kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 124
1 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96
From: Richard Satin
Subject: ADMIN: Summary of New Kundalini List Guidelines
Dear List Members,
-
Here is a summary of the new guidelines for the list.
I will repost these guidelines every few weeks for the benefit of new
members and to serve as a gentle "reminder" to everyone else - myself
included. As always, these constitute a framework only which is subject to
change if necessary. So, here goes:
1. Please don't quote any more of a post in your reply than necessary.
The optimum is not to quote anything at all except what is needed to put
your comment in perspective. DO NOT post "I agree" notes to the list. And
especially do not post "I agree" notes which quote a 7k long post!!! Your
fellow list members thank you.
2. Take "private" jokes, conversations, etc. off line. Do not post
anything which is of interest to only one person to the list in general.
Remember: everything which is posted to the list is rebroadcast to more than
140 people. Keep this in mind, and post privately whenever appropriate.
This is treating others with respect and consideration.
-
3. Try to make your header convey the subject of the post accurately. This
will really pay dividends to you and others. Take the extra 10 seconds. If
you are posting a personal experience, try something like
SUBJECT: Personal Experience. If it about a book you enjoyed, try SUBJECT:
Kundalini book. You get the idea. Make it specific when you can. This
will help the rest of the list members key in to the posts that are of
interest to them. In addition, you will find that more people will read
your post. Many members (myself included) find ourselves deleting tens of
posts at a time, because we simply run out of time to keep up.
-
The list is serving a great purpose. Almost everyone had kind words to say.
So it looks like we are succeeding to a very great degree. I know that I
am very thankful to be able to play a role in this list.
Very truly yours,
Richard
--------
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
.........................................................................=
...
Don=92t worry about what the world wants from you, worry about
what makes you come more alive. Because what the world really
needs are people who are more alive.
-Lawrence Le Shan
-
2 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96
From: Richard Satin
Subject: ADMIN: New Kundalini List Guidelines. Please Read and Save.
Dear List Members,
Thank you very much to the large number of you which responded publicly or
privately to my questions about the list's direction. I especially
appreciated the comments I received from people who have not yet posted to
the list. Hopefully you will feel comfortable enough to share with others
some of the things you hinted to in your emails. You are of great
importance to the rest of us.
While I didn't have time to respond to most of the emails, I want you to
know that I read each of them very carefully, and pondered everything you
had to say. Of course there were a whole range of responses. But there
were certain themes which continued to repeat themselves. These ideas have
been summarised in this letter.
The following letter from a member seems to capture the feelings of most of
who responded.
----------(excerpt)---------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the list:
1) Volume -- seems high. I can keep up if I checked mail daily, but
Mondays and post-vacation are problems. I use e-mail at work and don't
have my own computer.
2) Moderated vs. unmoderated list.
...many posts have seemed to be remarks better addressed to the
individual, or simply "chatty" with no immediate context. I'm more
interested in the phenomenology of kundalini activity, how it fits into
our models of reality, and how people deal with it. I'm not particularly
interested in clever, off-the-cuff remarks.
3) Have I been offended? My gut response to the IMHO comment was that
someone was trying to be clever while not answering the question. So not
only was it potentially insulting to gay/lesbian groups, it also
denigrated an honest query by not answering.
4) How should the list be changed? Less chat. Helpful responses. More
accounts of awakening.
---------------(end excerpt)------------------------------------------------
At the end of this post are more excerpts for those of you who are
interested. Here is what I propose to "tweak" the list a bit so as to
better serve all of our members. These guidelines will be incorporated in
the faq (frequently asked questions) file for the list. I ask all of us to
try to conscientiously stick to these. Very few of you want a moderated
list. I don't really care to take the time to do that, and I agree with the
people who suggested that such a thing would eliminate the "freedom" we have
with this vehicle as it stands. So, as long as we can all try to work
within this framework, it will not be necessary to go "moderated" at this
time.
I will repost these guidelines every few weeks for the benefit of new
members and to serve as a gentle "reminder" to everyone else - myself
included. As always, these constitute a framework only which is subject to
change if necessary. So, here goes:
1. Please don't quote any more of a post in your reply than necessary.
The optimum is not to quote anything at all except what is needed to put
your comment in perspective. DO NOT post "I agree" notes to the list. And
especially do not post "I agree" notes which quote a 7k long post!!! Your
fellow list members thank you.
-
2. Take "private" jokes, conversations, etc. off line. Do not post
anything which is of interest to only one person to the list in general.
Remember: everything which is posted to the list is rebroadcast to more than
140 people. Keep this in mind, and post privately whenever appropriate.
