Issue 39
 [1]: From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Niles

Niles.   Im sorry that you are leaving cause you had valuable stuff to say.
I too have been going thru k. for along time and need people like you to be
here.  But, if thats your decision, good luck to you and check in now and
then.  Love to you.  Royale

At 06:49 PM 7/4/96 +0000, Niles Rodrick wrote:
>> Hey Kiddies,
>>      If this post comes across screwed up it=B9s because I=B9m trying to
online cost by writing in my word processor and pasting. It hasn=B9t worked
far, but, what the hell, more time for the gypper.
>>      I have been hesitant in replying because I kept getting the feeling
that I was missing something, and I couldn=B9t quite put my finger on it
now. I have been thinking in the concept of =8Cgroup=B9, when, in reality,
is a chat line. Nevertheless, I must clarify my position in this matter.
>>      I like to have all the cards on the table, ...ALL the cards. If I
get the slightest inkling that this is not the case, then it=B9s time to
the table over and find out what=B9s wrong. Some of you said that I should
have done it privately. I must disagree. The reason groups form is so they
can get together to share in a common interest.  A united effort comes into
play, which creates a bond between those involved, and the glue that binds
them together (within the framework of the group) is =8C one for all and all
for one=B9.
>>       If a group is to survive, the members must be totally open, honest,
and above board with each other (in the context of the group), and everyone
in the group must know what is going on within the group. What I brought up
effects the group, and therefore demands that the entire group be involved
in rectifying the situation.
>>      I say Gloria, that if you were one of the group, you wouldn=B9t
constantly be telling people to write directly to you, rather than the
group. The fact that you suggest this, gives your position away. You are
purposely separating the members of the group,...from the group, ...for your
own interest...
>>      As to the mattress pad,...I still don=B9t see any info on the board.
You have bought a mattress pad, therefore you have names, addresses, phone
numbers, prices ,etc., yet you refuse to make that info available. Why? It
can=B9t be because it doesn=B9t pertain to Kundalini, because you yourself=
that you had a Kundalini experience while using it. So what is the problem=
>>      You have created what I see, and that is a person outside the group,
fishing for business. Which is fine. Just do it above the table, for all to
see. As for your making money, by all means make money. If you were an agent
for Nikken, and I was interested in a pad, YOU would be the one I would want
to deal with. Why? Because we are bonded thru our mutual involvement. To me,
being a member of a group is the same as being married. (again, I speak in
the context of the group) and the rules of marriage apply. And in this
particular case, it even includes sex!
>>      I have no desire to sit at a table for discussion, knowing that
other things are going on under the table as well. As far as I=B9m
if it can=B9t be put on the table, then it doesn=B9t even belong in the
>>      But I do apologize to you Gloria, and to everyone else that I
offended, because, as I said earlier, this is not a group, but rather a chat
line, open to all. And that=B9s where I got my wires crossed. (It=B9s not my
fault, ...the moon made me do it!)
>>      Although I will no longer be participating, I am going to keep this
link open, because I find solace in some of the conversations that cross the
>>      On closing I want all to know that the short time spent with you has
been extremely beneficial to me. I have been working with Kundalini for
thirty-seven years....alone. Tying into you has given me confirmation of
some of my findings, and the reassurance that I am not going ga ga. Books
are fine, but they don=B9t help much when one is in the throws of change. I
hope that it has been the same for you.
>>      Love, hugs, and kisses to all, and that includes you, Gloria,


 [2]: From: (Spark)
Subject: Trees, roots, leafs

El said:

> To me, your responses model elements of a sound
>>foundation: personal integrity and self-authenticity, the willingness to
>>question *everything*, always listening to one's heart, and realizing that
>>humor is as valuable as compassion and faith!

  Thank you for letting me know you understood what I was saying. In my
present reality it is enormously satisfying to have anyone understand me
.   Now you've done it... encouraging my weird expressions.

  A dear friend once told me that at certain points in unfoldment I'd go
through periods where it would be virtually impossible to be understood.  I
laughed... what a fool I was!

