kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 194 

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Kundalini Crucified

** Hussein al Halladj (D.309 H-922 C.E.) **

At the festival on the slope of Mount Arfat he said, "O thou
signpost for the dull witted!" And when he saw all the people
praying, he climbed a hill and watched them, and as they were all
coming back he struck himself and cried out, "Thou exalted Lord,
I know thou art pure, and I say thou art pure of all the praise of
the praisers and all the worship of the worshippers and all the
thoughts of the thinkers. My God! Thou knowest that I cannot
fulfill the obligation of praise. Praise thou thyself in my stead,
that is the true praise."

He was asked whether a contemplative has time left over for
himself. "No," he said, "Time expresses the state of one who
needs time for enlightenment; but whoever cannot be content
with his state is a knower. That is, one must be able to say,
in the words of Mohammed, 'I have times with God when no angel,
no cherub even, can grasp me.'"

He was asked, "What is the way to God?" He answered, "Pull
back both your feet, and you will be with him - one foot from
out of this life, the other foot from out of the other life."
-
Likewise he said, "Knowing means seeing things, but also being
submerged, like all things, in the Absolute."

He said, "When the servant has arrived at the rung of knowledge,
God sends him an inspiration, his joy becomes dull, and nothing
is to his taste any longer, except the enjoyment of God."

Moreover he said, "The gaze of the seers, the knowledge of the
knowers, the light of those who know in the spirit, and the
way of those who make swift progress, and the eternity of
Before and the eternity of After and all that lies between are
temporality." And how do we know this? Hussein answers, "Whoever
has a heart, let him throw away his eye, then he will see."

Likewise, "Whosoever seeks God sits in the shadow of his
penitence, but whomsoever God seeks sits in the shadow of his
innocence."

Likewise, "Whosoever seeks God runs ahead of his revelations,
but whomsoever God seeks has revelations that overtake his
running."

Likewise, "Hours of divine enlightenment are shells that lie in
the seas of our hearts; the morning of resurrection casts them
up on shore, and they spring open."

He said, "I am the one I love, and the one I love is I; we are
two souls fused in one body. When you see me, you see him. When
you see him, you see us."
-
Now when people began to be astonished at him, liars without
judgment revealed themselves, and also many adherents.
Wonderful things were seen of him. Some whetted their tongues to
calumny and brought his sayings to the caliph. The Imams of
Baghdad also voted to condemn him to death, because he had said,
"I am God!" They demanded that he should say, "He is God!" He
replied, "Yes, everything is he! You say that he is submerged
[in the beings], but Hussein is submerged; the ocean does not
become submerged, nor does it annihilate."
-
On the way to his execution he danced, flinging his hands about
like a high-spirited stallion, though laden with sixteen chains.
They said, "What sort of going is this?" He answered, "Am I not
going to my place of sacrifice?" Thereupon he uttered a loud cry
and sang these verses:

Never would I wish my friend to be accused of cruelty.
He handed me what he drinks himself, as a host to a guest.
But as the cups went round he called for the block and the sword.
So it fares with him who drinks wine with the dragon in the heat of
summer.

========================

From: Ekstatische Konfessionen [Ecstatic Confessions], 

Subject: Kundalini (Vietnamese way) 8 

Kundalini bypass all the six chakra in a vision of the red line with six red 
balls this is only the first step.

Tip: Doing samaddhi on the chakra of your throat: you will not hungry and 
thirsty.
Process:
With your subject, attain the Third Degree of Meditation. Change the subject 
to a standing ellipse and rise the red line to the fifth (5) ball and keep it 
there.
Right away, you can feel a sweet taste flow from this chakra to your whole 
body. Mixing with this sweet taste and the spiritual happiness: you do not 
need to eat nor to drink as long as you keep this vision. (our record is 40 
days without a single meal and water).

Tip: Doing samaddhi on the three chakra Ajna, Anahata and Muladara: You will 
know if your audience can understand what you are telling or not.

First located your three chakra: Ajna (located at 1/3 from your eyebrows in 
the central line of your forehead), Anahata (located in the acupuncture point 
Yutang (Vietnamese: Ngo.c Duong), Muladara (located at the Solar Plexus).

