To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/28 04:31
Subject: Digest for kundaliniATnospamtopica.com, issue 7
From: Kundalini
On 1999/12/28 04:31, Kundalini posted thus to the K-list:
-- Topica Digest --
Nazi Scumbags
By mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com
Nazi Scumbags
By mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com
Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
By aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
Re: Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
By aurasphereATnospamhome.com
Re: Goodbye
By onarresATnospaminreach.com
To Jenell re kundalini
By loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com
Re: Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
By loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com
Hi.
By h2jacksonATnospamprodigy.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:22:52 0000
From: "winter mute" <mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com>
Subject: Nazi Scumbags
On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:31:28 peter j bolton wrote:
>Nazism was a huge wave of euphoria emanating from a paradigm of
>false premise which temporarily gave rise to a false feeling of unity.
>This is possible due to the inherent functionality in Man known as
>desire which seems to be directly associated with the utilization of
>the life force or kundalini, to evolve to a higher plane of existence.
Thank you very much for sharing, Peter.
It's always interesting to see ppl's
thoughts on the reasons behind Nazism.
There are many good books out there on
the external and factual reasons for the rise
of the NSDAP in the 30's, but none on the
true internal reasons.
The idea of unity with other individuals
and the leader is and was central in Nazism and
fascism as well.
This is symbolised in the fasces, the stack
of branches that are held tightly together
by ropes.
I very much agree with you and see the desire
for unity as a direct desire for the unity
with the higher self.
Your thoughts on the connection b/n
this desire and the artifical bliss that Nazism
could provide, provides me with new perspectives
on this subject. :)
Thank you again.
Best regards,
Amanda.
Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:57:02 0000
From: "winter mute" <mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com>
Subject: Nazi Scumbags
On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 02:42:51 Robert Weil wrote:
Amanda:
>>My personal choice in these puzzles is to try
>>and extend sympathy to all. :)
>>Even those who do not share my views.
Rob:
>How would it be if those ppl then wanted an association with you, based on
>normal human interaction? I ask because I am in a similar situation at
>present.
Hi Rob,
Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:
If it's everyday human interaction,
without politics, such as a colleague,
I would not mind terribly, unless the
colleague started mixing politics with
personal and work stuff.
If it was a friend, and there was an argument,
I would state my disagreement with the politics.
With someone who is very fanatical,
and deeply associated with Neo-Nazism,
this is usually enough to want them to end the friendship as they usually only dare to
speak to the already converted or potential
convertees.
For someone who knew I disagreed and still
wanted to be buddies, it would be ok, if he or
she still wanted to be buddies, it would be
fine by me. It would be his/her choice to stay
friends, not mine. :)
But of course, you must solve the dilemma
in the way you see fit.
>In '95 I was staying at a bed and breakfast place in Yorkshire. The man of
>the house was virulently anti-German
LOL ! Virulently !
I feel sorry for anyone with such antipathies.
They expend a lot of energy into keeping
their hatred alive and makes other ppl
uncomfortable with their cloak of bitterness.
I do not think I would have stayed for long in
that house either.
One may wonder what kind of defenses this
anger and bitterness hides. I feel there is
usually a deep seated emotional problem at the
heart of such long hold antipathies.
Strange thing is, numerous veterans do not
hold much of a grudge.
I believe they want it to be a closed chapter
and holding onto old bitterness will be like
keeping the old coal of anger still burning in
your palms, in the end it will hurt yourself
and sap the life from yourself.
Yet, many ppl
who were not front line troops do, and
especially civilians and resistance fighters
or former occupied territories are very
hard line, like they're really disappointed
they never had a chance to go out and fight.
It's all very human, but I find it sad
all the same.
>So there we were, watching this, the husband becoming visibly restless. His
>view had been so easy, black versus white. :) >The husband was very quiet afterwards. I felt at that point I
>could lightly mention that my father was German
LOLOL !
You are a brave man, Rob.
Thank you very much for the story. :)
It must have been a very good program and they
were brave to
dare show the facts and speak openly about it.
:)
>No
>wonder they were popular: they promised to rebuild Germany, the country and
>the psyche of the people. They gave them a reason for living.
Yes, I believe the importance of self esteem
and the pride that existed in all European
countries
at that time, with king and country
(in this case Kaiser and country)
reigning is difficult for us today to imagine.
I have only seen something that could approach
it in the reverence some Asian countries
have for their royal family. :)
>I agree with what you say there, very much. "Pity not the fallen", as
>Crowley once said, is my idea of hell. And the reaction to Fascism and
>Nazism can be just as vociferous, viz some of the projected anger in Israel
>towards the Palestinians (OK here I go into deep water, but I'm partly
>Jewish, so I ask permission of my DNA).
LOL ! You are a brave man.
