kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 139 

Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: A request

Dear Holly,

although I can not offer any advice, I would like you to know that my heart goes 
out to you, your mom and your grandmother. I just happened to stumble onto your 
letter while looking for my mail....the Kundalini message-board is my husband's
way of making that a little difficult from time to time.Reading your letter, I 
could not help thinking that I am a lot like your mom concerning religion and 
spirituality...
Speaking for myself, I would not be offended if my relatives tried to prepare my 
soul for death; whether I believed in such a thing or not. It is an expression 
of love and caring to offer any rite of passage. It could also help your mom to 
know that your family can be more at peace with themselves by having played a 
part in her passing.

Wishing love and peace to all of you
Manu         
       



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Transformation

Dan,

In a message dated 96-09-09 15:39:21 EDT, you write:

>hehe... actually perhaps i'm too rational about this. but i dont really
>understand. i'm confused. you see, i've found the mass of stuff from outside
>myself now, and i dont understand it. should i just get rid of it? i cant
>figure this out. its like a maze when inside, which seems to suggest its
>leading me someplace, but outside, its not going anywhere, just a small
>ball, so throw it away? or put a path of white light through it from
>outside? i dont really know. maybe it is that easy, but my rational mind
>asks again, whats the point then.

This looks positive to me - you've made it from inside the maze to the
outside (it has already "led" you somewhere - through it!).  Let it move
through....Embrace, enfold, love from the perspective of the totality of you,
and in that energy, it will dissipate.  If you check in daily, I'll bet
you'll see it as smaller & farther away until you can't find it anymore -
that's when its been transformed.  Notice:  there has been no fighting with
it, no trying to "get rid" of it, only love; and in the love, you have set
the confusion free.

I sense the ears burning, blocked, etc. has a lot to do with accepting love.
 Parts of you have not had very good experiences with "love" relationships,
and so they are afraid to get hurt again.  You want it very badly, but it's
almost as if the risk is too great - you'd rather suffer than risk it again.

Have you ever done any inner voice/child work?  There are parts of you who
really need the comfort, security, stability, and love that you as an adult
with more wisdom can now provide.  I had an issue having to do with "logic"
last night.  I'm working on changing a particular belief about myself, and my
logical part thought that I was going to throw it out with the bathwater!
 (results:  lethargy, depression, headache)  So, as I went to sleep, I
cuddled a teddy bear (with the intent that it represented my logical parts
who were frightened of being gotten rid of), and I just held an inner
conversation.  I explained to the "teddy bear" that I did not want to get rid
of it, just transform some old, outdated beliefs that it had.  I told it that
I NEED my logical mind, just as much as my creative mind, that they have
worked together very well.  After explaining this, then I just held the teddy
bear to give my logic parts some support and safety, and comfort.  Now I feel
free to continue to work on changing that belief I started the whole mess
with!

You don't necessarily have to hold a teddy bear (dolls, etc. work for people,
just depends on personal preference); you don't really have to hold anything.
 You can see yourself in your mind's eye holding a child part of yourself on
your lap, etc.  The key is to evoke a feeling of love, comfort, security, &
support to whoever is feeling the fear, and let them express themselves to
you - they don't want to be ignored, they're pretty darned frightened, and
they want help.

I hope that helps you, Dan.  Good luck and good works!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs,  ;)Barb}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: ADMIN:  End to Spam


Dear List Members,

The list has been changed to help up fight against spam messages like the
recent "Vitamins below retail" posts. 

Hope everyone had a good weekend.
-
Richard
--
There are never enough, "I love you's".
Lenny Bruce



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Pessimism, no hope, perhaps dying

At 02:02 AM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dan,
>Is there some specific reason that you believe your time is here? Are you
>dealing with an illness that I missed? I've been in and out of the list for a
>while, sorry if I am behind here.

it was just something that came to me. and a long time feeling that this
body was wearing out. a few nights ago, my inner voice said "its your time",
meaning my time.

I've never had a premonition like that before, and after predicting the
deaths of 12 people close to one (and one recent which I have yet to see if
it comes true), this feeling is completely different.

I'm still not sure. Karol (and other posts on here recently) have gudided me
(although not knowingly) into realizing that this may actually be "Death of
the Ego"

I juect never thought it would feel the same way. I think even you posted
something like this recently. It's hard to tell when you're the person who's
going through it. 

