1997/04/19 11:36
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #177
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 177
Today's Topics:
letting go, picking up, dissolution of labels and attachments
Re: kundalini conception is the problem
Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Re: Tantric Kundalini - i bend with the shakti on sex...
Re: kundalini conception is the problem
I agree Lissette
Doritos and Coca-Cola
Doritos and Coca-Cola/Cosmic meal
Re: losing it...
Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Re: kundalini conception is the problem
Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Re: Doritos and Coca-Cola/Cosmic meal
SEN Gathering
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:11:08 +0100
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Subject: letting go, picking up, dissolution of labels and attachments
Message-ID: <a$6zlKAcZLWzEwVjATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
am i alone in having found tremendous need to let go of friends and
family and childhood and parents for a while, only to pick up all these
relationships again later on, but with a feeling of non-attachment that
took quite a while to get used to....
classic dilemma of the nice normal mystic - how to let go and yet
maintain appearance of normality at same time ? how to avoid offending
others by letting this letting go show ?
inner secret process of letting go can require periods of seclusion and
medittion which are not always easy to come by if working.....
sometimes one may even need to GO FORTH Buddha style and just walk away
from the old life if it won't provide an environment for you to grow and
develop spiritually.....but Western culture not keen on this, seen as
asocial....
soemtimes something has to die for something new to grow, so am wary of
laying down the law on whether one should retain conventional
relationships......
i know a Buddhist family therapist and you should hear what she says
about families even though she spends her time trying to heal them and
keep them together......
conditioned existence is not all its cracked up to be sometimes, and
Bardo account of running from the Clear Light to a new body is
intrinsically related to the relationship with father and mother.....
everything has to go in the end...nothing is worth holding onto, but
that doesn't mean it is still not possible to love or nurture
others....it may just mean one does not necessarily fulfill all that is
expected of us by others in fulfilling conditioned behaviour
letting go is no sin even when it's the ones we love we're letting go
of....
sometimes the mystic will face a clearcut choice between the light and
obeying family and social conventions, and i would say, go to the light
every time and have faith, but do it as gently as possible, like a ship
slipping its moorings for the open sea, which takes faith in one's own
experience and respect and tolerance for others too......
in the long run, you may find everyone comes back to you anyway on a
completely new level if you are patient and consistent.....
done the right way, letting go can even bring respect from others who
may not really understand what's going on because mysticism is beyond
their realms of experience....
in the end, one can only live in truth, and with shakti, that comes from
within, initially at least.....and one ignores her at your peril....
(it took a long time to learn this on my part...)
Mystic Tom (who chatted with Dad on phone only this morning.....)
--
Tom Aston
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:34:52 +0100
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, Sunil R Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: kundalini conception is the problem
Message-ID: <2+6olCAc3KWzEwAkATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.91.970419102930.14544A-
100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>, Sunil R Peswani
<peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in> writes
>
> I have been going thro' tremondous pain and heat etc. since last
> five years. Gita (a book which Hindus worship told by Hindu
> God Krishna) describes it as kundalini serpent eating
> away flesh bones heart skin hair etc. and giving out heat.
> Having the same symptoms as mentioned in Gita I came to positive
> conclusion that I am going thro' the K- process as you all
> are going thro. Last one month contact with K-list members
> confirms this.
> But...Iwas given a different conception by my inner voice .
> And .. following this conception not only I have travelled fast
> on this road, but have been safe from fear of mental and
> emotional problems. In fact I have been able to control
> this energy to some extent so that my outward life and
> inward journey continues at good rate.
>
> Initially my purpose was to come out with this conception
> but by the time I type out two three pages on the
> computer , something goes wrong at e-mail connection and
> whole effort is wasted. This problem might be pecular to
> Poona becuase of shortage of phone lines.
>
> I tried attachments once but instructions at your end do
> not approve of this.
> I have 80 pages of notes ready with me.
> What should I do?
>
>
> Any suggestions....
>
> Ram Peswani
>
Mad Tom writes: let them burn baby burn......