Practice: when your listen to your friend you will know if S/He is telling a 
lie or a true:
A lie: You can feel a light pressure at the left or the right side of your 
Muladara.
A true: This pressure is right on your Muladara.
With an unknown subject (or in a not-sure story): the pressure swings from the 
both side.

With an understanding audience: you can feel the pressure right on your 
Anahata chakra.
With a misunderstanding audience: You can feel the pressure move:
1. To the left side: Your audience are out of patient and do not want to know 
anymore.
2. To the right side: Your audience are attentive but do not know what you are 
telling about.

In a group of audience you will know exactly on a single person (one by one): 
If S/He can understand or not at what you are telling with your Ajna chakra.
 
Process:
At the break time, open your Ajna chakra (the red line stop at the sixth 
ball). When your Ajna chakra is open you can see in your vision a screen (like 
a TV screen). With this screen, you can scan your audience to "see" which one 
is misunderstanding.

And that all what I know 
OOPS: I forget something: Those experiences are for a grateful son. If you are 
not a grateful son do not try to "open or play with Kundalini" at home, you 
will be rejected by a big and powerful flashing light and that make you scare 
to death. This is the only one password.
-
So, before trying anything, be a grateful son. You are warning for that!
   ^    ^
( 0 Y 0 )
     ||         Nguyen Phuoc
  \,,,,,/
All your questions are always welcome :-) :-) :-)



-
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: leaving the list,   don't go...Dan

Dan,
I think that we would loose a great deal if you let the list, so as a fellow
list members, who enjoys having your insights and perscpectives, I hope you
will change your mind and stay.  You have had some very interesting things to
share and say about kundalini.  Even though I am very busy with school and do
not have a great deal of time to post, I try to keep up and do like hearing
from you.  It is up to you, but I hope you stay.  Don't go, but if you feel
you must, I will miss you and understand.
Sending light and love,
Lori



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Rondi McBoyer 
Subject: Thankyou!

Hi Mary!
I made it back reasonably safely, although lighter in pocket to the
list. although I have been lurking for a week or so, I wanted to say
thank you for forwarding my message for me ref: the map.  I'm almost
afraid to write that, it always causes me problems.  How is it coming
along? If you need any of the places we had collected to date, I still
have them saved on disk.
I notice you are still looking for books to read, if you are looking for
something realted, but not really to this thing we seem to be
experiencing, shave you ever tried Stephen King?  Mush of his later work
has to do with  spirits and different realities,and a strong correlation
can be made to our list subject.  Right now I am re-reading Insomnia,
but you might also try the Dark Tower series.
Thanks again, I hope you are well and Light, Rondi



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Rondi McBoyer 
Subject: WHY??

Dear davelong,
I have been reading your diatribes and lectures for many weeks without
saying anything, but now I really must ask you... WHY? what is it that
makes you continue to post to a group of people who obviously are not
interested in your point of view?   I wait for your answer, Rondi


-
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Chuck Tedesco 
Subject: Re: WHY??

Rondi,
Would you be a better person for having received a reply to the 
question: "Hitler, why'd you slaughter so many people?"  All you can do 
sometimes with ignorant people is to send a little white light their 
way and then ignore them.  Why put any energy on the reply of someone 
who has already proven their level of wisdom in this way?
-- 
 Chuck Tedesco      Smoking Release Associates  HTTP://WWW.SRA1.COM
 Smoking Cessation Coach   Service via phone/e-mail/products shipped
 For free "Stress Management Tips for Smokers" send blank e-mail to:
 TIPSATNOSPAMSRA1.COM    Unique, proven programs for individuals and groups.



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Kundalini & Kabalah Experiment

Hi everybody:

It struck me that there might be a few people out there like me with
more curosity than common sense. I've been thinking about the
differences between Kundalini and Kabalah meditation techniques.

for example in Kundalini one starts work on the base of the spine and
moves up towards the Crown. With Kabalah it is the opposite way round,
you start with the Crown and bring the energies down through the centers
until one gets to the lowest. 

The other difference is that Kundalini energy makes it's effect felt
within the body as energy movement that is felt with ones body sense,
one way or another. The Kabalah has a different outlet as it tends to be
known as dreams that start when you bring the energy down to the weakest
of the Sephiroth in your sphere. Working on the resulting dreams seems
to feed or strenghten that centre and when the dreams stop you go back
up to the Crown and bring down a fresh load of energy. One does this
until you reach the lowest centre called Malkuth.

