kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 195 

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: WHY??

Rondi McBoyer wrote:

> Dear davelong,
> I have been reading your diatribes and lectures for many weeks without
> saying anything, but now I really must ask you... WHY? what is it that
> makes you continue to post to a group of people who obviously are not
> interested in your point of view?   I wait for your answer, Rondi

Hello, Rondi, and to the others who expressed similar sentiments.

Although a large part of Kundalini involves a great loss of being
understandable to others, I usually try to make sure that what I
write is as clear and concise as possible, and is not misconstrued.

Alas, many of the things I have written on the list violates the tenets
I was taught. The first tenet is secrecy. One must not divulge to
others the core experience of Kundalini: the vision of God. There are
many good reasons for doing so. Others should come to recognize the
Light, rather than being told about it. Then, there are issues of
personal safety, and being free to develop as God and grace see fit.

Another tenet I had violated was that no knowledge is to be given
unless it is asked for. The recipient has to be ready to receive it.

These tenets were taught to me by my teacher. Lucky, indeed, are they
who are blessed with a competent Kundalini teacher! We shared many
inspiring talks on the nature of God, and the path to Him. After a
time, his words would start to focus more and more on the subject of
morality. At first, I would listen lightly, and nod, and not really
understand the import of his words. But after a while, I began to
really listen to what he had to say, and it just opened my eyes.
I was hearing true wisdom, coming from a really loving heart.
-
Many of the ideas you had read expressed in my posts were really
paraphrases of his own words. That they came across as mean, or hateful,
or spiteful, only attests to my own lack of being an adequate relayer
of the wonderful, loving lessons I had learned from him.

The important message I wanted to offer is that morality is the prime
prerequisite for advancement along the path. That's just Reality.

Allow me to say that should you or anyone have any questions about the
process, the answers will come if it be the will of God. A teacher
always
accompanies an active Kundalini, should God so will the soul to advance.
Hence, there should be no anxiety about this. Kundalini is taught and
transmitted from person-to-person, not digitized-bytes-to-person. Find
a traditional religion; one which reveres a dead person is usually the
safest. There is the Vedanta Society, founded by a disciple of Sri
Ramakrishna. There are especially great teachers to be found in the
three desert religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They are the
safest, easiest paths, with centuries of cumulative wisdom. 
-
I apologize for any pain and confusion my words may have brought to
others.

Regards,
David



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: List

I truly wish that we could all talk about how to improve on our
K.awakening. The book previously mentioned, "a gentle guide to K.
Awakening" is a good book for discussion. It gives step by step guidance
for re awakening K. Why dont we all read it, try it, and discuss it?
Then the topic would be right on. Just a suggestion. Royale


-
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Books. Books?

Yes Mary, a book recently discussed is "Kundalini Awakening, A Gentle
Guide to Chakra Activation and Spritual Growth" by john selby.  I
believe several members are now using this book, including myself, to
reawaken K.
It seems pretty goodand was recommended by Haakon.  I think we could
discuss it on this list is we want to. Royale



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: The Unimportance of Kundalini

Peter Norton wrote:
> 
> I was surprised to see no explicit replies to this
> essay of davelong's.

> The argument reminds me of the old battle
> against the Gnostics such as Valentinus by Bishop
> Irenaeus in the 2nd century C.E.  Gnostics were a group
> of people claiming extraordinary inner experiences and
> disparaging the 'ordinary' Christians, even Bishops,
> who hadn't gone through the transformation, and didn't
> have the 'inner eye of knowledge', and so 'didnt know
> what they were talking about'.


Hi

Irony

Dave's last posting was the story of one of the greatest Gnostics of all 
time who was not a Christian at all.  Mmmmmmm.    

jan
>



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Follow up & question about death

Royale Jills wrote:
> 
> Yes, Holly.
> I noticed when my mom died altough I wasnt there, I talked to the nurse
> at the home where she was and also my daughter who was there and they
> said that she had exteremely loud breathing for about a day before she
> died even though she was in a coma.  The nurse said they many old people
> do this kind of breathing before they die and i thought of the life
> force also. Royale

Royale,
-
	I was with a dear friend that died from breast cancer at the time of
her death. Judy was a very unusual person in that she never had
treatment for her cancer, and ... for those with weak stomachs maybe
you'll want to stop here. 