  I woke up this morning feeling quite heavy. When I looked at the mailing
list I felt even heavier.  I experienced the messages as taking place
within the theatre of my conciousness.  The actors were answering,
explaining, and instructing.  The linearity of 'explanations' and 'answers'
felt 'toxic' to me. (I realize the dialectic linear
'your-experience-means/is-this' dynamic is exactly what some people want
and 'need')

  Something about the imperative manner in which some 'questions' get
answered, I suppose.  As if anyone really has a definitive answer for
*anyone* else.  As if any answer that anyone receives from another human
incarnate 'terminal' point could ever equal that which is sitting right
there in the lotusheart of our every/ultra day experiences.  The jewel no
one else can quite see but ourSelf.

  Maybe it is something learned from Dear Abbey and talk-radio?

  Is Kundalini a religion... complete with a set of written and unwritten
scriptures?  I can just see mile long threads 'answering' and 'explaining'
what Kundalini *really* is to me...

cleaning my windshield,



  Saw Phenomenon yesterday... 'arf-arf.'  Toy Story was much better .  A
few good scenes along with charming acting pasted together. I did like his
"partnership" lines *and* the subtle yet profound use of trees as 'markers'
of non-linear (sorry it's just my phrase of choice these days) shifts of
consciousness.  Heavy-handed, manipulative music tacked on for commercial
soundtrack sales.

P.S.S.   Funny thing about fireworks... they appear to be pleasing visual
and aural manifestations of the experience we talk about so much within
this list .

  Like the trees we're all in this together.

  Within the overlapping paradoxes is a truth.

      Private Communications        GateZone Communications
   Kent Livingston         512.443.8855

 [3]: From: Iver Juster 
Subject: Clarification

>Niles, I for one would really miss you if you left. Are you open to
>Why should you have to deny yourself access to the group just because
someone else is not of your standard?
>We each of us decides what this is, a chat-line, a group, etc. There is no
objective truth.
>Maybe it fluctuates!
>However, groups are not the same as marriages. In marriage there is only
one person, or a few. In a group, you can often get a macrocosm of society.
Sometimes what others do fulfills our desires for that type of energy and
frees us up to do other things. For example, in a group, if Uncle Alex is
always grumpy, others can huddle around, complaining about him, and not have
to act out this energy themselves.
>About Gloria, hey, she may not be of my orientation either, and stil it has
been a blessing for me, becuase I get exposure to other people and their
trips. Then I don't have to explore that avenue myself. And I have also been
able to appreciate that, while her style is very different from mine, I feel
she does have a lot of loving attention on others, independent of any
financial motives.
>Please reconsider. I would really miss you. ANd I for one am glad that you
speak honestly from your heart.
>Love, Patti

 [4]: From:
Subject: Re: Clarification

Sorry again, Richard, it was meant as the biggest compliment to you. As I 
told before, sometimes I lose my way in the English grammar. I meant that you 
don't edit the postings, that you put them all up there for everyone to see.
I guess I skipped over a part of the sentence I meant to express. :-)

Love to all. 

>Dear Snowbird,
>Now for various reasons I'M feeling sensitive.  Help me here.  Are you
>complimenting me or insulting me?  I can't tell.  ;
>Loved your comments.  Am so glad you're with us.
>> I want to hear from everyone on all kinds of subjects pertaining to the K
>> the path that lead to it, not just an edited version of what people have
>> say and I think that's what Richard has done to this day.
>> The key is love.
>> And all of you on the list have my love.
>I am done with great things and big plans, great institutions 
>and big success.  I am for those tiny, invisible, loving, human 
>forces that work from individual to individual, creeping through 
>the crannies of the world like so many rootlets, or like the capillary 
>oozing of water, which, if given time, will rend the hardest 
>monuments of pride.
>-William James

 [5]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: Re: Kundalini List

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Friday, 05-Jul-96 11:35 AM

From: DOREEN                   \ Internet:    (

Subject: Re: Kundalini List

My name is Doreen Traub.  I only became aware of kundalini as such 
this year although I have been interested in spirituality for quite 
awhile.  There have been changes as regards the fact that I now 
meditate which before I did not.  The issue that keeps on coming up 
is one of honesty and trying to deal with the dishonesty of others.  
I am and have been attracted to helping the physical disabled.  What 
I would like to do is how to unravel your kundalini energy in a 
safe way and  I would like to hear from others as regards this.