Now what is interesting is that as a general rule, (there are no hard
and fast ones,) the Kabalah meditations do not produce the same physical
pain that K does although one certainly gets the head & other pains when
the energy is more than one expected. 

Could it be that our "soul" is layered? If one starts with K meditations
until the energy begins to flow up the spine and then switche to the
Crown meditations and try to work ones way down through the Sephiroth I
half suspect that each different working may balance the other.

To be practical about this, if one is in the grip of K then by
concentrating on Kabalah meditations the Crown energy may cool the fire
and allow a more complete and balanced development. 

If anyone has already tried this, or something like it I'd love to hear
about the results. I only realised this possibility this afternoon, but
then you would have to have more curosity than common sense to try this
out, wouldn't you?

Good luck.

Christopher Williams  



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: Good book.

  This weekend I read a really good book called "Bringers of the Dawn:
Teachings from the Pleiadians" channelled by Barbara Marciniak.
  I found it in a new age used bookstore, It grabbed me by the antennae, and
I could not put it down, except a few times when some big integrations
happened, and I had to stop and shut down my logical conscousness for a few
moments.
  It makes a few mentions of K. as a matter of course, mostly it is about
the Ascention, and in particular, why so many of us are experiencing
dimension flipping, and the prescence of so many different beings inside of us.
  The book is channelled in such a way to guide you into understanding. It
was published in 1992, so I found it helpful in putting many of my past
experiences into clearer perspective, as well as shedding some light on what
we can expect to be happening next, and to cope with the experiences.
  We are evolving. Many of us on this list are starbeings, of the family of
light who have incarnated here and now specifically for the purpose of
remembering who we are, and guiding the evolution of humans into creating a
new reality. The work of the millennia. The spirals of light, mentioned in
the channelled readings by Chandara in connection with the stargate's
opening, and the Photon belt, are new DNA for our energy bodies to convert
to mass in our physical bodies, and then back again with all the rest, when
we have evolved into lightbodies. All this information incoming, which
sometimes feels like energy, sometimes like a sudden ringing or buzzing in
the ears (I call it fax mode) is information incoming, is coming from our K.
opening, but that is to facilitate the activation of old and new DNA, and
the 90% of our unconscous that we supposedly do not use, and the information
incoming from Alien/Angel sources. 
And from new awareness of our multidimensional selves.
  Much of the information won't make sense until we evolve enough to process
it, much like a zen koan doesn't make any sense until you've been there.
Best thing to do, submit to the process, soak up as much light as you can,
and focus on the fact that your beliefs and desires shape your world, often
in a very limiting fashion. Light is information. Emotion is power. You can
follow the paths of emotion into past lives or other dimensions of being.
Allow yourself to be confused without being frightened. Trust in the light,
to guide you gracefully to that moment of gestalt, when your mind makes an
evolutionary leap, and things make sense again. 
  The confusion is the very neccesary destruction of old ideas and
limitations, to prepare for new insight. Feel your way through it, the
logical mind is only a hindrance here. That is why it is often deliberately
placed into confusion, to get it tied up and out of the way. That's what a
Koan does. Tie up your logical mind in a knot, so you can hear the whispered
voices of your DNA, the planet, Angels, your other selves.
  So, there's a book review to start discussion: Anybody?
                Blessings, Angelique.



Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 
From: "Michael J. Davis" 
Subject: Re: WHY??

At 06:41 PM 10/14/96 -0400, Rondi McBoyer wrote:
>Dear davelong,
>I have been reading your diatribes and lectures for many weeks without
>saying anything, but now I really must ask you... WHY? what is it that
>makes you continue to post to a group of people who obviously are not
>interested in your point of view?   I wait for your answer, Rondi
>
->
>
Rondi:

While on one level, I can assume that you didn't intend to, please do not
put yourself in a position to judge for all members of the list what
messages we do and do not want to read.

While I do not agree with alot of what is said on this list, each post is a
learning opportunity for those reading the messages that approach it in the
proper manner. A wee bit of electronic data can only be as offensive as you
allow it to be. Many times, messages such as this allow you to have insight
into a person's mind and motives. Learning to understand (not agree) and how
to dela with them is a part of life.

