[1]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: criticism of Gloria

Dear Niles,

>      I for one, don't appreciate your 'constantly' telling people to write

> directly to you, instead of the group. 

I did ask Gloria to try to keep "private posts" off line.  This could be the
reason for this.

>      It would also be nice if you would just put out the info on the
mattress,
> instead of telling us to write you privately for it. 

Again, Gloria is trying to make the list better by doing this.  (I do
appreciate your efforts, Gloria!)

> In other words, if you are
> acting as an agent for a maufacturer, come out and say so. At least 
> then we'll know why it has to be done privately. I also noticed that, 
> although your spelling is quite good, you spelled 'Nikken' wrong and 
> mentioned that they were out of Japan, when in truth, there out of 
> Germany. It's Almost as if your trying to make sure noone finds them, 
> unless it's thru you. Please correct me if I am wrong?

This is a good point, although I have to say that I was at a co-op "spring
fair" last month at which these magnetics were demonstrated.  The
demonstrators kind of struck me as a bit credulous, and hence raised my
skepticism immediately.  But, they may work.  Who knows?  In any case, all
of the items were clearly marked "Made in Japan".  Maybe the German items
are from a different company than the ones Gloria is familiar with.

> 
>    I bring this up because I feel that your just using the group for your
own 
> monetary gain, and it's grating against my nerves. If  the group feels 
> that I am out of place bringing this up, please advise me of same, and 
> I will apologize, and if neccessary, bow out.
> 
Gloria and I don't agree on every point, but I have to come to her defense
here.  I really believe that she wants only to help and teach all of us for
our own well being.  Unless my intuition is way off, I don't think that
she's involved in any of this simply for material gain.  

That's my two cents, if anyone is interested.

Richard



--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Most of us are as eager to be changed as we were to be born, 
and go through our changes in a similar state of shock.
-James Baldwin


 [2]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: can't get on list server/experience

The following was sent to me, but the address is not valid.  Hopefully Anne
is reading this and/or will be able to subscribe soon

Richard

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Saturday, 29-Jun-96 06:25 PM

From: Anne Wright              \ Internet:    (wrigaATNOSPAMsisna.com)
com)

Subject: can't get on list server

I have been unable to subscribe to the digest. I wanted to post the 
following message:  I experienced a Kundalini awakening about two 
months ago. Someday I will be able to put all the horrors and joys of 
the experience together on paper, but right now I am too busy trying 
to adjust to a life where everything is changed. Last evening, I got 
the message that I need to put my shields back up. I see and feel 
everything, and my heart is pounding. The adrenaline seems to rush in. 
I have to breath deeply to expel the fears and anxiety. How can I let 
go of these awful coping skills from the past? Yes I do meditate, and 
incredibly good things are appearing in my life right now, and I want 
to be able to enjoy them.
Thanks. Please let me know what is happening


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------


--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Most of us are as eager to be changed as we were to be born, 
and go through our changes in a similar state of shock.
-James Baldwin


 [3]: From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: moon cycle

> The moon will be full on June 30 and, as usual, the energies I feel all
the 
> time at the crown and the brow chakras and at both feet are exacerbated by

> this event and by the new moon. Anyone else out there has noticed some
change 
> during the moon cycle? I have accepted fully those symptoms, but my friend

> who's going through the process hasn't totally accepted yet and she feels 
> quite nervous by this increase in energy. 

When things began in earnest, I was always aware of the full moon by changes
in content and intensity of dream cycles.  In meditation, lunar images would
and still do appear with resultant physical symptoms.  

Things have been so incredibly busy with me over the last few weeks that I
wasn't really paying any attention to the lunar cycle (which is unusual for
me).  Last night,  (the 30th), I met an old friend whom I haven't seen in
about 8 years.  We had a wonderful, intense evening of conversation and
rememberances.  When I returned, there were two incenidary messages waiting
- one from my ex-wife and one from her best friend - something which hasn't
happened in a long, long time.  Then it struck me - of course!  It's the
full moon.

(If you're interested - I did the mature thing and didn't return the call...
)

Richard 
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Most of us are as eager to be changed as we were to be born, 
and go through our changes in a similar state of shock.
-James Baldwin


 [4]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: moon cycle

I
Mark Rivera said:

>Claudia, I hate to say this, but I think your caaaught up by the full >moon.

It is interesting to note that you are also caaaught up in it our you would
not post in the full moon.

