Date: Sat, 13 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 50 
[1] From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Gopi Krishna Says...

Here's a new topic for discussion.  In a new book on Gopi Krishna's 
writings that I'm now reviewing, he has this to say...

"With the awakening of Kundalini, an amazing activity commences in the 
whole nervous system, from the crown of the head to the toes.  The body 
is now transformed into a miniature laboratory, working at high speed day 
and night.  In the Chinese documents this phenomenon is described as the 
"circulation of light" and in the Indian manuals as the "uprising of 
shakti," or life energy.  Nerves in all parts of the body whose existence 
is never felt by normal consciousness are now forced by some invisible 
power to a new type of activity, which either immediately or gradually 
becomes perceptible to the subject.  Through all their innumerable 
endings, they begin to extract a nectarlike essence from the surrounding 
tissues that, traveling in essence, streams into the spinal cord."


[2] From: Graham Dumpleton 
Subject: Re: Personal Effects of Kundalini

I'd like to add a bit more to what I have already said about the Bentov
model so as to provide information on other thoughts on the Kundalini
process as well as raise some of the objections to the Bentov model.
I'll give a few more references for those who want to look in to this.

Graham Dumpleton wrote
>
> David Pfeffer wrote:
> > My name is David Pfeffer and I am new to the list.   I came across
> > Kundalini from a news group posting.  I was wondering about what occurs
> > when Kundalini energy begins to "flow" in the body.
> > ...
> > However, in my spine there has been a tingling sensation
> > and I get a lot of body shivers after an exercise.  Does someone have
> > an idea as to why this occurs?
>
> ...
>
> The Bentov model came about because of Bentov's research of the effect
> of long term meditation on the physical body. What he was able to measure
> was a series of mirco-oscillations in the body. He hypothesises the
> major oscillation is caused due to a standing wave oscillation of the
> blood in the major aorta carrying blood away from the heart and up to
> the brain. The frequency of this oscillation is about seven hertz and
> was seen to occur in deep meditation. The flow on effect of this was to
> trigger a whole series of oscillations within the body and especially
> the skull.

Within what was already described about the Bentov model it was given
that it was felt that not only do we store up stuff in our chakras, but
within the structure of the brain. This in itself is quite different to
the normal teachings in esoteric literature. There are other issues
which also disagreed with a lot of the teachings, although, the model
did have some correspondance with the Microcosmic Orbit of Taoist
literature.

The detractors to the Bentov model suggest that the effects
of Kundalini as experienced in the body could not necessarily be totally
accounted for by electrical stimulation. Some of the detractors include
Donald DeGracia in "http://www.lava.net/~goodin/misc/acidsurv.txt" who
does an analysis of the effects of drugs on people and the correspondance
of the result effects to Kundalini experiences. Bonnie Greenwell in
"Energies of Transformation" also disagrees as I explain in a moment.
A final detractor was Mary Scott as described by Greenwell, who saw
the model as being to distinct from what is described in Tantra.

Greenwell briefly covers the Bentov model but not to the degree as
Gerber in "Vibrational Medicine". Greenwell also looks at the possibility
that in addition to electrical stimulation, meditative practices as
well as the Kundalini energy could cause the production of natural
chemicals in the brain such as endorphines and dopamine. These chemicals
as well as a few others mentioned are known to have the effects of causing
effects on the human body similar to Kundalini. One interesting comment
made is that it had been observed that the level of some of the chemicals
were seen to increase in the brain and decrease in the spine. Speculation
was that the Kundalini energy resulted in the transferance of the chemical
from the spine to the brain. In the end Greenwell sees neither as an
adequate explaination for the effects seen in the raising of the Kundalini,
seeing Bentov's model as being more a description of what happens due
to the movement of Prana rather than Kundalini.

In the end though, what is being experienced can only be the result of
some sort of stimulation of the human body. Many of the effects can be
traced back as being caused by various stimulation of the brain. Although
Greenwell dismisses both, I would suggest that the Bentov model is
still relevant, as one can not separate totally Prana from Kundalini
as the energies are most likely related and interact with each other
with one triggering the other.

This can be concluded from it being possible to be experiencing the
Kundalini energy while not in a meditative state, yet still experience
the symptoms of micromotion in the body as described by Bentov. This
can manifest in the form of the pounding pressure against the skull
as well as the ability to sense the cyclic vibration in the flow of
the blood.

I would though add to the Bentov model though there being some aspect
of generation of natural chemicals within the brain to cause stimulation
was well as electrical energy. I wouldn't necessarily view the actual
process totally correct, but the concept of resonance within the physical
and subsequently the electrical systems of the body should not be ignored.
To ignore any ideas in relation to Kundalini at this stage would simply
be putting blinkers on. There is unlikely to be a simple explaination
with the result most being from many complex interactions within the
physical body as well as the subtle body.