Michael
***************************
Michael J. Davis
Independent Network Consultant
mjdavisATNOSPAMcompassnet.com
-
"May Burger King AND your girlfriend refuse to do it your way!"
	- Johnny Carson as the Amazing Karmac
 



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: The Unimportance of Kundalini
-
I was surprised to see no explicit replies to this
essay of davelong's.
I thought there were some good points made. 
So forgive me for the compulsion to add my $0.02.

The argument reminds me of the old battle
against the Gnostics such as Valentinus by Bishop 
Irenaeus in the 2nd century C.E.  Gnostics were a group
of people claiming extraordinary inner experiences and
disparaging the 'ordinary' Christians, even Bishops,
who hadn't gone through the transformation, and didn't
have the 'inner eye of knowledge', and so 'didnt know
what they were talking about'.  

As Meister Eckhart says (in another context): 
'They pray to they know not what.'

This sort of conflict has always been around. And it will no
doubt become more pronounced as the New Age and the New Physics
and the New Neurology and the Archaic Revival etc etc gather
momentum.  So Kundalinists should think deeply about 
arguments such as davelong's, and try to understand the 
resentment that their experience can generate from the 
point of view of those who feel 'left out'.  
All the best wishes of 'love and light' are not going 
to stave off this conflict.  The perennial subject of science
fiction is manifesting before our very eyes: that of a new 
species of being growing out of the old, and the problem of 
their coexisting without the old destroying the new from 
misunderstanding and resentment.

davelong wrote:
> 
> ** The Unimportance of Kundalini **

Agreed, Kundalini as such is unimportant.  It is not
an end in itself.  It is something that has to be gone
through, just like adolescence, on the way to spiritual
maturity.
-
> When you contemplate the people, you realize that
> most of humanity will have no use for any discussions
> on such an esoteric topic as kundalini. 

True of religion in general. True of any specialty.

> Even for those who find themselves in the throes of
> an active kundalini, I wonder about the direction
> and efficacy such discussions should take. I mean, what
> does one talk about? Should focus be given to the
> strange and wonderful experiences? Why should they be
> aired at all, since they are only traps along the way?

except that since it is so unknown in this culture, it is
easy to feel like you're all alone and going crazy.  Many,
many people have been institutionalized unnecessarily.
Isnt this reason enough to talk about it?

> Would it constitute an encouragement to dally in such
> traps to even discuss them? Pitfalls are to be avoided,
> not dallied in. And there are pitfalls all over. That's
> the nature of the path. If it were so easy, heaven
> would be full of angels, and the earth would be devoid
> of life.
> 
> Pitfalls say: "Look here. This is most interesting!
> This is great! Dally here for a while; rest a bit
> and go no further. Isn't this most amazing? Look
> what you can do!" So you receive a pitance of a power,
> on the way to receiving the Power of God, and you stop
> in your tracks, to relish in the little power. But

This is quite true.  Power is the ultimate temptation.
The power of finding parking spaces etc.  It can lead to
spiritual inflation.  The stories of Jesus in the desert, or
Buddha under the tree are most instructive.

Zen masters hammer inflated neophytes on this point:
"You want Miraculous power? Chop wood, carry water!
Just let things be themselves!  Isnt that miraculous enough!?
Who cares about parking spaces?"

"The world is its own magic." -Shunryu Suzuki Roshi

Though, parking spaces are nice once in a while.

> that's the way it's built. If you choose to be
> interested in the little power, of course you miss out
> on the Big Power, since you are not ready for it. God
> would never give one the power to, say, bring down
> airliners, if they couldn't also love even greater.
> The path is one of coming closer to God, who is All-
> Powerful and All-Loving.

True, Love is the Ultimate Power, the only power worth
seeking.