>Anyway, if you are preparing to make a transition, all the more reason to
>raise your frequency to the highest state that is possible. This is such an
>important time of the
>life cycle. We shouldn't lose a second of it . God Bless . Gloria

my vibration is skyrocketing lately. and lots of energy, which I mentioned.
someone else was kind enough to send me email about this "Ego Death" as
well, which related to all the receiving of energy. She suggested that my
vision of stopping in the middle of the maze, not being able to go forward
is a brick wall thrown up by my ego to prevent me going further.

It all seems to work i think. i still dont know for sure, and i still feel,
because of certain circumstances, which do have an alternate, its just that
that alternate must come before the end of the month. it's a long story. sigh.

oh, and by the way, not to be harsh or anything, but I am an atheist you know.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Transformation

At 07:53 AM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dan,
>
>This looks positive to me - you've made it from inside the maze to the
>outside (it has already "led" you somewhere - through it!).  Let it move
>through....Embrace, enfold, love from the perspective of the totality of you,
>and in that energy, it will dissipate.  If you check in daily, I'll bet
>you'll see it as smaller & farther away until you can't find it anymore -
>that's when its been transformed.  Notice:  there has been no fighting with
>it, no trying to "get rid" of it, only love; and in the love, you have set
>the confusion free.
-
actually i had another more recent thought about this. i had a recent
thought i posted in another message. something along the lines of losing
myself in my self, and a voice within me said "yes! yes!", whatever that was
supposed to mean. and then it seemed the "maze" was my self, it was what I
was lost in.

of course none of this makes any sense to me. :)

>I sense the ears burning, blocked, etc. has a lot to do with accepting love.
> Parts of you have not had very good experiences with "love" relationships,
>and so they are afraid to get hurt again.  You want it very badly, but it's
>almost as if the risk is too great - you'd rather suffer than risk it again.

I wish it were that easy. and its true i want, actually NEED, it very badly.
but there is no one in my life. and thats one thing that may result in my
situation not being fixed by the end of the month. Yes, having that person
could make the difference, and that's pretty scary.

>Have you ever done any inner voice/child work?  There are parts of you who
>really need the comfort, security, stability, and love that you as an adult
>with more wisdom can now provide.

inner child? dont have one. long story. but inner voice, thats more a
subconcious thing that happens on its own than anything i do.

>So, as I went to sleep, I
>cuddled a teddy bear (with the intent that it represented my logical parts
>who were frightened of being gotten rid of), and I just held an inner
>conversation.
-
it's funny you should mention this. i did this with a stuffed bunny last
night, for no reason known to me conciously. i cuddled it, etc, gave it lots
of affection, I have no idea why, or what it represented. i did get some
comfort out of it though. I wonder what freud would say about this? :)

>I hope that helps you, Dan.  Good luck and good works!

yeah, i really hope this works out. oh well. back to the grindstone for now.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: "D. M. England" 
Subject: The 11 bodies

Mac,

It is a Yoga concept.  It might also be from other spiritual 
traditions.

1.  The soul body - our essence, inner voice.  The soul must be fed sometimes
    in the face of overwhelming logic to the contrary.  I am reading the book
    SoulMates by Thomas Moore.  He talks about the need of soul for close
    personal contact and shared experience.  One has choices.   They are
    forming close personal contacts such as friendships, love interests, and
    /or close personal ties.  Another choice is not to form any of these. 
    Instead constantly having people go in and out of your life.  The idea is
-    that the soul doesn't care if the emotion is from pain or joy.  It just
    needs the emotion to feed itself.

2.  The Negative mind - helps us avoid mistakes and calculate risks.  sometimes
    people give there power away in order to connect with others or make peace.

3. The Positive Mind - hope, optimism

4.  The Neutral Mind - this is develop through meditation.  Allows us to see
both sides of an issue or problem. Gives insight.
-
5. The Physical Body - If this is mastered the the domain of the true teacher
is reached.

6. The Arcline - Is the beaming power of the mind.  When it is strong you are
intuitive and focused.  When it is weak the you are scattered and
accident-prone.

7. The Magnetic Field - Charisma, healing, uplifting, inspiration.  You will
attract people.
-
8. The Pranic Body - energy, fearlessness, regenerative Powers.  Yoga breathing
attracts Pranic energy.  When strong you can impart energy to those around you.

9. The Subtle Body - Mastery, know the unknown, see the unseen, see that which
is hidden.  If unintegrated insensitivity and  awkwardness results  The subtle
body takes the soul to its destination at the time of death.

10. The Radiant Body  - Nerve strength, royal courage, to stand up and be
counted.  Warrior aspect.     
-
11.  The Eleventh Body - the crystallization of the other ten bodies. To bring
this about one must transcend narrowness.  Walk a path with heart and soul. The
chrysalis of the ten bodies. 