 Anyway, the cancer literally ate her breasts off it took 12 years to do
it however. Judy was deathly afraid of surgery and drugs, she never took
anything for pain until up to the last maybe six months when our friend,
who is her doctor, talked her into using percadan. Judy was still
worried about being a drug addict because she thought she could beat it.
Anyway, Judy was and is a beautiful soul, her mother cared for her
through out this experience and never bad vibed her for not doing the
traditional thing. She did get several blood transfusions in the last
year, and in spite of how really awful and ugly it looked, her mom
changed her bandages three or four times a day. She wasn't in terrible
pain at all until the end.She never lost her sense of humor and
participated in life right until the end.
	 Being with Judy at the time of her death was a gift to me, it was like
she was waiting for me to get their that day. I had been doing something
and all of a sudden she flashed to me, I dropped everything and ran
right over to her house, she was home on hospice.
	 We had spoken of this transition many times, I told her I would be
there for her, and that when the time was right we would both know it
and all that was left to do was let go. God, the angels and saints would
be with her, as she knew from the start.
	  I was a part of the transition team and was blessed to be her coach.
She told me that she knew she was an angel and that she would continue
to be near me as an angel. She always believed that God was taking care
of her and never lost that faith and knowing. At the time of Judy's
death she knew I was there, in fact, my partner, Pam and her month old
baby was with me. It was like we had life, and death, she looked at us,
tears of joy flowed down her face. Because Judy didn't fight it, she
accepted it and it was very beautiful. Bonnie, Judy's mom told me she
thought it was so appropriate to have baby
Katie there. It was like the beginning and the end were represented to
make it very real and beautiful. And the illusion of death was ugly at
all. Just something that is. Gloria


-
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: susanmayATNOSPAMdigital.net
Subject: Re: asanas for celibacy (long)

Lia,

Thanks for sharing these asanas.  There are always nice surprises on this 
list.

ATNOSPAMSue

>>I think it was Dan who asked me a LONG time ago to post some yoga poses i
had found that are supposed to help rechannel sexual energy when one is
unable to have an outlet for it. I finally found the book (in a mess of
renovations) so here they are"

>>taken from :Ashtange Yoga Primer by Baba Hari Dass

>>NOBILITY POSE (Bhadrasans)
LEG TWIST POSE (Kandapidasana)
COW'S HEAD POSE (Gomukhasana)
ADEPT'S POSE (Siddhasana)
TOE BALANCE POSE (Padangushthasana)

>>hope this all helps. the book itself has great photos (i hope i don't get
into any sort of coyright trouble by copying out the descriptions though).

enjoy and blessed be

>>Lia








Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Kundalini Krucified

[An astounding medeival view of one saint's death by decapitation. Saint
Catherine of Siena was married to Jesus. He gave her a ring which only
she
could see, but not if ever her mind strayed from her Spouse.]

Another conversion, perhaps the most dramatic of all and most characterist- ic
of Catherine's work, was that of the young Nicolo Toldo, condemned to death for
having spoken ill of the Republic. He was a nobleman of Perugia, whose
character and family background had given promise of a splendid future. He was
in the dirty jail, awaiting decapitation like a common assassin when the priest,
Tommaso Caffarini, came to speak to him of resignation. He turned upon
Caffarini furiously, blaspheming against a God who permitted such savagery. The
case was desperate. Catherine was asked to visit the young man in his cell. No
one else could relate what followed so well as the saint herself, as she did in
a letter dictated to Fra Raimondo:

