1998/03/23 20:38
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #223
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 223
Today's Topics: RE: PRANAYAMA [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: gurus redux [ Harsh Luthar ] Re: gurus redux [ Danijel Turina ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #222 [ "Jan Barendrecht" ] Re: Past Lives [ Imtgxxx ]
Unresolved side-effect [ "Jan Barendrecht"
>Kurt says:
>From a psychological perspective when you awaken kundalini you activate >your unconscious. The same thing occurs in mental illness. If one's psyche
>is capable of handling the unconscious content this is fine. If it is not >then something very akin to mental illness, and in the extreme, psychoses,
>can occur. That comes with the territory. So after observing kundalini >practitioners, and inadvertent kundalini awakenings, for a long time, my
>working hypothesis is that some people are better suited to handle >kundalini awakening than others - and this, and not the safety of the
>techniques used to perform the awakening, is the primary issue. I say this >as someone who was not very ready for my kundalini when the awakening
>began.
Excellent point. This makes a lot of sense. The same could be said of those who have experimented with hallucinogens. Confronting your own unconscious
can be either a "good trip" or a real "bummer." (And I'm not advocating drug use, just making an observation). To extend the analysis, perhaps
those of us who have had "happy" childhoods have the easiest time with these processes. Let's see raised hands from all of you for whom this is
true :)
>ALSO, I have seen more ``kundalini >basket cases'' in the TM movement than in any other- TM is an ostensibly
>harmless meditation practice with no pranayama. Thus my original point on >danger.
Why do you think this is? What is it about TM that would do this? I don't
know much about it, except that it began to be popular in the '60s.
an "enquiring" mind, amckeon
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:58:59 -0500 From: Harsh Luthar
To: Jan Barendrecht CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: gurus redux Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Jan Barendrecht wrote:
But without the Bodhisatva vow, one will never become a Buddha.
> Jan
The Compassionate Harsha smiles: As long as one is attached to any vows one will
never become a Buddha. (Please don't beat me!:-). Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:04:06 +0100
From: Danijel Turina To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: gurus redux Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jan! :)
At 23:42 1998.03.23 -0000, you wrote:
>But without the Bodhisatva vow, one will never become a Buddha.
I would rather say, before becoming buddha, one can never become bodhisattva. :))
Take care! :)
----- E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:18:46 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #222 Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
From: "Jan Barendrecht" Subject: Re: gurus redux
-----Original Message----- From: Jan Barendrecht
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: gurus redux <
The Buddha gave the example himself. Without his enlightenment there would have been no Buddhism. If meditation, precepts and rules are kept, it is
impossible to escape Nirvana. During his life, Buddha had to review the explanation of Nirvana, because it was misunderstood as a form of personal
samadhi - it is not, of course. Enlightened ones are irresistible (for seekers). It is one of the reasons why Buddha had no problems of converting
Hindus. As a Bodhisattva, this wouldn´t have been possible. The change from Bodhisattva to Buddha isn´t gradual. >>
jan, as i understand it, this is a little misleading. Bodhisattvas on the
3 highest bhumi levels are of the caliber of Avolokiteshvara, Arya Tara, etc. Some of them decide not leave samsara so they can be a resource to
others. They emenate amoung us all the time. They are fully enlightened, but until every other being is freed from samsara, they arent going
anywhere. they are not immortal...not like a Taoist immortal certainly. i hardly think that as enlightened bodhisattvas (buddhas except for that
final nirvana stuff) they would not be irresitable in the form of an emenation.
<But without the Bodhisatva
vow, one will never become a Buddha.>>
There is more than the bodhisattva yana, or did you forget about the Pretyakabuddhas and the Shavrakas? They dont hang around, but their
vehicles are valid and true. Some say the arhats are still in a type of pureland. A pretyekabuddha, i'm not sure about. They have liberated
themselves completly. They did not choose to hang around however. They have compassion, but its not the same type as the Bodhicitta motivation.
