Date: Wed, 17 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 58 [1] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers) Subject: Re: Debee Dear Natha, Michelle here. I am wondering if you are skeptical to the power of healers?? Or are healers only believable to you if they are specially, and purposefully trained in the doctrine you follow? Do you believe in spontanious awakening? Not complete awakening, in a moment, - but a slow awakening of the spirit without anyone holding their hands - telling them which way to go, only their spirit as the perfect guru? I believe that this type of thing is happening en-masse throughout the world, and that it will be revealed within about a year or so, that there is a huge contingency of very psychic people. We will be the new generation to break all the "rules", and come to have this tremendous life energy living within us, and us capuring it, and being comfortable with it, and not trying to fight with it anymore. All will follow with time, and we will all have to learn to cope with this energy and accept that something this huge loves us completely. It is a learning process. If I shut down this energy when I was feeling insane, and going mad, then I wouldn't have achieved the comfort with it that I have now. This energy needs time to adjust to us, and figure a way to communicate with us, Our listening skills must go WAY beyond just hearing within our ears. We will communicate through our hearts, inner eyes, with feelings and touch, with heat, inner sight and hearing. I do ramble on... I've said enough, In light, Michelle >Debee L. Thomas wrote: >> >> Natha, >> My name is Debee and I've been asked to host a web page for the >> Kundalini Resource Center based in Hawaii. It will deal with meditation >> and creative visualization. They have asked me to find meditations and >> such which will assist with the rising K or pave the way. Things such as >> clearing chakras, releasing anger, and other negative emotions. I am >> looking for people who would like to contribute some which they use and >> which they find are helpful to themselves. I believe they could be >> helpful to others too. If you know of any and would be willing to share >> them with others, would you be willing to send me some? It would be >> greatly appreciated. I don't know if you saw the post I put up about it >> or not, and if you did, please forgive me for sending you this now. If >> you are interested in helping out, please let me know. >> >> Blessed Be >> >> Debee------------------------------------------------------ > [2] From: Natha Bhaktyananda Subject: Re: To George-the-alien Thanks George, that was a very, very ispired message about kundalini. I think it must have taken you long to write it -- almost as long as it took to read it presumably. It is good to see the Internet space used efficiently... With this deep philosophical stuff you can found a new religion (especially if you live in CA); you will soon find some people witnessing for some channelized messages from your aliens. It's all light... Please don't forget to read also today's message from the list concerning "kundalini and mental ilness", there might be some useful correlations there. Bless you, -- Natha Bhaktyananda Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668 [3] From: Natha Bhaktyananda Subject: To Graham Thank you for your kind message of clarification -- it seems we agree on a lot of subjects. I would also like to add a few words to your messages from today. ------------------- Graham wrote: Utlimately though, any spiritual teachings are simply there to help you along the way. Eventually you will reach a point where you will simply know God and your actions will be the actions of God. All scriptures at this point become meaningless as they are no longer required. ------------------- "Eventually" of course means when you become Buddha yourself, or the creator of a new world-religion or of a new (and genuine) spiritual path. Until then... ------------------- Graham (also) wrote: You have an understanding which many people do not accept easily. That is, that there are many paths to God. Too often people will push a particular doctrine because they believe it is the only correct path. ------------------- That is so very true. It is painful to see how much conflict still exists today because of this dogmatic narrow-mindedness. At the same time one must not forget that among the so many paths there are also a lot of dead-ends and false paths. Not every amator that thinks that he/she founds a new religion can be put on the same level of authority with Jesus or Shankara. So there is also need for discrimination between the authorised paths and the phoney ones. ------------------- And Graham wrote more: One area where it is important to exercise discrimination and judgement is when we hear gossip. There were recently comments made about the sexual activities of certain Gurus. -------------------- It is of course disappointing to hear that guru-s who were supposed to be celibate and who did show this face to the world, did all kind of hanky-panky of sexual nature in secret. On the other hand, we should not forget that there are *Tantric* guru-s (in the true meaning of that name, and not the watered-down version) who teach their lore, and that they are *expected* to do *precisely* that, since it is a part of their teaching. But then the people who join the party know in advance what is all about, and they can make their