Scholarly Tom writes: why not edit them so that one day they might be
published ?
Yogi Tom writes: why not read and reread them and go deeper into the
worlds they describe.....
Teacher Tom writes: why not draw out the central principles and themes
and summarise them in a page or two so others can see what you've
experienced and learn from it ?
Worldly Tom writes: why not review them to see where you went wrong and
so you can get it right in the future.....
Cyber Tom writes: why not wait for a while until the time feels right
and then use any material that fits the themes of the day on the list or
take a bold step and post a page or two of whatever seems appropriate
based on your notes.....
Cosmic Tom writes: don't think about it, let it happen, "Enshallah"
in other words, use them them in whatever ways you like and see what
happens.....
why not start with a single step and plan for a long journey.....
i had a similar problem in that i had tons of material, and nothing to
do with it...in the end i've done/am doing most of the things listed
above...i found that i had to start "living" with whatever i said or
wrote for it to feel right.....
it all comes together little by little and one's understanding deepens
as the process of spiritual "coming out" opens up.....
Good luck to you,
Yogi Tom
--
Tom Aston
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:50:01 +0100
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Message-ID: <FvH0xFApFLWzEwWUATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
In message <33572781.45BBATnospambridge.net>, Dolce Vita <lissetteATnospambridge.net>
writes
>HI Tom,
>I dont know what is happening to this list, but why bother answer some
>"games condition" oriented comments that are lacking divine energy,
>shakti. What you write should be respected, as everyone elses's postings
>that reflect what the shakti provides. This list is for people
>interested in kundalini and spiritual awakening, not the " stage " of
>some frustrated egos, that their only form of expressing their
>"brilliance" is throught these evaluations and nasty criticism of the
>spiritual sharings of sincere people's feelings. I guess we love games,
>but these are not very entertaining to me... how about the rest of you?
>Loveyall,
>Lissette
Yep, Lissette is right. It was partly an experiment in seeing how
effective words and net are in bringing little contracted poisonous egos
round to apiritual reason....so a little self-interested in responding
to Phil.....
worked out in some ways as made me talk about "madness" of the void and
how even divine brilliance can be another form of attachment.....
anything can be turned around if one goes deep.......
but some things have to be rejected if only for our own well-being.....
the trouble with open forums is that they can easily be abused and there
is nothing one can do to stop this happening as Phil revelled in
pointing out.....
which in a sense encapsulates the central problem many face when
experiencing shakti - lack of safe space in which to grow and explore
the experience which can be both very subtle and very traumatic and
confusing at times.....
spiritual birth is not always a pleasant sight to behold.....
especially when things get primal and goddess shakti is involved.....
but list is about the best we've got, so might as well stay with it....
regards Yogi Tom xxxx
--
Tom Aston
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:22:13 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Message-Id: <13221365808748ATnospampeconic.net>
>writes
>>HI Tom,
>>I dont know what is happening to this list, but why bother answer some
>>"games condition" oriented comments that are lacking divine energy,
>>shakti. What you write should be respected, as everyone elses's postings
>>that reflect what the shakti provides. This list is for people
>>interested in kundalini and spiritual awakening, not the " stage " of
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
>RAVEN' VICTORIA SPEAKS THUS;
>worked out in some ways as made me talk about "madness" of the void and
>how even divine brilliance can be another form of attachment.....YOU REALLY
KNOW HOW TO NAIL A GIRL WHO RESPONDS TO A VOID ATTACHMENT...
>
>anything can be turned around if one goes deep.......IN SPIRIT'S GAME PLAYING..
>
>but some things have to be rejected if only for our own well-being.....ARE
YOU SANE?
>
>the trouble with open forums is that they can easily be abused and there
>is nothing one can do to stop this happening as Phil revelled in
>pointing out.....ETERNAL TRUTH IS INFINITE..
>
>which in a sense encapsulates the central problem many face when
>experiencing shakti - lack of safe space in which to grow and explore
>the experience which can be both very subtle and very traumatic and
>confusing at times.....HALLA LU YA!