They too wish for all beings to be free, but for whatever reason, do not take an active roll in that as much.
maitri,
--janpa Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:29:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Angela Mary Broad To: Anurag Goel
Cc: Imtgxxx , kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Past Lives
Message-Id:
Hi Anurag,
Yes, I think when I go, I'll just ask for a
suggestion-to-rembember..thanks :) I have recieved advice to hold off on this untill after school (UofC) lets out (end of April) in case the
experiances/lives remeberd are painfull, or part of a deep emotional clensing process/tramautic or just plain so neat-o that I don't want to
think about anything else let alone study for finals!!! Apperently once this stuff is brought to the conscious mind it stays there, and a door is
opened that can not be shut. Rather like K I would think? Being on both of these paths, starting seriously in the summer will give me 4 good
months to make progress/assimilate experiances :) This isn't to say stuff doesn't pop up at the most inopertune times anyhow...;) Have you had a
regression or regressions done?
Love, Angie
I have never gone by Mary, it could be interesting :) :) :) rofl :::))))
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Anurag Goel wrote:
> >
> Hi Mary, > It depends on the individual whether one can remember the
> hypnotism session. I think person who is on the path of kundalini > awakening should be able to remember something. When is
> hypnotised one's conscious is made to go to sleep and unconscious > awakens but one can have both of them awakenend at the same time.
> All depends on individual. May be if the hypnotist gives a > command during hypnotism to remember the hypnotism session then I
> think one should be able to remember. > Love,
> anurag >
> On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Angela Mary Broad wrote: >
> > Hello xxxtg > >
> > Thank you for your advice on past life regression and hypnotharapists. I > > have one more question, is the person undergoing the regression conscious
> > of what is happening while it is happening, or does the hypnotharapist > > tape the session? I believe it would be the most fascinating if I were
> > conscious of what was being remembered while it was being remembered, at > > that moment in the session.
> >
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:44:49 -1000 (HST)
From: Robert h krueger To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Message-Id:
Dear Lobster,
I did not ask to get envolved in this shit.I was stupid enough to get involved with one of your kundalni mandellas.You know, the one with the snake wrapped all the
way around the signs of the zodiac. the snake has its tail in its mouth right there at the top, In the center are two triangles ( pyrmids ) one of which has an eye in the center. Plus a bunch of symbols all over the place. If your so damn smart, you figure it out. Being young and stupid, and under the influence of LSD. It shit in my birthday cake
for nine months, but what i got out of it was worth more to me than riches.Id be more than happy to take it to my grave, I didnt even know what the hell kundlini was untill nine months later when i looked on the bottom and saw the words KUNDALINI MENDELLA . I suggest you try this . or are you kundalini's afraid to meditate on your own mandellas. I had to go through your whole trip consious, so thats why i told you i felt 95 % expeience and 5% book learning scattered amongts half a dozen special books, I dont think half you people understand what your getting into. And even if you did its to late anyways. So if your all so envolved
in discussing the finer points of book learning, to be interested in the actual range of experiences, Im gonna spend my time jumping up and doun on my old lady instead of trying to get through to somebody. Lobster is a strange name my friend.but i guess i could live with that if you can if you decide you want to be one Sincerly Robert
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:56:33 -0600
From: "Cynthia Selene" To:
Subject: Greetings from a Newbie Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
MM,
Hi. I'm new to the list; I have been lurking here for about 2 or 3 weeks. I
have been enjoying the posts from everyone, although to be honest I am not even sure if I am in the process of Kundalini awakening. First, some
background.
I am Wiccan. I have a great respect for all belief systems, and hope that you will respect mine. I, for the most part, worship Goddess. I am
particularly interested in the Hindu Pantheon, most notably Kali, the Black Goddess. She has called to me, and my HPS believes her to be my Patroness,
which I have accepted.
I know that there is much that I can learn here; I have been practicing meditation and Hatha Yoga off and on for about 20 years, now (I am in my
late 30's). Unfortunately, except for the last year, these practices have been more 'off' than 'on'.