"I had already received a suggestion as how to proceed - a suggestion of such
charm that the heart cannot think of it nor tongue speak, nor eye see, nor ear
hear. The will of God, among His other mysteries, preceded me; it would take
too much time to explain. I went to visit him whom you know: he received such
comfort and consolation that he was completely resigned, and went to confession.
And he made me promise, by God's love, that when his time would come I should
be with him. I promised and I was there. I went to him early that fateful
morning and he received great consolation. He assist- ed at Mass and received
Holy Communion - his first. His will was attuned to the will of God and subject
to it; there remained only a certain apprehen- sion lest he would not be strong
enough at the very end. However, the im- measurable and burning goodness of God
was his strength, inspiring him with such affection and love in the desire for
God that he kept repeating: 'Abide with me and do not abandon me!' And I held
his head on my breast and I sensed his happiness, a new odor in his blood; and
it was like the odor of mine as I long to shed it for Jesus, my Spouse. And as
this desire grew in my soul I sensed a touch of fear in him and I said: 'Take
comfort, my sweet brother; for soon we shall be admitted to the espousals. You
will be bathed in the sweet blood of the Son of God, our adored Jesus, Whom I
want you to keep ever before your mind. And I shall await you at the place of
justice. Take heed, then, my son, that you banish every fear from your heart;
let your countenance change sadness into joy!' And he was happy and exclaimed
in exultation: 'Whence should such grace be mine, that my sweet friend will be
waiting for me in the holy place of justice?' You see that he had been filled
with such light that he called holy the place of justice! Then he said, 'I
shall go forth all strong and glorious; it will seem a thousand years before I
reach there, thinking all the while that you will be waiting dor me.' And he
spoke words so sweet that they must have come straight from the goodness of God.

"So I waited for him at the place of execution; and as I waited I prayed
earnestly in the presence of Mary and Catherine, virgin and martyr. But before
reaching him I knelt down and placed my own neck on the execution- er's block;
but I was filled with revulsion - I was too filled with self- love. I rose and
I prayed again and exclaimed: 'Mary! I wish this favor, that right up to the
time of his execution he will have interior light and peace of heart so that I
may see him strong to the last.' Then my soul was filled with consolation so
that, although there was a crowd around I could not see anyone for happiness at
the promise he had made me.

"Then he came, meek as a lamb, and seeing me he began to smile; and he turned
to indicate that I was to make the sign of the cross over him. When I had done
so I said, 'Kneel down! to the nuptials, my sweet brother! Soon you will be
enjoying eternal life.' He knelt down with great meekness; and bending over him
I laid bare his neck and reminded him of the blood of the Lamb. His lips kept
murmuring 'Jesus!'...then, 'Catherine!' As he spoke my name I took his head
between my hands, reminding him of the goodness of God and I said to him: 'I
wish it!' - Then the God-Man appeared, as if in the brightness of the noon-day
sun; He appeared distinctly and received Nicolo's blood; in that blood there
was the fire of holy longing, given to him and hidden in his soul through
grace; Our Lord received it into the fire of His own divine love. Because He
had received the blood and fulfilled the youth's desire, He received his soul
and mercifully placed it in the wound in His side. Truth Itself manifested that
He received that soul by His grace and His mercy and not through any human
merit. O how sweet and ineffable to see the goodness of God! With what
tenderness and love He watched that soul as it left the body!" .... "Nicolo has
behaved with such charm as to attract a thousand hearts. And I was not
surprised, because he was already tasting the sweetness of God. He turned
slightly, as a bride would when she is about to meet her bridegroom, turning
her eyes and her head and bowing her thanks to those who have accompanied her.

"Seeing that gesture, my soul, reposed in peace and quiet, though I was faint
at the sight of the blood that covered him. Oh, how miserable I am! I cannot
say more. I remained on the ground, envying him. Do not wonder, then, that I
urge nothing more upon you than that you be nourished in the blood and the fire
that come from the side of the Son of God. Delay no longer, my dearest children,
for the blood is flowing and will give you life. My sweet Jesus; Jesus, my
love."

--Saint Catherine of Siena, [A.D. 1347-1380] -by Igino Giordani



-
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: Good book.