Nevertheless, Israel has done a great job in
upholding the ideals of democracy in
situations where one would not deem it
a strong desire to do so. I'm thinking
about their not so nice neighbours. :)
However, the ppl of Israel have seen what
not having a democracy can lead to, so
this must give them the double resolve to
keep it.
>So difficult, I don't know if I can resolve it in my personal life at the
>moment, I'm asking for grace, coz I can't control what's going on.
Asking for grace in this kind of situation sounds like a good idea to me. :)
Thanks also for the beautiful New Year's
wish, Rob ! :))
Best regards,
Amanda.
Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:19:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
Subject: Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
Namaste Brothers and Sisters,
The concept of Avatar is really not a concept that can
carry over so easily. It is erroneously translated as
, Messiah, God walks on Earth, Mehdi etc. The word
means cross-down and Sai says we are all Avatars, the
difference being Awareness that manifests in
childhood. However there are other concepts that
describe the same condition; Jivanmukti, or Tantrika
Siddha, Mahasiddha, Mahasakti.
Tantra is a very secretive sadhana, and is older than
the Vedas, older than Adam and Eve, for it is the
Continuum. Some sadhakas follow a system that involves
use of the sex organs, Kundalini ojas etc, and this
is misunderstood by Westerners and Hindu
Fundamentalists particularly.
Not by all Hindus, the more enlightened Vedantists
are more understanding of what it is, even if it is
not their 'bag', so to speak, like myself. One first
has to understand that morality is relative to a
society and that there is ultimately no bad or good,
only that which achieves Moksha. This tantric system
is called antinomianism, pratilo-man, against the
norm, paravritti-inversion, Mai-thuna or ritualised
sexual intercourse.
Tantra is quite secretive but there are some hints,
starting with Siva/Sakti, quoting the Artharva Veda,
Magic-Conjuring, Ateeta-Sakti-Hynotism,(mass
hypnotism), smoking Bhanga, Vijaya, (Cannabis).
Bliss is bliss, sexual bliss is fleeting but it is the
Sakti. This is why people are attached to it, it is
the nearest they get to the ecstasy, of Samadhi. It
is used by some tantric schools to induce sustained
ecstasy leading to a kind of Savikalpa Samadhi,
obviously not Nirvikalpa.
They say it is possible for one Tantrika
Siddha,(Mahasiddha/Avatar), to raise, or lift the
karma of entire humanity. This has never been achieved
by any Avatar or Divine Descent yet! So-Ham by the way
is a tantric mantra. It is my belief that much of the
misunderstanding, is due to ignorance of the tantra,
and energies etc.
My guess is that these tales we hear, from time to
time, from all over, about strange group sex and dope
etc are due to this misunderstanding. Unless one can
take one's mind back before religion and even back
beyond the Tantric parable of Adam and Eve, back
before right and wrong, one will not understand any of
this. Not all Tantra is overtly sexual of course.
What is good in one age may be the reverse in another
age, it is all relative. The big block to
understanding spirituality and liberation is
unnecessary fundamentalism. West or East.
Love, Tony.
=====
Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
_________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:36:29 -0800
From: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
Dear Tony ,
That is a good post, thank you!
I would like to go deeper into what you are touching on.
Hopefully soon.
Love, Wim
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
To: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com <kundaliniATnospamtopica.com>
Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 11:19 AM
Subject: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
>
>Namaste Brothers and Sisters,
>
>The concept of Avatar is really not a concept that can
>carry over so easily. It is erroneously translated as
>, Messiah, God walks on Earth, Mehdi etc. The word
>means cross-down and Sai says we are all Avatars, the
>difference being Awareness that manifests in
>childhood. However there are other concepts that
>describe the same condition; Jivanmukti, or Tantrika
>Siddha, Mahasiddha, Mahasakti.
>
>Tantra is a very secretive sadhana, and is older than
>the Vedas, older than Adam and Eve, for it is the
>Continuum. Some sadhakas follow a system that involves
>use of the sex organs, Kundalini ojas etc, and this
>is misunderstood by Westerners and Hindu
>Fundamentalists particularly.
>
> Not by all Hindus, the more enlightened Vedantists
>are more understanding of what it is, even if it is
>not their 'bag', so to speak, like myself. One first
>has to understand that morality is relative to a
>society and that there is ultimately no bad or good,
>only that which achieves Moksha. This tantric system
>is called antinomianism, pratilo-man, against the
>norm, paravritti-inversion, Mai-thuna or ritualised
>sexual intercourse.
>
>Tantra is quite secretive but there are some hints,
>starting with Siva/Sakti, quoting the Artharva Veda,
>Magic-Conjuring, Ateeta-Sakti-Hynotism,(mass
>hypnotism), smoking Bhanga, Vijaya, (Cannabis).