--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)


[3] From: freedom1ATNOSPAMjuno.com
Subject: Kundalini, sex, etc.

Dear friends:

As a lurker here, I have been fascinated by all of the discussions taking
place here -- and I mean *all* of them.

I have not experienced a kundalini awakening, but am hoping that one day
I will.  Therefore, I want to know how such an experience affects
*every* aspect of one's life.  If kundalini makes you see God, dance
with angels, wrestle with demons, attract money, have better orgasms, or
whatever, then it seems to me that it is appropriate to talk about it
here.

Some of the reactions here remind me of an experience a friend of mine
had who teaches college-level anatomy.  During the course of her
lectures one semester, she came to the part about sexual anatomy.  At
that point one of her students (who was studying to be a nurse!) stood
up in class and protested that sex was something that should only be
discussed between a husband and wife.  If there is any place where it
seems sex is appropriate to discuss, it's in an anatomy class. 
Similarly, *if* the k energy affects sex, or *if* sex affects the k
energy, then I would like to hear about it -- along with all the other
phenomena surrounding that energy.

Again, I haven't experienced the k awakening, so I can't absolutely judge
whether every post here is "on topic."  But if those who have had the
awakening feel compelled to report certain experiences here, then I will
accept them as relevant and read them them with interest.

Thanks,

Stephen


[4] From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: experiencing g.l.o.r.i.a.

Gloria says:

>I've been sitting this one out, it isn't the subject of sex that is the
>problem it's that it has lowered the frequency of the communication that is
>all.

  In the eye of the beholder, no?  What vibration do you bring to your
reading and 'listening?"

 In truth, the kundalini experience includes the lower three chakras,
>however, those who get caught up and remain in those chakras can have a
>difficult time detaching from the overwhelming desire to continue the
>experience.

  Speaking of 'in the eye of the beholder,' I experience your posts to have
a condescending tone.

 I noticed that a couple people believe that the experience of
>sexual energies with kundalini is totally the high point of the kundalini
>awakening experience.

  What I noticed were people recognizing the God/Godesss in all that they
do including sensual realities.

 I also saw that someone reacted to the constant use of
>the orgasim word when dealing with meditation etc. Nothing is right or wrong,
>it just is, however, when people become hooked into a thought form and begin
>to relate to all of the experience through the thought form, it gets off of
>the track very easy.

  And the track is...   Seems like you're saying a number of things here,
Gloria.

This has been a good discussion, and obviously many
>people needed to express their experience and share since it is not always an
>easy subject to discuss. That's great, aren't we glad that we can all move
>through something together.

  Yes, *we* are.  This sounds like a moderator who is trying to gracefully
get the unruly participants to drop it and move on, laced with a few subtle
judgements about the vibrations and getting hooked.

 Love is important here, let's all have compassion
>for each others views, and go back into the center now that the swing has
>moved to both extremes, it can now neutralize very easily. Is this out of
>line as a suggestion?

  Well, I certainly agree with gloria on the love part.  I don't think
suggestions are ever out of line.  I am responsible for the way I
experience her language.  My response to Gloria's language and what I see
as subtle 'torquing' is up to me.  My point in making this post is to put a
little 'spanner' out here and to make it clear there are *lots* of tracks
and I will experience the vibrations of any one of the tracks according to
my state of consciousness, as will Gloria.

  IMO extremes were not reached.  Not even close.  But maybe we reached
Gloria's outer limits and that felt uncomfortable [read lower vibrations]
and she needs to swing back to her center?   (just getting rid of the royal
"we")  *And* if the topic is making too many people antsy, maybe it *does*
need to be put aside for awhile out of compassion and sensitivity to the
current limits that other people are working with.  I'm certainly not
interested in making people feel uncomfortable just to make a point.

  This post contains a bit of accumulated energy.  Each time I read
Gloria's posts I experience a little presumptive linguistic energy and I
needed to express it.  I'm not sure I'm doing it as neutrally as I could,
but I trust she will understand my interest in balancing the experience.
The only way my communication and understandign improves is if  I take the
time (and risk) to check out/express what I'm experiencing.

  While this could have been done privately I think Gloria and her
contributions to the list are important.  I think she, obviously, has a lot
to offer.  I want to learn from her *experience* more than her analysis of
*other* people's experiences.  This part of the universal feedback system
at work.