>  This weekend I read a really good book called "Bringers of the Dawn:
>Teachings from the Pleiadians" channelled by Barbara Marciniak.

i read this book a few years ago and it competley changed my outlook on
life, and made alot of sense out of what had been going on with my mind and
body all my life. i've read it a couple of more times since, and find every
time it brings me back to centre. (perhaps now's a good time to pick it up
again ;)

>  I found it in a new age used bookstore, It grabbed me by the antennae, and
>I could not put it down, except a few times when some big integrations
>happened, and I had to stop and shut down my logical conscousness for a few
>moments.

i had the same experience reading it. it all flows, and all makes so much sense.
-
 Much of the information won't make sense until we evolve enough to process
>it, much like a zen koan doesn't make any sense until you've been there.
>Best thing to do, submit to the process, soak up as much light as you can,
>and focus on the fact that your beliefs and desires shape your world, often
>in a very limiting fashion. Light is information. Emotion is power. You can
>follow the paths of emotion into past lives or other dimensions of being.
>Allow yourself to be confused without being frightened. Trust in the light,
>to guide you gracefully to that moment of gestalt, when your mind makes an
>evolutionary leap, and things make sense again.
-
this is very true. there are things i read in the book a few years ago,
that didnt' make sense to me then, but do now. liek how my body is changin,
like how my head feels when certain things happens to me. it is all
transformation

thanks for starting this thread Angelique. :)

Lia

-

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 
From: susanmayATNOSPAMdigital.net
Subject: Re: No compromise with Kundalini, please!

Royale said:

>>Hi P. As an astrologer I can agree with you about learning a little and
then expounding greatly, however, I do not think astrology is a
spiritual study. The Hari Krishnas have identified it as the highest of
the material studies, and I can agree with that.Love Royale

Royale,

Prafulla is another student of Vedic Astrology like myself.  Vedic Astrology, 
as the name implies, comes down to us from the Vedas and is considered sacred. 
 The study of Jyotish The Science of Light (Vedic Astrology) is a wonderful 
way to become enlightened.  Even in the West, there are  a lot of esoteric 
astrologers who look at the deeper meanings of the astrological symbology 
rather than just using it to predict health, career, romance etc.  
I rather doubt that the Hare Krishnas, as a group, would consider this their 
formal position on the subject, perhaps it was in fact only one individual?  
Anyway, you have a right to your own opinion. I think we're getting a little 
off subject here maybe we can communicate more along these lines in private.

Namaste,
ATNOSPAMSue


-
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 
From: "Your friend at:" 
Subject: Re: Kundalini Krucified

To whom it may concern, 

	I would just like to mention that St. Catherine of Sienna often
referred to God as the Godhead. 

Sincerely, 

Christopher



**********************
"The person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady
               in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
                        Bhagavad gita as it is 2.15
-
**********************

On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, davelong wrote:

> [An astounding medeival view of one saint's death by decapitation. Saint
> Catherine of Siena was married to Jesus. He gave her a ring which only
> she
> could see, but not if ever her mind strayed from her Spouse.]

> I cannot say more. I remained on the ground, envying him. Do not wonder,
> then, that I urge nothing more upon you than that you be nourished in
> the
> blood and the fire that come from the side of the Son of God. Delay no
> longer, my dearest children, for the blood is flowing and will give you
> life. My sweet Jesus; Jesus, my love."
> 
> --Saint Catherine of Siena, [A.D. 1347-1380] -by Igino Giordani
> 
> 
-


Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Re: The Unimportance of Kundalini

Peter Norton wrote:

> The argument reminds me of the old battle
> against the Gnostics such as Valentinus by Bishop
> Irenaeus in the 2nd century C.E.  Gnostics were a group
> of people claiming extraordinary inner experiences and
> disparaging the 'ordinary' Christians, even Bishops,
> who hadn't gone through the transformation, and didn't
> have the 'inner eye of knowledge', and so 'didnt know
> what they were talking about'.
>
> This sort of conflict has always been around. And it will no
> doubt become more pronounced as the New Age and the New Physics
> and the New Neurology and the Archaic Revival etc etc gather
> momentum.  So Kundalinists should think deeply about
> arguments such as davelong's, and try to understand the
> resentment that their experience can generate from the
> point of view of those who feel 'left out'.
> All the best wishes of 'love and light' are not going
> to stave off this conflict.  The perennial subject of science
> fiction is manifesting before our very eyes: that of a new
> species of being growing out of the old, and the problem of
> their coexisting without the old destroying the new from
> misunderstanding and resentment.