Von 


 [5]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Niles' post

>This group, I believe, is full of loving people who don't want ANYONE to 
"bow out"--we want to work out our problems.  EVERYONE has something 
valuable to contribute, no matter how small it seems.  (One man's garbage 
is another man's treasure?}  And vice-versa, everyone has something 
valuable to gain from this list, no matter how small it seems.  So, I 
hope, you will remain on this list.  I hope you work out your problem 
with Gloria.

Love to all, Melissa


HI: Melissa

The above comment says a lot.  I too am very impressed with the people on the
mailing list. Just look at a few other news groups on the Internet. Some how
I by mistake receive hundreds of messages from a new group that I did not
subscribe to.  The remarks are from people who are suppose to be on the path.
Every single message that is posted is not for knowledge, but is sent to put
some one else down.  They criticize the whole would.  It is unbelievable the
type of words they use and I could never post such words in these post.
 These are all from people seeking spiritual things and looking for answers?
 However, we do have a big delete button and we can use it anytime.  Just use
it and forget about the remarks.  Out of every 12 people you will usually
find one rotten apple.  If you are on the mailing list or working in a big
corporation, it's the same thing. This is just life and you can never change
it. The problem is in us to overcome these things  and go on because we know
better.  Those people will always be around.

Von


 [6]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Spirits

Hi: Melissa

   >I've heard of people seeing not only angels, but demons.  Do demons or 
evil spirits really exist?  Or are they just third-eye 
visualizations/manifestations of our own fears/worries/blockages etc.?
If they ARE real, can they hurt you?  How can you deal with them?  Make 
them go away?  Keep them from hurting you? 

   There is only one light.  The demons will disappear when you turn on the
light.
If you walk in the dark and step on a rope you may become very frightened
because you may think you are stepping on a snake, but when you turn on the
light you can clearly see that it's just a rope.  If you think they are real
then they are real to you. I call them Casper the friendly ghost because some
earth bound spirits love to tease you.  If you become afraid then they will
laugh their head off  like Casper the friendly ghost.  They can not hurt you.
 Love, light is the only thing.
Turn on the light and the darkness will disappear.  If you should ever get
teased by the entities just say a few words very strongly like this, "please
get the  H_ _ _   out of here now!"  They will leave really fast and never
come back. It's so easy.

>Why do these visualizations or spirits come to you? 

   They are looking for help just anyone or thing stuck in the earth plane.
 Just give them a prayer and send them on their way.  Tell them it's ok, but
it's time to go on.


>I still do not fully understand what people mean by needing a firm 
foundation before deliberately calling up the K,

   The meaning is you have to purify your body so the force can awaken and go
through all of your charkras smoothly.  If you don't then the energy will
burn and force it's way through because it is awake and you have forced it.
 If the energy forces it's way through then you will  become out of control
with sex for one thing.  (Creative energy).  Next, you will see so many
things happen so fast that you could go crazy.    No help is available when
you really need it.  You must know these things first which is the foundation
plus making you body strong enough to hold the energy. Hope that answers the
questions.

>Thanks to everyone who has answered my posts, and to everyone on the list 
just for being there. 

I agree with that!

Von


 Love to all, 
 
 
 

 [7]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Spirits

(Viviane Brisson)

Your story is very interesting.

Thanks.Von


 [8]: From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Spirits

Regarding the issue of Angels, and otherworldly entities, FATE's July 
issue carries my article on what Edgar Cayce had to say about a number 
of these things.  

Of Angels, Edgar said:  "There are ever, for every soul, those that may 
be termed the guides or guardian angels that stand before the throne of 
grace and mercy."  and "With the bringing into creation of the manifested 
forms, there came that which has been, is, and ever will be, the spirit 
realms and its attributes -- designated as angels and archangels."

Karol Ann


 [9]: From: pettyATNOSPAMjpp-ws.sharpwa.com (John Petty)
Subject: Re: dream

Melissa,

I don't have much to offer on the interpretation of your dream, but wanted
to let you know that I've had at least two dreams since my awakening that
had to do with someone shocking me with what felt like electricity.  I
don't remember ever having any dreams of that nature before.  Neither were
what I would call painful.  One startled me, and the other was mildly
uncomfortable.

Some thoughts about your dream:  A quantity of 4 denotes wholeness in
Jungian psychology.  The dream wants you to get off the conveyor belt.
There was no completion in the dream, so you might have a repeat; maybe
not the same symbols, but a similar situation.