Diane


Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Transformation

Dan,

In a message dated 96-09-10 10:17:24 EDT, you write:

>I wish it were that easy. and its true i want, actually NEED, it very badly.
>but there is no one in my life. and thats one thing that may result in my
>situation not being fixed by the end of the month. Yes, having that person
>could make the difference, and that's pretty scary.
-
This is going to sound very simplistic, my apologies, but (I hate it when
people use "but" with me! (-:) the one who you TRULY need is YOU.  You
attract (or mirror) to yourself on the outside whatever is inside.  I look at
your phrase "there is no one in my life" as a statement about your
availibility to yourself.  I also see that as changing because of your recent
k experiences - you are being forced to look at some things.  Keep up the
*bunny* work - that's you!

When you change the inner, the outer will change as well.  I am living proof.
- It's not just something out of a book to me anymore.  It's personal
experience.

Putting a time limit on when you HAVE to attract someone is going into fear.
 You are SAFE, whether you now know it or not, YOU ARE SAFE.  Relax, love &
support your inner bunny (excuse me, ahem, voices rather), and allow love to
find YOU when you are ready for it (that's advice, not an order!).  And look
how wonderful you are already getting at attracting love - there has been an
outpouring of love from this list, has there not?  A "physical" loving,
supportive relationship cannot be far behind!
-
Lots more Love,  Barb



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 96 
From: tseewATNOSPAMservtech.com
Subject: Re: Pessimism, no hope, perhaps dying 

--- On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:44:49 -0400  Dan Gahlinger  wrote:
>oh, and by the way, not to be harsh or anything, but I am an atheist you know.
>Dan.
>there are always possibilities...

Dan,

Atheist????  If there are "always possibilities" Dan, then please consider for
a moment the possibility that there is a God, a power greater than yourself.
Denial of this fact can only be the result of *ego*.

Websters definition of an atheist...

"an ATHEIST is one who denies the existence of God and rejects all religious
faith and practice"

I *know* in the past you *have* considered the possibility that there is a
higher power.  An atheist doesn't consult with healers and visionaries like
Ted Silverhand, something you have stated publicly before as doing, as this
would be admitting that there are perhaps powers greater than your own.

Consider the possibility that the Universe is putting *extreme* pressure on
you right now to get you to admit what you already know in your heart.
The Universe will force you to believe, or it will kill you.

Dan, this is not a flame, I truly care what happens to you.  You have a
tiger by the tail right now and it's about to turn around and eat you.  You
had the option (and perhaps still do) to slow the rise of the 'k'--this is
very well documented in the literature.

There's an old army saying, "there are no atheists in the foxholes".  Well,
the Universe just dropped a 1000lb bomb on you to get you to admit it to
yourself.

Please take care, Dan.  I wish you the best...  -Tim



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Transformation
-
At 12:55 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dan,
>
>This is going to sound very simplistic, my apologies, but (I hate it when
>people use "but" with me! (-:) the one who you TRULY need is YOU.  You
>attract (or mirror) to yourself on the outside whatever is inside.  I look at
>your phrase "there is no one in my life" as a statement about your
>availibility to yourself.  I also see that as changing because of your recent
>k experiences - you are being forced to look at some things.  Keep up the
>*bunny* work - that's you!

oh i dunno about that. i feel like i've overdosed on myself. too much time
alone I think.  aww, dont pick on the poor sweet cute bunny wabbit!

sometimes i do feel i'd be better off as a stuffed aminal (not a spelling
mistake) though... :)

>When you change the inner, the outer will change as well.  I am living proof.
> It's not just something out of a book to me anymore.  It's personal
>experience.

eeep! I've done that to death... i want the roller coaster to stop for a
minute, otherwise i'm going to loose my lunch...

>Putting a time limit on when you HAVE to attract someone is going into fear.
> You are SAFE, whether you now know it or not, YOU ARE SAFE.  Relax, love &
>support your inner bunny (excuse me, ahem, voices rather), and allow love to
>find YOU when you are ready for it (that's advice, not an order!).  And look
>how wonderful you are already getting at attracting love - there has been an
>outpouring of love from this list, has there not?  A "physical" loving,
>supportive relationship cannot be far behind!

oh its not MY time limit dear, no no. its just a premonition/precognition
from a BUNCH of people. yeah, like thats not pressure... no... :) and it
certainly didnt help my getting this little "its my time" message either. eesh.

as for love, the weird thing is I HAVE been in love, for 9 months now. its
directed at a specfic person, and i've even gotten glimpses of them in my
meditations. except i still dont know who it is. the rule seems to be that
they will find me, which fits nicely with your statement there. 