This is treating others with respect and consideration.
3. Try to make your header convey the subject of the post accurately. This
will really pay dividends to you and others. Take the extra 10 seconds. If
you are posting a personal experience, try something like
SUBJECT: Personal Experience. If it about a book you enjoyed, try SUBJECT:
Kundalini book. You get the idea. Make it specific when you can. This
will help the rest of the list members key in to the posts that are of
interest to them. In addition, you will find that more people will read
your post. Many members (myself included) find ourselves deleting tens of
posts at a time, because we simply run out of time to keep up.
The list is serving a great purpose. Almost everyone had kind words to say.
So it looks like we are succeeding to a very great degree. I know that I
am very thankful to be able to play a role in this list.
-
Very truly yours,
Richard
----------------(other comments follow)-------------------------------------
"I look forward to checking my e mail everyday, because I
know there will be posts there from my fellow list members.!"
"All these things have helped me move out of a bad spot, and I feel like I'm
blossoming again."
There are a large number of people on the list, who are feeling frustrated.
The main reason for this seems to be the "private conversations" which
should really be taken off line.
"I have never posted to the list...You see, that's a problem, I think I have
interesting thing to contribute, but cannot do it with all this chat going
on.
"I have a feeling that the people I will reach with my communication: the
effective, creative, spiritual, busy people with long experience and good
knowledges of
the k-litterature and similar things leave the list after a few weeks
lurking. The signal-to-noise level is to low for them. They don't have the
time and patience to select the raisins.
"(I waste a lot of time erasing all these chat-noises. I erase at a high
velocity, and do sometimes miss the signal, at least the value of the
signals is decreased... a kind of hopelessness...)
-
>4. How would you like to see the list changed? Or, do you like it just
the
>way it is?
I want everybody to ask silent:
1. Is this necessary to post?
2. Is this close to the topic of kundalini?
3. Is this private communication? In that case I will post it directly.
-
The problem is that, say 10 persons currently posting, are emotionally upset
by what is happening with them. They need support, and have found that they
can use the list as a private, therapeutic and pep-talk line. They don't
realise that they misuse the list for hundreds of others. They don't realise
that this list gets a too great turnover. There is a natural selection of
people. The dominating type of talks draw people of same kind, other people
unsubscribe. The results is a narrow, boring and unstable list.
While this type of ongoing conversation might be interesting to the few who
are participating in it - and they might be learning alot about themselves
through the arguement - BUT.......It would be nice to see a little more
discernment being put into use.
I would say that I think there are a lot of posts like the response ones
that are me too etc. kinds of posts that should be sent privately. One of
the lists I am on occasionally posts reminders to post those types of
response privately and reminding them to keep the posts mainly to list
topics. I believe there is a "safe place atmophere" when you can post
slightly (and I mean slightly) off
topic such as support etc. which allows more freedom to post from your heart
when you are going through such heavy spiritual changes and being able to
say whats really happening for you.
WAY TOO MUCH. I consider unsubscribing at least once a day.
1) Way too much mail. I've been a subscriber for about 3-4 weeks now
and I am amazed at how much mail there is. I delete threads at a time,
it's just too time consuming to read through everything.
-
Also, some subscribers post many times a day, which seems to me to be a bit
insensitive to those of us who work outside the home full time and can't
possilbly wade through 68 mail messages when we get home and consequently
have to delete the entire batch.
>It's easy enough,..just keep the subject where it belongs...KUNDALINI!
I second this motion.
I joined the list to discuss, learn, and listen to others about
experiences, techniques for working with, understandings, etc.
with and about kundalini.
I understand we may each have different perspectives, and I'd like
to request that if you have something to share which relates to the
topic of kundalini, please clarify how you see that it relates if
it might not be apparent to others.
It has been a bit much lately, especially multiple postings by
individuals which are often responses to others which perhaps
would have been better off directed to the individual than to
the list.
unmoderated list for two reasons:
(1) you already give so much of your energy (read time, money etc.) to this
list I believe it would be a great burden to have to moderate this list.
(2) I am more in favor of a self-moderated list wherein we help remind each
other (gently and lovingly) when we stray.
but list members need to reply to individual
>members whenever the topic applies just to that member, and they can
>usually delete the original message when it is posted on the list.
YES. 90%+ is banal, trite and off subject. Most posters cannot
differentiate between kundalini and pysczophrenia[sp?]. This is not a
feel good group for general malaise. So much of this needs to be handled
thru private e-mail.
I'm fussing a lot but there's the occasional jewel that justifies
sorting through the dregs.
I feel the volume of mail needs to be reduced. Lets us start
with not posting to the list comments like "I liked that",
"agree with you" etc.