Hello, Peter.

You present an interesting hypothesis, but I would suggest another
way of looking at this "New Species," which can plentifully be
found in the pews of the Churches, Synagogues, and Mosques. They
are being persecuted by the derision, hatred and jealousy of
those who hold the reins of Cultural Power in this world: the
neo-moralists. They are the ones waging war against the New Species,
trying to enforce their valuelessness and way of life, um, death,
upon the masses. They are the entertainment industry, the mainline
"news" mouthpieces of the fashionable fad causes, the university
Marxist professors of the Soft Sciences, (where sociology and
psychology today are no more advanced than mere alchemy was to
today's chemistry) and other groups of educators, politicians,
artists and writers and musicians.

And it isn't just in this country anymore. The Europeans in history
went through the world, plundering its resources. The new wave of
colonialists from the Hollywood glitterati, the neo-moral
colonialists, are busy destroying traditional cultures throughout
the world, and the devastation is worldwide.

In a time when religion becomes mocked, and notions such as morality
and guilt are considered passe in the pop culture, what role should
Kundalini energy play in turning around the cultural destruction?
When TIME declares that God is dead, does an enlightened being
step forward to correct the error?

##> ** The Unimportance of Kundalini **
> 
> Agreed, Kundalini as such is unimportant.  It is not
> an end in itself.  It is something that has to be gone
> through, just like adolescence, on the way to spiritual
> maturity.

That's right. The path is not the goal, but the path does
have a goal.

##> When you contemplate the people, you realize that
##> most of humanity will have no use for any discussions
##> on such an esoteric topic as kundalini.

> True of religion in general. True of any specialty.

But religion has a most important role. Religion is nothing
more that the institutionalization of divine wisdom, imparted
by God to men and women who were close to Him. Religion is
so important that the lowest level of hell is reserved for
those who thwart it, the people's only way to salvation.
Look at something so basic as the 10 Commandments, which
most of us were taught. They can be distilled into this
statement: "Don't be cruel to oneself. Don't be cruel to
others. Don't be cruel to God. In other words: Be kind."
Now, if you teach this wisdom to the people, it brings
about a much better result than were you to start teaching
them how to see God. And besides, the 10 Commandments are
going to be a requisite, anyway, to the vision of God in the
6th chakra.
-
Just look at our current materialist pop culture, which says
you are nothing if you are not successful, not wealthy, not
young, not strong, not fashionable, not healthy, and not
without all the 'right' proportions. What should Kundalini
say to this cultural plight of wrong values? You are
nothing if your Kundalini isn't activated? If you haven't
been to the xth chakra? Rather, Kundalini should advance and
champion the traditional religious values in society.

##> Even for those who find themselves in the throes of
##> an active kundalini, I wonder about the direction
##> and efficacy such discussions should take. I mean, what
##> does one talk about? Should focus be given to the
##> strange and wonderful experiences? Why should they be
##> aired at all, since they are only traps along the way?

> except that since it is so unknown in this culture, it is
> easy to feel like you're all alone and going crazy.  Many,
> many people have been institutionalized unnecessarily.
> Isnt this reason enough to talk about it?

