'kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 197 

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: WHY??

davelong wrote:
> 
> Rondi McBoyer wrote:
> 
> > Dear davelong,
> > I have been reading your diatribes and lectures for many weeks without
> > saying anything, but now I really must ask you... WHY? what is it that
> > makes you continue to post to a group of people who obviously are not
> > interested in your point of view?   I wait for your answer, Rondi
> 
> Hello, Rondi, and to the others who expressed similar sentiments.
> 
> Although a large part of Kundalini involves a great loss of being
> understandable to others, I usually try to make sure that what I
> write is as clear and concise as possible, and is not misconstrued.
> 
> Alas, many of the things I have written on the list violates the tenets
> I was taught. The first tenet is secrecy. One must not divulge to
> others the core experience of Kundalini: the vision of God. There are
> many good reasons for doing so. Others should come to recognize the
> Light, rather than being told about it. Then, there are issues of
> personal safety, and being free to develop as God and grace see fit.
> 
> Another tenet I had violated was that no knowledge is to be given
> unless it is asked for. The recipient has to be ready to receive it.
> 
> These tenets were taught to me by my teacher. Lucky, indeed, are they
> who are blessed with a competent Kundalini teacher! We shared many
> inspiring talks on the nature of God, and the path to Him. After a
> time, his words would start to focus more and more on the subject of
> morality. At first, I would listen lightly, and nod, and not really
> understand the import of his words. But after a while, I began to
> really listen to what he had to say, and it just opened my eyes.
> I was hearing true wisdom, coming from a really loving heart.
> 
> Many of the ideas you had read expressed in my posts were really
> paraphrases of his own words. That they came across as mean, or hateful,
> or spiteful, only attests to my own lack of being an adequate relayer
> of the wonderful, loving lessons I had learned from him.
> 
> The important message I wanted to offer is that morality is the prime
> prerequisite for advancement along the path. That's just Reality.
> 
> Allow me to say that should you or anyone have any questions about the
> process, the answers will come if it be the will of God. A teacher
> always
> accompanies an active Kundalini, should God so will the soul to advance.
> Hence, there should be no anxiety about this. Kundalini is taught and
> transmitted from person-to-person, not digitized-bytes-to-person. Find
> a traditional religion; one which reveres a dead person is usually the
> safest. There is the Vedanta Society, founded by a disciple of Sri
> Ramakrishna. There are especially great teachers to be found in the
> three desert religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They are the
> safest, easiest paths, with centuries of cumulative wisdom.
> 
> I apologize for any pain and confusion my words may have brought to
> others.
> 
> Regards,
> David

David,
-	What a beautiful and honest representation of your feelings, I
understand where you are coming from. And, what you have shared here is
from the heart and I do appreciate it. Thank you. Gloria



Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Re: davelong and Natha

Paco wrote:

> The real harm in your attitude is that you demand that
> people shut themselves off from who they are, in order to
> "change". Evolution is about consciousness, and consciousness
> inside you all the time.
> 
> You should never promote an attitude that humans are evil.

Hello, Paco. Thanks for writing. You have never heard me say that
people are evil, and I will never promote an attitude that people
are evil. Demons are evil. Actions/words/thoughts can sometimes
be evil. But people are never evil, even those who are evil-doers.
Likewise, one should never promote an attitude that there is no
evil at all.

> I believe true morality comes from your heart, not from
> rules. You have to find guidance from within, you have to believe
> in your own goodness, trust yourself. Or else, what are you?
> Some stupid Yahoo that needs to memorize a bunch of rules in
> order to not create an unholy mess of everything. Then if people
> are like that, then I suppose you need a police state and church
> to keep them all in line. Because that would mean that people are
> evil, worthless and without reason.

> *THERE IS GOODNESS INSIDE OF PEOPLE. To my mind, this gets
> to the core issue of everything we are talking about. *
> I mean, you're searching, digging, striving, meditating
> to find what's on the inside. But there's love and goodness in
> there, right? You can trust your inner being, right?
> Don't let rules and phoney morality be your way
> of running from it, fighting it. Hey, sexual control can be useful,
> can feel very right, is sometimes necessary. But I will tell you
> that you will find your true obstacles and lessons if you let yourselves
> live your lives.

It may be fine for Paco, who has the spiritual maturity and mental
faculties to make his own decisions without the use of any rules of
society or religion; but what about the children, who look to adults
to see how they should behave? They are the forgotten and inconvenient
ones in our emerging moral-liberal culture of "DoYourOwnThing" and
"AllowMeToBeIrresponsibleAndI'llAllowYouAllToPayTheConsequencesOfMy
Irresponsibility"

> I read somewhere that "When the Great Goddess Kundalini
> opens her eyes, the entire Universe is created.  And when she
> closes them, the Universe is destroyed."