Moderated list is not a bad idea either.
just remind the list repeatedly to keep
messages clean and short while retaining the valuable parts. Like by
not including the original message in full since we all have already
received it, especially the "I AGREE" 's which include the whole
original message. I'd just like to say that for me it's not a matter of
network resources. I use ISDN and have lots of room for excess baggage.
It just takes me longer to browse for meaningful content.
What does get tiresome, though, are inside conversations that are
posted to everybody. I understand that they lend spontenaity and a
sense of group-ness, and some back-and-forth stuff has been quite
interesting, like the guru discussion, but given the volume of mail,
taking the time to pull up a message of 2 or 3 words makes me sigh.
-
***********************
I really need the contact with
other kindred souls, but in my opinion, the general line of discussion has
reduced itself to mere chat as opposed to what I thought the original intent
was. There is far too many responses that should really be sent to the
original poster rather than to the list and in doing so, clogs everyone
else's mail box with things that are really irrelevant.
I may be way off base about this, but it seems to me that some of the folks
who are most experienced with kundalini have become strangely silent, my
guess being that the sheer volume has overwhelmed them or they simply lost
interest since the subject seems to have strayed.
Those people who I
originally loved hearing from were Jean Tracy, El Collie, Graham D. etc. We
all need the wisdom these people have.
I would welcome a moderated list if only for the reason that it seems now to
have gone out of control and needs to return to the original reason it was
started, so we can all learn. It is fine to let folks speak their minds but
at some point that infringes on the abilities of others to participate.
I definitely think that the list has gotten way off base. Kundalini is a
methodology which no one is discusing.
My preference is a self-moderated list, which means we might have
to remind one another from time to time about how to keep the list
as we would like it. Only if that proves not to work would I vote
for a moderated list.
-
As someone pointed out, Wendy has started a channel on IRC
undernet and a few of us have met there at times for more
general chatting. All are welcome to join.
However once in a while their have been hostile posts from folks who did
want
to offend. I have been the object of such posts myself. Guidelines might
help here. I always assume that such people perhaps don't fully realize
the
pain they cause.
What does trouble me is that those few hostile posts may prevent some people
from either being on the list who need it, or prevent some from posting who
could be very helpful to others. I'm not sure how to solve that one,
except
if it is blatant to ask them to stop, and/or remove them from the list if
necessary.
-
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Don't worry about what the world wants from you, worry about
what makes you come more alive. Because what the world really
needs are people who are more alive.
-Lawrence Le Shan
3 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996
From: vetfindATNOSPAMinteraccess.com (Judy Kavanaugh)
Subject: El Collie
Hello to everyone,
I just received the latest issue of Shared Transformation and was disturbed
by a small insert on the second page. It read "El is very sick - her liver
& kidneys have been damaged by toxic prescription medication. Because of
this, she may not be able to respond to correspondence for quite some time.
We welcome your prayers for her recovery."
In case some of you don't know about Shared Transformation, it is an
incredibly informative and supportive newsletter edited by El Collie just
for those undergoing spiritual emergence. It has been a great help to me in
my quest for information and links to others with a kundalini awakening.
-
Perhaps it might be a worthy project to set a time and day for collective
prayers for El. I can't imagine the potential power in a group of people
with awakened kundalini praying for one request.
El has done so much for those of us who were floundering to help us
understand and accept both the good and the ugly of kundalini awakenings
that maybe this is the least we can do in return. Anyone else of a like
mind? Maybe this Sunday at 9 Central STandard time for 15 minutes?
Judy
4 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996
From: John Carlson
Subject: oops
Actually, I have felt a tapping on my head. It usually happens during
the night, and it's sort of like one of my family is trying to contact
me. I haven't felt much lately. Do many people respond to this tapping?
What does it mean to you?
John Carlson
6 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996
From: ori^
Subject: Psychosis vs Spiritual emergence
Somebody wrote:
>>Since people apparently experience symptoms of psychosis durring a K.
>>awakening, what guide lines does someone use to understand whether a
>>person is psychotic or an emotionaly healthy person experiencing K?
I responded:
>The Spiritual Emergence Network deals with some of these very
>aspects. I have a whole notebook full of suggested ways to
>differentiate between spiritual awakening and psychotic episodes.
>From what I have seen this was part of the reason SEN was formed
>was to help educate professionals and lay people about the differences.
I perceive kundalini awakening to be one form of spiritual emergence.