My HPS sent us a spiel about Kundalini a few months ago, although I had
begun to read about it a little more than a year ago. Some things that were mentioned in her article I have experienced. I realize that most, if not
all, of you are much more experienced than I. As I said, I am not even sure that what I have experienced is a Kundalini awakening. Perhaps if I am not
sure, then it is not. e.g., if you have to ask if you're in love, then you're not. Anyway, some of the "symptoms" I have experienced are the
following:
confusion and disorientation, cry easily jerking movements of the body
past traumas (i.e., sexual abuse) not remembered *are* recalled have done mudras that I had never learned
intense interest in Sanskrit and Hindu pantheon (re: Kali, Shakti) I quit breathing when trying to fall asleep, enough to make me panic and
jerk upright headaches, gastro-intestinal upsets
extreme lethargy sexual desire *greatly* increased
depression, and joy, alternating sometimes visions of lights, especially during meditation
hearing voices (how I got my *magickal* name, that I will not share for now)
able to see auras more clearly smell of bread baking, roses, gardenias, when there is nothing like that
around strong sense of spirit
movement up the spine--i.e., chills
I have seen the list of recommended books, but there are too many for me to afford. What do *you* recommend, on Kundalini, pranayama, etc.?
Many of your posts have touched me, most notably Anurag's, Gloria's (both!)
and Danijel's. There have been others, but can't remember whose. Sorry. Don't feel slighted if I didn't list *you*!
1997 was a very emotional year for me. My brother died suddenly (he was
only 2 years older than me), a couple of friends died, I found Wicca, got depressed so severely that the doctor had to put me on medication
(Effexor--70 mg./day)...I was very suicidal for a while. I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, but I just throw it out with all of
the other things!
I am looking forward to your comments.
Oh, BTW, Mystress Angelique Serpent, I believe I recognize you from another list I was on about a year ago--TCP list? I remember you had to quit it
because of the time a kundalini list was taking you. Anyway, good to see (hear!) from you again.
BB * Namaste,
Cynthia Selene
Jai Ma!
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:01:23 -1000 (HST) From: Rogert h krueger
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id:
Dear lobster, Sorry to bother you again , but i almost forgot.
The name on that stone i got going through your process was BEN NEMISH for what ever that means to you Kundalinis
I was not trying to play some stupid game. If you can find that name somewhere your doing better than me. Im glad at least I made a few friends oout there,or this would not be worth it. Robert
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:14:27 EST
From: Druout To: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Amckeon,
Add me to the list of those who had a happy childhood and have had a VEry easy
time of K.
Love, Hillary Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:24:18 -0000
From: "Jan Barendrecht" To:
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #222 Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>From Debora A. Orf Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #222
From: "Jan Barendrecht" Subject: Re: gurus redux
-----Original Message----- From: Jan Barendrecht
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: gurus redux <
The Buddha gave the example himself. Without his enlightenment there would have been no Buddhism. If meditation, precepts and rules are kept, it is
impossible to escape Nirvana. During his life, Buddha had to review the explanation of Nirvana, because it was misunderstood as a form of personal
samadhi - it is not, of course. Enlightened ones are irresistible (for seekers). It is one of the reasons why Buddha had no problems of converting
Hindus. As a Bodhisattva, this wouldn´t have been possible. The change from Bodhisattva to Buddha isn´t gradual. >>
>jan, as i understand it, this is a little misleading. Bodhisattvas on the
3 highest bhumi levels are of the caliber of Avolokiteshvara, Arya Tara, etc. Some of them decide not leave samsara so they can be a resource to
others. They emenate amoung us all the time. They are fully enlightened, but until every other being is freed from samsara, they arent going
anywhere. they are not immortal...not like a Taoist immortal certainly. i hardly think that as enlightened bodhisattvas (buddhas except for that
final nirvana stuff) they would not be irresitable in the form of an >emenation.
<But without the Bodhisatva
vow, one will never become a Buddha.>>
>There is more than the bodhisattva yana, or did you forget about the Pretyakabuddhas and the Shavrakas? They dont hang around, but their
vehicles are valid and true. Some say the arhats are still in a type of pureland. A pretyekabuddha, i'm not sure about. They have liberated
themselves completly. They did not choose to hang around however. They have compassion, but its not the same type as the Bodhicitta motivation.
They too wish for all beings to be free, but for whatever reason, do not >take an active roll in that as much.