And I have read somewhere:

"So lawlessness will bring the whole earth the ruin
 and evil-doing bring down the thrones of the mighty."
	-Wisdom 5:24

"For creation, in obedience to you, its maker,
 exerts itself to punish the wicked
 and slackens for the benefit of those who trust in you.
 Thus it became, by a total transformation,
 the agent of your all-nourishing bounty,
 conforming to the wish of those in need,
- so that your beloved children, Lord, might learn
 that the various crops are not what nourished man,
 but your word which preserves all who trust in you."
	-Wisdom 16:24-26



Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Kundalini & Kabbalah Experiment Update
-
Hi everyone:

Just thought that some of you might like an update on the K1 & K2
experiment.

On a personal level I've been doing my own meditation exercises 
to bring the energy down and finding that this is now starting to 
awaken feelings around the base of my spine. It has only been 
three days but promising.
-
I had one very interesting post from someone studying reiki which 
also concentrates on bringing energy down from  the crown and 
through the heart to the patient (reiki being a healing art). As a
result of his practices he had been having images when ever he closes
his eyes and rests, be it sleep, meditation, or whatever. 

It would seem that the action of bringing energy down that is important 
rather than it being any particular technique such as Kabbalah or Reiki. 
There was a further question about how to work on dreams. I can only 
describe the method I use but there must be many others equally
effective.

The purpose of this technique is to get a dialogue going between the
"you" and the "Self". What I do is write down the dream or image and
then try to understand the images involved. Assume that all the images,
symbols or people in the dream are parts of you and do NOT relate to the
external world. The works of Carl Jung and others are helpful in this
respect but this is not trying to learn Jungian analysis just developing
an understanding of how dreams work.
-
Last thing at night I go over the dreams from the previous night and try
to fall asleep thinking of them. With luck this seeds the next night's
dreams and allows one to repeat the process. After a time it is as
though one is having a conversation with the other half of yourself.

This cycle of dream and intellectual or emotional work on the dream
seems to integrate the substance or subject of the dream into ones
being. I think different people will develop different styles but the
core is to take the dream seriously and spend time trying to understand
it. Your intuition should do the rest.

There were two other post which agreed with the basic concept of
balancing K with Crown energy, these were:

1)  I believe this to be true, and have told people many times 
although I don't know if they listened or not.  In Chinese chi kung, 
energy is brought up the spine as in kundalini and then DOWN THE FRONT
to complete the cycle. This is called the microcosmic orbit, and it
balanced yin and yang energies through the chakras.  To leave energy
building up at the head is quite dangerous and most people let it either
fizzle out or it has to blast out the top of their head.... i.e.
headaches and such.

2)  Well, I have noticed that when I did lower chakra meditation and
bringing energy up from Earth, I got uncomfortable K side effects, but
now that I've advanced to a full meditation program with all chakras
involved and a lot of energy downflow (white light) also, I find that
side effects are diminished and the uneasiness is gone. So I do think 
that there might be some truth in what you're suggesting, although my
experiments are just beginning...

There was one warning post but I guess you all saw that. It would be
nice to have some clarification on it through.

ciao.

Christopher Williams  


-
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: [Fwd: boredom]



Sorry

My computer is playing tricks again - active k.
-
jan


Hi

I've just marked a huge stack of papers and feel brain dead and there are 
no messages to kick start me.  When k starts to flow again, as it has for 
the past week, unbidden by me at least, I get restless and laughter often
dispells and reorganizes my priorities.  So...
-
Question:  How many K people does it take to change a light bulb?


Any takers?

jan



-

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Kundalini & Kabbalah Experiment Update

Christopher Williams wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone:
> 
> Just thought that some of you might like an update on the K1 & K2
> experiment.
> [snipped]


	Learning to decode your dreams is a very important part of the self
remembering process. If you see your dreams as night work, in the same
way as you use a body in the day for day work, then eventually you will
recognize that they are both dealing with the same center of focus which
is the now. Time is an illusion right, what you do during the night
hours is actually the creative process working to create the next day.
When you are able to decode your experiences you will notice that they
are two sides of the same coin. And, you can work out what you are doing
while in the dream state. I've always experienced the out of boy state
and in body state as one, and because of it the self remembering is
powerful. It is not unusual for me to recognize people from my dream, or
to know exactly what is coming down because of having already been
through it. The message from your soul is awake. Or put another way, Man
know thyself. Gloria

-


Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: [Fwd: boredom]

K. people glow so brightly, they don't need light bulbs.
or
One to change it, two to ground that person, plus the electrician to replace
everything, when they fry the whole circut instead.
or
3. One to keep changin em, one to keep bringin em, and one to do whatever
they needed light for.
or
K. people don't need lightbulbs, they hold a candle flame in thier heads.
or
K. people don't need lightbulbs, they just rub together in the dark, and
read by the sparks.
or 
well, that's my ready supply.Blessings, Angelique.
>Hi
>
>I've just marked a huge stack of papers and feel brain dead and there are 
>no messages to kick start me.  When k starts to flow again, as it has for 
>the past week, unbidden by me at least, I get restless and laughter often
>dispells and reorganizes my priorities.  So...
>
>Question:  How many K people does it take to change a light bulb?
>
->
>Any takers?
>
>jan
>



Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 
From: maxmatusATNOSPAMmbox.vol.it
Subject: Inner Dialogue

Patanjali wrote:

"Yogas chitta vritti nirodha" that means (sorry for my english :) "Yoga is
stopping (arresting) the modification of the mind" (Stop thinking!)