>
>Bliss is bliss, sexual bliss is fleeting but it is the
>Sakti. This is why people are attached to it, it is
>the nearest they get to the ecstasy, of Samadhi. It
>is used by some tantric schools to induce sustained
>ecstasy leading to a kind of Savikalpa Samadhi,
>obviously not Nirvikalpa.
>
>They say it is possible for one Tantrika
>Siddha,(Mahasiddha/Avatar), to raise, or lift the
>karma of entire humanity. This has never been achieved
>by any Avatar or Divine Descent yet! So-Ham by the way
>is a tantric mantra. It is my belief that much of the
>misunderstanding, is due to ignorance of the tantra,
>and energies etc.
>
>My guess is that these tales we hear, from time to
>time, from all over, about strange group sex and dope
>etc are due to this misunderstanding. Unless one can
>take one's mind back before religion and even back
>beyond the Tantric parable of Adam and Eve, back
>before right and wrong, one will not understand any of
>this. Not all Tantra is overtly sexual of course.
>What is good in one age may be the reverse in another
>age, it is all relative. The big block to
>understanding spirituality and liberation is
>unnecessary fundamentalism. West or East.
>
>
>Love, Tony.
>
>
>=====
>Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
>
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
>THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
>MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
>OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
>_________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>Unsubscribe from this list by sending email to:
>kundalini-unsubscribeATnospamtopica.com
>
>_____________________________
>Get your favorite topic delivered daily.
>http://www.topica.com/t/11
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:19:00 -0800
From: onarresATnospaminreach.com
Subject: Re: Goodbye
Dear List,
After three and half years (more or less) on the Kundalini list, I find
it is time for me to say goodbye. Some may say "Hurray", because I have
not minced words in the past, nor do I intend to do so in the future.
As I think back over time, I've watched people come and go, and often to
return again, some sub for a very short while, others staying for longer
periods of time, eventually moving on... the lurkers - and we only know
them by name when they leave the list. Some have become good friends, and
I shall remember them always.
First, a thank you to Richard Satin for keeping the list going when
Haakon Rian Ueland left - and then, I want to thank Mystress for all the
patience she has had with the list since she took command... for the
reprimands, the slap on the hand that is often all too necessary... and
because she has given so freely of her time, and financial funds to keep
the list going.
And now as I begin to pack for yet another trip, signing off other lists,
preparing myself for new experiences, I shall think of some of you
fondly. I shall especially remember El, who is finally posting, and what
a delight to read! Sharon - I will be in touch... Lobster whose wit did
more to awaken me into seeing what he was really doing with his sarcasm,
<italic>really miss him</italic>... Wim, Freda, Thomas, Maureen, Jill,
Valerie, Nancy, Hillary, Larry, and of course, David Bozzi's quick
one-liners... Jeanne for her Reiki attunements, whoops, she is not on the
list any longer. Flute, I know you're still out there, we just don't hear
from you very often.
I will leave you with this thought "Don't be so quick to judge others,
know yourself first. Every person is on their own path, and walking the
path in their way. You may not agree with it, but honor it anyway.
Happy New Years to you all.
dor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:21:59 PST
From: "Marion Hanvey" <loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com>
Subject: To Jenell re kundalini
You're right Jenell, about forgiveness.
I sent you this message last night, but apparently put the wrong address on
it. (.net not.com) so you didn't receive it.
loulou
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:15:49 PST
From: "Marion Hanvey" <loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
Dear Tony,
I didn't know soham was a tantric mantra!
You learn something new every day.
Maybe we're not told these things because immediately the mind will put a
tag on it, oh tantra -sex-not nice. Or "not for me" We are limited by our
conditioning and the concepts in our minds sometimes.
There probably is no difference really between Yoga and Tantra, and the way
to the river of bliss inside doesn't matter as long as nobody is harmed.
(Anyway we all chant soham every day with the breath!)
Love
Loulou
(P.S. I just sent a similar post to you, but it appears to have got lost.
It may turn up, in which case you'll get it twice. Sorry about that)
>From: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
>Reply-To: aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
>To: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com
>Subject: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:19:34 -0800
>
>
>Namaste Brothers and Sisters,
>
>The concept of Avatar is really not a concept that can
>carry over so easily. It is erroneously translated as
>, Messiah, God walks on Earth, Mehdi etc. The word
>means cross-down and Sai says we are all Avatars, the
>difference being Awareness that manifests in
>childhood. However there are other concepts that
>describe the same condition; Jivanmukti, or Tantrika
>Siddha, Mahasiddha, Mahasakti.
>
>Tantra is a very secretive sadhana, and is older than
>the Vedas, older than Adam and Eve, for it is the
>Continuum. Some sadhakas follow a system that involves
>use of the sex organs, Kundalini ojas etc, and this
>is misunderstood by Westerners and Hindu
>Fundamentalists particularly.