I attended a workshop presented by the coordinator of our local SEN
group, Steve Pepping. He compiled the following list (basing it on a
book I haven't seen yet called: Healing the split / by John E. Nelson)
-
Characteristics That May Help To Distinguish A Spiritual Emergency
>From Regressive Psychosis
1. Onset is precipitated by a stressful life event or involvement
in spiritual practices.
2. Ecstatic mood, although there may be attendant anxiety.
- 3. Only mildly disorganized thinking.
4. Hallucinations of the "Higher Order."
5. Intact reality testing.
6. Good social functioning prior to onset of the Altered State
of Consciousness.
7. Insight that something within has changed.
-
8. Absence of paranoia, although there may be appropriate fear.
9. Positive and exploratory attitude towards the experience as
relative to one's life.
10. Limited duration of the Altered State of Consciousness.
11. Enhanced social and personal functioning when the episode
is over.
-
**
A few other indicators which can be used to assist in differentiating
between spiritual emergence and psychosis are such things as:
Medical criteria such as tests which might deny or confirm physical
disease or organic impairment
Psychological criteria such as personal functioning prior to the onset
- of the spiritual emergence; possible insight that the process
is healing or spiritual in nature; satisfactory ability to
distinguish between the inner and the outer, awareness that
the process is intrapsychic; cooperation in things related to
physical health, basic maintenance (e.g. eating, drinking,
sleeping).
Of course, these are not carved in stone. They are simply guidelines.
How does one tell the difference between someone who might be speaking
to a spirit guide, in contrast with someone who is schizophrenic and
hearing voices? How does one differentiate between someone who has
entered into a deep, prolonged meditative state vs. someone who might
be psychotically cataleptic?
At times our society has erred on the side of treating all these types
of "symptoms" as medical conditions. Organizations like SEN have been
formed out of a need to educate people and offer support to those who
are experiencing the very natural process of spiritual emergence.
I would welcome further discussion about this.
ori^
************************
* ori^ *
* mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com *
************************
-
7 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996
From: Mark Rivera
Subject: Re: Psychosis vs Spiritual emergence
Dear Ori:
I found your criteria to be quite interesting. I have a friend who's Wife
had Epilepsy, but did not know she had it or even be aware of the dormant
condition until after Shakti-Pat initiation many years ago. She's okay,
but I find it extraordinary that as the kundalini cleans us out of our
stuff (Can't think of a better word at this time.) that emotional ups and
downs are common. I also find it interesting that there is a
classification between the two phenemenon. Lastly, I have experienced
dreams that are vivid and mood swing that are intense as well as good
mediatation. Shakti, isn't easy, but it's helped me in the long run.
Though, sometimes, it's even hard for me to see it. I think that many if
not all people carry some form of emotional baggage that creates neurotic
behavior. I myself suffer from anxiety, but I always have I didn't realize
until I had psychotherapy and shakti to learn these characteristics of
mysself. My basic point is I believe that Kundalini not only compliments
many if not all forms of religiouys faith, but it also compliments
psychology and sociology as well as physics. I am glad you wrote these
things because it's helpful for members to hear all forms and voices when
it comes to this mailing list and the information and communication it
provides. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Mark
-
8 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: King Richard
Dear King Richard:
Your honor, this is my humble opinion.
-
King Richard that is all knowledgeable and has special knowledge concerning
kundalini. Your concepts are way to narrow for me. Your shield of armor
has the words written in black ink across the front that say,"
non-negotiable." That is your only protection. I asked you and or^
many times to debate with me concerning your concepts of kundalini. You
are both afraid because you don't have any knowledge of this subject. I have
personal knowledge and also have been trained in kundalini. There are just
a very few people on this list that has any personal experience with the full
awakening of the kundalini. I thought that I might contribute a little to the
list even though I have been warned many times not to talk. Because I am
very hard headed I still had to try anyway, but now I can see more than ever
the reason behind those words of secrecy.
I will now will go back into my own secrecy to which I pledged my spiritual
teacher. The seed has been planted and that is all that I could do at this
time. For those special few people that have eyes these word will have
special meaning God said, "I was here all along ,but you did take notice
me, so play on my little play mates, play on,"
Good luck to all. I was very happy to talk with many of you and will miss
you. Be strong as the seed has been planted. From Ram Dass " Every thing is
perfect!"
So King Richard please take my name off the list.
Love,
Von.
