had no bearing, tantric
to say the least because as my kundalini was from build up so too was my
sexuality. But even then it was erratically controlled by the k-force, with
interference from heavy injections, there were many times I remember as
blackouts that I was functioning regularly so I must have been out of my body.
If I was to go off my medication the impact of my kundalini would be too
much, because I can't control it - its makeup is intense and comes from
times in my life that were emotionally enduring. I can't function with it
but I feel I am missing out on so much. Maybe it still manifests no matter
what the psychiatric drugs do, and it comes out a little. All I want to get
down to is that I'm not crazy, which connotates that I did it to myself from
being subversive, but as I can prove with my diaries that I am editing into
a book, I was very social against terrible family and school limitations.
In need of the list's honesty and wisdom, band together buddies - bruno_c
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:17:18 +0100
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: of right and wrong, Christians and Satanists, good and evil
Message-ID: <YgVDSBAeZ0ZzEwdbATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
BLASPHEMY AND IMMORALITY CAN BE GOOD FOR YOU,
BUT PLEASE DON'T TRY THESE AT HOME WITHOUT ASKING YOUR TEACHER OR
CONSULTING YOUR SOUL FIRST........
a modern Western Buddhist take on this dilemma that can arise with
anyone trying to make sense of mystical experience that tends to
dissolve formal rules and morality, especially where kundalini is
involved, which can revel in destroying and burning up our most deeply
held convictions....
in general, methinks intelligent and discriminating forms of morality,
ethics and a clear conception of good and evil are probably healthy
things in a world where these things are often ignored or
undervalued....
but for the mystic, especially when working with shakti, this is just
the beginning of the journey, and sooner or later, these dualistic
distinctions begin to dissolve to be replaced by a spontaneous
understanding of what is right and wrong....
or even a realisation that, in some ways, we live in a non-dual universe
and there is no right and wrong, or at least, there is no distinction
between the two at a primordial level.....
later on one may formalise some of the principles of this spontaneous
understanding or intuition...and many of them will probably look
surprisingly like the tried and trusted principles that have formed the
core of many spiritual traditions in practice...only they flow from
within rather than being imposed from without....
but there is a point, i found at least, in which the conventional
spiritual conditioning has to die, and this is where, in the mind at
least, anything becomes possible and the universe can become both
wonderful and very very frightening in that it appears amoral, and the
murderer, torturer and executioner and warmonger may appear, quite
literally, to be able to get away with murder without paying a price for
their evils
so i'd say there is truth - particularly relevant to the wider
population - in those who adhere to dualistic notions of good and evil
and also a less wide role - in the cases of the more advanced mystics -
for those notions that break down and contradict our most deeply held
beliefs and opinions as we evolve towards a non-dual reality...
this is one aspect of Tantric practice that can offend those who do not
understand the principles involved....especially when things are taken
out of context.....
and is not recommended except for people who have already developed a
mature spiritual outlook on life....
in this context, even one's ideas of hell and damnation and evil must
dissolve....
and in fact, holding onto them can be a serious obstacle to spiritual
liberation.....
this is not to say there are no hells and no evil in some ways, but
simply that there is a transitional understanding in which these are
seen as essentially empty of any meaning...
so Satanism is just another spiritual tool and could be quite a good
move for some people, for a while, with the right timing, done in the
right way, if they need to break down their conventional spiritual
conditioning, and provided it is all a mind game rather than something
one actually inflicts on others who are not in on the game....but if you
get it wrong, the costs could be high, perhaps higher than with other
spiritual methods...so be careful
and blasphemy too, can help loosen things up, provided one doesn't draw
in others who may not understand what's going on, but i'd argue that, in
general, Satanism and blasphemy are only really relevant for the more
mature seekers who understand the limitations of conventional rules and
rituals in spiritual life....and also know how far to go with these
potentially quite dangerous practices as they can be self-destructive
and destructive of others.
but then, of course, other forms of "white" or "pure" spirituality can
also be very damaging to our development if they do not arise naturally
from within, but are rather imposed on us from without and just become
another form of contraction and repression...read Freud for instance on
sex, childhood, the family, religion, guilt etc....Christianity has a
lot to answer for in the West !!!!..and in the developing world too,
actually.
fortunately, the list seems to be a mature and intelligent enough forum
to understand these kinds of points which i would be wary of making in
less knowledgeable and openminded company !!!
i suppose the real challenge for kundalini yogis is, dare we live
without rules, or even with rules that contradict the most "sacred"
rules of others or of our conditioned past ?
and, if so, should we publicise the fact we are doing so, lest we
influence others who are not ready for this leap into the deep non-dual
ocean beyond life and death, heaven and hell, religious piety and
Satanism, with both its boons and risks and many fuzzy areas in between
?
in the wrong hands, any form of ideology or fixed belief system can be
extremely dangerous whether for oneself or others - be it fascism,
racism, Stalinism, materialism, imperialism, capitalism, religious
fundamentalism (including some forms of Christianity), Satanism,
mysticism....or Buddhism for that matter....
although having said that, just as very few truly mad people have ever
really done much damage to the world compared to the normal and sane
generals, dictators, businessmen and scientists who worked regular
hours, paid their taxes and enjoyed recognition and honour, some
Christians have probably oppressed and screwed up more people than
Satanists have ever done, although i have yet to see definitive research
on this thesis !
but at the same time, few of us are unable to live without some core
ideas or principles to guide us...so i suppose i'm saying understanding
our own level of development and spiritual chemistry is crucial and
realising that the infinite has innumerable, and sometimes paradoxical,
forms, some of which we are likely not to like given the world is a big
place with many people, but which we should perhaps learn to tolerate or
even understand....
and as i begin to voice well-meaning aphorisms, time to dissolve back in
to the void where Mad Tom is worshipping the moon in the name of the
Prince of Darkness....HOWL HOWL HOWL !