  I believe the Net is hard for some people to adjust to.  There really are
few if any rules out here in the CyberWest.  We [royally or not] are *al*l
more equal here than we've probably ever been.  No allowances are made for
age, gender (you never really know what gender your speaking to), race,
etc.  Anyone can question or ask for clarification.  These little
characters on the screen are not 'proof' of anything, are they?  Like many
of you I am sensitive to 'vibrations' and the screen/characters do carry
them right off the screen.  But vibrations are also a product of my own
internal 'template' that interprets vibrations.  I've worked around people
who were quite out of it and they got vibrations too .

  If a person is used to a certain role in the 'real' world and then tries
to maintain that role here in c-space it doesn't always work.  This can be
seen as a threatening and uncomfortable thing **or** as a golden
opportunity to learn something new and put the old role aside for a bit.




in the danger zone,


kent




      Private Communications        GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.443.8855



[5] From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: A View - Through My Eyes

        Once many years ago, my daughter (now 19) returned home from 
elementary school in tears.  Her tiny world was being torn apart.  I knew 
in my heart that "This too shall pass" and that it wasn't anything of 
major concern, but on the outside, I was very concerned and attentive to 
what she had to say.  You see, while inwardly I knew this situation would 
fade into a memory, it was a very big concern in her bright, teary eyes 
and was not to be taken lightly.
        She began telling me that her friends had divided into two 
factions.  I don't remember the issue which caused this division, only 
that a division was the result.  They put an ultimatum to her, CHOOSE A 
SIDE.  This was her dilemma.  She explained to me that she had friends in 
both groups and was torn as to which side to choose.  I asked her some 
questions concerning the issue.  If you select side (A), will someone on 
side (B) be hurt?  "Yes" was her reply.  If you select side (B), will 
someone on side (A) be hurt?  Once again, her reply was "Yes."  I asked 
her another question.  "If your feelings are hurt or you become angry 
over something someone did or did not do, which heals faster?"  She 
thought on this a few moments and said, "The anger goes away faster."  I 
then asked her if she wanted to risk hurting someone by making a choice.  
She answered with a firm NO.  
        She was still no closer to making a decision.  I asked her to 
consider not choosing a side at all.  She was leaning a bit towards one 
faction in this issue already.  I suggested that she maintain a neutral 
stand and not choose a side at all.  I suggested that in taking this type 
of stand, people might be angry for a short while, but they wouldn't have 
to endure the hurt of 'feeling rejected'.  Her tiny face lit up through 
the tears as she had not thought of this option.
        The following day I sent her off to school with an embrace, and a 
kiss.  I told her I knew she'd do the right thing.  The day passed and 
she returned home from school.  She bounced in as if nothing in the world 
had been going on.  She was so bubbly and excited.  I was very curious 
and soon had the complete story.  She went to school and as expected, was 
approached by her friends and asked what side she chose.  She told them 
none.  They were shocked!  After all, she had to make a choice and her 
personal choice was not in their list of options!  They were angry as we 
both suspected they might be.  She explained her position to them.  "If I 
choose this side, my friends in that side might be hurt.  If I choose 
that side, then you might  be hurt.  I won't choose any side and will 
still be friends with everyone who wants to be my friend."  
        The other kids were caught totally off guard.  It was the act of 
not allowing herself to be caught up in the struggle which allowed the 
entire situation to diffuse.  Before lunch, everyone was friends once 
again and the problem faded into a memory.  My daughter however, learned 
a very important lesson in life.  
 
Limitation:
        The person who is limited in heart and thought is inclined to 
love that which is limited in life, and the weak-sighted cannot see more 
than one cubit ahead upon the path he treads, nor more than one cubit of 
the wall upon which he rests his shoulder. -- Khalil Gibran
 
What does this have to do with Kundalini?  I'll let you be the judge.
 
Blessed Be
 
Debee


[6] From: Spiritual Emergence Network 
Subject: SEN

I'm responding to a post by Royale in which she said,
>On another subject, I saw that you had SEN on your >list of contributors.  I
>must say that I have had some unpleasant >experiences with them and warn of
>their main interest being business.  I worked at >their office and all they
>do is refer people who call to their list of >so-called "experts" about K.
>They do very little screening and i interviewed 2 >of the psychologists on
>the list and found them to know little to nothing >about K. Most of the
>referal list consisted of psychologists .Just a >word to the wise.
My response to her was:
Dear Royale,

I'm wondering how recent your experience with SEN is? I've been director
here for about 1 1/2 years now and I must say my experience of the place is
different than yours. You're right we do not screen the people currently on
our provider list (although we are working on a telephone counseling
service that will initially at least be staffed by licensed people who will
be screened for their knowledge of the different SE phenomena.) Not all our
providers have knowledge of all the forms of spiritual awakening. Most of
our referral list are counselors of one stripe or another, our list is open
to all however and we do have a variety of healers both licensed and
unlicensed on our referral list...
We have a monthly volunteer meeting-why don't you join us for one and see
if we're still like you remember us. All the volunteers that we have now
are caring dedicated folks. I do hope you'll take the time to do a little
bit more investigating of us, both in fairness to our volunteers and to
those people who benefit from our service.