>maitri,
>--janpa
This time, I have a few questions. What is the difference between "fully enlightened" of Bodhisattvas and of Buddhas and of persons like Ramana
Maharishi. You are suggesting there are several types of "full enlightenments". Can you explain how in a fully enlightened one there still
is room for desires like helping others and taking rebirth? A logical conclusion would be that a
fully enlightened one taking rebirth will be a fully enlightened one immediately, because a fully enlightened one has exhausted all karmas and
hence takes rebirth without karma. If it would be so uncomplicated, no doubt in every system of meditation all masters/gurus would be reincarnating all
the time just for the benefit of disciples :-))) They don't - so there must be a vast difference between "fully enlightened ones" of Buddhism and all
others systems of meditation. What has always amazed me is that only Buddhism offers this variety of full enlightenments - to me it defies logic
whereas Buddhism is said to be open to logic.
Jan Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:50:17 +0100
From: Gloria Greco To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu"
CC: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" Subject: Re: Gloria Greco leaves the list and sends love to all
Message-ID:
Kurt Keutzer wrote: >
> Your compassionate act is really inspirational. >
> I don't know if you noticed but I recently had a ``Gloria conversion'' > regarding the relationship of ascending and descending energies. We'll see
> if it sticks in your absence. > Love, Kurt
Hi Kurt,
I hope you will stay in touch you have my address and I invite anybody
to feel free to write to me directly if your told that I might have something to contribute, it is not that I'm not connected, I am. It is
that I'm starting a new connection with some precious little souls who right now are in that tremendous changing time and it is in focus
presently, that certainly doesn't mean that I'm out of touch with all of you.
I do find that working with people on moving into the higher centers
creates the balance and the necessary understanding to then get through the blocks, the only thing is see even with this, what has to be
continually brought to focus is getting beyond whatever illusion arises. And even the love and bliss is just a stepping stone, each center is
another grade and challenge and it is important to learn all that is to be offered in this through continually moving on. If you begin to just
settle in and think you have arrived it is a sign that more detaching is needed to open up the next gateway. God Bless all. Gloria
> > -----Original Message-----
> From: Gloria Greco [SMTP:lodpressATnospamintercomm.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 10:58 AM
> To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com > Subject: Gloria Greco leaves the list and sends love to all
> > K list friends,
> I have decided to go off of the list for a while. I am very busy right > now with my three little foster girls, 5 year old Savannah, 8 yr old
> Sarah and Shannon who is 11. This girls have lived in and out of motel > rooms for most of their life and in the park at times even. So, my
> husband and I are initiating some big changes in their life, which also > involves some changes in ours as well.
> I have enjoyed meeting all of you and will come back if and when spirit > moves me in that direction. I have finished my kundalini experience book
> and it is going to be read by several possible publishers, I will let > you know if and when it is out there if any of you are interested.
> Until then, and I know I have to do the right process in order to get > off, but I will do it and sign off for now. Love to all of you. Gloria
> Joy Greco
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
& http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them! Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:57:06 EST
From: Harsha1MTM To: samyanaATnospamhotmail.com, 930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA/AGE??
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-03-23 16:47:42 EST, samyanaATnospamhotmail.com writes:
< To The Elderly BUT Still Normal Harsha, Sir, it somewhat distresses me to see "almost 40" referred to as
"advancing age." May we all be so normal as you are, but is your life really that ordinary?? >>
I did not mean to suggest that almost 40 is advanced age. I was only speaking
in the context of Pranayama. Many of the advanced exercises effect the heart, lungs, the nervous system and the blood pressure. They are more difficult to
take up (like any sport) as one gets older. However, even people 50 or over who are in otherwise good health can take up Pranayama exercises suitable for
them. As far as my life being ordinary I assure you it is so. I have had the flu and just now took several tablets of Tums for my upset Tummy. Do you
require more evidence?......Happy Harsha Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:01:55 EST
From: Imtgxxx To: ambroadATnospamacs.ucalgary.ca
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Past Lives
Message-ID:
Angie writes.... < is the person undergoing the regression conscious of what is happening
while it is happening, or does the hypnotharapist tape the session?