> 
> Now, what is the nature of the devil and demons in
> kundalini? I have heard people say that drugs should
> not be indulged in, since demons love to inhabit the
> bodies of those who are drugged. They say that demons
> sit high atop the buildings of Haight Street, and wait
> to swoop down on those they see 'high' walking by, to
> inhabit their bodies. While this may be true, that in
> itself is not any reason to be against drugs, since
> demons also seek out those with an active kundalini.
> They are the primary agents in conducting people into
> the many pitfalls along the path. They do so because
> of their jealousy of humans who are getting close to
> God.
> 
> One who wishes to make progress on the path soon
> discovers the nature of the attacks, the suggestions,
> the fears, the confusions, and the pitances. Kundalini
> is first and foremost a BATTLEFIELD for the soul, and
> the warfare can be great. In fact, kundalini mirrors
> the general spiritual battlefield going on everywhere,
> a battle for human hearts and souls. A human soul lost
> to the devil becomes his loot, his booty. Demons have a
> supreme hatred of the human soul, since it was created

demons, battlefields, warfare ... sigh, the old Western 
archetypes are so tempting.  Believe in them and they 
manifest, no doubt about it.  They are there.  But they
are yet another illusion, just like all the flashing lights
of Kundalini.  If you see a demon, catch it as fast as you
can and give it a big wet sloppy kiss right on the lips!
That is the only way to make them go away, it seems.
Read about St Anthony in the desert of Egypt.

> to be close to God, and human souls in heaven far
> surpass even angels in their bliss. A soul lost to
> the devil becomes a loss for God.
> 
> Show me a person who goes to Mass on Sundays, or to
> the Mosque on Fridays, or to the Synagogue on Saturdays,
> who lives a decent, kind life, who does the will of God,
> and who never heard of the word 'kundalini', and I will
> show you one of 4 billion people who are storing up the
> one thing needed in life: grace, which will lead to an
> eternity of bliss.

This is an interesting point.  It raises all the issues
of faith vs works, and 'the letter killeth but the spirit
gives life', and the phenomenon of people who can recite
the Bible backwards and forwards but have no Love, nor knowledge.

The eternity of bliss is merely a hypothesis.  The saints I have
read tell me that you must find it Here, to find it There.  If
we putter around in church and in Scripture once a week for an 
hour or so, never once allowing enough time for the Holy Spirit 
to manifest, an eternity of bliss would be a most incredible result.

It also begs the question, HOW does one DO the Will of God?
How, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit?  How can we know
the Will of God without the Holy Spirit?  It seems to ignore 
the possibility that Kundalini could be another word for Holy
Spirit. Is this all that controversial?  
-
As Carl Jung said, "Religion is a defense against the
religious experience."  The whole structure of everyday 
churchgoing is designed, it seems, to cater to those fearful
of any real experience beyond the 'normal' and 'safe'.  
Though someone has to do all the potlucks and bake sales, 
I suppose.

> For those too self-absorbed, Sri Krishna went on to say:
> "No one who seeks Me ever comes to an evil end."
-
sorry for all this ranting ...

time to 'melt away and repent in dust and ashes' for having 
spoken of that beyond my knowledge ...

sigh

"I cannot go on, all that I have written seems to me like
so much straw compared to what I have seen." 
-Saint Thomas Aquinas

love and light, I suppose ...



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Kundalini & Kabalah Experiment

Christopher Williams wrote:
> 
> for example in Kundalini one starts work on the base of the spine and
> moves up towards the Crown. With Kabalah it is the opposite way round,
> you start with the Crown and bring the energies down through the centers
> until one gets to the lowest.

here's something slightly relevant from Gloria Joy Greco's website:
http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress/Kundalini.html

"The kundalini energies inside and the cosmic light stream from God as
the Holy Spirit are meant to meet in the Heart Center so that God can
bring his light and
power into the world of matter to transform his creation. 

Kundalini rises spontaneously while the Holy Spirit drops down through
the top of the head. When the Christ frequency unites with the kundalini
life-force the heart
center is totally illuminated which draws the frequency of the Kundalini
up and out through the top of the head at the crown chakra. This drastic
increase in vibration
balances and synchronizes all seven centers until a point of perfect
balance is achieved. This is a major achievement on the road to
enlightenment. 

I have read many things about Kundalini and there is very little
information available talking about the Holy Spirit and kundalini force
as being two distinct and
separate forces. One comes from within the body and the other drops down
as cosmic energy directly from the cosmic stream of divine will."
-
cheers



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Follow up & question about death

Yes, Holly. 
I noticed when my mom died altough I wasnt there, I talked to the nurse
at the home where she was and also my daughter who was there and they
said that she had exteremely loud breathing for about a day before she
died even though she was in a coma.  The nurse said they many old people
do this kind of breathing before they die and i thought of the life
force also. Royale