-
9 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996
From: GrandmmaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Psychosis vs Spiritual emergence
Dear Ori,
Your information was interesting. I have been in the grips of a spontaneous
full blown K awakening for the past 3 years. It has been a most fantastic
and painful experience for me. But the new found awareness has been worth
the pain. Concerning your topic psychosis vs Spiritual emergence I have many
thoughts and questions. I have a friend who experienced her K awakening some
10 years ago. She had no support during the initial awakening and ended up
with a diagnosis of Schizophrenia. She was put on heavy doses of meds when
she became very psychotic and was a danger to herself. When I met her
about 1 year ago we started comparing notes. When she heard voices they came
through her left ear. When I receive channeled information it comes through
the area just behind my right ear. Most of her more extensive physical pain
was centered on her left side. eg. Her left arm frequently would become
numb. My right arm goes numb. The list goes on and on. It seemed more
that a coincident (especially since there are no coincidents) that her right
side was effected while my left side took the brunt of the K sensations. I
often wonder if there is a left brain right brain thing going on here. Her
initial K experiences were very simular to mine except she to this day has to
remain of meds to stop the voices. My voices provide general information to
assist me in this process. Her voices tell her to destroy her beloved pets
and get rid of all her belongings. She is very much enlightened except when
the voices take over. I want so much to help her. I have been searching for
answers. My k experience has been a gift while she views hers as a curse.
- Any thoughts would be welcome.
Light and love
Jean
10 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996
From: John Marynowicz
Subject: Re: Psychosis vs Spiritual emergence
-
At 07:04 PM 8/29/96 -0700, ori^ wrote:
>
>I responded:
>>The Spiritual Emergence Network deals with some of these very
>>aspects. I have a whole notebook full of suggested ways to
>>differentiate between spiritual awakening and psychotic episodes.
>>From what I have seen this was part of the reason SEN was formed
>>was to help educate professionals and lay people about the differences.
(for the sake of brevity I have snipped ori^s very good list of guidelines.
They are very similar to the ones listed in Dr. Kason's book A FARTHER SHORE)
>A few other indicators which can be used to assist in differentiating
>between spiritual emergence and psychosis are such things as:
>
>Medical criteria such as tests which might deny or confirm physical
> disease or organic impairment
>
>Psychological criteria such as personal functioning prior to the onset
> of the spiritual emergence; possible insight that the process
> is healing or spiritual in nature; satisfactory ability to
> distinguish between the inner and the outer, awareness that
> the process is intrapsychic; cooperation in things related to
> physical health, basic maintenance (e.g. eating, drinking,
> sleeping).
>
>From Dr. Kason's book I can add to these indicators, I quote the following
rule of thumb:
-
"Although no one but a qualified mental-health care professional can make a
diagnosis involving mental illness, the following rule of thumb is helpful:
If a person can distinquish between inner and outer experiences, is clearly
aware of which inner experiences do not fit into the prevailing world view
of reality, is able to function in the world, is able to make discerning
judgements, and has appropriate control of his or her emotions, he or she
is, by definition, not pscychotic. This is true no matter how unusual or
bizarre the inner experiences may seem."
-
>Of course, these are not carved in stone. They are simply guidelines.
>How does one tell the difference between someone who might be speaking
>to a spirit guide, in contrast with someone who is schizophrenic and
>hearing voices? How does one differentiate between someone who has
>entered into a deep, prolonged meditative state vs. someone who might
>be psychotically cataleptic?
>
Dr Kason lists a very useful table comparing symptoms of Spiritual Emergency
and symptoms of Psychosis. They are similar but clearly different. I will
gladly post if anyone wants them. On the issue of voices she states that in
a Spiritual Emergency one can ignore the voices BUT in an episode of
Psychosis the person is overwhelmed by the voices.
>At times our society has erred on the side of treating all these types
>of "symptoms" as medical conditions. Organizations like SEN have been
>formed out of a need to educate people and offer support to those who
>are experiencing the very natural process of spiritual emergence.
>
-
Dr Kason also makes a very clear distinction between Spiritual Emergence and
Spiritual Emergency. The former is a natural evolution and the latter is a
crisis requiring proffesional attention.
She also mentions that the American Psychiatric Association has recently
approved a new diagnostic code for the DSM-IV. Apparently this is the
handbook used by pscyiatrists, doctors and pscychologists in making mental
illness diagnosies. The new code is called "V62.89 Religious or Spritual
Problem". It's now being officially recognized by the mainstream medical
community.
Her book also goes into great detail as to how to manage these Spiritual
Emergencies and what seems to be the cause for them. Basically it boils
down to lifestyle. A balanced lifestyle seems to facilitate a healthy
Spritual Emergence.
It is heartening to know that organizations such as SEN exist. For far too
long people who have been going thru Kundalini experiences have been
erroneously labeled as schizophrenic and treated as such. The kind of work
SEN is doing is becoming ever more important as more and more people wake up.
Well, enough babble for now.
Peace and Light
John Marynowicz