kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 208 1 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer ) Subject: Chakras-Fingers-Channels Several people asked where I got my information about the parts of the hand reflecting the chakras and the concept that the left and right channels represent past/present etc. Sorry it took so long. I often remember what I read, but am lousy at bibliographical recollection. In addition to what is here there were points made at lectures on the subject. The questions that people had seemed to indicate that the information presented here is not universal. I guess that I thought there was just one accepted viewpoint on this stuff - now I find out that there are supposed to be 12,000 (or some huge number) chakras and that different groups have different placements of the chakras, etc. Anyway, the URL for the info that I was speaking of is: http://www.halcyon.com/sahajnet/chakras.html 2 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 From: Mark Rivera Subject: Re: Words From Einstein That was a fantastic quotee I have another one to share from old Al, "Nature shows us only the tail of the lion." 3 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 From: Antaris Ra Subject: N o Saturday Night Feeber tonight Beloved Ones: It is cool in Paraguay and in North-America, too so there is no kundalini hot - (feeber) tonight - but may be with you directly right now so do it - and let have you no influence from nobody how is not inthe LIGHT LOVE simply is Antaris 4 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 From: windows Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center BCALMATNOSPAMGREENHEART.COM wrote: > Unfortunately the term Kundalini itself is still > normally taken as something related to Yoga or strictly Indian or > Eastern, while actually it exists in all traditions under different > names and in somewhat different forms, such as kalabah (sp?) and Chi,or > Holy Spirit in action, for instance. But basically it is the mechanism > of the evolution of human mind as Gopi Ksrishna genuinely speculated. - Hello all. I'm new here and am dealing with much recent K activity. Just a few words above the above said by greenheart. I must preface this with the admission that this comes only from personal observation of the experiences involved. The chi or prana mentioned in all regions is the basic lifeforce all have. It is active in all people. The kundalini is a mechanism further down the line from this. it is more intense, more driven. But in the end it is chi, or prana. In meditation, chi is observable and can be felt and watched through practice, but this is not true full kundalini activity. Maybe this is a better way to say it. I think the kundalini is active in all to some extent, but when it becomes fully aroused it is a wholly different and more powerful experience. (and our birthright!) My own experiences say this - I can feel and watch the energy (tingle and warm). But there have been a few supreme moments when a pure white energy has shot up my spine into my head my body became 'etheric' and I stopped breathing. So my experiences have been 'the kundalini awakening' not a full kundalini awakening. thank you for listening to my patter! Bye from Veda002! - 5 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 From: Mark Rivera Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center I have to agree with windows, Kundalini is supposedly dorment within us upon birth. Guru's can awaken the Kundalini and teach one how to control it or at least deal with it through Shakti-Pat initiation, though this is not the only way to awaken the Kundalini. Sometimes being around others who have had their's awakened is enough to get one interested. My friend studies and practices Chi and has had his Kundalini awakened through our mutual Guru during a Shakti Pat initiation. He said that the Shakti is far stronger or more powerful than the Chi. I find the clensing process of Kundalini awkening to be tough, but support from others and meditation as well as the knowledge that human beings have a control over how fast they choose to go forward is a comfort. I also think that many other religions, sciences, and philosophies and even poets have a strong corelation with the Kundalini. Also mythology. Sincerely, Mark 6 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 From: Sandrak Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Ramain, where can i get a copy of your book? the one on the holy spirit and k? 7 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 From: Paco Subject: re: ((experience(Juliet)) && say_hi) Howdy to anybody out there... Read Juliet's response about that cool experience post... Bladerunner is rad. Did you ever read The Hinterlands by William Gibson? Did you ever see that TV show Reboot? Or that Japanese animation movie The Ghost in the Machine? That is all radical. In Neuromancer there is this "person" that is really personality on a digital storage device, a dead person that was recorded, and it's alive and talks and thinks, but in reality it's