If anyone has any questions or any previous experience of SEN similar to
Royale's my offer stands to you as well. I'm sorry if Royale had a negative
experience with some folks at SEN.  I hope that we can all get to a place
someday where generalization from the particular is not such an automatic
event.
Craig Turek


[7] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: A View - Through My Eyes

Hi: Debee 

I always admire you style and you really take time out to think.  Thanks for
the story.  You did not talk about sex and you did not attack anyone, but for
people that can see your little has really of lot of meaning.  I'll try to
follow your example.



Love,
Von 


[8] From: ravenATNOSPAMsedona.net (katie rose)
Subject: subscribing to list and more

i recently lost many files and no longer have the info for
subscribing/unsubscribing to kundalini-l.  could someone please be kind
enough to send me that info? thanks.



here is an email message i received today: 

If by leaving a small pleasure one sees a great pleasure, let a wise
   man leave the small pleasure, and look to the great.
   
                The Dhammapada (c. B.C. 300)


i believe this has myriad applications, on numerous levels. 

katie rose


**********
                                    katie rose
                                 ravenATNOSPAMsedona.net

"Love is the reflection of God's unity in the world of duality.  It
constitutes the entire significance of creation."   (Meher Baba)


[9] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Gopi Krishna Says...

How true, the nerves are indeed changed, as is everything in the path. The
breath, movement, the energies of the ida, pingala, and the central column
the sushumma change life immediately. Gloria


[10] From: georgevATNOSPAMeor.com (georgev)
Subject: what is better a crime or thinking of it? Is about sex...

(Note: before you judge my english yo must know that art was my best
subject.)

I know that I have had thoughts about petafile but they are only
thoughts. If I was to follow an action I create many other actions. I
could follow mindlessly a harm someone because of my lusts or not.

Sex is an important issual and I feel that it needs exposer just like
any other inportant subject.
Many of the problems about sex are easyly salved with insight as much
of my kundalini awakening is intuitive insight. 

I feel that sex must become a more accepted subject so that people can
learn right sex or right sexual conduct. This doesn't mean anything to
do if your gay or not. It has to do with conscious  and responsiblety
in your cause in affect or otherwise karma.

If sexual education is more helpful then people have more sexual
enlightenment. If people push away knowlege they live in confusan.

When I awaken my kundalini the main opening has always been through a
sexual means. I work it out throught my meditations with a observing
state of mind that gets used to all forms of sex insted of fearing them.

The best safe sex is to have a creative imagination and develop a way
to have the safest sex. There are so many things that people have
without thinking "is this going to be fun or suck really bad?"

I am so intrested in sex education that I plan to create a erotica a
web magazine to help promote sex, sex education , and personal
spirituallism from many different points of view.

george


[11] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: experiencing g.l.o.r.i.a.

Kent,
Thanks for your conversation. I'm not sure what came through all of it, but I
feel we may have broken the pattern some. God Bless Gloria


[12] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: A View - Through My Eyes

Debee, 
Very good advise you shared with your daughter, she will remember that one
forever, as possibly will her friends. Isn't it simple when we can be
detached enough to break through the illusion which is made up of emotions,
feelings, fear, and thoughts, thoughts thoughts.  Love ya, Gloria


[13] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: SEN

Craign,
What is SEN? This one I have not heard, thanks. Gloria


[14] From: Iver Juster 
Subject: re: Important topics of discussion

It is not my intention to cause a fight but to make peace.

And it is also my intention to make this forum safe for all to speak their
hearts and minds without fear of attack. 


David, 

It is my understanding that this list is about kundalini and all topics that
relate to it. 

That includes spiritual unfoldment and everything else that others want to
talk about too that is related to kundalini. 


Martin: 

I notice that several people here use the words vile dirty degrading lust
etc. a whole lot. Others are much more prone to talk about sacredness,
connecteness, and the divine.

If what we think is what we become, then it is a good sign to see people
writing in so heavily focused on the negative?

.............................................................

If to the pure all things are pure, then to the pure, even the base will be
pure.
.............................................................

Please, can't we all have our own opinions? Why are you so threatened? Does
everyone have to think the way you do? Have some love and tolenance for
other points of view and you will be more likely to be listened to yourself.

No one has a monopoly on the truth these days.  There are 17 million web
pages out there, (& probably 2 million different religions and idealogies).
People decide for themselves as individuals what to think. 



Best to all, Patti