>Lots more Love,  Barb

who me? i'll muddle through somehow. and in the meantime i'll share and
offer to others here. lest this list turn into my own private support group. :)
Dan.
there are always possibilities...


-
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Pessimism, no hope, perhaps dying 

At 02:22 PM 9/10/96 PDT, you wrote:
>>oh, and by the way, not to be harsh or anything, but I am an atheist you know.
>
>Atheist????  If there are "always possibilities" Dan, then please consider for
>a moment the possibility that there is a God, a power greater than yourself.
>Denial of this fact can only be the result of *ego*.

completely wrong. but thats besides the point. lets not flame. let me put it
this way:

an atheist is a person who KNOWS there is no such thing as "God", however,
we know DAMN well, there are higher POWERS (please note the PLURAL!). yes,
this is my universe.  this is not ego.

It is EGO to try to force your beliefs on others. which I certainly dont do.
-
>Websters definition of an atheist...
>
>"an ATHEIST is one who denies the existence of God and rejects all religious
>faith and practice"

hmmm interesting. i think their definition is MISLEADING. perhaps not
incorrect, but misleading. you got the wrong idea.

>I *know* in the past you *have* considered the possibility that there is a
>higher power.  An atheist doesn't consult with healers and visionaries like
>Ted Silverhand, something you have stated publicly before as doing, as this
>would be admitting that there are perhaps powers greater than your own.

that has nothing to do with "God". believing in the spiritual, healers,
visionaries, the supernatural, and the wonders of the universe, and higher
powers, is all part of my beliefs. as for religious, definitely not, no way,
no how. I dont buy it. sorry.

>Consider the possibility that the Universe is putting *extreme* pressure on
>you right now to get you to admit what you already know in your heart.
>The Universe will force you to believe, or it will kill you.

what, higher powers? sure thing! Heck, my "Mom" is "Fate"! how much more
belief of a higher power can a guy have?

>Dan, this is not a flame, I truly care what happens to you.  You have a
>tiger by the tail right now and it's about to turn around and eat you.  You
>had the option (and perhaps still do) to slow the rise of the 'k'--this is
>very well documented in the literature.
-
tygger wouldn't hurt anybody. (that's a joke). slow rise the 'k'?
hahahahahaha (rofl), sorry, but my k has risen all the way, i'm going
through nightly transformations and integrations, etc. and, there aint no
way in heck i'm gonna slow down. people tell me to ground myself, but i look
at what grounding means (closing the chakras, etc). that would give me an
instant heart-attack (physical). I know, its what my heart and soul tell me.
I'm accelerating, sure i could slow down, but i dont have time.

>There's an old army saying, "there are no atheists in the foxholes".  Well,
>the Universe just dropped a 1000lb bomb on you to get you to admit it to
>yourself.

actually thats wrong too. the saying is "theres no such thing as friendly
fire", grin. who me? well i have no problem with higher powers. i DO have a
problem with the "god complex" as I call it, and I have a problem with the
heaven/utopia complex as well. but i'm a scientific kinda guy.

how does spiritual and such fit in, and how do i believe in it, if god is
nonexistant? i dont NEED a god. i have NO use for such a figure. i do not
NEED that faith or hope. at times i see it as almost a crutch, like alcohol
(sorry, not a flame). but to me, i've had "the council" (not my guides)
around my whole life, theres my spiritual mother "fate", and the rest of the
council. and i've found my guides a year ago almost. so is there a conflict
here? i dont think so.
the universe was not created by ONE being, it was created by a few. my
universe was created by 5 or 6, actually. and i only know one of them, mom. :)

these are my beliefs, and i do not force them down peoples throats, for that
would truly be ego. no, i will not "pick on" someone who believes in god, or
one who thinks it is necessary or required, and i will not think less of
them or find fault, or think it is incorrect or bad. that is their beliefs,
and their right. i see no ego loaded into my perspective. and its something
i've been careful to make sure of.

>Please take care, Dan.  I wish you the best...  -Tim

thanks. please try not to take all this too harshly, its not meant as a
flame. and i hope you can realize that trying to change someones viewpoint
is loaded with ego, regardless of which is correct or incorrect, in fact,
those labels in themselves are ego, if you think about it.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Process/Event ; Grounding

To the list-memebers,
Although this was written in response to Dan, I'm very
interested in hearing from other list-members as well,
either about topics I've mentioned or some new ones.