>
> Not by all Hindus, the more enlightened Vedantists
>are more understanding of what it is, even if it is
>not their 'bag', so to speak, like myself. One first
>has to understand that morality is relative to a
>society and that there is ultimately no bad or good,
>only that which achieves Moksha. This tantric system
>is called antinomianism, pratilo-man, against the
>norm, paravritti-inversion, Mai-thuna or ritualised
>sexual intercourse.
>
>Tantra is quite secretive but there are some hints,
>starting with Siva/Sakti, quoting the Artharva Veda,
>Magic-Conjuring, Ateeta-Sakti-Hynotism,(mass
>hypnotism), smoking Bhanga, Vijaya, (Cannabis).
>
>Bliss is bliss, sexual bliss is fleeting but it is the
>Sakti. This is why people are attached to it, it is
>the nearest they get to the ecstasy, of Samadhi. It
>is used by some tantric schools to induce sustained
>ecstasy leading to a kind of Savikalpa Samadhi,
>obviously not Nirvikalpa.
>
>They say it is possible for one Tantrika
>Siddha,(Mahasiddha/Avatar), to raise, or lift the
>karma of entire humanity. This has never been achieved
>by any Avatar or Divine Descent yet! So-Ham by the way
>is a tantric mantra. It is my belief that much of the
>misunderstanding, is due to ignorance of the tantra,
>and energies etc.
>
>My guess is that these tales we hear, from time to
>time, from all over, about strange group sex and dope
>etc are due to this misunderstanding. Unless one can
>take one's mind back before religion and even back
>beyond the Tantric parable of Adam and Eve, back
>before right and wrong, one will not understand any of
>this. Not all Tantra is overtly sexual of course.
>What is good in one age may be the reverse in another
>age, it is all relative. The big block to
>understanding spirituality and liberation is
>unnecessary fundamentalism. West or East.
>
>
>Love, Tony.
>
>
>=====
>Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
>
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
>THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
>MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
>OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
>_________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>Unsubscribe from this list by sending email to:
>kundalini-unsubscribeATnospamtopica.com
>
>_____________________________
>Get your favorite topic delivered daily.
>http://www.topica.com/t/11
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:31:17 -0500
From: "Hudson N. Jackson II" <h2jacksonATnospamprodigy.net>
Subject: Hi.
For some folks out there, I hope your holiday season was cool. :-)
I finally got the repression issue straightened out. I've been *trying*
all sorts of ways to get an answer as to what it is, without success
until this past weekend. I finally got my answer when I was "presented"
with a woman I was attracted to - but never talked to - a few years ago.
. . and now I'm being given a lesson on what love *really* is. So, at
night, I've already been taught how to tell whether I actually love her,
or if more attitude exercises are necessary. It's more of how I feel
than what I do, actually, so I have to focus more on that. This voice -
I guess it's hers - keeps teasing me quite a bit with this "dirt" stuff.
She says more of that's necessary in order for me to get beyond my
current state.
It's cold on the East Coast now, and as a result, the internal heater
has automatically switched on (finally). It's gotten to a point now
where I can go outside during the middle of the day, in subfreezing
weather, without a coat, and walk down the street to pick up lunch and
head back into the office without freezing. I've got a cold now
apparently (and the post-nasal drip that's been around for months
doesn't help matters), but I haven't had a fever yet. I just have to
drink more fluids and dry my hair in the morning before going outside,
that's all.
At night time, I have only one sheet on my bed now, even during the
winter, and wear little, as I will start sweating if I have too much on.
This is the second year that the internal heater has worked so well at
night. By the way, this internal heater I speak of is a side-effect of
kundalini.
I also have found it interesting that I can actually cram for tests at
the last minute, literally, and still manage to remember almost
everything when I walk into the classroom. To date, on only one
occasion did I get less than an A when doing this. . . although I
wouldn't recommend anyone do what I've done; I have quite a busy
schedule that leaves little time for studying and little privacy. I
couldn't get away with this a few years ago, before I started
experiencing the usual kundalini phenomenon.
Few temper tantrums, also. This is getting real good. And I haven't
even meditated in a long, looooooooooooong time.
By the way, Angelique, I was going to ask you something, but I see that
it's already been done. I was quite surprised that the list moved; I
didn't realize it until I found that the messages were stuck in the in
box (usually, they'll move to where I tell it to on their own). Given
the length of the digests, I was going to ask if you set it up to
include a table of contents, but since it was automatically done
recently, I'll just thank you. :-) It truly makes my life easier!
In case I don't get time to read anything else here this week, I want to
wish you all a Happy New Year. . . hope that Y2K prob. doesn't bite.
;-)
- Hudson
------------------------------
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