not conscious it's like a program, and when it stops it just is like erased. Trippy huh? Like it knows it's there, it acts and is conscious, yet it is just like an electronic shadow of the person, and when it's gone there's no trace of it, like it was never really there in the first place but when it's there it knows it's there. Is that cool? Cyberpunk rocks!!! This all pertains to the references and subreferences to the footnotes of the bibliography of past list posts blah blah blah out ---Paco P.S. I've been busy a for a while, but I read the posts when I have time - 8 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Natha Bhaktyananda Subject: Re: prana & kundalini Veda002 (?!) has written: The chi or prana mentioned in all regions is the basic lifeforce all have. It is active in all people. The kundalini is a mechanism further down the line from this. it is more intense, more driven. But in the end it is chi, or prana. In meditation, chi is observable and can be felt and watched through practice, but this is not true full kundalini activity. ---------------------------- No, definitely kundalini and prana (or chi) are not one and the same thing. Prana is corresponding to the Western concept of Energy, while kundalini represents the process of resonance by which *a lot of energy* will transit through one's system. - I think the kundalini is active in all to some extent, but when it becomes fully aroused it is a wholly different and more powerful experience. (and our birthright!) ----------------------- If you consider 0.001% to be "some extent", then maybe your statement is right. Else no; let us not make again the mistake of thinking that having *energy* in some chakra (like when some emotions occur, for instance) automatically means an arousing of kundalini. - Blessings, -- Natha Bhaktyananda K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668 - 9 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Juliet Subject: The Rolf Report Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on Rolfing. I decided to give it a shot, and had the first session in the middle of last week. 2nd (of 10 total) is scheduled today. However, the Rolfer claimed she was able to go much deeper than usual because of my yoga practice. First let me say that I am experimenting with this as an augmentation of my regular hatha practice--with the idea that there would be a synergism between the two. So far I'm hopeful: The Rolfer (a woman of about 60 who studied with Ida Rolf) has intergrated some yogic breathing into her work. I don't think this is part of the regular Rolfing practice. She had me do Ujayii (aspirated nostril) breathing throughout the whole session, focusing the breath on the area she was working with directly. Although the treatment is completely systemic, she focused somewhat on my left shoulder where I have a (yoga) injury and chronic energy blocks (manifesting as both subjective subtle and physical problems in that area). A lot of toxicity form (formerly) smoking seems to be locked up in the scramble there as well. Following the session (for the next two or three days) I noticed the subtle symptoms (kind of sub-visual energetic patterns) that I have come to associate with detox and energy reorganization and progression. And the hatha postures of my regular ashtanga series seemed to have additional (subtle) coherence. I work up this morning with more right/left integration than I have ever felt. So, we'll see. I think it holds promise. The big drawback is that it's kind of expensive. juliet - 10 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: ori^ Subject: Process of Resonance I'm not sure if Natha or Veda002 wrote the following: >Prana is corresponding to the Western concept of Energy, while >kundalini represents the process of resonance by which *a lot of energy* >will transit through one's system. I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of resonance. Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means. It is the resonance which allows the free-flow of spirit to pass through us which then acts as a catalyst for the rising of the kundalini. This resonance is what I believe is at play with experiences like that reported by the person who posted last week about affecting the flow of kundalini in another. And when the resonance is set up consciously with another... whew! I have not read anything about resonance... I know only that the concept flagged me down on a very deep intuitional level. I feel it is a very basic part of existence which is not attended to in much of our western culture lifestyles. It is very subtle and yet so dynamic. Resonance makes the universe sing. Random thoughts and wonderings from, ori^ ****** * ori^ * * oriATNOSPAMeskimo.com * * http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html * ****** - 11 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer ) Subject: Hallmark Moment Again So far, I have done a fairly good job of devising explanations of apparently psychic phenomena in terms of heightened sensitivity and perception. The ability to pick out 