John
				----------

> I wonder if this dream I had during a nap Saturday afternoon has some 
> message for me about Kundalini.  I will give some basic highlights of the 
> dream and would like some possible interpretations of it.  I think it 
> MUST say something about the K--it was the most striking dream I've ever 
> had.
> 
> In the beginning, I saw a black square-shaped UFO with bright blue 
> streaks coming from it.  Turns out it was part of a hollographic air show 
> promotion for Exxon--there were other sights in it I saw as well--it was 
> awesome.  Later, I'm in some building.  Lots of tv screens broadcasting 
> some special show--don't remember what.  Ultimately I get lost.  I see a 
> warehouse section filled with computer paper.  Feels eerie.  I am trying 
> to get back to where I was--I notice a lower section of the building, and 
> figure I can find my way back from there.  But the only way to it is this 
> conveyor belt.  I get on it.  It's electrical and is shocking me, low 
> grade.  The shock is increasing as I ride--then I get to the bottom and 
> the thing stops.  There are four very large circular objects in front of 
> it that somewhat resemble bundles of barbed wire.  I know they are very 
> electrified and landing on one means certain death, yet the only way off 
> the conveyor belt is to jump across them.  They are far too large--I 
> would never make the jump.  So I am stuck on this belt that is continuing 
> to shock me, getting stronger and stronger all the time.  I woke up 
> before I died in the dream, but that is certainly where it was 
> heading--death by slow and painful shock.  It's the worst feeling dream I 
> have ever had, yet one of the most realistic feeling.
> 
> Anyone got a clue?  I have a dream dictionary, but electric shock isn't 
> mentioned.  I guess that's not too common!
> 
> Love to all, Melissa
> 
> 


[10]: From: Royale Jills 
        John Halonen 

Subject: Welcome

Hi and welcome to the list.  Im sure you will enjoy it as i have since i
came on about 2 weeks ago.  It is nice to know that there is a list like
this one where you can talk to people of like mind.    Yours Royale


[11]: From: pettyATNOSPAMjpp-ws.sharpwa.com (John Petty)
Subject: Niles and Gloria

For heaven,s sake Niles,  there is no need for you to "bow out".  Unless
you feel that this list is not meeting your needs.  (I would have probably
confronted Gloria privately before attacking her in public.  It's a lot
easier to clean up the mess.)

I used to belong to a men's group where anyone was free to challenge another.
The whole idea was to eliminate bullshit and establish truth.  Our goal was
personal integrity and growth.  None of which takes place unless personal
honesty is part of the formula.  There is no better friend than one that
will point out bullshit when they see it... or question your motivations.
Instead, we like someone who always supports what we say and never rocks
the boat of our delusion.

This sounds like a good opportunity to learn more about your shadow.  Even
if Gloria were using this list for monetary gain, why would that "grate on
your nerves"?  This "reaction" to Gloria can tell you something about
yourself that you may not be aware of.

Other than that, I want you to stick around.
Just don't sic your watchdog on me.  ;-)

John
				-------------

> Why is it Gloria,
> 
>      that I get the distinct impression that your using this list to promote your 
> products, and build up your own list of clientele?
>      I for one, don't appreciate your 'constantly' telling people to write 
> directly to you, instead of the group. 
>      It would also be nice if you would just put out the info on the mattress, 
> instead of telling us to write you privately for it. In other words, if you are 
> acting as an agent for a maufacturer, come out and say so. At least 
> then we'll know why it has to be done privately. I also noticed that, 
> although your spelling is quite good, you spelled 'Nikken' wrong and 
> mentioned that they were out of Japan, when in truth, there out of 
> Germany. It's Almost as if your trying to make sure noone finds them, 
> unless it's thru you. Please correct me if I am wrong?
> 
>    I bring this up because I feel that your just using the group for your own 
> monetary gain, and it's grating against my nerves. If  the group feels 
> that I am out of place bringing this up, please advise me of same, and 
> I will apologize, and if neccessary, bow out.


[12]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Niles' post

Melissa and all,
I have decided how to handle this, I just want everyone to check out
magnetic's on their own. I can tell you it is worth the research. Those who
are led to do it will, and those who are not, won't. That is pretty simple. I
am certainly not trying to sale the product, it is up to you to make your own
inquiries. 