Yogi "No Rules, but tries to be careful about it" Tom
--
Tom Aston
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:07:12 -0700
From: Peter Norton <pnortonATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: of right and wrong, Christians and Satanists, good and evil
Message-ID: <33678A50.EB0ATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
many good points, Tom, some thoughts/rants/ripostes re:
> in general, Satanism and blasphemy are only really relevant for the more
> mature seekers who understand the limitations of conventional rules and
> rituals in spiritual life....and also know how far to go with these
> potentially quite dangerous practices as they can be self-destructive
> and destructive of others.
this may be so in a theoretical sense, but in practice, methinks
such practices would appeal to the more immature and more deluded
seekers, even more so when labelled with 'for mature audiences only'.
but I admit I know not of what I speak, I am only guessing at what
Satanism (even if there is such a thing) entails (is that a pun?).
> sex, childhood, the family, religion, guilt etc....Christianity has a
> lot to answer for in the West !!!!..and in the developing world too,
> actually.
yes yes yes
when will the Pope ever repent on behalf of all the churches and
all the missionaries? Fortunately, though, many real Saints have been
fostered and preserved and have benefitted humanity greatly.
> in the wrong hands, any form of ideology or fixed belief system can be
> extremely dangerous whether for oneself or others - be it fascism,
> racism, Stalinism, materialism, imperialism, capitalism, religious
> fundamentalism (including some forms of Christianity), Satanism,
> mysticism....or Buddhism for that matter....
well said.
just attended a book talk last night by Stephen Batchelor, who was/is
a Tibetan/Zen Buddhist who was speaking on his new book 'Buddhism
Without Beliefs'. I think he would agree with you.
> some Christians have probably oppressed and screwed up more people than
> Satanists have ever done, although i have yet to see definitive research
> on this thesis !
this would be easy to 'prove' I am sure, but suffers from some kind
of fallacy that no doubt has a technical name, wherein the numbers
of Christians far outweigh the numbers of Satanists. So, if it were
the other way around, would fewer people have been screwed up?
> but at the same time, few of us are unable to live without some core
> ideas or principles to guide us...so i suppose i'm saying understanding
> our own level of development and spiritual chemistry is crucial and
> realising that the infinite has innumerable, and sometimes paradoxical,
> forms, some of which we are likely not to like given the world is a big
> place with many people, but which we should perhaps learn to tolerate or
> even understand....
Does anyone have children out there? Mystress? Yogi? If your child
came home with his Satanist friends, I wonder how tolerant
you would feel then. There is an air of unreality in all this talk
of tolerance.
Granted, the dark side should not be repressed, and it is very useful
and educational to have some experience of evil and hell, which will
show up sooner or later on the path, but to be so dogmatic about
'tolerance' of these aspects as valid practices is a kind
of overcompensation reaction to the hyper-repression of middle class
religion, IMHO.
Maybe the problem is we cannot conceive of a form of
'intolerance' that is not repressive and punitive? I like the
word 'recognition' which implies respect and acknowledgment, but
without repression.
> to the void where Mad Tom is worshipping the moon in the name of the
> Prince of Darkness....HOWL HOWL HOWL !
no doubt a good practice for the more mature
seekers who understand the limitations of conventional rules and
rituals in spiritual life.
It seems this discussion has assumed Christianity is ignorant of the
need to recognize and come to terms with the dark side. But there is
the story of Jesus in the desert coming to terms with it,
and I was just reading where Saint Francis was
exhorting his followers to love Satan, once upon a time, moving
everyone to tears of sympathy for the Deluded One.
anyway, wish I could remember the prayer of Saint Francis, it is
a good expression of tolerance, goes like:
"May I seek to understand others, rather than to be understood."
so, please 'scuse me if I have misunderstood you!
cheers
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:16:38 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
CC: jan.watsonATnospamsympatico.ca
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <3367C4C6.7FC2ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Going beyond our capacity is very much something we can not do
but it can be done
Using language to express more than is said is impossible
so they say nothing more
Limitation is then based on certainty
yet the uncertain changes without such restrictions
For example constant improbability eventually becomes probable
and even expected though still unlikely
Nobody can think of a question without an idea of the answer
just as the answer provides possible questions
In this way the unrestricted mind can not engage in meaningful dialogue
whilst providing questions or answers
Similarly defining itself in self referential thinking
engages meaningful dialogue
deleting the cause of its incapacity
Most Kind Regards
Lobster
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