>
>spiritual birth is not always a pleasant sight to behold.....IT IS NOISY AS
HELL, AND BOY, CAN IT SMELL, OF RANK EGO .....
>
>especially when things get primal and goddess shakti is involved.....WHEN
THINGS ARE HARD YOUVE GOT TO BE FIRM WITH ME.....
>
>but list is about the best we've got, so might as well stay with it....AAAAND
YOU WILL BE SURE TO DIE A DEATH OR THREE WITH ME AS I
FLY HIGH TO MY CABIN IN THE SKY......SMILE.....
CC, OR ME.......
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------
>regards Yogi Tom xxxx
>--
>Tom Aston
>
>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:43:27 +0100
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: Claudia McNeely <whitedoveATnospamtexramp.net>
Subject: Re: Tantric Kundalini - i bend with the shakti on sex...
Message-ID: <1PG4pNAv3LWzEwSLATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
In message <MAPI.Id.0016.0068697465646f763030303930303039ATnospamMAPI.to.RFC822
>, Claudia McNeely <whitedoveATnospamtexramp.net> writes
>
>
>> afraid so...well sort of...well, the thing about sublimating sex is it
>> has a time and a place, it's no fixed rule or anything....
>>
>> and well, only the other night i was making love to a beautiful goddess
>> in my sleep after a long absence of this kind of thing, just very deep
>> sleep and occasional lucid dreams.....
>>
>> and then i came across a Tantric verse suggesting sexuality was just one
>> more form of attachment whether sublimated or otherwise....
>>
>> so, well, we're back with the tantric laughter of the void, who cares
>> and does it matter....
>>
>> of course it does...not - delete as appropriate according to karma and
>> shakti's development of subtle body
>> --
>> Tom Aston
>>
>
>So, is our Tom admitting that he is human after all? Thank goodness. I was
>beginning to wonder.
>
>Claudia McNeely
>whitedoveATnospamtexramp.net
>www.texramp.net/~whitedove
oh yes, i'm as human as they come......
fallibility is my name, Tantra's the game...
that's why it suits me so well, as one can transform disastrous
situations in ways no other methods can.....
Tantra can heal and forgive like nothing else
although it would be simpler never to let the disasters and need for
forgiveness arise in the first place....
which is why i wouldn't recommend it to anyone, least of all those who
are really desperate as they are likely to make the biggest hash of
it....
those who would be best at Tantra are probably not in need of it....
and if you knew where i've been you would steer well clear of it if you
had any sense....
the problem is when Tantra comes and gets you and it offers the only way
out of some impossible situations....and then things start to move very
quickly...and situations get even more impossible......
which could sum up some people's experiences with shakti when she gets
in the ajna and crown especially.
i call it spiritual death, dying to the light, dissolution of
conditioning....this can last a lifetime and still not be resolved
and if you go to the Tantric guru it can all be done speedily and
surgically, although rather painfully at times
or you can muddle though under your own steam and it can be a long drawn
out DIY lobotomy,
which is not always such a good idea for oneself or others....
so, despite finding horror stories about gurus everywhere i go,
and myself being sceptical about both many gurus and wouldbe chelas,
there is a role for them when handling or awakening shakti,
and my guru quite literally rescued me from a lifetime of wandering
samsara impervious to the light
and the chemistry of finding a guru ? sincerity, honesty, openness and
waiting while at the same time going in search of the beloved from the
centre of the heart and intuition....and not thinking in terms of
spiritual stereotypes
just don't necessarily think the guru is always clad in robes and
sitting in lotus.....
it could be a few words, a book, an experience, a kiss, a glance...
something/s that defines one's direction in life and becomes a turning
point for the future....
only we have to pay careful attention otherwise the point can be missed
and become a source of regret when the light dawns much later....
a sense of a life wasted and energy misused leaves an unpleasant taste
in the mouth....
most of all when that energy is shakti manifesting as kundalini....
yours infallible when true to the guru's light, otherwise totally
useless,
Chela Tom
JAI GURU
PS Once one has found a guru be very careful before leaving this source
of truth behind in search of something else, gurus do not appreciate
being mislaid and shakti does not like getting mucked around like
this....but it is you who suffers in the end....