------- FORWARD, End of original message -------

Time engraves our faces with all the tears we have not shed.
-Natalie Clifford Barney

 [6]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Important Administrative Note

Note:  This is not directed to the vast majority of you.   But it's

EVERYONE please (re) read these lines from Kent:

>   I woke up this morning feeling quite heavy....The actors were answering,
> explaining, and instructing.  The linearity of 'explanations' and
> felt 'toxic' to me....Something about the imperative manner in which some
> 'questions' get answered, I suppose. 

>   Is Kundalini a religion... complete with a set of written and unwritten
> scriptures?  I can just see mile long threads 'answering' and 'explaining'
> what Kundalini *really* is to me...

Dear Kento and list members,

This is not the first time this has come up - but perhaps the first time
this sentiment has been posted to the list.  I have recieved private emails
concerning this.

There is no ONE DOCTRINE concerning kundalini.  That's (to me) like saying
that there is one language for all of humanity.  Not correct.  This notion
of possessing absolute truth is obnoxious and offensive.  And, it closes
doors.  Not many free individuals appreciate being preached to.

Let me repeat what has been stated earlier on the list.  It is part of our
charter:  Placing a post does not mean that a person is necessarily looking
for an explanation!  Do not answer personal feelings and experiences with
instructions!!!  This is a betrayal of trust in a way, and can be very
hurtful - whether or not that is your intention!  Kent is right:  it is

Again:  Some people on this kundalini list are afraid to post because they
feel that their observations will be dissected.  Read this sentence again. 
Is this what you want?  Those who are guilty know who you are.    

Let's all try PLEASE to be sensitive.  It's not necessary to explain or
comment at all times. This is a plea, not a threat!  But I'm tired of
repeating myself on this point.  If anyone has any comments one way or the
other, please send them to me.  


Time engraves our faces with all the tears we have not shed.
-Natalie Clifford Barney

 [7]: From: Iver Juster 
Subject: Assorted comments

Hi everyone. Lots of scattered thoughts. Please bear with me if right now I
don't have names. We did a major restoration to our hard drive and lost some

To the lady who wants to unravel kundalini: 
Roaslyn Bruyere writes a book on Chakras, Auras, and the Healing Energy of
the Body. The title is Wheels of Light. It discusses the kundalini in great
depth. This is significant because the author is consider one of the world's
best hands-on healers, if not the best. 

She discusses how to use the k for healing others, and one's self.  She
believes that everyone has it and can unlock it and utilize it. She has many
exercises in the book. I am just reading it now myself and am amazed at its
profundity and symbiosis with my already existing experience of the k.
Highly recommended!!! Also a more physiological orientation, discussion
energy, electromagnetism (she was an engineer who spent 8 years at UCLA on
electromagnetic energy fields in the human body.) Her discussion of the
chakras is fascinating.  She also talks alot about the k's mind body
connections, the k and evolution, healing etc.

To Gloria,

I hoped I didn't offend you when I sent the letter yo Niles with the mention
of you in it to the list. I think that you have a very particular focus
about k, but then again, so do I and so does everyone. I love how giving you
have been. I get a little frustrated in that you are always giving advice.
This is fine, and I would like to also know other sides of you, the side
that questions, that suffers even, that is human, etc. I guess I react a
little to preachy behavior. Again, you have a heart of gold, I am certain,
and I am certain many lives are better for your input.

To list: 

This list is a blessing for me. In addition to just getting all the k, I
feel blessed to see and hear from others with different as well as similar
points of view. All expand my awareness of k. I thank all of you and want
you to know this list is a special part of my life. I will even go so far as
to say that I feel it is changing me, opening my heart more and more to the
human experience.

How about it? A thread on "My k experiences?" Could it be like a festival,
which included all the viewpoints, for *celebration*? Doesn't have to be
long, but: Talk about your favorite books, teachers, attitudes, experinces,
what works, etc. This would be lots of fun, and would emphasize the
collective (and not competitive) power of our wisdom. It would be fun to
honor all of us! And the k energy we could combine, just think of it! 