As far as talking to people as I've done, I will continue that especially if
it seems to work best for the group. I have no preference except letting the
spirit flow. Thanks for the support though. Gloria


[13]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Spirits

Melissa,
I can tell you from experience, there are light forces and dark forces. The
more spiritual focused you become the more the dark forces are interested in
you. This should not be a reason to panic, they are doing their job, and they
will assist you in learning how to create your spiritual bridge into the
higher planes. 

The question should be how do you learn to look them eye to eye without fear,
this is the process of detachment, and drawing close to the Christ frequency.
I can tell you the higher centers take you beyond their frequency, however,
even once you are past this and are meant to be used for God's Will and
Purpose, you are then sent back into that energy to help neutralize it and
bring others through it. So, it isn't your mission to focus on this, but
become aware. I work with the people in my group recognizing the lower forces
that come into their dreams, once you can confront it on that level, you will
confront the forces that manipulate you in your day to day life. 

My book deals a great deal with the illusions of good and evil, it is called
Good and Evil In Our Times. I am not tryint to sale the book, but I would
recommend you checking it out because it helps set the stage for detachment.
Life is positive and negative, therefore, doesn't it stand to reason, on the
spirit side both forces would be at work. Gloria


[14]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Dear Melissa

Jim, 
If you confront the spirit you see while out of the body, and say in the name
of Christ, Krishna, Budda, show yourself. YOu would watch the spirit flip two
or three times in front of your eyes. That is when you know what your dealing
with. This is an important part of self remembering because you are not
caught in the illusion in the invisible realms. When that angel of light
appears, there is no question because there is a pure frequency that carries
it. I have had spirits appear to me as Jesus and Mary who were fakes, as soon
as I tested them, they became the ugly demonic spirit that are there true
nature. This takes time and inner training while you are out of your body and
conscious. It is a part of the kundalini experience though, don't think for a
moment it isn't. Gloria


[15]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Spirits

Snowbird,
I think you were one that had a problem with the way I speak directly, but
there is no other way to speak about this. I saw spirits since I was a child,
almost all the time. I was taught how to read them while out of the body, so
that when they attacked me, which they did, I wasn't afraid. I have had so
many experiences in this regard that I can only tell you it is indeed a part
of the astral plane. But, we are going to the astral plane, that is why I am
talking about the heart center. The heart center takes you beyond the astral,
but you need spiritual help to make that step, which is why you develop that
connection to divine will and the Holy Spirit. Kundalini is another name of
the prana, lifeforce, it is a great power which helps to transcend the lower,
but if you are in the lower, you have to consciously move through it and
beyond. The solar plexus and the third eye opens one to the psychic, that is
also why you need to be heart centered before opening up the eye, and then
you aren't so manipulated by them. Gloria


[16]: From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Niles' post

In reference to whether magnetics have any value in healing, I support 
Gloria's effort to offer this therapy as another who has gotten great 
benefit from magnets.  Until very recently, my magnetic back belt kept me 
mobile when my only other immediate alternatives were surgery or drugs.  
The magnet would have helped heal my back injury had I not reinjured it 
again recently.  I have ordered a magnetic pad, too, for a trial. 

Apparently the magnetics work on the principle that everything has a 
force field that retains its health and integrity.  When that field is 
compromised in some way, dis-ease or dis-order is the result.  Magnets 
help fortify our own magnetic field and bring back order and integrity 
that we may heal ourselves IMO.

Karol Ann 


[17]: From: jtracyATNOSPAMhalcyon.com (Jean Tracy)
Subject: Topics

Hi - I'm attempting to re send this:
I've been following this discussion and would agree that we keep the topics
close to Kundalini and at the same time realize that 'Kundalini experience'
is a very large umbrella.  The process infiltrates all aspects of our
lives and triggers some deep personal work.

some of which might be exploration of alternative medicines... what is GOD, etc.


>>I'm in favor of attempting to keep the conversations as close to kundalini
>>issues as possible, if nothing more than to honor the new subscribers who
>>are experiencing that same excited realization that "they are not alone" as
>>they read other's comments and kundalini experiences (remember how *you*
>>felt when you read your first few kundalini posts here?)
>>
>>If the conversations wander, and we all know they will, that should be
>>fine, too, within reason.  Remember, if two people become hotly involved in
>>a discussion, and it has drifted away from the fundamental concept of this
>>list, it is very easy to move the conversation off the list and continue
>>the thread between the parties involved.
>>


I am having to struggle to keep up with this list as there are two others
I'm involved in.  I've had to completely drop out of one for awhile as I
follow this one....