'perfect' greeting cards from a display rack without reading them is one phenomena that eludes my analytic explanations. Traditional psychiatrists call many psychic phenomena 'delusions of reference'. For example, a significant event occurs and the subject's subconscious constructs a belief 'backward in time' that the event was 'forseen'. I am well aware of this and that is why I have never reported any 'psychic-appearing' personal episode that is not verifiable by a witness - most often my wife Karen. If an episode is totally in my experience, without witnesses or possible observer, I always say so and also take such with a 'grain of salt' myself. However, those that have been witnessed, I look at more closely and try to see it in the perspective of possible-due-to-heightened- sensory-awareness. With that 'caveat', on to the Hallmark Moment Again. We were in Pack & Save and Karen needed a birthday card for her brother. She turned to me and says, "Well, can you do it again?" I knew she was referring to my previous episode of picking out two cards for different occasions and people that were unbelievably perfect. I told her that I don't turn this perception on and off like a faucet but... and reached over to the rack, pulled out a card and handed it to her. My brother-in-law is a 'low-motivational' kind of guy to say the least and after his basal body needs are met has only two interests in life - drinking beer (mass quantities) and watching TV. The card said on the front (which was hidden from view until pulled from the rack), "You may be another year older, but you can still engage in your two favorite sports." Opening the card, it read on the inside, "Just don't spill beer on the remote control, Happy Birthday" , and showed a couch-potato in a recliner watching TV, with a remote control in one hand and a beer in the other! I don't know if others see the 'perfection' of this card, but Karen and I do. OK you traditionalists, I am at a loss for a 'rational' explanation. This makes three times now - are you going to say that Karen is sharing my delusion-? - 12 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: traveler Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center At 07:10 PM 10/27/96 -0800, you wrote: >Ramain, >where can i get a copy of your book? >the one on the holy spirit and k? > > Dear Ramain, I would really like to hear about how you link together Catholicism and the k. Would you consider sharing with us a few of your observations? Part of my path now is to learn about the many different interpretations of the k and to open my heart and mind to what is said. Thanks, traveler 13 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: "L.D. McClanahan" Subject: Kundalini & Energy Dimensions The subject has been brought up comparing Kundalini with Chi and other labels of this form of subtle energy. From my reading it appears that the Yogas refer to three separate areas or Doshas of Kapha, Vata, and Pitta that traverse the chest, throat, especially stomach; colon, hips; and small intestine, stomach. The Yogas five elements sound too mythical for my comprehension (See The Yoga of Herbs). Barbara Ann Brennan in Hands of Light refers to three separate independent dimensions encompasing the auras, likely the emphasis of the Yogas; the Kundalini, soul seat near the heart chakra; and the hara. Apparently each of these dimensions is orthogonal or independent in the statistical sense because auric vision must change frequencies to visualize each of these dimensions. What makes this area particularly abstruse is that the Kundalini energy rising from the base of the spine has three separate colors or energy frequencies, and if they do not rise simultaneously severe physical and psychological symptoms accrue. Further complicating the picture is the way that mystical, out-of-body, and Kundalini experiences are reported and seem to overlap. Robert Monroe in Ultimate Journey reports three separate "bodies" which strip off during OBSs, the last may correspond with the soul seat frequencies reported by Barbara Ann Brennan. The first is the physical body. Each of these bodies likely corresponds to higher chakra levels, and/or the hara and soul seat. The difficulty with any more "scientific explanation" of these issues is the lack of instrumentation for measurement, and the best that we have are self reports of those with auric vision or reports of anamolous experiences via OBSs or NDEs. Yet, often self reports are very unreliable as humans can always fit a "reason" between two parsdoxes of experience. This is a very worthy area for members of this chat list to explore. Raising the Kundalini is one issue with all its access to subtle if not paranormal abilities. How to conceptualize "awakening" in a more global, systemic, scientific, religious, energy system another. The "truth" is like that Greek Goddess. L. D. 14 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Peter Norton Subject: Re: Process of Resonance ori^ wrote: > > I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of > resonance. Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of > what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means. > It is the resonance which allows the free-flow of spirit to pass > through us which then acts as a catalyst for the rising of the > kundalini. Hi, there is a lot of interesting stuff being discovered about the 'microtubule' fine structure of neurons: they are like resonant flutes (maybe) in the sense that they can respond to and sustain 'standing waves' of acoustic/light energy and can induce this energy across cell boundaries. They may also be analogous to lasers, so the white-light shooting up the spine may be a lasing effect in the microtubules. They are fundamentally Quantum in behavior, so they would also exhibit the characteristic nonlocal behavior of all Quantum phenomena. e.g. mind-mind transmission. This may be a clue as to what the biology behind kundalini and the etheric light body etc. is. but I am only wildly perspeculating of course. Check with your personal Theatrical Physicist before trying this out. microtubule Web page: http://www.reed.edu/~rsavage/microtubules.html On a personal note, I have had two minor experiences of this contact-high phenomenon. Once sitting next to my wife I felt a head-rush start and focused on it without telling her anything or moving, and she right away asked me what was going on and to stop it, said she was getting dizzy. It went away. Another time my wife was on a meditation retreat a hundred miles away, and unbeknownst to me, focused on sending me energy, and I woke up with an intense body rush. We later compared times and discovered I was sleeping at the same time she was doing the meditation. Anyway, just another amusing (hopefully) anecdote ... cheers 15 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Peter Norton Subject: Re: Hallmark Moment Again Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote: >I am at a loss for a 'rational' explanation. This makes three times now >- are you going to say that Karen is sharing my delusion-? Hi, funny story! There is no rational explanation, as far as I know. It is all a dream! I would recommend the book - 'Synchronicity, the Bridge Between Matter and Mind' by F. David Peat Also, Jung's quote in his introduction to the I Ching: "One sleeps much better at night if one does not think too deeply about the theory of the I Ching." -Carl Jung (quoted from fallible memory) Also Suzuki Roshi's quote in 'Zen Mind Beginner's Mind': - "Our way is just to ride on the train. If we look too closely at the rails underneath, we get dizzy." -Suzuki Roshi (quoted from fallible memory) anyway, sounds like you are having fun with it! cheers - 16 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert ) Subject: Re: Process of Resonance ori^ wrote: > I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of > resonance. Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of > what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means. - > I feel > it is a very basic part of existence which is not attended to in > much of our western culture lifestyles. It is very subtle and > yet so dynamic. Resonance makes the universe sing. > In Budhism, there is the concept of "9th consciousness." It is through this that all of us are connected together. It is the reason that sincere prayer works, clarivoyance works, distant healing works, mind-reading works, etc. In sanscrit it is called the amala-consciousness. The "8th consciousness, the alaya-consciousness, is our karmic storehouse and is similar to Carl Jung's "colective unconscious". The 7th is our inner thoughts and ponderings; thinking. Our 6th is our brain reacting to the signals from our five senses. The 5th through the 1st are our five senses. What is special about the 9th consciousness is that it is the absolutely pure, sacred, untarnishable (by karma) universal life that exists in each of us. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect it is the equivalent of the Christian concept of "soul". In Nichiren Shoshu/SGI Buddhism, it is called Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. I believe it is much deeper than the "resonance" you speak of, although some sort of resonance may play a part in the phenomena described, or be another way of looking at it. 17 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer ) Subject: Reiki - I already have my head pulled in like a turtle for protection - the last time I mentioned the word Reiki, I was cheered by some and whumped about the head and shoulders by others. Some beat the old drum that psi-phenomena are 'traps', 'trip points', attractions that should be ignored, avoided as they distract one from the pursuit of the 'true goal', of enlightenment itself. To that I say these phenomena are of immense value to me, they have convinced me of the validity of spirituality-vs-hard scientific proofs, are signposts along the way, have been of immense help in understanding myself and others and have been instrumental in help them in many ways. When I post an experience it also serves others who are going through the same paths, validates