Ah, I can see a new 'minority group' in the wings, complete
with its own prescribed protections: the kundalini-impaired!
But seriously, one should change gears, and take a detached
view here: As a believer in reincarnation, I see this question
more broadly. If I had to undergo, say, alcoholism, in order
to get beyond it, would God have placed me in a hashish
culture? No, just as one who needs to go beyond hashish is
not born into an alcohol culture. For sure, one should not
condone the institutionalization of people because of
Kundalini, but I firmly believe that teachers always come
with the activation, should it be in God's will for that
soul to advance. Another question you might ask is if more
HARM would come from the dissemination of Kundalini than
in any rescue of the institutionalized. I would hazard a
guess that the institutions would become fuller of valid
patients.

##> One who wishes to make progress on the path soon
##> discovers the nature of the attacks, the suggestions,
##> the fears, the confusions, and the pitances. Kundalini
##> is first and foremost a BATTLEFIELD for the soul, and
##> the warfare can be great. In fact, kundalini mirrors
##> the general spiritual battlefield going on everywhere,
##> a battle for human hearts and souls. A human soul lost
##> to the devil becomes his loot, his booty. Demons have a
##> supreme hatred of the human soul, since it was created

> demons, battlefields, warfare ... sigh, the old Western
> archetypes are so tempting.  Believe in them and they
> manifest, no doubt about it.  They are there.  But they
> are yet another illusion, just like all the flashing lights
> of Kundalini.  If you see a demon, catch it as fast as you
> can and give it a big wet sloppy kiss right on the lips!
> That is the only way to make them go away, it seems.
> Read about St Anthony in the desert of Egypt.

The Lord's Prayer is most effective in scaring away demons.
Illusions? Perhaps in the sense that through the grace of
God, they can buzz around one's soul like bees, but can
never sting, unless one pays attention to them. When Sri
Krishna destroyed demons, He conferred liberation to them
by His killing them. God can no wrong or evil. It is a
kindness to destroy demons. However, I would not look at
history, even recent history, even in this very century,
and view the millions upon untold millions who were
murdered by governments, that demons have no powers.

##> Show me a person who goes to Mass on Sundays, or to
##> the Mosque on Fridays, or to the Synagogue on Saturdays,
##> who lives a decent, kind life, who does the will of God,
##> and who never heard of the word 'kundalini', and I will
##> show you one of 4 billion people who are storing up the
##> one thing needed in life: grace, which will lead to an
##> eternity of bliss.

> This is an interesting point.  It raises all the issues
> of faith vs works, and 'the letter killeth but the spirit
> gives life', and the phenomenon of people who can recite
> the Bible backwards and forwards but have no Love, nor knowledge.
> 
> The eternity of bliss is merely a hypothesis.  The saints I have
> read tell me that you must find it Here, to find it There.  If
> we putter around in church and in Scripture once a week for an
> hour or so, never once allowing enough time for the Holy Spirit
> to manifest, an eternity of bliss would be a most incredible result.
> 
> It also begs the question, HOW does one DO the Will of God?
> How, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit?  How can we know
> the Will of God without the Holy Spirit?  It seems to ignore
> the possibility that Kundalini could be another word for Holy
> Spirit. Is this all that controversial?
>
> As Carl Jung said, "Religion is a defense against the
> religious experience."  The whole structure of everyday
> churchgoing is designed, it seems, to cater to those fearful
> of any real experience beyond the 'normal' and 'safe'.
> Though someone has to do all the potlucks and bake sales,
> I suppose.
-
All good questions, Peter. For most people, just hearing
Scriptures once a week, and even participating in the
occassional bake sale might just BE all that God requires of
them. Others raise families, and teach them traditional values,
and provide a religious education. What a boon to be born
into such a family! Even just giving birth brings with it
immense rewards in the Afterlife, considering all the pain
a mother goes through. Add to that the immense glory from
having raised a family, and imparting traditional, religious
values, and you have grace upon grace. To downcast such a
"humdrum non-kundalini" or "non-Holy-Spirit" lives is to
set one apart as elitest. And, yes, I would agree that the
Holy Spirit is Kundalini at the 5th chakra.

The good feeling of grace one feels while walking out of
Church in no way makes it less important to the soul, just
because it isn't yet a whirlwind of ecstasy.

Regards,