It would certainly help me to have the SUBJECT reflect the content which
would allow me to follow threads that I am interested in.

Also - it is easier to read the postings if they are in short paragraphs
vs. long passages with no breaks.  I also appreciate the quotes since I
often forget and need help recalling the posting being referred to.  Many
people do this yet I thought It would be helpful to bring it to the
surface.

Jean


[18]: From: Iver Juster 
Subject: re: spirits

A comment and questions:

Comment: References have recently been plentiful to the higher and lower 
chakras, and of course the superiority of certain higher chakras over 
other lower chakras.

Speaking from my own experience, the concepts of 'higher' and 'lower' 
sound like the product of patriarchal thinking. I prefer to view the 
chakras as all-beautifuland all-meaningful, containing gifts and 
information and energy. 

Certainly many of the major religions of the world have been very 
patriarchal!

This patriarchy leads to a separation of man with nature, of god with 
man, of man with women, of humans with animals, etc. It leads to 
assumptions of superiority and even at times the justification of 
violence based on perceptions that the better ones deserve more than the 
less good ones.

I like to look at my own assumptions and ask how I can re-view them so 
as to be more loving and honoring of all that is, including me, and 
including all that is outside of me. Some days I do better than others, 
yet I feel good making the connections and taking down some of the walls 
of judgement I have built when I can see them.

I do feel that it is ecstatic when the k energy goes through the crown 
chakra, but didn't that kundalini energy begin at the base? Can there be 
one without the other? Doesn't each chakra become an integral part of 
the total experience? 

And my questions: Aren't good and evil just subjective judgements that 
we make (as opposed to intrinsic qualities that we perceive) about what 
is existing in the here and now? Do we need to be any certain way in 
order to be perfect?  Don't pessimists live shitty lives and optimists 
live wonderful lives? Don't you think that we create what we fear and 
also what we perceive as possible? Isn't it interesting that the people 
that fear evil spirits are also the ones that seem to be hounded by 
them?

Maybe it is *all* divine! Maybe our self-imposed limitations are what 
keep us from seeing the perfection that exists always.


Love to all, Patti


[19]: From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Niles' post

hi kaarol and welcome to the mailing list. I am fairly new myself and have
enjoyed being part ofthis list. There are some interesting and informational
topics that come and go here.

As to magnetics, yes i belive that in the right mode they can be very
helpfull for relieving pain as i tried it with rare earth solid magnets.
However, there are several different forms of magnetic energy depending on
how it is produced and what kind.  Therefore i would be careful about  which
one i tried.  I read two books on the subject by well known authorities
before i would even try the one i did.   I have known people who got worse
from them also, so i say be careful.

  As to the etiquitte for the list you can read that under your guidlines.
some people on the list have not read them or else have ignored them, but
that happens rarely, from my observations

 Niel--I can agree with you to a certain extent, but you came on a little
strong to my way of thinking.  as they always say, you can always push the
trash button if you dont agree with someone and i do it all the time.  with
love Royale.

end


>
>
>In reference to whether magnetics have any value in healing, I support 
>Gloria's effort to offer this therapy as another who has gotten great 
>benefit from magnets.  Until very recently, my magnetic back belt kept me 
>mobile when my only other immediate alternatives were surgery or drugs.  
>The magnet would have helped heal my back injury had I not reinjured it 
>again recently.  I have ordered a magnetic pad, too, for a trial. 
>
>Apparently the magnetics work on the principle that everything has a 
>force field that retains its health and integrity.  When that field is 
>compromised in some way, dis-ease or dis-order is the result.  Magnets 
>help fortify our own magnetic field and bring back order and integrity 
>that we may heal ourselves IMO.
>
>Karol Ann 
>
>.-
>
>


[20]: From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Niles and Gloria

Niles,

Yes, please stay with us.  We are all human beings here, capable of 
making mistakes.

John,

I really enjoyed your comments about your men's group and the seeking of 
truth and the shadow.  I'm working with those concepts now and the more I 
study it, the more I see how we are trained to avoid being authentic in 
this life.  We must move toward truth in order for us to reconcile the 
k-energy within us.  So with this one phenomenon -- the k-energy -- we 
have both our task (truth) and the means to find it (kundalini).  Wondrous!

Karol Ann