Do you keep your mind in silence only in meditation, or you try to keep it
in silence all the time?

Massimo.



Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 
From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Re: Inner Dialogue

At 11:21 AM 10/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
>Patanjali wrote:
->
>"Yogas chitta vritti nirodha" that means (sorry for my english :) "Yoga is
>stopping (arresting) the modification of the mind" (Stop thinking!)
>
>Do you keep your mind in silence only in meditation, or you try to keep it
>in silence all the time?
>
>Massimo.
>
>
-     I think that Massimo's message here says a lot about the
     current state of this mailing list.

     Jim



Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: [Fwd: boredom]
-
You wrote: How many K people does it take to change a light bulb?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
None, the light bulb doesn't need to be changed, it just is.
Dan R-F -D



Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: The Unimportance of Kundalini

spoiler: ranting follows, hit your delete key NOW:

(please pardon my perpetuating this puerile pthread...)

in short, it seems to me, the question is:

  'What role does the discussion, practice, or cultivation of
   Kundalini have in a traditional religion, 
-   where resentful priests administer dogmatic morality to a 
   credulous flock?'

in short, it seems to me, davelong and I agree the answer is:

  None.

in short, it seems to me, the advice for those with K is:

  'When you pray, go into your closet and shut the door.'
-
(hmm, where have I heard that before?)

I wonder if the experience of K is not very threatening to 
the power role of a traditional priest. It makes a priest
almost completely irrelevant, since they are not needed to
administer any sacraments, which administer themselves in 
the case of K.  Perhaps this is why priesthoods resent
and discourage and actively inhibit any experience of K
among their flock?
-
But of course, there will always be flocks who want priests
to look up to.  So priests will always have job security.
They should not worry when one or two of their flock
mutate into K and have no more need of priestly sermons and 
priestly eucharists.

Thinking about all this motivates me to reread Nietzsche's 
'Genealogy of Morals' and 'Beyond Good and Evil' to clear
the air of flatus.  But of course, Nietzche's own pathological 
K awakening, is almost an argument for the need for oily priests to 
mumble meaningless charms and administer magic potions
to the soul-sick.  O Zarathustra!  Where are you now?


davelong wrote:
> 
> In a time when religion becomes mocked, and notions such as morality
> and guilt are considered passe in the pop culture, what role should
> Kundalini energy play in turning around the cultural destruction?
-
a big role, I would think.

> Look at something so basic as the 10 Commandments, which
> most of us were taught. They can be distilled into this
> statement: "Don't be cruel to oneself. Don't be cruel to
> others. Don't be cruel to God. In other words: Be kind."
> Now, if you teach this wisdom to the people, it brings
> about a much better result than were you to start teaching
> them how to see God. And besides, the 10 Commandments are
> going to be a requisite, anyway, to the vision of God in the
> 6th chakra.

why is it always either/or?  dont we need both?  knee jerk
morality can perpetuate ignorance just as easily as amorality
if it is not informed by experience of God via K.

> Just look at our current materialist pop culture, which says
> you are nothing if you are not successful, not wealthy, not
> young, not strong, not fashionable, not healthy, and not
> without all the 'right' proportions. What should Kundalini
> say to this cultural plight of wrong values? You are
> nothing if your Kundalini isn't activated? If you haven't
> been to the xth chakra? Rather, Kundalini should advance and
> champion the traditional religious values in society.

exactly.  No doubt Americans will find a way to make K
a status symbol accessible only to the rich and beautiful. 
ref. 'Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism' - by Trungpa
Rinpoche.
-
> ##> Even for those who find themselves in the throes of
> ##> an active kundalini, I wonder about the direction
> ##> and efficacy such discussions should take. I mean, what
> ##> does one talk about? Should focus be given to the
> ##> strange and wonderful experiences? Why should they be
> ##> aired at all, since they are only traps along the way?
> 
> > except that since it is so unknown in this culture, it is
> > easy to feel like you're all alone and going crazy.  Many,
> > many people have been institutionalized unnecessarily.
> > Isnt this reason enough to talk about it?
> 
> Another question you might ask is if more
> HARM would come from the dissemination of Kundalini than
> in any rescue of the institutionalized. I would hazard a
> guess that the institutions would become fuller of valid
> patients.

Just say NO to K?
-
Isn't this horribly, even revoltingly, elitist?
It makes my skin crawl, and my stomach heave.

yet, davelong prophesies the future clearly!
do not underestimate the power of priestly ressentiment!
when culture undergoes crisis and stress, scapegoats 
are always found.
you have been warned.  stay in the closet!

cheers



Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Kundalini & Kabbalah Experiment Update

Christopher. It has been my experience, over the years, that you can do
what  you want to direct the K. energy but one fully aroused she does as
she pleases. Love Royale