them, and lessens the anxiety caused when that which seems outre occurs to them. Makes all of us seem less 'alone' and may reduce the tendency by some to become 'preachy' and 'elitist' as they view their experience as GOD raising them above other men. My experience IS unique - so is yours - and so is hers and his. The touchstones and signposts are what are shared - among them are the psi-phenomena - so THERE!, spleen vented, I feel much better, am READY for the tirade to follow my post =-). - I have been giving Karen a type of cuddling/massage/touch since my K-awakening. Completely instinctual, just felt like the thing to do, and Karen LOVES it. Odd reactions from others, Karen's sister broke down and cried while watching me do it to Karen - said she never felt such love in her life - weird! Anyway, Karen's mom sent her a book that she never had the opportunity to read and Sunday she dug it out and handed it to me. She knew that I had given her sister a less-than-glowing report of my 'impressions' of the Reiki instruction that had taken a bite out of her wallet and thought that maybe it would be a good thing to actually know something about it that was in print rather than just 'in ether'. Said she recalled that a chapter mentioned Reiki specifically. I took the book located the chapter about Reiki and turn to the first set of illustrations (hand positions for Reiki healing at the chakra centers). Without saying a word, I turned the book to Karen and asked if the illustrations looked familiar. She simply looked at them and said, "That's exactly what you have been doing to me these last months." I was a little disappointed by her lack of surprise and asked her why she wasn't. She just said, "I think I am getting used to this stuff, after the 'Exorcist-Linda Blair' episode this morning, I don't think ANYTHING will surprise me again!" She was right, though, the entire set of Reiki positions illustrated were exactly those I had been using instinctually. As an interesting aside, I took her to the retinologist on Friday and he was surprised and delighted to report that her diabetic retinopathy AND vision have improved measureably since her last visit - not unheard-of, but not very common either as Diabetic Retinopathy is a degenerative disorder - we will see what happens. - 18 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Juliet Subject: Natha's challenge (was prana & k) Natha Bhaktyananda wrote: > > If you consider 0.001% to be "some extent", then maybe your statement > is > right. Else no; let us not make again the mistake of thinking that > having *energy* in some chakra (like when some emotions occur, for > instance) automatically means an arousing of kundalini. Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?) terms. After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered) subject. I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically-- to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is actually kundalini. Can we do it??? Maybe we could evolve a FAQ (if only Richard was going to keep the list going)... Juliet - 19 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Juliet Subject: Re: Kundalini & Energy Dimensions L.D. McClanahan wrote: > > Apparently > each of these dimensions is orthogonal or independent in the > statistical > sense because auric vision must change frequencies to visualize each > of > these dimensions. I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but it sounds similar to what I get: I get (at least) three different "levels" of body scan--one kind of like a blueprint or x-ray, one which is streams of "energy" and one which is in symbolic, picture language which maps onto/correlates with the body in a more abstract way (body movement can influence composition of image)... I shift focus similar to the way one might focus on one voice or another in a group of people speaking simultaneously. Does this correspond to other's experience here? - [big snip> > we have are self reports of those with auric vision or reports of > anamolous experiences via OBSs or NDEs. Yet, often self reports are > very unreliable as humans can always fit a "reason" between two > parsdoxes of experience. > This is a very worthy area for members of this chat list to > explore. Raising the Kundalini is one issue with all its access to > subtle if not paranormal abilities. How to conceptualize "awakening" > in > a more global, systemic, scientific, religious, energy system another. Here, here! Please see "Natha's Challange" > The "truth" is like that Greek Goddess. L. D. What Greek Goddess was that, exactly? Must have been a concubine of Hermes/Mercury at any rate... :-) Juliet - 20 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 From: Juliet Subject: Coincidence!!?? I think not! (was: Hallmark Moment Again) Peter Norton wrote: > > I would recommend the book > > 'Synchronicity, the Bridge Between Matter and Mind' > by F. David Peat > (etc.) Or, for those of us too lazy to get books... http://www.disinfo.com/CC/newsci/CC_newsci_23.html The 2nd one (Michael Talbot) is especially great!