At 03:47 PM 9/10/96 -0400, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
>slow rise the 'k'?

Dan you *can* slow the rate at which the change occurs.
If you relinquish your responsibility in the transformation... 
well...
it is said, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

What I have been told and what seems to fit *for me*
is that I am senior in my own process.  I am not a victim
of it, I am senior to it.  I can surrender to it and I do,
and when it gets to be too rapid, I can request that it slow
so I have a chance to integrate.

Through this process we become responsible--
that is, able to respond.

Dan said:
>sorry, but my k has risen all the way

is the rising of kundalini a process or an event?



Dan said:
>people tell me to ground myself, but i look at what grounding 
>means (closing the chakras, etc). that would give me an instant 
>heart-attack (physical). 

Dan, what does grounding mean to you?  
I find grounding to be an important part of my process, 
however for me it does not involve closing the chakras.  
Is this something someone told you? 
Perhaps there are alternatives to how you currently understand it.
(I think I heard someone say once... "There are always possibilities")

I use the analogy of a house, which has electricity flowing
freely through it.  
(The house is our body, the electricity is the kundalini)
If the house is not grounded, the electricity can fry the
wires, thus causing a fire and destroying the house.
If the house is grounded, the electricity flows freely and
can be used for various purposes... and it does *no damage*
to the house.
If our physical body is properly grounded, the energy flows
freely through us... flowing openly through each chakra and
allowing it to open fully.

How do others use or think about grounding?
Anyone have specific technques to share?

ori^


******************
*   ori^         *
* oriATNOSPAMeskimo.com *
****************** 



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 
From: "I.Juster" 
Subject: Re: Process/Event ; Grounding
-
>>How do others use or think about grounding?
>>Anyone have specific technques to share?
>>
>Grounding (for me)
>
>Physical: Being touched by another, hugged (firm pressure often wonderful),
as much body contact as possible, being on the floor and feeling mother
earth, hugging my cat, eating (especially dense foods like cheese,
chocolate, meat), orgasm, and breathing are all options. Ginger/lemon or mu
tea. Hot baths. Soft, like velvet and satin. Firelight.
>
>Mental: Being responsible for what is going on, or at least, telling myself
that I am, assuring myself that I am, that I chose what I am experiencing;
finding value in the experience, even if I have to look really long and
hard. Finding even one teeny little thing to appreciate. Reading (I am a
major bookaholic, the list is endless)...Reading this list and realizing I
am surrounded by loving people who know what I am talking about and who
would be there for me if I ever asked...
>
>Emotional: Giving away what it is I think I really want. Giving
unconditional love. Forgiveness. Tolerance. Tenderness. To others and EVEN
to myself! Cheering someone else up. Giving them a hug.
>
>Spiritual: Meditation of every variety, still, moving, feelng, being; out
in nature; silence; peaceful music; quiet; anything zen- macrobiotic food,
art, haiku...
>
>Funny how my list of grounding things includes such a mixture. Like
breathing; it can take me away when I need to go away, and bring me home,
when that is what I need to do. 
>
>
>Best, Patti
>
>
>



-
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMsanctum.com
Subject: Is this all there is? Is this all there is,  my friend?  Cause if....

> and by the way, not to be harsh or anything, but I am an atheist you know



I know I sure as hell didn't make me! And I also know that whatever did, ...is a 
hell of a lot smarter than I am!....



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Animals ?

The other morning when I woke I heard a growl next to my ear (I own no
pets).  It seemed external to me.  How  curious, I thought.  My K energies
are mild just now.  I did not particularly connect this auditory
halucination with K.  I have had very few.  More the internal voice kind of
thing.

However, my neighbor now just told me she saw a bob cat on my fence outside
my bedroom the other night.  (She no longer goes outside at night.)  We live
near the beach. It seems strange.   I told her it was probably attracted to
the heat my jacuzzi generates, but I began to wonder.  The area of my back
fence has attracted some strange energies in the past when the K was low.

Any advice?  Insights?  Suggestions?  I'd love to hear of them.

Mary



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: animals ?  part II

Oh, yeah.  A fox (maybe coyote) crossed my path on my way to work this am.
Only the second time I've seen one in 5 years of driving this way  1/2 the
mornings.

Yesterday, I slowed down to look at a big bird, looked like an owl to me,
and it flew back across the road almost into the front of the car.  I felt I
missed hitting her/him by less than an inch.  I loved being that close to
such a wonderful looking creature.

Animals.