Every session I held, the client was conscious and could remember later (& while it is happening) everything that happened. I liked to tape the sessions
or take notes (to give to them afterwards) to remind them of things, as sometimes we would be in a session for 1-3 hours. That would be something
you would want to ask them prior.
You said you can put yourself into an altered state while meditating. This is great, as hypnosis will come very easily to you then. Most people expect
hypnosis to be so different than it is. It is just an altered state also - where your conscious mind is set aside so the hypnotherapist can talk to your
subconscious mind. In the majority of cases, you will be *awake* and conscious. I even ask sometimes while the client is under if they *feel*
hypnotized. They most always say no, unless they are extremely visual. LOL. (Then I'll glue them to the chair or something like that and make them try to
get up). That's when they realize that altho they don't feel like they are, something is different since they can't seem to get up from the chair until I
tell them they can.
Everyone can be hypnotized except the very young, very old, the retarded (I've heard), the unwilling, and the hard of hearing (tried that - didn't work).
You have to be willing. (altho you don't have to believe). And just let your expectations of what you *think* it is supposed to be, go.
Because you are visual, auditory & kinesthetic, you will make an excellent
person for hypnosis - those types were my favorite to do!
If you are worried about psychic fairs and such, just call around for a certified hypnotherapist that does past lives. It may cost more, or may even
be for free -- I did past lives for no charge, just for fun, as it was *not allowed* in the city I lived in. The local therapists would have closed me
down! In all the regressions & progressions I did, no one was ever traumatized from them, so I would put that worry out of your head. Even when
you take someone to see themselves at their death in a life, it isn't traumatic - I always (well, with one exception with a person I was irked at)
let them watch that scene as a movie, rather than *feel* it. You will find it fascinating, rather than something that will bother you later. I experienced
a past life regression once where I felt as if I was actually there (altho I knew I was still sitting in the chair being hypnotized) - and it was an awful
life! I was in a dungeon and tied down on a concrete bed where I couldn't move any part of my body, nor talk real well as I had some kinda thing on my
head so I couldn't move it - my mouth was partially open and I had a difficult time talking. The hypnotist asked if I wanted to watch it rather than feel
it, and I said 'nooooo', as I was having such a great time experiencing it! It was awful, but so much fun and fasinating.... So if you go with that way of
looking at it (do it for the fun of it), then I promise, you'll just have a great time.
One point I would like to make is that after my dungeon session, I wanted to
go back to that life and learn a bit more on my own. Put myself in hypnosis - went to that life, and as I was laying there, feeling it all once again, this
time I had spiders crawling all over me, running in and out of my mouth - it was terrible! I had to do some quick thinking and a bit of time to get myself
outta that. So I do NOT recommend you doing this on your own after your session. A good therapist is great to have to get you out of spots like that,
or to avoid them in the first place.
My experience with psychic fairs have been all positive, so I cannot give you any advice to any bad vibes that may be going around. Never saw or felt them
myself. Again, I go for the fun of it. I also participate in them also.... again, for the fun of it.
So Angie, just go and have a good time!
xxxtg
* Everyone is entitled to my opinion *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: Subject: Unresolved side-effect
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C7_01BD56D2.2085C340"
One side-effect of my K. was the awareness of a beam of energy (radiation) leaving from the eyes. I could sense electrical fields with them and the sensation was particularly strong with HT power-lines. Gazing at them was very pleasant and felt like my ‘battery of life´ was charged. Accidentally I found out that I could project this ‘energy´ (or whatever it was) on persons. The range was limited to about 20 meters. Persons that were ‘hit´ this way, halted immediately, looked around and then checked their back at a spot, a little above the heart. Some persons I could even ask what happened and they told me, they had felt as if a sharp needle had hit them in the spine at the aforementioned location. Not knowing the consequences of it (not even knowing about K.) I tried to avoid "hitting" people by looking too suddenly at them. As this happened to strangers, I don´t know of any further effects this ‘sting´ caused. Does anyone know the effect - do chakras in the eyes exist? During this period my pupils where so enlarged that no iris could be seen and yet my eyesight was very good. The phenomenon lasted for only a week and a half and never came back (alas).
Jan
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