own desicions as grown-ups. With the hope of continuing our good spiritual cooperation in the future also, I remain spiritually yours, -- Natha Bhaktyananda Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668 [4] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Answers Hi: Dororthy and every one. May I step in and by the way I am not always right. I am also looking for answers. Dorothy was saying..... >I have done psychic work for >a long time and spent 3 years in a Western spiritual path and what I keep >feeling while reading your messages is a powerful arrogance, an overbearing >ego, a mania for imparting information. -------------------------- This ego and arrogance that manifests itself so easily as a person progresses on the path is indeed dangerous. If you ever buy a spiritual magazine such as on yoga for example. You will see full page ads for special training from a true great master and the a full size self portrait or picture of someone. The picture is usually made up with eye shadow, lipstick ( even if it is a man) hair perfectly arranged, Etc. This means that there is a strong ego involved and be very cautious. Most of the time you have to seek out a great teacher as they won't come to you. Also many organizations that have special knowledge won't come to you. When you are ready you will find them and then you can not talk. Why do the Hatha Yoga masters that have already written many books and know everything look so out of shape. I practice Hatha Yoga also and I can tell you that the ego will come out full force once you think you have reached a certain level. It will completely destroy meditation if not controlled. I always see a tightrope in my mind. At a certain lever I sometimes think that it should be given up and replaced with meditation because the lesson has been learned. Any thing more will only bring out the ego and that is why Hatha Yoga masters that have already written many books and know every thing look out of shape. It's because Hatha is just a stepping stone to meditation and also makes the body strong enough to hold the kundalini energy. This is my own thinking so no offence to any one. So you should never just fall in love only with the teacher or church, but try to see what is being said. They are like a finger pointing the way, but they are not the way it self. Look beyond their ego and power. There is a lot of conversation about mental illness associated with spiritual awakening and kundalini. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from a crazy person to an enlightened person. ( Yes I know what you are thinking now.) You may see a street person that is always smiling and seems very happy, but is crazy or you may see a real master truly enlightened and does not care about money. They may dress like a bum with long hear, Etc. Can you tell the difference? I called on the mental hospital in my job. There are many patients that are much smarter than the nurses and doctors. Many patients tie bed sheets together to make a rope and then climb out the top story windows. They hot wire the City and County trucks and joy ride all over town. When they get tired they drive back to the hospital and on the way they back stop by the liquor store and buy a bottle of wine. The hospital staff never even knows about it. In one of my visits I found that the nurses had taken the patients out of their wheelchairs and lined them up next to the wall. The nurses were racing back and forth down the hall in the patients wheelchairs. What makes it even harder to tell the patients from the hospital staff is when the staff sets up a smart patient as a group leader and the patient is actually in charge. The nurses just leave. You may never read about these things in the newspapers. It is interesting anyway. I found many patients that come up to me and say I am you X-Ray technician or physical therapist and they can talk for a very long time and use all the right words. I some times am not sure for awhile if they are really the technicians or not. Right is the middle of their conversation they may say something like" I bleed like Jesus Christ, you know" Then I think it must be a patient. But think about this. Does not a Zen master for example always talk in terms like that for meditation themes. Again, no offence to any one. Love, Von [5] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Debee Natha, I agree with what you wrote 100%. I see more people channeling this spirit and that. And, it is very difficult to break the illusion because the person so believes in it. I always suggest while on the other side in the invisible world, that the forces are tested and confronted directly that breaks the illusion and the release comes along. But, you have to be clear inside to do that. I am with you about working on purification, humility, letting go of control of ones life, seeking quiet, monitoring thoughts all day every day and bringing detachment directly into action. And when able to really get grounded in the heart center, then and only then can you awaken the dragon. Do you go along with this? Gloria [6] From: John Halonen Subject: Thank you for sharing. Thank you Natha for sharing information with us. When you find a group or list like this, it is in hope that some knowledge can be gained from it. Hatha Yoga you said was about preparing the nadis or energy channels. What would be a good book to read to get started on Hatha Yoga and do you need an instructor for this type of