--
Tom Aston
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:30:07 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Sunil R Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini conception is the problem
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970419191823.21636A-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Tom Aston wrote:
> >
> Mad Tom writes: let them burn baby burn......
>
> Scholarly Tom writes: why not edit them so that one day they might be
> published ?
>
> Yogi Tom writes: why not read and reread them and go deeper into the
> worlds they describe.....
>
> Teacher Tom writes: why not draw out the central principles and themes
> and summarise them in a page or two so others can see what you've
> experienced and learn from it ?
>
> Worldly Tom writes: why not review them to see where you went wrong and
> so you can get it right in the future.....
>
> Cyber Tom writes: why not wait for a while until the time feels right
> and then use any material that fits the themes of the day on the list or
> take a bold step and post a page or two of whatever seems appropriate
> based on your notes.....
>
> Cosmic Tom writes: don't think about it, let it happen, "Enshallah"
>
> in other words, use them them in whatever ways you like and see what
> happens.....
>
> why not start with a single step and plan for a long journey...>
> Yogi Tom
> --
> Tom Aston
Ram agrees to : do not think about it , let it happen ,"enshalla"
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:23:28 -0700
From: Pamela <pamelaATnospamserv.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: I agree Lissette
Message-ID: <3358E370.77A9ATnospamserv.net>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailgate.execpc.com id NAA29484
Lissette said:
<snip>
This list is for people interested in kundalini and spiritual awakening,
<snip>
spiritual sharings of sincere people's feelings. I guess we love games,
but these are not very entertaining to me..
<snip>
I have to agree. Lately I have been deleting without really reading this
stuff. I hope that the postings begin to change and we get back to the
subject of Kundalini. I am no expert by far but I do know lately some of
the things being posted are not on subject.
Pamela
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:55:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nothing Is <holi0007ATnospamitlabs.umn.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Doritos and Coca-Cola
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970419115416.22825A-100000ATnospampiranha.itlabs.umn.edu>
Does shakti like a steady diet of Doritos and Coke? =|
Bye, nothing is
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:01:59 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Doritos and Coca-Cola/Cosmic meal
Message-Id: <17015996909006ATnospampeconic.net>
This is going to be stranger than fiction, but in 1977, I had just dorritos
and diet
and classic coke for my meals and I had a huge God consciousness Experience!
>~V~
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
> Does shakti like a steady diet of Doritos and Coke? =|
>
>
>Bye, nothing is
>
>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nancy Kar <nkarATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: losing it...
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.93.970419124600.35686A-100000ATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca>
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Douglas Sunlin wrote:
> >You see I'm always the cool and collected one. I never let others
> know
> *Matching pictures, Nancy. . . Me Taurus, long fuse, big charge. What
> do they always say afterwards? "Whew! Where did <italic>that</italic>
> come from?" Maybe things don't really roll off our shoulders
> (should-ers?)??? I mean, unless you're a duck!
I know, eh? that look of shock on others faces is precious:)
I feel more balanced now.. right in my solar plexus there is a firmness
there, that wasn't there before.
I have been going through some difficult circumstances in my life, where I
know that I will have to be very strong for myself and for my children. I
wasn't sure that I was up to the challenge. About that time I learned of
the Tantric Goddess Kalika and started having dreams about her. ...That I
was her... with lots of symbology and strength. So I do hold her dear in
my heart and have asked that she stay close within me during this time.
> > Peace is nice let's agree. How to get from A to B? Cool is cool, and
> collected is ...? What are we collecting (nukes?), and what are we
> saving it for (revenge?)? Can we just give up on collecting? Need we
> forgive when nothing is "collected"? I assume that's what Mr.