Anyhow, just an idea, even if nothing else happens...  :->

Thanks, as always, Patti

 [8]: From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Words From Yogananda

                                            I GO WITHIN

   I was a prisoner carrying a heavy load of bones and flesh, but I have
   broken the chains of muscle-bound body by the power of relaxation.
   I am free. Now I shall try to go within.
      Bewitching scenic Beauties, stop your dance before my eyes !
   Lure not my attention away.
      Enchanting melodies, keep not my mind enthralled in the revels
   of earthly songs !
      Haunting sirens of sweet sensations, paralyze not my sacred intuitions
   by your enticing touch ! Let my meditation race for the sweet bower of
   eternal divine love.
      Luring aroma of lilacs, jasmine, and roses, 
   stop not my homeward - marching mind !
      These tempting enchantresses of the senses are now gone.
   The cords of flesh are broken.
   The grip of the senses is loosened.
   I exhale and stop the storm of breath; the ripples of thought melt away.
      I am sitting on the altar of my throbbing heart.
   I watch the roaring, shouting torrent of life-force moving thru the heart
   into the body.
   I turn backward to the spine.
   The beat and roar of the heart are gone.
   Like a sacred hidden river my life-force flows in the gorge of the spine.
   I enter a dim corridor thru the door of the spiritual eye, and speed on
   until at last the river of my life flows into the ocean of life and loses
   itself in bliss.

   Paramahansa Yogananda

 [9]: From:
Subject: Heaviness


The "heaviness" you felt from the mail list may not have been entirely from
"toxic" (I would call it "obnoxious") dogma-blustering.  I have been
following this list since its inception a month ago and discovered that
whenever anyone posts something on the list that is a direct response to
something I've said -- especially if there is an emotional charge to their
response -- I feel an incredible tenfold increase in the gravitational field
around my body before I have even checked for email!  This happens even when
the responses are very positive.

My explanation for the heaviness is an electromagnetic overload that builds
up when I am thrown psychic cords by people radiating mega-energy (i.e., if
their Kundalini is active).  More than one person focusing on me with this
much energy really hits hard.  At first I thought I was coming down with
sudden chronic fatigue!

For this reason, I've learned to keep my posts to this group to a minimum
(thus avoiding drawing attention and excess energies to myself).  Luckily, I
am able to disengage from the cords/energies through aura cleansing.  I began
doing spontaneous aura cleansing (on myself, no clientele) about six years
ago when my Kundalini was at a crescendo.  I never received any training for
this, but it sure helps sometimes to be able to do it.

I think that we are sitting on a unbelievably potent group-energetic force
that eventually will be tapped for distant healings and so forth.  (I
understand that other Internet groups already do this kind of work, but how
much more intense would it be if all the participants had active Kundalini?)
 The possibilities are staggering.


[10]: From: Andy 
Subject: RE: Assorted comments

Dear Patti,
	I found this mailing list a week ago and have been lurking waiting to 
jump in. Well, here goes.

1)	 Introduction:
	I am a 43 year old man from England who has been vaguely interested in
spiritual matters since early twenties, becoming much more aware of "strange
stuff" over the past couple of years.

2)	I have been meditating on and off for twenty years since learning self
hypnosis, during a good session I get a "vision" like a globe in front of me
which can alternate between convex and concave, turn a bright white or be
sparkly on the surface a bit like the sun, sometimes I get pulled towards it.

At other times I also feel vibrations in my hands and feet and or a frission
down my back.
When this first happened I  got quite scared hence the on off nature of my

3)	Two years ago I pulled my back at work and eventually visited a masseuse
for treatment, after 3 sessions I found I was entering a trance like state with
the same things happening as during meditation.	 
4)	Coincidences
I)	These happen all the time so much so I have forgotten most.
Here are a couple
I recently changed jobs (I repair computers)., on a visit to a new customer
with my colleague when we introduced ourselves to the head of the IT department
it turned out the people from the previous company he dealt with had the same
 ii)	I read a book on visualization (Creative Visualization) a week later I
got stuck in a traffic jam and got very worked up, then I closed my eyes (the
traffic had not moved for twenty minutes) imagined I was on a motorway doing 70
When I surfaced and opened my eyes after two minutes, the traffic cleared as if
by magic, because of the hold up the road ahead was very clear, I got to work in
record time.

Best to all,


>How about it? A thread on "My k experiences?" Could it be like a festival,
which included all the viewpoints, for *celebration*? Doesn't have to be
long, but: Talk about your favorite books, teachers, attitudes, experiences,
what works, etc. This would be lots of fun, and would emphasize the
collective (and not competitive) power of our wisdom. It would be fun to
honor all of us! And the k energy we could combine, just think of it! >