yoga. Sincerely, John Halonen [7] From: Iver Juster Subject: A [different]Vision of Evolution There seems to be a lot of consensus that the k is an evolutionary force. Many people feel that the evolutionary process is an upward one. I played "what if" and had this vision: The birthplace of Tantra is the valley between Inida and Tibet (Nepal, Bhutan?) etc. >From there of course Tantra went west to become a yoga. And east to become the source of Tantric Buddism. (I have read this much in a book on the origins of Buddist Tantra.) The energy of the k was once a simple, creative energy. With the development of these religions over time, the interpretation of the k became more and more complex, fragmented amongst various cultures. This parallels what happened to civilization that got more and more into the definitions, the labels, the names, the territories, the power trips, etc. K itself became more and more removed from something an ordinary person could experience. It was placed into the hands of priests, monks, and so on. Common folk were told that they were unclean, unpure, etc. .... Now: evolution happens as male and female join together, to create and co-create ever more adaptable and valuable energies (life among them) Maybe for true evoltution to happen, there needs to be balance. The female (the undifferentiated whole) must match (catch up to) the evolution that the male side (the fragmented many) has undergone. If this is true, then the evolutionary force is not about going higher and higher, but about achieving the balance between the one and the many. And given the overwhelming emphasis we (certainly this list is included) have had on the "going higher" part, maybe true evolution will occur as we can "surrender into" the vast ocean of pure undifferentiated energy, not the other way around. A boundaries dissolve, the god and goddess in all of us is revealed. The love pours forth, the wars will end. There is nothing to do, but to surrender into the divine oneness. For our planet, this may represent a far greater evolutionary leap than continued bickering over whose way is more "right." ...just an idea Best, Patti [8] From: Daryl Barnett Subject: Way too much talking and thinking... I suscribed to this list yesterday. As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need to be -discussed- . For followers/seekers to attain the ultimate, we need to meditate and live the path of Yoga. Talking will only undermine our attempts. Read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Read the Yoga Vasishta. Read and know the Bhagavad Gita. Share your experiences. Request prayer from others for your difficulties. Do not intellectualize kundalini. I am unsuscribing today. Sincerely, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daryl Barnett dbarnettATNOSPAMcats.ucsc.edu 408.458.9399 University of California Santa Cruz "I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do. I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use silence, exile and cunning." James Joyce (1882=961941), Irish author. Stephen Dedalus, in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, ch. 5 (1916). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [9] From: Stevie Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking... "As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need to be -discussed-," said Daryl. __________ [10] From: Wendy Subject: Smiles to All The other day I wrote this to a friend, partially inspired by all the k talk. It's meant with a light heart, and sent with a smile, to All. Helpful Hints for How to Behave Appropriately in the Presence of a Saint 1) Upon meeting a Saint, bow but not TOOOO deferentially. After all, you yourself could be one and NOT EVEN KNOW IT. 2) Shake his or her hand before you kiss it, so as not to make them feel unearthly. Saints are people too ya know.3) Be yourself. If you start being someone else, even Saints can get confused. 4) If you're dying to talk about your tatoo and it's in a 'private place' (as they say in the 3rd grade 'sex ed' classes now)...be sure the Saint has their veil lifted so they can get a better view. 5) When in the presence of a Saint, allow all the good energy vibes to seep into your pours. If you notice a tree....talk to it. If you notice a rock moving, follow it. There are many paths to Sainthood. Not all are paved in cobblestones. 6) If the Saint wishes to Bless you with his/her shaktipat, there's nothing you need do but 'Be Here Now.' The rest will be taken care of by God. 7) Don't get her/him too drunk or her/his aura might start peeing on your lawn. Saints have the same basic anatanomical functions non-Saints do. Or so I'm told. 8) Don't mention Crosses. 9) Beatific smiling is allowed. 