> Siddhartha was ranting about . . . I don't know about you, but I'm
> still experimenting. . . <<:-}
I never used to be a collector... the fuses just fizzled out and
disapeared. I thought ...but did they really disapear? or just sit in my
gut
somewhere and turn to decay? to find myself very sick on another day?:)
(I feel like Dr. Suess <sp?> green eggs and spam? :)
Maybe we have to look at our collections inside and decide why they're
there. Paying closer attention to our actions that proceed the feelings?
Paying attention to the situations that we are in when our guts tense up
and instead of shelving it...deal with the little stuff...right at the
time. *ponder* (sounds good in theory *grin*)
WaterFalling...
>
>
> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<>
> <<>
>
> Buran Khan <<;-}
>
> dsunlinATnospamlpd.sj.nec.com
>
> Bliss, y'all!
>
> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<> <<>
> <<>
>
* " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " *
Looking through Lightworking eyes,
Living through a Loveworking heart.
'Keep your face to the sunshine and you will not see the shadows' -H. Keller
In lak'ech Nancy...WaterFall in spirit nkarATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Message-Id: <199704191740.KAA03354ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
At 09:22 AM 4/19/97 +0100, vic bonds wrote:
>>spiritual birth is not always a pleasant sight to behold.....IT IS NOISY AS
>HELL, AND BOY, CAN IT SMELL, OF RANK EGO .....
A crack up! Ha! I think my nose chakra is most active right now
(seriously!) and so this really made special sense to me....Thanks...
M
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
Sunil R Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: kundalini conception is the problem
Message-Id: <199704191740.KAA03345ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Tom,
I am loving your posts today. The one on letting go gently was a softly lit
mirror for me, and it was very comforting to peer into it again. Thank you.
Could you explain the following a bit more please. I think you are a step
before me on this path and I'd like to hear what you have to say about that
part of the journey. Others probably would too. Here's the part I'd like
to see
expanded upon:
>i had a similar problem in that i had tons of material, and nothing to
>do with it...in the end i've done/am doing most of the things listed
>above...i found that i had to start "living" with whatever i said or
>wrote for it to feel right.....
TIA
M
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Mad Tom, Eulogy for Lobster and Buddha's Behind
Message-Id: <199704191740.KAA03349ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Tom, you wrote in part:
>which in a sense encapsulates the central problem many face when
>experiencing shakti - lack of safe space in which to grow and explore
>the experience which can be both very subtle and very traumatic and
>confusing at times.....
>
>but list is about the best we've got, so might as well stay with it....
This response to Lissette's question made me smile in recognition. I am
choosing to spend the weekend in pajamas with my journals, books(*1) and
this list, instead of the parties and markets that beckon. Few would
understand my choice. The percentage that would is probably greater here on
the K-list than any other place - in my experience...
M
(*1) This weekend's selections include:
Shadow Strategies of an American Ninja Master by Morris
Bringers of the Dawn by Marchiniac (2nd time around is still
WOW!)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:11:38 -0400 (EST)
From: Nancy Kar <nkarATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Doritos and Coca-Cola/Cosmic meal
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.970419141027.16639A-100000ATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca>
On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, vic bonds wrote:
> This is going to be stranger than fiction, but in 1977, I had just dorritos
> and diet
> and classic coke for my meals and I had a huge God consciousness Experience!
> >~V~
...says the guy with the orange keyboard
<mischevious grin:>
WaterFall
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------
> > Does shakti like a steady diet of Doritos and Coke? =|
> >
> >
> >Bye, nothing is
> >
> >
>
* " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " * " *
Looking through Lightworking eyes,
Living through a Loveworking heart.
'Keep your face to the sunshine and you will not see the shadows' -H. Keller
In lak'ech Nancy...WaterFall in spirit nkarATnospamfreenet.npiec.on.ca
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: SEN Gathering
Message-Id: <199704191823.LAA07284ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
The Spring SEN Newsletter asks about interest in a gathering this autumn
either in Hawaii or San Francisco. In either case the date is 10/30 to 11/2.
Let them know of your interest and preferred site at:
Clan Gathering
c/o SEN
PO Box 1464
Santa Cruz CA 95061
DISCLAIMER!
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