10) Worship God. Not drunken Saints. Um, Wendy http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders _________________________ Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance. - David Wilcox _________________________ The reverse side always has a reverse side - Japanese proverb [11] From: Christopher Forth Subject: Introduction Hi, all-- I'm glad I finally found a discussion group like this. My name is Chris, I'm 29 and live in Memphis. I had what I believe was a kundalini experience a week ago, but am not very sure. While I've read a bit about the experience, I'm not sure if mine fits--hence, I'm very interested in seeing what other subscribers think about this. I began meditating with a friend who had awakened kundalini several months before, and within ten days I found that I too began swaying from side to side during our sittings. I really wasn't trying to awaken the energy, mostly because of the psychosis that attended my friend's awakening (he's fine now, it seems). Two days later I sat by myself and decided to see what the swaying led to, and was quite surprised by the result. The side-to-side movement quickened over the course of a few minutes, and very abruptly shifted to a front-to-back movement. This too lasted several minutes, intensifying throughout. Towards the end my entire body was convulsing as energy began to move upwards through my neck, which now was bent backwards. This too passed through, and left me feeling as if energy was streaming throughout my body. When after a minute or so of complete pleasure, it started again (at this point I stopped, mostly to recover my wits). Since then, I begin swaying every time I sit, and go through several "cycles" of the above, which are generally less intense. I've found that I can almost immediately go into meditation now, whereas I had some trouble previously with relaxation. Now for some observations. While I had some spinal sensations at first, the experience was much more generalized than I've read. And yet, yesterday I noted that my spine began tingling by itself when I was NOT sitting (this lasted for several hours). Also, there is a distinct sense of sexual arousal (at times it's pretty obvious!) attending these experiences. I'd very much appreciate some reactions to these symptoms, which generally conform to what I know about kundalini. Do these suggest proper development? Is this happening too quickly? Have I been influenced by the experience of my friend to such an extent that I am somehow "willing" these experiences (though that seems unlikely)? Is it possible to have one's kundalini awakened by simply being NEAR another during meditation? I'm familiar with shaktipat, but this friend hardly seems capable of directing his energy, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Finally, what to do now? The swami I had been taking raja yoga classes with is now out of the country, and I really don't have a guru to turn to at this time. I've heard all of the warnings about messing with this energy without guidance, and am thus understandably concerned about doing much more than simply meditating. Any suggestions? Sorry to bombard the list with these questions, but I don't know where else to turn. Any advice or responses would be greatly appreciated. Best, Chris [12] From: Karol Ann Barnett Subject: Re: Answers Dorothy and All: Somehow I missed Natha's post so I won't comment on that, but I can say that there have been many self-proclaimed professionals who try to reduce the k-experience to a brain/chemical malfunction. I cannot believe that any who espouse this theory have ever experienced the k. For myself, I can only say that what I have learned from my experience has more meaning and value to me than anyone's theory. It is real. It is profound. And it is changing us from the DNA up, IMO. I agree with you, Dorothy, that the DSMs are in the process of radical revision and we have the kundalini to thank for that. Karol Ann [13] From: Graham Dumpleton Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking... Daryl Barnett wrote: > > As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find > the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need > to be -discussed- . > > For followers/seekers to attain the ultimate, we need to meditate and live > the path of Yoga. > > Talking will only undermine our attempts. Would a true Guru, ie., one who loves his/her followers and cares for the spiritual well being of his/her followers, keep his/her followers ignorant. No, he gives his followers through word of mouth as well as through written text his teachings. If we were never to talk, how could we ever ask questions of the Guru in order to learn from his wisdom. A Guru will know a great deal more than what you find in the written texts. If this weren't the case and it were possible to rely purely on written texts, why would we need to go to the Guru in the first place. The Guru could set up shop at the local supermarket and if we really wanted the experience of the Guru, we could visit the supermarket to obtain his blessing the same as if we were going to buy a loaf of bread. If one believes every thing the Guru says simply because they say it, all we are doing is submitting ourselves to their control. You do not honour the Guru or God by doing this. One has to evaluate what the Guru says and come to an understanding of his message. The road you travel to spiritual enlightenment is not the same as the Guru, thus how can you expect his experiences and his insights to mean exactly the same thing for you. It is often necessary to intellectualise something we hear to be able to come to some understanding of it and what it means to us. It is the nature of the mind and the self that we do this. If we deny this within ourselves we deny God as that nature comes from God. One person cannot have all the answers, although, someone elses answer isn't always the answer for us either. All the same, the list is a valuable meeting point where issues can be discussed. We still will not find all the answers on the list and thus it can also be worthwhile to read the written texts, but can you say that they have all the answers either. -- Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)